Working Online For Foreign Business

[username1]

Tried to search this, but did not find a thread about this exact situation. I'm planning to come Thailand and work online for foreign (EU) business. I would still like to pay my taxes to Thailand, because of high taxes in my home country. Is this somehow possible and if so, what would be the best solution?

[whybother]

Problem number 1: if you work here (regardless of who/where you are working for) you need a work permit.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[username1]

Problem number 1: if you work here (regardless of who/where you are working for) you need a work permit.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Okay, is there a way to get one in my situation?

[whybother]

Problem number 1: if you work here (regardless of who/where you are working for) you need a work permit.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Okay, is there a way to get one in my situation?

There are companies that would supply a work permit for you (you would be "working" for that company) but it would cost more than 30K baht per month.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[username1]

Could you give me a link where I could find such companies? 20-40k baht might be okay, depending how is it done and is it progressive price.

[tim73]

It is totally grey area. If you do not have anything to do with Thailand business wise then you probably will be ok just with just tourist visas. Many, many people do that and they receive money to some foreign account. For example book authors are just fine, writing their books here while on tourist visa.

You cannot get work permit in Thailand for remote work. There is no such thing. You cannot even own your business in Thailand 100 percent, you have to find four Thai business partners who would own majority of shares. Some officials say remote work is illegal and require a work permit but it is catch-22. You cannot apply for one.

Then some officials say it is perfectly ok as long as you do not work in Thailand for Thai businesses or have nothing to do with Thailand. They think it is like a foreigner checking his emails in a hotel with his laptop while having a very long holiday. Basically he is working too but waste of time to go after them. Welcome to TiT :-)

[crille30]

As tim73 says there is no rules and laws so you can do this kind of work.About to so called work for a company and pay them is sure a grey area and then some more .You would not know if they are having there paper in order and maybe you getting involved in there shit,stay away from that.No law against check your mail,read books online etc and because you want to stay in Thailand you like to learn Thai so you will go to school and learn Thai, so you will have a ED-visa and you will go to a proper school so you will have a lot of homework,you are a student so of course you can use a computer for you studies??

[username1]

Thanks for the advices, but my true problem is high taxes in my home country. I know that it's very possible to have a so called long holiday while doing some kind of job in Internet AND receive money to your bank account back in home. But if I wanted to pay taxes (or mostly avoid these insane taxes in Finland) to Thailand, you are saying that is impossible?

Any other solution for this? I'm quite sure someone else have had the same problem as I'm having.

[Soutpeel]

It is totally grey area. If you do not have anything to do with Thailand business wise then you probably will be ok just with just tourist visas. Many, many people do that and they receive money to some foreign account. For example book authors are just fine, writing their books here while on tourist visa.

You cannot get work permit in Thailand for remote work. There is no such thing. You cannot even own your business in Thailand 100 percent, you have to find four Thai business partners who would own majority of shares. Some officials say remote work is illegal and require a work permit but it is catch-22. You cannot apply for one.

Then some officials say it is perfectly ok as long as you do not work in Thailand for Thai businesses or have nothing to do with Thailand. They think it is like a foreigner checking his emails in a hotel with his laptop while having a very long holiday. Basically he is working too but waste of time to go after them. Welcome to TiT :-)

without want to start this old chestnut again....this is not a grey area, its illegal without a WP, Phuket Immigration/DOL stated this catagorically and publically and asked that people report, people are doing this as they will prosecute them.

You could get a WP in Thailand setting up an appropriate Thai Ltd company, and you are rationalising as regards the "Catch 22"...just because the perception is you cant get a WP does not equate to something being legal to work in Thailand without a WP

Your example of a tourist checking their email is a valid one, but the vast majority of people working on line business in Thailand are not tourist's, irrespective of the visa type, they are claiming residency, as it appears the OP wants to do.

Real tourists come to Thailand have a holiday and leave again. How many people working on line business in Thailand have Thai DL's, long term leases, cars etc...in essence they are resident ?

"Some officals say"....fine but ask for the same information in writing in an offical letter and see waht happens

Further if you are in Thailand for more than 180 days/yr you would be classed as a resident and technically you should be paying tax in Thailand.

