Thai Boxer Kaeo Pongprayoon To Fight For Gold Medal

[Mosha]

From what the wife is watching, Thailand isn't taking the result well.

[SlyAnimal]

Bah such a terrible result.

I'll admit, I'm not boxing judge or anything, but imo:

Chinese guy infringed more

Thai guy threw more punches

Thai guy landed more punches

Thai guy landed more powerful punches

Thus to me, the result seemed pretty crazy. The points seemed wrong in almost every round, and the Chinese guy should have been penalised earlier, and the Thai guy shouldn't have been penalised at all.

As for the 5 minutes to lodge a complaint, his coach was angry, and rightly so. He was telling about how he wanted to contest the result, pretty much as soon as he got out of the ring. But, apparently the 5 minutes only really covers while you're still in the ring.

If it was me, I'd have probably been a lot less sportsmanlike than what they were. I was surprised that the Thai guy managed to keep his cool as much as he did, he seemed more heartbroken than angry.

Could have been corruption, as seems like that's what the BBC has essentially accused them of for previous boxing fights (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19212567).

Also someone said that the nation was slow to publish a story on the result. I'm not surprised, they would need to be careful of defamation laws lol. The BBC is already being sued for their articles on corruption, Thailand's laws around defamation mean that I think you could potentially even goto court for a negative review on a restaurant etc, thus a negative review on the refereeing decisions would have to be very carefully worded (And there's no way they could report on the fight without mentioning the referees decisions, and the controversy of them. Particularly when they need to be translated into English as well)

[Zodiac]

Outrageous result and there have been a few in the Olympic boxing which is caused by poor judging which is probably biased or corrupt or both. The "sport" of boxing is known for its' poor judging as that recent fight of the Phillipino Manny Pacquiao illustrates.

The judging system in the last Olympics was better when the immediate score within each round was shown on the screen and would only register if a number of the judges decided a point was scored by pressing a gadget simultaneously.

Also:

Instead of allowing all sorts of dubious and corruptable officials to be named as judges they should get impartial professional judges whose backgrounds and abilities are beyond reproach. But of coures they won't, as its' likely that vast sums of money have been changing hands enriching some of these so called officials!

Edited August 12, 2012 by Zodiac

[scotbeve]

A blind man could see Thailand should have won gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QOzaSSjsc

I wonder why this video can not be seen anymore???????

[thaicbr]

I watched the fight and personally I think the Chinese guy had the 1st round. But 2nd and 3rd go to the Thai. I have no idea why the thai guy got a penalty in the 1st round. Anybody know why?

sent from my Wellcom A90+

[Mosha]

Scot click on the watch on You tube bar.

[DP25]

A blind man could see Thailand should have won gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QOzaSSjsc

I wonder why this video can not be seen anymore???????

You can't watch this channel in the US or UK and some other countries because of broadcast rights. It's working fine in Thailand though.

[scotbeve]

A blind man could see Thailand should have won gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QOzaSSjsc

I wonder why this video can not be seen anymore???????

You can't watch this channel in the US or UK and some other countries because of broadcast rights. It's working fine in Thailand though.

I'm here in the GULF of Thailand but we're going through a Singaporean server.

[Fozfromoz]

A blind man could see Thailand should have won gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QOzaSSjsc

I wonder why this video can not be seen anymore???????

You can't watch this channel in the US or UK and some other countries because of broadcast rights. It's working fine in Thailand though.

Yep clicked the link and came straight up on the iPad

[FOODLOVER]

Just watched, Thai should have won but people are saying that he reacted poorly. I didn't see that. I saw a man disappointed and a farang coach acting like an ass by waving the Chinese boxer away, or did i miss something? Note, the Thai coach did not react in this manner.

[Payboy]

Just watched, Thai should have won but people are saying that he reacted poorly. I didn't see that. I saw a man disappointed and a farang coach acting like an ass by waving the Chinese boxer away, or did i miss something? Note, the Thai coach did not react in this manner.

Coach is Cuban. He should have lodged an appeal instead of wasting time with those theatrics to the gallery.

[FOODLOVER]

Just watched, Thai should have won but people are saying that he reacted poorly. I didn't see that. I saw a man disappointed and a farang coach acting like an ass by waving the Chinese boxer away, or did i miss something? Note, the Thai coach did not react in this manner.

