Violent Crime And The Australian Tourist: Some Research On The Peter Hulands Incident

[Phronesis]

I am a middle aged Australian and self funded retiree.

I grew up poor. I was raised by my mum in a housing commission flat in a dreadful area of western Sydney.

Much of my child hood was spent hiding from tattooed, drunk, violent and abusive Australian men. My father was one of them.

It follows that I now have zero tolerance for drunken white trash.

In the decades past I used to spend a lot of time on Bali.

I stopped going there because I grew tired of watching senselessly drunk Australian tourists abusing the locals.

I now live in Phuket. I have been here for nearly three years and live in a lovely quiet part of the island.

I have made some wonderful Thai and expat friends and am very happy with my life.

Why I do not go to Patong

One of my strategies for ensuring a happy and safe life in Phuket is to never go to Patong.

In my first year of explorations of Phuket, I went to Patong a number of times. I have even ridden at night, without incident, on the infamous red tuk tuks.

But in the wake of these earlier explorations I now choose not to go to Patong.

My reason is simple: as stated above I have zero tolerance for drunken white trash.

If I wanted to wear a wife basher singlet and mix with tattooed, drunk, violent and abusive white men I could have stayed in the suburb I grew up in, dropped out of school, stole cars, and drunk myself stupid. Instead I lived in a garden shed for six years, worked three jobs, put myself through through university, started my own business, and retired at 45.

Why is Patong full of white trash?

Put simply, Phuket would appear in the final stages of it's product life cycle. Quality tourists have now moved on to more pristine milieus. As a destination, Patong is therefore left to scrap the bottom of the tourist barrel with the assistance of low cost airlines flying out from Australia (and Russia).

Is violent crime against Australians on the rise in Phuket?

Unfortunately, the answer would appear to be yes. The recent murder of Michelle Smith is a relevant example. A well regarded family lady doing nothing more than walking home from dinner with her friend and college was stabbed to death for her hand bag. My heart felt condolences go out to all of her family and friends.

Do some Australian tourists provoke violent responses from Thais?

I will leave you, kind reader, to answer this question for yourself. But to assist you with your thoughts it should prove useful to first have a look at some of the facts surrounding the recent bashing of Peter Hulands.

A few days ago the Phuket Gazette reported that Peter was bashed by five Tuk Tuk drivers. Apparently one driver made a comment about a hat worn by his girlfriend Kitty Cardway. The article is here:

http://www.phuketgaz...ticle16585.html

To be fair to Peter, Kitty, and the Tuk Tuk drivers of Patong, it seemed prudent to carry out some further research on the incident. Fortunately one need look no further than Kitty's own Facebook page.

On Facebook, Kitty writes:

"Some tuk tuk drivers said something offensive about me as we walked past and Peter went back and said "what did you f'n say?" ... and then he was on the ground and there were 5 of them kicking him. That's all that it took ... in hindsight we should have kept walking but can't change things now "

So it would seem that Peter and Kitty's side of the story can be simply stated as follows:

Offensive behavior toward women is not acceptable. Peter's response to the tuk tuk driver was therefore justified.

Or in Kitty's own words from her Facebook page:

"Unfortunately, it doesn't matter where in the world you are, you will always find this element of people who have no regard for others ... so sad "

Yes Kitty, stamping out offensive behavior toward women is important. Mainstream Thai culture embodies this at its core. Outside of the bar scene, a man touching a Thai women in public is a BIG taboo.

The problem for you and Peter however is that morality is reciprocal arrangement. That is, you respect the locals and in turn they respect you.

Perhaps if there were less Australian men, such as Peter, groping the breasts of Thai women in public, there would be less tuk tuk drivers making offensive comments Australian women.

A photo from your Facebook page says it all:

[giddyup]

It doesn't look to me as if he were "grabbing her breasts" but pushing her away, and have a look at where her hands are, and it could well be a ladyboy. The one behind him certainly is. A photo can be very misleading.

Edited August 5, 2012 by giddyup

[barky]

No youre wrong. It doesn't "say it all" at all.

The photo has nothing to do with the incident.

It's just the normal way the low trash Thais treat westerners.

However, I do believe that familiarity breeds cntempt!!!

The trash Tuk-Tuk drivers did not know he was an Australian did they? So, they were assaulting him merely because he was white AND they know they can do it with impunity...that's all.

[GuestHouse]

The OP could have saved himself a lot of typing by simply stating he blames the victim.

He might consider some more research on this matter. I suggest going out into a public space and making offensive remarks about Thai women he sees walking with their husbands/boyfriends.

