Double Pricing!

[Jingthing]

I have noticed an amusing pattern with street vendors when they are about to overcharge me (usually petty amounts).

I ask in Thai, how much? They answer in English with an amount that usually sounds to me a minor overcharge.

I find this amusing because I reckon they have some kind of rationale in their mind that they can say the number in English (even though I can obviously understand the number in Thai if I'm asking in Thai) so of course they can charge more for the extra special English speaking "tourist" service. In case you're wondering, I usually pay their price as I am just too lazy to haggle, shop around much when I want something and it's right there, or stress about trivial amounts. No I don't like it but not worth fighting it either for me.

[rinteln]

I have noticed an amusing pattern with street vendors when they are about to overcharge me (usually petty amounts).

I ask in Thai, how much? They answer in English with an amount that usually sounds to me a minor overcharge.

I find this amusing because I reckon they have some kind of rationale in their mind that they can say the number in English (even though I can obviously understand the number in Thai if I'm asking in Thai) so of course they can charge more for the extra special English speaking "tourist" service. In case you're wondering, I usually pay their price as I am just too lazy to haggle, shop around much when I want something and it's right there, or stress about trivial amounts. No I don't like it but not worth fighting it either for me.

Yes I have noticed this too actually.

[TheWalkingMan]

Above some people say that the price charged to the Thai is actually the discount price and the other price is the real price. Really? That does not sound correct. Discounts are usually given to a subset of the customers - Movie ticket discounts for seniors, bus discounts for seniors, student discounts, resident discounts etc. In the case of Thailand, the real price is what the Thai, or the person who looks Thai pays, and the other price (sometimes referred to as the sucker price) is the Thai price plus whatever the person/company feels they can charge.

When I think local price I think about the price for residents of a municipality and not just a national of a country. I suspect that most tourist places with double pricing have Thais as the most number of clients which again moves the idea of that price being a discount.

A friend of mine had a small outdoor bar which sold Sangsom at 10 baht a shot for Thais and 20 baht for foreigners. I would not consider the Thai price a discount. Another friend sells some type of health product, 2k for Thais and 2.5k for foreigners. Both of these are small examples of the business ideas practiced on a larger scale. Charge the Thai national one price and charge non-Thai a higher price. Many times these prices are increased not because of additional work but because the person is not Thai.

Like I said, I do not consider the price given to Thais as the discount price. That looks like the economic viable price and it looks like the other price is there because the people do not look Thai and the business operators think of them differently.

[brit1984]

Above some people say that the price charged to the Thai is actually the discount price and the other price is the real price. Really? That does not sound correct. Discounts are usually given to a subset of the customers - Movie ticket discounts for seniors, bus discounts for seniors, student discounts, resident discounts etc. In the case of Thailand, the real price is what the Thai, or the person who looks Thai pays, and the other price (sometimes referred to as the sucker price) is the Thai price plus whatever the person/company feels they can charge.

When I think local price I think about the price for residents of a municipality and not just a national of a country. I suspect that most tourist places with double pricing have Thais as the most number of clients which again moves the idea of that price being a discount.

A friend of mine had a small outdoor bar which sold Sangsom at 10 baht a shot for Thais and 20 baht for foreigners. I would not consider the Thai price a discount. Another friend sells some type of health product, 2k for Thais and 2.5k for foreigners. Both of these are small examples of the business ideas practiced on a larger scale. Charge the Thai national one price and charge non-Thai a higher price. Many times these prices are increased not because of additional work but because the person is not Thai.

Like I said, I do not consider the price given to Thais as the discount price. That looks like the economic viable price and it looks like the other price is there because the people do not look Thai and the business operators think of them differently.

Just because more people pay the discounted price rather than the full price, doesn't mean it is not a discount.

Anyway, it doesn't really matter whether you call it a discount or a premium, the economic rationale is just as clear.