Coach is Cuban. He should have lodged an appeal instead of wasting time with those theatrics to the gallery.

Fully agree

[jcw]

I just watched the replay, it was clearly 2 vrs one in the ring, The referee was a joke.

The Commentators, "Argh your joking referee, Unbelievable"

Thai clearly won that fight and the Ref should be bared from life and jailed.

Also, that other paper has some strong opinions.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-19212567

Edited August 12, 2012 by jcw

[Nisa]

A blind man could see Thailand should have won gold!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7-QOzaSSjsc

Thanks for sharing. In Bangkok using True and no problem watching it except that it needs to be watched on Youtube and can't be watched (embedded) on a 3rd party site such as Thaivisa or Facebook.

Thanks again :-( would (should) have been a nice and deserved Gold for Thailand.

[bigbamboo]

Crowds are fickle things though, their motivation is to see action. I think you have to take crowd reaction out of it 100%, it means nothing.

I admire China, and this admiration has been increasing as I watch this games. They don't care.... they don't give a flying fuc_k what the world cares... they are there to win. That is it. Over. And they are very good at that. They are also somehow trained in a way that almost precludes choking, I swear. Not sure how they do it, but it is impressive. I don't know boxing, but this case seemed to be one where the Chinese boxer got out to a lead, and wanted to maintain his lead until the end. Ironically, I watched a match the other night where a Thai Taikwondo fighter pulled into a very strong lead with only seconds. She lost to Spain because, it would seem to me, she went for offense when she should be thinking 100% defense. You don't get points for impressing an audience, people need to remember that. If there is something in the rules that says you can't maintain a lead, then I understand, but I would not think there is.

Lastly, given what I have read in this thread, the Thais reaction was very poor. You must understand the gravity of being on a world stage like that if you are an athlete or coach. Ironically, the coach didn't get in the appeal on time, if he was calm he may have. He was too busy freaking out.... that is always the way it works out, stay cool and good things come.

Yep, the Chinese are there to win, even when they are deliberately trying to lose!

Shame the Thais camp didn't take heed of the advice always given to farang here....... never lose your cool in front of officials no matter how wronged you feel.

Edited August 12, 2012 by bigbamboo

[RAZZELL]

Just watched the fight, It was close , even if you take away the 2 point penalty against the Thai boxer Zou Shimming still one by 1 point , Dont be sore losers and give credit to the Chinese boxer who retained his Olympic title,

I watched the fight and many others...and was at the Excel on Friday

IMHO Thai guy won rounds 2 and 3 (although both were close)...but there was no way on earth he lost the final round.

RAZZ

[HughJass]

the judges gave the chinese fighter the last round 7-6 which was a total travesty as the thai fighter clearly won the last round

the thai fighter should never have been given the public warning thus having two points deducted

therefore the fight should have been draw on points but for the thai fighter to lose 13-10 was a travesty of justice

but this what u get when inexperienced judges and refs are put in charge of fights

[KKvampire]

Just watched the fight, It was close , even if you take away the 2 point penalty against the Thai boxer Zou Shimming still one by 1 point , Dont be sore losers and give credit to the Chinese boxer who retained his Olympic title,

I watched the fight and many others...and was at the Excel on Friday

IMHO Thai guy won rounds 2 and 3 (although both were close)...but there was no way on earth he lost the final round.

RAZZ

If you were at the excel you would know that the tv gives a closer view of a boxing match than 50 metres away in the seats. zuo won and retained his title.stop whinging:angry:

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Jingthing]

OK, I'm not a fight expert but this is how I saw the fight.

The crowd was understandably for Pongprayoon from the start.

That made sense. Pongprayoon was the underdog, smaller, younger, and the challenger of a champion few cared about in the crowd.

Pongprayoon from the beginning was a cleaner fighter. Zuo is clearly a masterful game player, pushing the limits of the rules at every chance. Totally different approaches.

The first two rounds, Zuo winning on points was believable.

The third round is the key here of course.

The warning against Zuo looked totally legit.

The warning against Pongprayoon looked very questionable.

Pongprayoon did appear to dominate on points but that is judgment call ... how many points?

If the warning on Pongprayoon didn't happen, Zuo would still have won on points based on how they scored it.

So on appearance, it did seem that Pongprayoon got a raw deal both on the warning call and the point scoring in the third round.