[wamberal]

Outside the bar scene, lower class women have few, if any rights in Thailand, especially if they are unfortunate enough to have married a Thai man and then been discarded, or found that she could not be supported, or that she was abused. And especially if she has a kid or two to support. Not much Government help for women like this.

Oh, of course she has the right to prostitute herself, and there are plenty of avenues for that, outside the bar scene.

I too an a self-funded retiree, and I came from a working class home, not that I think it matters in debates like this.

I am always amused when expats pontificate about Thailand and its culture, without, apparently, knowing much about it at all.

[Heng]

Chips on shoulders and lots of them by all involved in a lot of these situations (and not necessarily in this particular situation of course).

-taxi and motorcycle guys... a lot of these guys have current and former working girl wives or girlfriends. How heavy a chip would that be?

-farangs with working girl wives (even 'retired' working girls)... After a couple of years in country, often after you have kids and are 'locked in,' you have pretty much figured out that just about all locals can identify current and retired prostitutes. Chip city.

-add alcohol and language barrier you're going to get some flying chips.

[samran]

Who knows - the victim could have easily cracked it with his 100th 'hey mister, where you go, taxi, tuk tuk, sexy lady'?

As saddening as your upbringing was OP, as others have said, we may never know the real story here and to link the two is a bit disingenuous.

Edited August 5, 2012 by samran

[McMagus]

I'm Australian, 63 and have worked here for nearly 8 years. I actually feel safer walking through Bangkok at night than in sleepy little Hobart ! I remember a flight back to Thailand on a QANTAS plane and sitting next to me was a guy from NSW, he was proudly telling me as he swilled his beer how he was going to 'do' Walking St. in Pattaya. Across the aisle, three other Aussies in their wife beaters were loud, gauche and had no trouble convincing everyone how their collective IQ was at room temperature. I also have some Aussie friends here who are thoughtful, dignified and culturally aware. A recurring theme for me is how places like Patong attract a certain type, some are Aussies and some from other countries but they wear a badge of commonality; a total lack of grace, common sense and manners.

[Gweiloman]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

[true blue]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

i could be wrong but most europeans,yanks and aussies,seem to have a inbuilt aggresive streak in them,and a bit of a master race syndrome,

[pattayadingo]

I don't really see what your upbringing has to do with it. Many of us had a harsh upbringing from Victorian style parents and in relatively poor homes. Caned at school, bullied by teachers, clipped round the ear by policemen. Plenty of drunks about too, dishing out a bit of violence.

Avoiding known rough areas seems common sense to me and nothing to do with a persons upbringing. There are also many places where people get drunk but that does not mean they are violent.

[samran]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

i could be wrong but most europeans,yanks and aussies,seem to have a inbuilt aggresive streak in them,and a bit of a master race syndrome,

In addition to the fact that we probably aren't to attentive of Chinese/HK/Taiwanese/Singaporean/Malaysian/Korean and Japanese press reports, where you'd expect those stories to be printed - if any.

But then again, the world revolves around the white man, doesn't it?

[Sharp]

I am a middle aged Australian and self funded retiree.

I grew up poor. I was raised by my mum in a housing commission flat in a dreadful area of western Sydney.

Much of my child hood was spent hiding from tattooed, drunk, violent and abusive Australian men. My father was one of them.

It follows that I now have zero tolerance for drunken white trash.

In the decades past I used to spend a lot of time on Bali.

I stopped going there because I grew tired of watching senselessly drunk Australian tourists abusing the locals.

I now live in Phuket. I have been here for nearly three years and live in a lovely quiet part of the island.

I have made some wonderful Thai and expat friends and am very happy with my life.

Why I do not go to Patong

One of my strategies for ensuring a happy and safe life in Phuket is to never go to Patong.

In my first year of explorations of Phuket, I went to Patong a number of times. I have even ridden at night, without incident, on the infamous red tuk tuks.

But in the wake of these earlier explorations I now choose not to go to Patong.

My reason is simple: as stated above I have zero tolerance for drunken white trash.

If I wanted to wear a wife basher singlet and mix with tattooed, drunk, violent and abusive white men I could have stayed in the suburb I grew up in, dropped out of school, stole cars, and drunk myself stupid. Instead I lived in a garden shed for six years, worked three jobs, put myself through through university, started my own business, and retired at 45.

Why is Patong full of white trash?