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[brit1984]

In any and all market economies, supply and demand will dictate prices but even when other economic systems operate things are worth only what people will pay for them. A street vendor can be last in a long chain of middle men and transporters and depending at which point you can buy, prices will vary. There are laws about price tagging things in Thailand but haggling is so ingrained that this is not always the practice and prices can change. However, many markets often have prices for produce and that's what most of us would pay for the displayed items. But as has been stated in the context of commercial attractions, if you don't like the price, then don't buy.

This is a very good point. As already explained, price discrimination provides higher overall revenue for the vendor and allows for a lower discounted price (than the equilibrium equivalent with only one price), therefore more people's wants / needs can be satisfied.

As you say, if people don't like businesses that offer discounts for locals they can take their business elsewhere (or maybe they could just start a little farm and become self-sufficient and see how they get by without profit seeking entrepreneurs).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[Kananga]

Kananga "Never said it was. However you were under the impression it never happens in Singapore and I with 48 times more experience than you living there said it does and provided well known examples to back this up based on first hand experience that you dont have yet having just arrived."

Well Im glad we are starting to come to some sort of agreement in some way.

I am simply stating that in 2 months I have never experienced double pricing, I can only report my experience within that time. I believe I mainly used the word rare, which means I accept it can/does happen sometimes based on what colleagues have told me.

As I accept and concede to your greatness over me of "48 times more experience" (lol). I think it will be generally accepted by any rational person that 2 months (while yes being short) would be enough time to come across this problem at least once if it were big enough within the community. As I mentioned before I would only have to be back in Pattaya for a few days or even hours to come across double pricing, let alone 2 months. You may have more personal experience than me but as I mentioned and rather worryingly keep having to mention, I know of some westerners who have lived here for years and they say the practice is rare and doesnt happen enough for it to be a national or cultural problem for them. Now I cant see why they would lie as they dont have any interest in this topic or in this small side issue within Thai Visa forum. I also cant see how they could of missed double pricing in their day to day lives for all these years as they are all either married to or together with Singaporeans and doing everyday things like eating, using services, travelling etc etc.

Since our little side issue I have also quizzed one Chinese guy here who speaks perfect English, while he accepts that yes some taxi drivers do the long route and yes some food vendors will charge locals lower rates he doesnt think its much more than quite isolated and a small issue. Now I am really really hoping for you that you dont now come on here and now say that you have more experience of Singapore than a Chinese speaking Malaysian that has been living and working here, with westerners incidentally, on and off for 10 years !!

As I said I am sure there are cases of double pricing but as I think/hope you accepted it is not comparable with Thailand.

Never said it was comparable to Thailand, just that it happens after you were initially under the impression it didnt. I've told you it did after living there far far longer than you and cited examples where it happens frequently (Newton Circus, Lucky Plaza, Sim Lim) and this Malaysian Chinese person who has lived there on and off for ten years has reinforced what I said too. That it does happen. So if I were you I would accept that we (with nearly 20 years combined experience of living there compared with your two months) are right, you are wrong in assuming it doesnt ever happen and to keep your eyes open in future as I only had your best interests at heart.

Dont also forget that as you are under the impression it doesnt happen, so it may have already happened to you but you were blissfully unaware as you have an overconfident mindset that you are not getting ripped off. Not only is your guard is down but you come across strongly as someone who wont admit it when they are wrong and thats only going to serve you badly in the long run.

"Best interests at heart".............lol. Nice try. I dont think when coming into the thread and reading my comments that your intentions when replying were to help me, more to start a fight.

Thanks for your concern and advise on what I should do but I should be ok, thanks all the same.

I have reapeated my comments and points so many times now. If you dont get it by now then you never will and I cant put them any simpler for you.

Oh and yes, sorry I forgot to satisfy your ego as you seem to keep on going until I reply with something like the following line.................... Yes you are completly correct, I am completly wrong, i bow to your greatness and unchallengeable knowledge in regards to Singapore.

Cool, hopefully we are done here.