Not sure if asking for a review would have had any chance of changing the result or if an appeal has the potential to undo a warning penalty.

In any case, even though the anguish is understandable, in either case, it was still very close and all down to the third round and could have gone either way. Which means objectively it's not quite the obvious total steal that both the crowd and of course Thai fans think.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[TwoDogz]

JT...there was no slapping in that fight.

[Jingthing]

JT...there was no slapping in that fight.

Whatever. My point is that even though the crowd was booing (I would have booed too) that doesn't mean that OBJECTIVELY Zuo didn't win the fight. It is defensible that he did. Win or lose, objectively, it was very close, and someone had to win.

In other words, while the third round was a mess if the Thai boxer had actually won the first or second rounds, we wouldn't be talking about this, because he would have won. Now all he can do is bellyache.

Given all that, I still find the reaction of the Thai fighter and his non-Thai coach as not acting in the Olympic spirit or good sportsmanship in general.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Jingthing

[Rancid]

So much for jai yen.

A boxer with anger issues. Who could have known?

No doubt he would be be calmed by your kind words. Do you actually understand boxing or are there other sports that are more your specialty? By most accounts the Thai was robbed.

Exerpts from the Sydney Morning Herald (hardly a Thailand mouthpiece):

Boos ring round as another controversial decision mars Olympic boxing competition

Zou won a thoroughly ugly final 13-10, taking his Olympic medal tally to three after he won bronze in Athens and gold on home soil four years later. He pushed, rammed and at times almost tackled Pongprayoon, who was deducted two points in the first round for a non-specified offence.

Poor judging has unfortunately been a feature of the boxing in the men's draw at the Olympics. BBC's Newsnight program aired a story saying boxing insiders were suspicious of Olympic scoring amid suggestions Azerbaijan paid $9 million to the international boxing authorities in return for two golds.

American ringside callers, NBC's Teddy Atlas and Bob Papa, were two of the biggest critics, slamming the scoring at the Games before being asked to move to a broadcast booth further back because they were disturbing officials.

"Everyone here should look at themselves and realise why this sport is considered a joke at this point," Papa said on NBC."

[meand]

the judges gave the chinese fighter the last round 7-6 which was a total travesty as the thai fighter clearly won the last roundthe thai fighter should never have been given the public warning thus having two points deductedtherefore the fight should have been draw on points but for the thai fighter to lose 13-10 was a travesty of justicebut this what u get when inexperienced judges and refs are put in charge of fights

I;m not necessarily even disagreeing with you, but here is my take on this stuff. I guarantee you whenever it was that the boxers found out who was officiating, a strategy was planned out by the Chinese. They know, kinda like a good lawyer will, that the jidges and ref are the whole deal, and they set their whole gameplan accordingly, and probably a lot of research goes into all this.

On the other hand, when the Thais got the same information, they probably sat there and said something like "oh, that dude, ha" and then proceeded to tell the boxer to keep hitting a bag or something. This is where this stuff is won, and China, for whatever reason, is one of the only countries that seems to know this stuff. They are undeniably the best trained athletes in the world in my opinion. Whatever they tell those athletes to think and however they train them is a closely guarded secret for good reason... it is pure gold.

I will state without a doubt that if China had size and quickness the overall medals won in the olympics would be an absolute onslaught.... I mean it would just be ridiculous. They just so happen not to be gifted with the needed physicality in certain areas. That is just one man's opinion

Edited August 12, 2012 by meand

[Fozfromoz]

So much for jai yen.

A boxer with anger issues. Who could have known?

No doubt he would be be calmed by your kind words. Do you actually understand boxing or are there other sports that are more your specialty? By most accounts the Thai was robbed.

Exerpts from the Sydney Morning Herald (hardly a Thailand mouthpiece):

Boos ring round as another controversial decision mars Olympic boxing competition

Zou won a thoroughly ugly final 13-10, taking his Olympic medal tally to three after he won bronze in Athens and gold on home soil four years later. He pushed, rammed and at times almost tackled Pongprayoon, who was deducted two points in the first round for a non-specified offence.

Poor judging has unfortunately been a feature of the boxing in the men's draw at the Olympics. BBC's Newsnight program aired a story saying boxing insiders were suspicious of Olympic scoring amid suggestions Azerbaijan paid $9 million to the international boxing authorities in return for two golds.