Put simply, Phuket would appear in the final stages of it's product life cycle. Quality tourists have now moved on to more pristine milieus. As a destination, Patong is therefore left to scrap the bottom of the tourist barrel with the assistance of low cost airlines flying out from Australia (and Russia).

Is violent crime against Australians on the rise in Phuket?

Unfortunately, the answer would appear to be yes. The recent murder of Michelle Smith is a relevant example. A well regarded family lady doing nothing more than walking home from dinner with her friend and college was stabbed to death for her hand bag. My heart felt condolences go out to all of her family and friends.

Do some Australian tourists provoke violent responses from Thais?

I will leave you, kind reader, to answer this question for yourself. But to assist you with your thoughts it should prove useful to first have a look at some of the facts surrounding the recent bashing of Peter Hulands.

A few days ago the Phuket Gazette reported that Peter was bashed by five Tuk Tuk drivers. Apparently one driver made a comment about a hat worn by his girlfriend Kitty Cardway. The article is here:

http://www.phuketgaz...ticle16585.html

To be fair to Peter, Kitty, and the Tuk Tuk drivers of Patong, it seemed prudent to carry out some further research on the incident. Fortunately one need look no further than Kitty's own Facebook page.

On Facebook, Kitty writes:

"Some tuk tuk drivers said something offensive about me as we walked past and Peter went back and said "what did you f'n say?" ... and then he was on the ground and there were 5 of them kicking him. That's all that it took ... in hindsight we should have kept walking but can't change things now "

So it would seem that Peter and Kitty's side of the story can be simply stated as follows:

Offensive behavior toward women is not acceptable. Peter's response to the tuk tuk driver was therefore justified.

Or in Kitty's own words from her Facebook page:

"Unfortunately, it doesn't matter where in the world you are, you will always find this element of people who have no regard for others ... so sad "

Yes Kitty, stamping out offensive behavior toward women is important. Mainstream Thai culture embodies this at its core. Outside of the bar scene, a man touching a Thai women in public is a BIG taboo.

The problem for you and Peter however is that morality is reciprocal arrangement. That is, you respect the locals and in turn they respect you.

Perhaps if there were less Australian men, such as Peter, groping the breasts of Thai women in public, there would be less tuk tuk drivers making offensive comments Australian women.

A photo from your Facebook page says it all:

Yeah but that's a bloke .......

Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app

[BuffaloRescue]

Why do people even go to Phuket?

The further south you go the worst people are. Samui also bad.

People in pattaya are much friendlier.. especially the girls! Those islands are full of cocky arrogant scum bags. Its expensive too, the taxis are a rip off

[Ginkas]

A quote from the Phuket article:

"Some officers at the station noted that it was not the first time the Australian had been involved in a violent confrontation with local people in Patong."

The hat that may have triggered the sex comment leading to the violence. Photo: Facebook

[carmine]

Why do people even go to Phuket?

The further south you go the worst people are. Samui also bad.

People in pattaya are much friendlier.. especially the girls! Those islands are full of cocky arrogant scum bags. Its expensive too, the taxis are a rip off

So do i presume you had a failed business on one of the islands? The only accurate part of you silly post is the taxis being a rip off otherwise readers disregard

[namoi]

A quote from the Phuket article:

"Some officers at the station noted that it was not the first time the Australian had been involved in a violent confrontation with local people in Patong."

The hat that may have triggered the sex comment leading to the violence. Photo: Facebook

looks like he would be king of the kids with his TOUGHSTICKERS, I see no no need to comment on the thing with him, but, oh well, they will be legends amoung their own crowd when they get home

Edited August 6, 2012 by namoi

[jingjoe8]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

You do ifyou live in australia,i'm from north queensland and the local newspaper is always reporting attacks on tourists.....now imagine how bad it would be if they earned 40 times our salary and slept with our woman...... i hate to admit it but australia is a very bigoted,racist country.....or maybe its just us rednecks in the top end

[giddyup]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

You do ifyou live in australia,i'm from north queensland and the local newspaper is always reporting attacks on tourists.....now imagine how bad it would be if they earned 40 times our salary and slept with our woman...... i hate to admit it but australia is a very bigoted,racist country.....or maybe its just us rednecks in the top end

I think it's just the rednecks in the Top End. You couldn't find a much more multi cultural integrated culture in both Sydney and Melbourne, even Adelaide to a smaller degree.