Thats ok. Apology accepted. Next time it would be far easier just to admit it straight off instead of watching you go through your cringeworthy death throes of attempting to save face which you have to admit imploded quite spectacularly. If you stick your hands over your ears and say it cant happen as you havent witnessed it in the incredibly short time you have lived there when someone who has lived there far longer has enlightened you that it does then you are not going to get very far in life. Its ok to be wrong sometimes. Accept it, learn from people with more experience than you and move on with a little dignity and respect for yourself and others.

Bye for now.

[Kananga]

I have noticed an amusing pattern with street vendors when they are about to overcharge me (usually petty amounts).

I ask in Thai, how much? They answer in English with an amount that usually sounds to me a minor overcharge.

I find this amusing because I reckon they have some kind of rationale in their mind that they can say the number in English (even though I can obviously understand the number in Thai if I'm asking in Thai) so of course they can charge more for the extra special English speaking "tourist" service. In case you're wondering, I usually pay their price as I am just too lazy to haggle, shop around much when I want something and it's right there, or stress about trivial amounts. No I don't like it but not worth fighting it either for me.

Yes I have noticed this too actually.

Happens in Singapore a lot too.

[pauljones]

In any and all market economies, supply and demand will dictate prices but even when other economic systems operate things are worth only what people will pay for them. A street vendor can be last in a long chain of middle men and transporters and depending at which point you can buy, prices will vary. There are laws about price tagging things in Thailand but haggling is so ingrained that this is not always the practice and prices can change. However, many markets often have prices for produce and that's what most of us would pay for the displayed items. But as has been stated in the context of commercial attractions, if you don't like the price, then don't buy.

This is a very good point. As already explained, price discrimination provides higher overall revenue for the vendor and allows for a lower discounted price (than the equilibrium equivalent with only one price), therefore more people's wants / needs can be satisfied.

As you say, if people don't like businesses that offer discounts for locals they can take their business elsewhere (or maybe they could just start a little farm and become self-sufficient and see how they get by without profit seeking entrepreneurs).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Millions of tourist walk away each year thinking they were being shamrlessly gouged when if fact the Thais were charging them retail.

I think you are being insincere or more likely being scammed all day long and not even realizing it.

Edited August 19, 2012 by pauljones

[brit1984]

In any and all market economies, supply and demand will dictate prices but even when other economic systems operate things are worth only what people will pay for them. A street vendor can be last in a long chain of middle men and transporters and depending at which point you can buy, prices will vary. There are laws about price tagging things in Thailand but haggling is so ingrained that this is not always the practice and prices can change. However, many markets often have prices for produce and that's what most of us would pay for the displayed items. But as has been stated in the context of commercial attractions, if you don't like the price, then don't buy.

This is a very good point. As already explained, price discrimination provides higher overall revenue for the vendor and allows for a lower discounted price (than the equilibrium equivalent with only one price), therefore more people's wants / needs can be satisfied.

As you say, if people don't like businesses that offer discounts for locals they can take their business elsewhere (or maybe they could just start a little farm and become self-sufficient and see how they get by without profit seeking entrepreneurs).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Millions of tourist walk away each year thinking they were being shamrlessly gouged when if fact the Thais were charging them retail.

I think you are being insincere or more likely being scammed all day long and not even realizing it.

"Millions" of tourists do not think like you. I have never even heard anyone mention this issue, except on Thai Visa. The vast majority of tourists come on holiday to enjoy themselves and are generally amazed how cheap everything is. Very few could care less if anything they purchased is available at an ever lower price for Thai residents, especially as even tourists can see that Thai people are on average very poor.

How could I have been scammed? Every business I buy from has a menu or a price board, I see the price and then I make the purchase for the stated price. The good / service delivered has always been the one I ordered and the price has always been as displayed. As I explained earlier, a scam is when a person / business defrauds another person / business. Please explain how I have been scammed / defrauded...