Let me close in saying I couldnt care less what people do, but I am providing the OP the other perspective on this question and if wants to take the chance, its up to him

[lopburi3]

As said you would need to be working for a Thai company and that company doing the billing and paying you. Not that difficult and you can set up the company (majority Thai owned) or use an established Thai owned company. But have no idea what your home country rules are on tax.

[Sateev]

Move to Cambodia. Business visa ~US$300/year. No one cares. Pop over the border now and again to Thailand for whatever it is you seek here.

Doubt there are many Finland tax experts here, though, so you'll need professional advice about where and when Finnish tax applies. If you need to show tax paid to another country, Cambodia needs/wants your hard earned tax $$, albeit at a MUCH lower rate than Finland.

Forget trying to be legit in Thailand. It's their sandbox, and you aren't welcome.

[Soutpeel]

Move to Cambodia. Business visa ~US$300/year. No one cares. Pop over the border now and again to Thailand for whatever it is you seek here.

Doubt there are many Finland tax experts here, though, so you'll need professional advice about where and when Finnish tax applies. If you need to show tax paid to another country, Cambodia needs/wants your hard earned tax $$, albeit at a MUCH lower rate than Finland.

Forget trying to be legit in Thailand. It's their sandbox, and you aren't welcome.

Yes simple solution for the visa issue, but the other side to his question is him wanting to get a more preferable tax arrangment.

Could he achieve what he is trying to do in Thailand ?, Yes but would need to become fully legal with a Thai Ltd company to make this work.

I dont know how this would work in Cambodia. For Thailand what he is proposing is technically working/running a business illegally in Thailand, but legally paying income tax to get away from paying tax in Finland...this would not work.

[whybother]

Move to Cambodia. Business visa ~US$300/year. No one cares. Pop over the border now and again to Thailand for whatever it is you seek here.

Doubt there are many Finland tax experts here, though, so you'll need professional advice about where and when Finnish tax applies. If you need to show tax paid to another country, Cambodia needs/wants your hard earned tax $$, albeit at a MUCH lower rate than Finland.

Forget trying to be legit in Thailand. It's their sandbox, and you aren't welcome.

Yes simple solution for the visa issue, but the other side to his question is him wanting to get a more preferable tax arrangment.

Could he achieve what he is trying to do in Thailand ?, Yes but would need to become fully legal with a Thai Ltd company to make this work.

I dont know how this would work in Cambodia. For Thailand what he is proposing is technically working/running a business illegally in Thailand, but legally paying income tax to get away from paying tax in Finland...this would not work.

Effectively, he would be working for a Thai company as a consultant, and consulting to the Finnish company. Nothing illegal about that.

The Thai company would be invoicing the Finnish company, and would pay him that money less "commission" and taxes.

My company provides work permits in that way, but are running short of Thai staff and registered capital at the moment.

There could also be the option of the Finnish company paying some of that money offshore (instead of the Thai company invoicing the full amount), reducing taxes further. That would be a different discussion though.

[Soutpeel]

Move to Cambodia. Business visa ~US$300/year. No one cares. Pop over the border now and again to Thailand for whatever it is you seek here.

Doubt there are many Finland tax experts here, though, so you'll need professional advice about where and when Finnish tax applies. If you need to show tax paid to another country, Cambodia needs/wants your hard earned tax $$, albeit at a MUCH lower rate than Finland.

Forget trying to be legit in Thailand. It's their sandbox, and you aren't welcome.

Yes simple solution for the visa issue, but the other side to his question is him wanting to get a more preferable tax arrangment.

Could he achieve what he is trying to do in Thailand ?, Yes but would need to become fully legal with a Thai Ltd company to make this work.

I dont know how this would work in Cambodia. For Thailand what he is proposing is technically working/running a business illegally in Thailand, but legally paying income tax to get away from paying tax in Finland...this would not work.

Effectively, he would be working for a Thai company as a consultant, and consulting to the Finnish company. Nothing illegal about that.

The Thai company would be invoicing the Finnish company, and would pay him that money less "commission" and taxes.

My company provides work permits in that way, but are running short of Thai staff and registered capital at the moment.

