Rowdy Rally Forces Thaksin To Cancel Meeting In Los Angeles

[simple1]

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

I agree with your view that some Thai's living in a Western democracy have their eyes opened. However, based upon my experience in Australia , what does capture Thais attention is the transparency and general efficiency when dealing with government agencies with no tea money involved.

[Moruya]

Or simply shoe them away, boot-i-ful !

And that's how he treats his own supporters, let alone anyone who disagrees with him, no wonder he is lauded as a "Hero of the Grass-Roots" and "famous world statesman".

one would think it's high time he put a sock in it.

[visionchaser45]

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

So who are these Hi-So elite Thais that exploit Issanites by bringing them to the USA to work in their sweat shops?

There's lots of photos of the demonstrators posted throughout the three threads on this topic. Can you identify any of them as you describe?

Short of that, is there anything substantive to corroborate your rather bizarre claim?

Thai businesspeople in the U.S. exploit MEXICANS just like everyone else ...

Indeed they do. Both red and yellow Thai business people in the USA.

Certainly the American business people in the USA (never heard who) that Thaksin ostensibly went to the USA to meet and consult with are participants in that practice.

I was just intrigued by

As it is connected to the thread, it seemed to infer that the demonstrators in the USA were these Hi-So Thais and that the Issanites were the Red Shirts. If that was the case, there's the odd situation of having more employers than exploited employees.

.

"...the poster's bizarre tale of unnamed Hi-So Thais that are importing Issanites to exploit as unpaid employees in the USA." Either you can't read, or you are deliberately misrepresenting what I wrote. "...make their workers work long hours for substandard wages." Earning substandard wages is not the same as being "unpaid." I also never stated that that the hi-so Thais "import" Isaan people, although some do help make arrangements for them to come here. My statements may seem "bizarre" to you, but they are entirely accurate. Take them however you like.

[visionchaser45]

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

"How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so?" Why don't you go ask one? Head out to your local Thai restaurant, market, massage parlor, etc. and interview an Isaan employee. Perhaps your world is based on how things "seem," rather than on how things "are."

[philw]

How the Los Angeles Police Department saw things...

Er not really.It is a report (quite a good one) from Siam Town, the LA based channel for the Thai community in which, among other things, a rather impressive and long suffering office LAPD officer patiently explains the protest day's events.Interesting to see it's a rather patchily attended demo and also the references to redshirt contingent which I think you have accidentally forgotten to mention in your many many posts on this non-story.

I can think that the senior officer on the scene can speak for the department that he is a Sargent in.

Good to hear collaboration when he confirmed that there were no arrests that day, although Noppadon was announcing that there were 8 yellow shirts arrested.

"patchily attended" actually translates to several hundred. The Police Sargent says right in the video, "It was a large demonstration."

It was certainly a lot more patchily attended by the Red Shirts, which btw I've never neglected to mention. I've pointed to their impressive numbers of 20, 30, even 50 at their various events during the Great American Flop Tour 2012 several times.

Good to see the latest of your over 20 posts for this non-story.

.

One would have thought that officers knew how to spell ...................

If the link doesn't work google it.

https://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les%3B&gs_nf=1&tok=KyxYnDFTFiJcWnjyK4i3vw&pq=sargent%20officer&cp=10&gs_id=zh&xhr=t&q=sargent+spelling&pf=p&safe=off&biw=1047&bih=476&sclient=psy-ab&oq=sargent+sp&gs_l=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.&fp=d267490f5b66352e

[philw]

But back on topic, a baseball fan seems to be one of the very few people concerned about a Thai person visiting the USA.

It's not exactly a big story, is it.

The ogre has also been to London and Manchester, which is sufficiently removed from L'pool to be another planet.

[Reasonableman]

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks."

[GentlemanJim]

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

"How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so?" Why don't you go ask one? Head out to your local Thai restaurant, market, massage parlor, etc. and interview an Isaan employee. Perhaps your world is based on how things "seem," rather than on how things "are."

It's a shame how these Issaners always get exploited on substandard wages in the States and then Thaksin pitches up to speak to them and charges $200 per ticket to have a $8 dinner with him. I am sure all those reds that attended were poor Issaners.........not! And if they were, then I am sure the only 'hope' that the red stood for was 'I hope he gives me a refund'!