American ringside callers, NBC's Teddy Atlas and Bob Papa, were two of the biggest critics, slamming the scoring at the Games before being asked to move to a broadcast booth further back because they were disturbing officials.

"Everyone here should look at themselves and realise why this sport is considered a joke at this point," Papa said on NBC."

JT already explained in an earlier post that he is not a boxing expert. He was just posting as he saw it. I am no expert either so hard to say. Fair to say there are probably more experts on here than a week ago.

However, injustices are experienced all around the world every day, and this includes sport. How that is dealt with on a world stage by a representative of a nation is what's seen and sticks out. The coach probably carried on more, but an old cliche, being humble when winning and gracious in defeat could have been reinforced.

It would be interesting what the expats in China think of it?

Cheers

[metisdead]

Earlier, a troll post trying to link this debacle to a former PM was removed. Now, comments on moderation have been removed as well as some other off topic posts.

[Jingthing]

One thing that bothers me is that this is AMATEUR boxing. It isn't the Olympics concern or the referees concern what seemed to me was the main reason this boxer acting out like a big Thai baby. I strongly felt it was about lost MONEY. Just my opinion. A silver medal isn't chopped liver if you are really in the games for noble reasons. Granted many athletes aren't but this boxer was more obvious about it than most. So he lost the big money. Boo hoo. That's his personal problem.

[beano2274]

One thing that bothers me is that this is AMATEUR boxing. It isn't the Olympics concern or the referees concern what seemed to me was the main reason this boxer acting out like a big Thai baby. I strongly felt it was about lost MONEY. Just my opinion. A silver medal isn't chopped liver if you are really in the games for noble reasons. Granted many athletes aren't but this boxer was more obvious about it than most. So he lost the big money. Boo hoo. That's his personal problem.

Exactly as I stated here earlier, was it the thought that he lost the Gold medal or 100 million baht and a promotion in the Army.

[thaicbr]

One thing that bothers me is that this is AMATEUR boxing. It isn't the Olympics concern or the referees concern what seemed to me was the main reason this boxer acting out like a big Thai baby. I strongly felt it was about lost MONEY. Just my opinion. A silver medal isn't chopped liver if you are really in the games for noble reasons. Granted many athletes aren't but this boxer was more obvious about it than most. So he lost the big money. Boo hoo. That's his personal problem.

I kinda disagree. The Chinese boxer ( or any Chinese athletes) cannot in the real sense be classified as AMATEUR in the sense that in China it is their job 24/7. Other athletes actually have main jobs so a certain amount of sponsorship is expected. My take is that he was mainly disappointed with not getting the gold. The Cuban coach was a dick.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

Edited August 12, 2012 by thaicbr

[ripstanley]

One thing that bothers me is that this is AMATEUR boxing. It isn't the Olympics concern or the referees concern what seemed to me was the main reason this boxer acting out like a big Thai baby. I strongly felt it was about lost MONEY. Just my opinion. A silver medal isn't chopped liver if you are really in the games for noble reasons. Granted many athletes aren't but this boxer was more obvious about it than most. So he lost the big money. Boo hoo. That's his personal problem.

I kinda disagree. The Chinese boxer ( or any Chinese athletes) cannot in the real sense be classified as AMATEUR in the sense that in China it is their job 24/7. Other athletes actually have main jobs so a certain amount of sponsorship is expected. My take is that he was mainly disappointed with not getting the gold. The Cuban coach was a dick.

sent from my Wellcom A90+

The amateur status of the olympics disappeared many games ago. They have allowed all professionals to play. Look at tennis. It is also what the countries governments put into their sports.

Edited August 12, 2012 by ripstanley

[Jingthing]

Well we can't know what was going on his head, but his outward behavior was childish and crass. There was another boxing event much earlier in the games where a Thai boxer also lost. I forget the details but the ending was really interesting. It was very close but it looked like at the end the Thai boxer had rallied and right after the fight before the winner call the Thai boxer was openly celebrating in a very cocky, presumptuous rather vulgar manner. I doubt the judges appreciated that behavior and it made me wonder if it made me wonder if it was possible that they had him lose a close fight to punish him for that. Not sure if that is technically possible but another case were a Thai athlete behaved in an embarrassing manner.

Edited August 12, 2012 by Jingthing