[pauljones]

In any and all market economies, supply and demand will dictate prices but even when other economic systems operate things are worth only what people will pay for them. A street vendor can be last in a long chain of middle men and transporters and depending at which point you can buy, prices will vary. There are laws about price tagging things in Thailand but haggling is so ingrained that this is not always the practice and prices can change. However, many markets often have prices for produce and that's what most of us would pay for the displayed items. But as has been stated in the context of commercial attractions, if you don't like the price, then don't buy.

This is a very good point. As already explained, price discrimination provides higher overall revenue for the vendor and allows for a lower discounted price (than the equilibrium equivalent with only one price), therefore more people's wants / needs can be satisfied.

As you say, if people don't like businesses that offer discounts for locals they can take their business elsewhere (or maybe they could just start a little farm and become self-sufficient and see how they get by without profit seeking entrepreneurs).

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

Millions of tourist walk away each year thinking they were being shamrlessly gouged when if fact the Thais were charging them retail.

I think you are being insincere or more likely being scammed all day long and not even realizing it.

"Millions" of tourists do not think like you. I have never even heard anyone mention this issue, except on Thai Visa. The vast majority of tourists come on holiday to enjoy themselves and are generally amazed how cheap everything is. Very few could care less if anything they purchased is available at an ever lower price for Thai residents, especially as even tourists can see that Thai people are on average very poor.

How could I have been scammed? Every business I buy from has a menu or a price board, I see the price and then I make the purchase for the stated price. The good / service delivered has always been the one I ordered and the price has always been as displayed. As I explained earlier, a scam is when a person / business defrauds another person / business. Please explain how I have been scammed / defrauded...

You are beginning to sound allot like the banned Thai Visa member, Bendix.

Thai Vias #1 apologist, defending shameless behavior.

[tropo]

The massive influx of non-traditional tourists is beginning to be seen by many vendors as an opportunity to overcharge. This is evident near Central Festival. If you want to see how mass tourism effects local pricing,(not to mention attitudes toward Farangs) then take a trip to Phuket, and you will get an idea of the direction that Pattaya is heading - which I find much more alarming than the actions of a few disrespectful greedy Thais.

Why do you use the word "overcharge"? It's not over charging at all. Getting the best price for products and services is a normal business practice. Why should they charge less when they can get more in that particular area where the market is better. You would probably find that getting vendor licences in these prime areas is also more difficult and more expensive than 3km east of Sukhumvit (for example).... and then you take the opportunity to insult these Thais running legitimate businesses in these areas.

[Rimmer]

Un called for unsubstantiated attack on another member removed also quoted replies

[brit1984]

You are beginning to sound allot like the banned Thai Visa member, Bendix.

Thai Vias #1 apologist, defending shameless behavior.

I will ignore your flame as my original response to it was deleted after you reported it, and I don't want to waste any more of the mods time looking after you.

Anyway, there is really no need to be so emotional about a simple discussion of the economic concept of price discrimination and it's practical application as part of the pricing strategy of some businesses.

Do you have anything intelligent to add?

Sent from iPhone; please forgive any typos or violations of forum rules

[tropo]

You do see the main point though? Perhaps you need to jump on a cardio machine instead of a fallacious conclusion.

The only point you made was that you don't have a clue about markets.

Now what does this have to do with "jump on a cardio machine"?

Edited August 19, 2012 by tropo

[Ling Kae]

Today I went to Nong Nooch again. 2 Farangs, one a tourist (no Thai license) and myself a long term resident with Thai Drivers License. The 2 Thai ladies and I got in for 200 baht each, my friend had to pay 500. I flashed the Thai DL and I got the Thai price, gee I wished that worked everywhere. Good on Nong Nooch for using commonsense.

Also went to the Chinese museum ANEK KUSALA SALA (VIHARASIEN) all us were treated as equals and we all paid 50 baht entry fee, very impressed with the equal pricing of this place and it's an interesting museum too.