[visionchaser45]

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

"How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so?" Why don't you go ask one? Head out to your local Thai restaurant, market, massage parlor, etc. and interview an Isaan employee. Perhaps your world is based on how things "seem," rather than on how things "are."

It's a shame how these Issaners always get exploited on substandard wages in the States and then Thaksin pitches up to speak to them and charges $200 per ticket to have a $8 dinner with him. I am sure all those reds that attended were poor Issaners.........not! And if they were, then I am sure the only 'hope' that the red stood for was 'I hope he gives me a refund'!

Why do people act as though this is somehow an unusual state of affairs? Don't the Labor Party in the U.K. and the Democratic Party in the U.S. also claim to represent the poor and hold expensive fund raising dinners that those they purport to represent could never afford. It seems nothing more than politics as usual to me.

[OzMick]

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

"How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so?" Why don't you go ask one? Head out to your local Thai restaurant, market, massage parlor, etc. and interview an Isaan employee. Perhaps your world is based on how things "seem," rather than on how things "are."

I don't understand your point. I am on Samui and know a large number of locally employed Issaners, not one of whom has been offered a work visa to the USA, or could possible afford the airfare on their current wages. OTOH I do know of several who have married US citizens and now live there.

Are you suggesting that I should travel to the US to interview them? Or are you in the US and giving your perspective of a Thai situation? What ratio would you suggest reflects those relocated by marriage to those on "exploitation" work schemes?

[hellodolly]

visionchaser45

You say

"Why do people act as though this is somehow an unusual state of affairs? Don't the Labor Party in the U.K. and the Democratic Party in the U.S. also claim to represent the poor and hold expensive fund raising dinners that those they purport to represent could never

afford. It seems nothing more than politics as usual to me. "

Well what you say is true. In the spirit of the red shirt nonsense you neglect to mention that their opposition does it also.

O and one other thing they do it in their own country not half a world away.

[visionchaser45]

How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so? It would seem to me that most Issaners resident in US have come via Pattaya or some other tourist area and are now married to US citizens, and as such, their potential for being exploited is minimal. However, exposure to meaningful and realistic democracy is likely to turn them away from the parasitic hippocrites like Thaksin who lay claim to it.

Before you start swallowing the "hope of the people" hogwash, you should take a long hard look at the red leaders happily fattening their bank balances as they feed off the public tit, being very well paid for positions for which they have no experience, training or aptitude.

"How do dirt-poor Issaners get to the US to be exploited by hi-so?" Why don't you go ask one? Head out to your local Thai restaurant, market, massage parlor, etc. and interview an Isaan employee. Perhaps your world is based on how things "seem," rather than on how things "are."

I don't understand your point. I am on Samui and know a large number of locally employed Issaners, not one of whom has been offered a work visa to the USA, or could possible afford the airfare on their current wages. OTOH I do know of several who have married US citizens and now live there.

Are you suggesting that I should travel to the US to interview them? Or are you in the US and giving your perspective of a Thai situation? What ratio would you suggest reflects those relocated by marriage to those on "exploitation" work schemes?

"...Or are you in the US and giving your perspective of a Thai situation?" Because the article is about an incident involving Thaksin's visit to the U.S., I am commenting as someone currently in the U.S. on a situation involving Thais living here. I spend my time in both Thailand and the U.S., so I get a bit of both perspectives. When I am in Thailand, I am not staying on some touristy island in an expat enclave. I spend my time at our house in Kalasin, where there are very few farang.

Most Thais married to farang do not have to work, although some, like my wife, choose to do so out of boredom. Many Isaan people come here as part of a work program to do farm labor, then drop off the radar. Others borrow money and come on tourist visas. Hi-so Thais typically get here on an education or tourist visa. You will not find many hi-so Thais working in the kitchen or stockroom because it is below their "station" in life. In restaurants, you may find them serving and in markets they may cashier. Very few, if any, hi-so Thais are working in massage parlors. The majority of Thais in the U.S. who work for Thai owned businesses have expired visas and are not legally authorized to work in the U.S., which is why they are able to be exploited by the business owners.

[rubl]

" You will not find many hi-so Thais working in the kitchen or stockroom because it is below their "station" in life. "

If I remember correctly most if not all Thai 'hi-so' students also worked in the States while studying, like k. Thaksin, didn't he ?

Anyway, Thai who can afford to be seen and spent $200 on an event with k. Thaksin might not be your regular 'hiding on an expired visa' guy

[nidieunimaitre]

_hello.