There could also be the option of the Finnish company paying some of that money offshore (instead of the Thai company invoicing the full amount), reducing taxes further. That would be a different discussion though.

Yes of course your solution would be the way to go

[Dork]

Others have already explained the legality of "working" in Thailand but I think you will find that to release yourself from the obligation to pay taxes in Finland you need to become Non tax resident in Finland which has nothing to do with whether you pay taxes in (say) Thailand or not. If you were to make use of a tax treaty (or double taxation agreement) between Finland & Thailand that would simply mean that the taxes you paid in Thailand would be deducted from the amount you are assessed to pay in Finland. So not very helpful.

If you manage to become non tax resident in Finland then whatever taxes you pay or don't pay in another country will not concern the Finnish tax authorities because unlike eg. the US, Finland doesn't tax it's citizens on worldwide income - once they are non resident.

Exactly what criteria you need to fill to become non tax resident in Finland I can't say, but you can be sure that at the least it will require you to be out of Finland more than 180 days (or more?) per calendar or tax year. My limited understanding is that though Finnish tax laws are quite tough they aren't as draconian as say Denmark or Sweden where the onus is on you to prove that you have greater ties to your new country of residence than you do in your home country (no house, wife etc.). I have several Finnish friends & colleagues living around Asia and they definitely don't pay Finnish taxes so it can be done.

I guess my point is that this something you need to check in Finland or at least with other Finns. Perhaps there are some here that know the situation better.

[crille30]

Move to Cambodia. Business visa ~US$300/year. No one cares. Pop over the border now and again to Thailand for whatever it is you seek here.

Doubt there are many Finland tax experts here, though, so you'll need professional advice about where and when Finnish tax applies. If you need to show tax paid to another country, Cambodia needs/wants your hard earned tax $$, albeit at a MUCH lower rate than Finland.

Forget trying to be legit in Thailand. It's their sandbox, and you aren't welcome.

Yes simple solution for the visa issue, but the other side to his question is him wanting to get a more preferable tax arrangment.

Could he achieve what he is trying to do in Thailand ?, Yes but would need to become fully legal with a Thai Ltd company to make this work.

I dont know how this would work in Cambodia. For Thailand what he is proposing is technically working/running a business illegally in Thailand, but legally paying income tax to get away from paying tax in Finland...this would not work.

Effectively, he would be working for a Thai company as a consultant, and consulting to the Finnish company. Nothing illegal about that.

The Thai company would be invoicing the Finnish company, and would pay him that money less "commission" and taxes.

My company provides work permits in that way, but are running short of Thai staff and registered capital at the moment.

There could also be the option of the Finnish company paying some of that money offshore (instead of the Thai company invoicing the full amount), reducing taxes further. That would be a different discussion though.

This sounds like a great way to do it.

[crille30]

Thanks for the advices, but my true problem is high taxes in my home country. I know that it's very possible to have a so called long holiday while doing some kind of job in Internet AND receive money to your bank account back in home. But if I wanted to pay taxes (or mostly avoid these insane taxes in Finland) to Thailand, you are saying that is impossible?

Any other solution for this? I'm quite sure someone else have had the same problem as I'm having.

well you can set up and offshore company and the company bill the Finnish company,and then were you stay or work is a different issue.Im in the process doing it and the cost is around 1000euro for full package.Pm me if you want more info on offshore.

[tim73]

Thanks for the advices, but my true problem is high taxes in my home country. I know that it's very possible to have a so called long holiday while doing some kind of job in Internet AND receive money to your bank account back in home. But if I wanted to pay taxes (or mostly avoid these insane taxes in Finland) to Thailand, you are saying that is impossible?

Any other solution for this? I'm quite sure someone else have had the same problem as I'm having.

Setup a company somewhere else in a low tax country and charge your customer from there. Perfectly legal in EU. Then withdraw from there your money for expenses in Thailand. I heard Baltics have quite low taxes? When you yourself are abroad the possibilities are much greater for tax planning than for an average Joe living in his home country.

You just have to dig up more. In most cases you could even avoid paying taxes completely because you are not in the EU anymore. Basically you could setup a company to Cayman Islands. Tax officials do not go after individuals abroad (except from Nazi USA which taxes on citizenship, not actual location) unless there are financial crimes involved like fraud.