[namoi]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

You do ifyou live in australia,i'm from north queensland and the local newspaper is always reporting attacks on tourists.....now imagine how bad it would be if they earned 40 times our salary and slept with our woman...... i hate to admit it but australia is a very bigoted,racist country.....or maybe its just us rednecks in the top end

I think it's just the rednecks in the Top End. You couldn't find a much more multi cultural integrated culture in both Sydney and Melbourne, even Adelaide to a smaller degree.

and don`t dare mention Brisvages

[F1fanatic]

Shouldn't this have been posted in the Phuket forum?

[chrisinth]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

Cause they know origami and stuff like that and can defend themselves................

[BookMan]

Why is it that we seldom hear of Chinese / Hong Kong / Taiwanese / Singaporean / Malaysian / Korean / Japanese tourists being beaten up?

You do ifyou live in australia,i'm from north queensland and the local newspaper is always reporting attacks on tourists.....now imagine how bad it would be if they earned 40 times our salary and slept with our woman...... i hate to admit it but australia is a very bigoted,racist country.....or maybe its just us rednecks in the top end

I think it's just the rednecks in the Top End. You couldn't find a much more multi cultural integrated culture in both Sydney and Melbourne, even Adelaide to a smaller degree.

and don`t dare mention Brisvages

Once you hit the Gold Coast you start to hear a lot of racist attitudes, that is for sure. I would consider the racism more overt in QLD than down South, esp. when it comes to the aboriginal population.

However...Sydney and Melbourne, despite being multicultural, have had many recent incidents of racial attacks, primarily against people of Asian descent.

You need look no further in Melbourne than the bashing of Indian students and workers.

A random selection of articles.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/train-gang-bashes-indian-student-20090511-azbq.html

http://www.theage.com.au/national/five-charged-over-bashing-of-indian-students-in-melbournes-cbd-20100126-muvx.html

For Sydney it has recently been attacks on Asian students, predominantly Chinese students

http://www.smh.com.au/national/this-city-is-so-dangerous-outrage-in-china-over-sydney-train-assault-20120424-1xiv4.html

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2012-05-10/chinese-students/4002782

[BookMan]

The FB page of Kitty Cardway is a blaze with 'Likes' (18,000+) and 'Being Talked about (4500+).

Her take on the incident, yesterday, from her FB page.

". There are a small percentage of people commenting on the Phuket News story that Peter and I are to blame as to what has happened ... I deserved the sexual taunts for wearing my hat, and Peter deserved what he got for confronting the tuk tuk driver.

I don't care for what these people think, and I have responded to their comments on the news page.

I do however care about what my father thinks. He'

s the most important person in my life and his opinion really matters to me, so I rang him and asked. I hated the thought that he might think less of Peter for what occurred.

This is what he told me ....

If you don't have principles, you have nothing! He said he would have done the same thing, and he's proud of Peter for taking a stand. He's also proud of us for not allowing the police to brush this under the carpet by telling us that in signing the incident report we were closing the case ... Their way of avoiding reporting it to the Chief of Police, Phuket, and the Australian Embassy.

I am glad we have taken a stand against the tuk tuk cartels and police corruption, and so is my father. That means a lot to me.

Thank you to all of you has supported and encouraged us to do the same!"

Edited August 6, 2012 by BookMan

[simple1]

I have lived in MLB, SYD and SE QLD with my Thai wife and from experience can assure you there is more anti Asian racist attitude in QLD from the "Aussie battler" so beloved by Australian politicians.

Edited August 6, 2012 by simple1

[BookMan]

I have lived in MLB, SYD and SE QLD with my Thai wife and from experience can assure you there is more anti Asian racist attitude in QLD from the "Aussie battler" so beloved by Australian politicians.

I agree...however, this might not translate to violence.

[metisdead]

Shouldn't this have been posted in the Phuket forum?

Moving to Phuket forum.

[simple1]

I have lived in MLB, SYD and SE QLD with my Thai wife and from experience can assure you there is more anti Asian racist attitude in QLD from the "Aussie battler" so beloved by Australian politicians.

I agree...however, this might not translate to violence.

True, but this demographic is more prone to violence.

[Scully]

A quote from the Phuket article:

"Some officers at the station noted that it was not the first time the Australian had been involved in a violent confrontation with local people in Patong."

The hat that may have triggered the sex comment leading to the violence. Photo: Facebook

Am I mistaken or is the helmet he is wearing a BIB issue?

[JaiLai]

A quote from the Phuket article:

"Some officers at the station noted that it was not the first time the Australian had been involved in a violent confrontation with local people in Patong."

The hat that may have triggered the sex comment leading to the violence. Photo: Facebook

Am I mistaken or is the helmet he is wearing a BIB issue?

Nice rack...