_{i admit.}

_{i was stupid enough to contribute some posts to this thread.}

_{when it was started.}

_{i plead leniency for being an absolute idiot.}

_{what do you guys plead?}

[nidieunimaitre]

"The majority of Thais in the U.S. who work for Thai owned businesses have expired visas and are not legally authorized to work in the U.S., which is why they are able to be exploited by the business owner"

What???????? thais exploiting thais?????

Surely you are a red shirted communist supporting the ousted refugee?

Fidel pays you?

Voting Obama?

Wanting health care?

Against ' a bazooka, every home needs one' ?

Edited August 23, 2012 by nidieunimaitre

[scorecard]

visionchaser45, on Yesterday, 02:55 , said:

What many members fail to realize is that the same class war that is going on in Thailand also exists in the U.S. Hi-so Thais come here and start businesses. They continue their ways by exploiting cheap labor (mostly Isaan, but some illegal alien hispanics too) just like they did back home. They do not obey U.S. labor laws and make their workers work long hours for substandard wages. Until you understand the bitternesss that the majority feel toward the hi-so minority, you will never really understand the nature of this conflict. It is not just about money, it is the attitude the hi-so Thais have toward Isaan people; that they are somehow superior and the Isaan people are inferior and only there to serve them. The tables are turning and the hi-so people do not like the direction things are moving in. To an Isaan, red means hope for the future, a place at the table, a piece of the pie... The only way to stop it is to never hold another free election in Thailand, which the yellow shirts are certainly okay with.

Well you might like to note that most contributors here would readily agree that there is a huge gap between the rich and the poor, the poor (rural and urban) got a very rough deal and have done so for a long time, and there is a need for a lot of changes. No doubt whatever.

But you instantly says it's all the fault of the Hi-Sos. Well lets look at some other points:

- I have plenty of contact with Thais from all walks of life and I can assure you that many so called Hi-Sos readily agree that the poor and lower classes get a rough deal and they readily agree it should be fixed and now.

- The paymaster (the champion - the saviour) and his family are Hi-Sos and expect that they should be outside of the law.

- The udd / red leaders would also claim to be the champions of the poor, but what have they actually done in any structured way to approach or to start focused change? Nothing. When have any of these people, including the paymaster, ever given any specific lecture or presenation or distributed any detailed literature to detail what the objectives are and any step by step credible plans to achieve change? Never - nothing.

What specific legislation have they proposed to make 'share the wealth' an override of all future legislation so that 'sharing the wealth' becomes automatic - is the law.

- The paymaster, udd and red leaders all know very well that respect for the law and equal justice for all is a necessary foundation for civil society and for any sustained change. What have any of the folks done to show leadership and morals and to stand up and be counted in leading the way for respect for the law? Nothing - zero. In fact in the recent past there have been numerous examples where they could have used current cases to push these points - they haven't.

- You say the Hi-Sos are to blame, that's pretty much the same as saying the rich are to blame. Well what about the pt / trt etc., politicians (and other parties too) who have somehow found their way to the feeding trough and now live in mansions in essan with multiple expensive cars etc, Do they share the wealth? NO! In fact there are many cases where these 'new rich' are just as bad as anybody else in the way they treat the poor.

Have these politicians pushed hard to demand better schools etc., in their electorates? NO. Do they regularly give presentations which display and prove that they have high morals? NO, NO, and NO!

Why not? Simple answer. they have joined the paymasters corporation, it's called 'The get rich quick club', only qualifications needed is lack of morals and shut your mouth, just say 'yes' or 'no' when prompted.

- You say that it's Hi-Sos who bring Thai workers to the US then abuse them. Is that fully truthful? NO. There have been dozens of labour scams (sending labour to many countries) uncovered in the past 3 decades that I'm aware of. Many of them organized by immoral Thais who are not Hi-Sos, plus highly immoral corrupt government officials at high and low levels within the civil service, these folks are not Hi-Sos.

- What has trt / pt etc., (and other parties also) actually done in terms of better education which would provide the workers of this great country the capability to do higher value work and therefore earn enough to live a much better quality of life? Nothing whatever.

- I suggest you do a little more research about what drives the yellow shirts, many would agree there is a strong need for change.