It is just too difficult to setup a company in Thailand because you have to find four Thai partners. Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company. It does not even make any sense for freelancers to have four partners doing nothing and owning the majority of shares. I am myself retired, so for folks over 50 it is easier. It is sad that Thailand does not want to create a freelancer visa which would bring boatloads of money to Thai government in taxes.

[whybother]

Thanks for the advices, but my true problem is high taxes in my home country. I know that it's very possible to have a so called long holiday while doing some kind of job in Internet AND receive money to your bank account back in home. But if I wanted to pay taxes (or mostly avoid these insane taxes in Finland) to Thailand, you are saying that is impossible?

Any other solution for this? I'm quite sure someone else have had the same problem as I'm having.

Setup a company somewhere else in a low tax country and charge your customer from there. Perfectly legal in EU. Then withdraw from there your money for expenses in Thailand. I heard Baltics have quite low taxes? When you yourself are abroad the possibilities are much greater for tax planning than for an average Joe living in his home country.

You just have to dig up more. In most cases you could even avoid paying taxes completely because you are not in the EU anymore. Basically you could setup a company to Cayman Islands. Tax officials do not go after individuals abroad (except from Nazi USA which taxes on citizenship, not actual location) unless there are financial crimes involved like fraud.

It is just too difficult to setup a company in Thailand because you have to find four Thai partners. Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company. It does not even make any sense for freelancers to have four partners doing nothing and owning the majority of shares. I am myself retired, so for folks over 50 it is easier. It is sad that Thailand does not want to create a freelancer visa which would bring boatloads of money to Thai government in taxes.

Setting up and charging from a company elsewhere does not help "username1" work and stay in Thailand.

[Dork]

It is just too difficult to setup a company in Thailand because you have to find four Thai partners. Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company.

Why four Thai partners? Are you referring to the former requirement for 7 shareholders in a private limited company?

And the shareholders "cannot even know each other". Where do you get that from?

Actually nowadays it is remakably quick and easy to form a limited company in Thailand. Closing one down - now that's another matter.

[FritsSikkink]

As tim73 says there is no rules and laws so you can do this kind of work.

Not true, there are rules: you are not allowed to work without a workpermit even if you work for free.

That it is hard to get a permit is a total different story.

[FritsSikkink]

Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company.

You don't know what you are talking about.

[tim73]

Ok, I got a little bit outdated/wrong info:

"Generally, businesses in Thailand are set up through private companies. In this type of business there is no limit on capital investment. Foreigners may in general own 100% of the shares of a private company but there are certain types of business that foreigners cannot own on a majority basis, under the Foreign Business Act and other industry specific legislation. In some cases it may be possible to apply for a licence or permission for majority foreign ownership.

Private companies need to have at least three promoters to register the company and a minimum of three shareholders must be maintained at all times. In addition accounting, auditing and tax filing procedures described in the Civil and Commercial Code, the Revenue Code, and the Accounts Act, must always be complied with.

Note: On 1 July 2008 an amendment came into effect reducing the required number of shareholders from seven (as it had been previously) to three. Existing companies with seven shareholders may reduce their number of shareholders to three, but this will have tax and legal implications and professional advice should be taken."

"Foreign Business Act Restrictions

According to Thailand Foreign Business Act B.E. 2542 (FBA), there are 3 types of business activities:

List 1: Business Not Permitted to Foreigners

List 2: Business Permitted to Foreigners under Conditions

List 3: Business Not Yet Permitted to Foreigners

The minimum capital requirement for foreigners is two million baht in general, and three million baht for those under List 2 or List 3."

http://bangkok.anglo...usiness.asp#FBA

http://www.siam-lega...ess-Act-FBA.php

Still, 50 000 euros plus fees for setting up a company...that is quite a lot. How there could be THREE shareholders if a foreigner owned 100 percent?! :---) Really TiT stuff....

[Fookhaht]

It is just too difficult to setup a company in Thailand because you have to find four Thai partners. Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company.

Why four Thai partners? Are you referring to the former requirement for 7 shareholders in a private limited company?

And the shareholders "cannot even know each other". Where do you get that from?