You can criticize sonthi in all sorts of ways, but there is no doubt that he pushed to remove a highly corrupt man who was out of control and prettty much destroyed the check and balance processes which protect civil society. His aim (and he was achieving it) was to get his own relatives into high positions - control, and to make his family and crones rich. No connection whatever to improving the lot of the poor.

I say again, the rural and urban poor do get a very rough deal, the gap is way too big, and they don't get fair justice, But I will never agree that the red cause is a credible structured force for change. What I would agree is that the poor reds are being totally manipulated.

[Thaddeus]

Why do people act as though this is somehow an unusual state of affairs? Don't the Labor Party in the U.K. and the Democratic Party in the U.S. also claim to represent the poor and hold expensive fund raising dinners that those they purport to represent could never afford. It seems nothing more than politics as usual to me.

Mick Hucknall and Bono could probably divert that question....... millionaire socialists, thin on the ground aren't they.

[visionchaser45]

I just call them like I see them. If you want to understand the overwhelming support for the red shirts, you have to understand the class war too. I would like to add that I speak of Isaan people and hi-so Thais in general terms; that is, on the average. There are certainly many people on both sides who do not conform to the stereotype. Democracy allows people to vote for those they believe represent their best interests. That belief may not always be accurate (like American Democrats who vote for Obama). When, however, that power is wrested away via military coups or court wranglings, the people are likely to become aroused. To deny them a place at the table will only push them in a more extreme direction; perhaps the communist direction others have mentioned. When you have nothing and have been ignorded for centuries and someone comes along and pays attention and tosses you some crumbs from the table, what do you expect will happen? The Sondhi crowd will get nowhere with the marginalized majority by suggesting that they are "too stupid and unsophisticated" to be entrusted with the vote. FFT

Edited August 23, 2012 by visionchaser45

[Ricardo]

Why do people act as though this is somehow an unusual state of affairs? Don't the Labor Party in the U.K. and the Democratic Party in the U.S. also claim to represent the poor and hold expensive fund raising dinners that those they purport to represent could never afford. It seems nothing more than politics as usual to me.

Fair point that active-politicians often hold this sort of bun-fight for their supporters, to raise money for their next campaign.

However I wonder whether Thaksin's visa was for a two-week private visit, or for a two-week political fund-raising tour, and if so who did he claim he would be raising the money for ?

Himself, since he recently claimed in South Korea to be worth under $1 million, not that I would accept this latest assertion ?

Or his sister's political-party, or the UDD/DAAD, or (perhaps more acceptable if so) for some worthy & financially-transparent charity ?

But then again, since he famously "Quit Thai Politics" several years ago, it cannot be "politics as usual" after all, can it ?

[BKKdreaming]

I am in Los Angeles and this got NO local press that I heard , the LA area has 10-15 million people so a few hundred protesting does not amount to much !

As far as Issan workers in Los Angeles , How did they get a Visa ? Even a tourist visa is hard to get if you do not have money and property in Thailand ,

I wish there were more Thais around my area , too many white people like me

BK

[ballpoint]

"...Or are you in the US and giving your perspective of a Thai situation?" Because the article is about an incident involving Thaksin's visit to the U.S., I am commenting as someone currently in the U.S. on a situation involving Thais living here. I spend my time in both Thailand and the U.S., so I get a bit of both perspectives. When I am in Thailand, I am not staying on some touristy island in an expat enclave. I spend my time at our house in Kalasin, where there are very few farang.

Most Thais married to farang do not have to work, although some, like my wife, choose to do so out of boredom. Many Isaan people come here as part of a work program to do farm labor, then drop off the radar. Others borrow money and come on tourist visas. Hi-so Thais typically get here on an education or tourist visa. You will not find many hi-so Thais working in the kitchen or stockroom because it is below their "station" in life. In restaurants, you may find them serving and in markets they may cashier. Very few, if any, hi-so Thais are working in massage parlors. The majority of Thais in the U.S. who work for Thai owned businesses have expired visas and are not legally authorized to work in the U.S., which is why they are able to be exploited by the business owners.

I see. Thaksin was charging $200 a ticket to speak at a bunch of restaurants owned by rich Thais who are exploiting poor Thais. Thanks for clearing that up.