Actually nowadays it is remakably quick and easy to form a limited company in Thailand. Closing one down - now that's another matter.

I agree with Dork. tim73's post is one big error. I have set up a Thai company with ONE Thai partner, him owning 51%. It took about a half-hour at a local government office, and a small fee of a few hundred baht.

[Fookhaht]

By the way, the OP needs to do a little more searching on Thai Visa. This has been discussed DOZENS of times in the 8-9 years I've been frequenting this forum. But I'm not going to do your homework for you, sorry!

[Soutpeel]

It is just too difficult to setup a company in Thailand because you have to find four Thai partners. Legally they cannot even know each other when a foreigner setups a company.

Why four Thai partners? Are you referring to the former requirement for 7 shareholders in a private limited company?

And the shareholders "cannot even know each other". Where do you get that from?

Actually nowadays it is remakably quick and easy to form a limited company in Thailand. Closing one down - now that's another matter.

I agree with Dork. tim73's post is one big error. I have set up a Thai company with ONE Thai partner, him owning 51%. It took about a half-hour at a local government office, and a small fee of a few hundred baht.

tim73 doesnt know what he is talking about and is cutting and pasting extracts from other websites

[tim73]

tim73 doesnt know what he is talking about and is cutting and pasting extracts from other websites

Then enlighten us, if you know better or point to some links. My links were from actual law firms. Some vague comment "I started a company with one Thai person" does not really tell anything. How would a freelancer alone start a Thailand based company with reasonable costs? 50000 euros is not reasonable.

[whybother]

tim73 doesnt know what he is talking about and is cutting and pasting extracts from other websites

Then enlighten us, if you know better or point to some links. My links were from actual law firms. Some vague comment "I started a company with one Thai person" does not really tell anything. How would a freelancer alone start a Thailand based company with reasonable costs? 50000 euros is not reasonable.

The 50,000 Euros (about 2 mil baht) refers to the registered capital required to get a work permit, not to the actual cost of starting a company.

Generally, you don't HAVE to have 2 mil baht. There are ways of accounting your way around most of it.

[Soutpeel]

tim73 doesnt know what he is talking about and is cutting and pasting extracts from other websites

Then enlighten us, if you know better or point to some links. My links were from actual law firms. Some vague comment "I started a company with one Thai person" does not really tell anything. How would a freelancer alone start a Thailand based company with reasonable costs? 50000 euros is not reasonable.

The 50,000 Euros (about 2 mil baht) refers to the registered capital required to get a work permit, not to the actual cost of starting a company.

Generally, you don't HAVE to have 2 mil baht. There are ways of accounting your way around most of it.

And if said person is married to a Thai national then the amount of captialisation is halved to THB 1.0 million, as is Thai nationals employed

Also could investigate getting a sole prop set up instead of a limited company, but beleive some DOL's have an issue giving a WP on a sole prop

Could also approach an existing company and get them to "employ" you and you carry all cost such as WP, taxation etc and pay them a fee and invoice throught them, Which is what I beleive you suggest in an earlier post

Could also look at a representative company set up...although the captial repatriation requirements are quite high over 5 years, but does away with all Ltd company requirements for captialisation and employing Thai nationals, in effect it could be a 1 man band

[whybother]

And if said person is married to a Thai national then the amount of captialisation is halved to THB 1.0 million, as is Thai nationals employed

Also could investigate getting a sole prop set up instead of a limited company, but beleive some DOL's have an issue giving a WP on a sole prop

Could also approach an existing company and get them to "employ" you and you carry all cost such as WP, taxation etc and pay them a fee and invoice throught them, Which is what I beleive you suggest in an earlier post

From one of the links earlier:

Other than those who are permitted under the United States-Thailand Treaty on Amity and Economic Co-operation, foreigners may not run sole proprietorships.

http://bangkok.angloinfo.com/countries/thailand/business.asp#FBA

I see there being 3 options:

1) Find a company to "employ" you.

2) Start your own company.

3) Set up an offshore company and live/work here under the radar.

Option (1) would be the best ... but you need to find that company.

Option (2) is not feasible for at least a couple of years of being here.

Option (3) is the riskiest, but maybe easiest.