[scorecard]

I just call them like I see them. If you want to understand the overwhelming support for the red shirts, you have to understand the class war too. I would like to add that I speak of Isaan people and hi-so Thais in general terms; that is, on the average. There are certainly many people on both sides who do not conform to the stereotype. Democracy allows people to vote for those they believe represent their best interests. That belief may not always be accurate (like American Democrats who vote for Obama). When, however, that power is wrested away via military coups or court wranglings, the people are likely to become aroused. To deny them a place at the table will only push them in a more extreme direction; perhaps the communist direction others have mentioned. When you have nothing and have been ignorded for centuries and someone comes along and pays attention and tosses you some crumbs from the table, what do you expect will happen? The Sondhi crowd will get nowhere with the marginalized majority by suggesting that they are "too stupid and unsophisticated" to be entrusted with the vote. FFT

Quote from above: When you have nothing and have been ignorded for centuries and someone comes along and pays attention and tosses you some crumbs from the table, what do you expect will happen?

I, like anybody would hope that the person throwing the crumbs is genuine and sincere and hope that this is the start of sustained change.

But is that what's really happening? NO!

There is little doubt in my mind that the 'crumbs' are nothing more than a ruthless and nasty strategy to buy their votes.

In reality what have the crumbs been, over some 10 + years?

- Some cash, but in reality very very minimal.

- Deals on mobile phones etc from the village fund. Nothing more than building the paymasters original customer base. And please note that in that era special phone cards were on sale, just 20Baht, deliberately low to be within the stretch of the poor.

- More debt for farmers.

- Promises of 300Baht min. wage, still not implemented in 85% of the provinces and the puppet has indictaed three years for full implementation - a broken promise (and promise is a serious word).

- 15,000Baht start salary for new grads. Implemented with great confusion and lack of sincerity by some gov't agencies, along with quick deciions to give lots of other gov't workers top up allownces so they get equal money. In terms of private enterprise, total confusion and it's all been put in the dark too hard cupboard - a broken promise (and promise is a serious word).

As perhaps a better example, talk to a few taxi drivers, some love the paymaster and probably always will, their right and their choice. But you can now find taxi drivers who will tell you very clearly that they now realize they were conned. Lots of promises of cheap loans to buy cars, lucky draws for free cars and houses for taxi drivers. None of this ever happened - nothing.

Another quote from above: ' I would like to add that I speak of Isaan people and hi-so Thais in general terms; that is, on the average.' That interprets to 'Hi-Sos on the average are bad'. Is that what your saying? If you believe some are good and some are bad, then why didn't you say that to be honest? Sounds like a squirm attempt to me.

I wonder if you believe those on these threads who write in opposition to the red smokescreen cause are stupid. Perhaps you should think again, there are many contributors here who have shared deep and clear insights into why they are negative. And that's not meaning they hate the poor or anything similar. Perhaps you need to read a bit more.

Quote from above: 'When, however, that power is wrested away via military coups or court wranglings, the people are likely to become aroused.' Sounds like a great statement, but needs some analysis. Given the history of this great country and the role of the military (different to other countries as is the history of all countries), are you really surprised that from time to time there are generals who genueinly (IMHO) play watchdog? The rural poor have for centuries looked to various authority figures / institutions to protect them.

They are aroused? Aroused to what? Democracy and what it really means and how it works? I think not, and that's not a veiled statement to suggest they are stupid or anything similar.

I'm not suggesting this should continue forever and I sincerely hope that Thailand gets closer to operating within pure democratic principles and processes as quickly as possible.

They are aroused? Aroused to what? Democracy and what it really means and how it works? I think not, and that's not a veiled statement to suggest they are stupid or anything similar.

Court wranglings: Well that's a multi facted item. Some Hi-Sos clearly believe that they have the right to ignore the law and to just change the law for their own massive monetary benefits - no need to give examples, many right before your eyes including a current deputy PM. Also true that many Thais at all levels don't want to recocnize laws and hope that they can somehow get someone influential to help them out of a spot when needed. In other words, no respect for the law, at all levels.

The so called saviour had his lawyer minions try to influence justice to there liking by giving court officials a donot box with 3m / 5m Baht in cash. The lawyers went to jail for six months. This all about the man who says he's the champion of the poor and wants equal and fair justice for all!

Dishonest manipulations and smokscreens, nothing more nothing less.

Edited August 24, 2012 by scorecard

[OzMick]

I just call them like I see them. If you want to understand the overwhelming support for the red shirts, you have to understand the class war too. I would like to add that I speak of Isaan people and hi-so Thais in general terms; that is, on the average. There are certainly many people on both sides who do not conform to the stereotype. Democracy allows people to vote for those they believe represent their best interests. That belief may not always be accurate (like American Democrats who vote for Obama). When, however, that power is wrested away via military coups or court wranglings, the people are likely to become aroused. To deny them a place at the table will only push them in a more extreme direction; perhaps the communist direction others have mentioned. When you have nothing and have been ignorded for centuries and someone comes along and pays attention and tosses you some crumbs from the table, what do you expect will happen? The Sondhi crowd will get nowhere with the marginalized majority by suggesting that they are "too stupid and unsophisticated" to be entrusted with the vote. FFT

Why isn't " the overwhelming support for the red shirts" reflected in the numbers there, or here? Is it only seen through red glasses?

BTW Samui is not only a "tourist enclave". The vast majority of the population here are Issan Thai attracted by the higher wages, business opportunities and better living conditions. I'm sure that I get a broader perspective talking to them, and travelling around the country by bike and public transport, than that of Kalasin Kool-aid drinkers

[metisdead]

There's <snipping> a post to highlight parts of a post in which you would like to respond to which is acceptable as long as it not meant to "take the piss". Then there is editing a post in a method in which the post is then distorted or misrepresented which is not acceptable. Posts have been removed.

[visionchaser45]

"Why isn't " the overwhelming support for the red shirts" reflected in the numbers there, or here? Is it only seen through red glasses?" It is certainly reflected in the polls in Thailand and the red supporters in the U.S. are only less vocal because the yellow supporters control their livlihood.

[Skywalker69]

"The vast majority of the population here are Issan Thai attracted by the higher wages, business opportunities and better living conditions." You had better check again because the "vast majority" of Thais on Samui are from south Thailand.

"I'm sure that I get a broader perspective talking to them..." Jao wow Isaan bor? I'm sure you have many long and meaningful conversations with Isaan people on Samui.

Come on, there is a lot of Isaan girls (อีสาน) both on on Samui as well on Phuket. Edited August 24, 2012 by Skywalker69

[metisdead]

An off topic post containing Thai language has been removed.

[Insight]

"Why isn't " the overwhelming support for the red shirts" reflected in the numbers there, or here? Is it only seen through red glasses?" It is certainly reflected in the polls in Thailand and the red supporters in the U.S. are only less vocal because the yellow supporters control their livlihood.

This is a "vision" in need of some serious chasing.

Any concrete evidence you can provide of this overseas oppression of the reds from these so-called "yellow supporters"?

My own opinion is that these protesters make up the majority of Thai expats, who are "velly educated" enough to understand exactly what Thaksin's end game is.

[Thai at Heart]

Published on Aug 13, 2012 by mandalayla

Thaksin Shinawatra was forced to cancel a dinner and talk with red shirts on Sunday night in Thai Town Los Angeles after over 1000 protesters gather in front of Thailand Plaza Restaurant. The gathering was peaceful. According to Siam Town USA, Thaksin's supporters had to pay $200 ticket to have live dinner with Thaksin. There was no sign of Thaksin, instead of meeting Mr. Thaksin, the dinner guests got booed instead as they left the restaurant.

How much did that cost the American Tax Payer for Authorities to protect diners from this aggresive MOB? He must have the support of the U.S if they grant him a visa and provide tax payer funded security.

As the protest was verbal and not violent, the police presence from LAPD there was minimal. As there was no need for extra policemen or payment of overtime, I would imagine that it didn't cost the American taxpayers a penny over what is normally expended for the policemen on that shift. If anything additional was spent, it was most likely less than a single dinner reservation to hear Thaksin speak (or not speak, as it were).

.

.

Could have been good tv and a very informative show for the Thai police if they had caused a problem though.

[Thai at Heart]

"Why isn't " the overwhelming support for the red shirts" reflected in the numbers there, or here? Is it only seen through red glasses?" It is certainly reflected in the polls in Thailand and the red supporters in the U.S. are only less vocal because the yellow supporters control their livlihood.

This is a "vision" in need of some serious chasing.

Any concrete evidence you can provide of this overseas oppression of the reds from these so-called "yellow supporters"?

My own opinion is that these protesters make up the majority of Thai expats, who are "velly educated" enough to understand exactly what Thaksin's end game is.

Both red and yellows are mere sheep in a larger story.