Visa For Thaksin Issued Under U.S. Laws: U.S. Ambassador Kristie Kenney

[aaacorp]

A part of the TREATY BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA RELATING TO EXTRADITION can be found here

http://www.thailawfo...of-America.html

For immediate reaction this part may explain questions some of you may have

ARTICLE 3

Political and Military Offenses

(1) Extradition shall not be granted when:

(a) the offense for which extradition is sought is a political offense ;

or

(b ) it is established that extradition is requested for political purposes

; or

© the offense for which extradition is sought is exclusively a

military offense.[/font]

Maybe that s the reason why Thaksin can travel in many countries without any problems if the extraditions agreements are the same and why Interpol didn t issued a red notice against him[/font]

Edited August 14, 2012 by aaacorp

[scotbeve]

Is she joking or what ? I know people who have been refused visas into the US because they have traffic violations against their name. Hahaha. Joke.

So... to all you war correspondents on here, did you find any wikileaks info or something of that sort of info which states or implies irregularities in the issuance of Thaksins US visa?

Why don't you look for that yourself?

Hint:

http://travel.state..../visa_1750.html

Sorry, I may have missed something again here.... Re: irregularities in the issuance of Thaksins US visa... Couldn't find any info of any irregularities....

[waza]

The issuing of a visa for Thaksin, a convicted criminal and fugitive from justice, may be questionably legal but its unquestionably an immoral decision

[airconsult]

In many times over the threads it has been noted that there has NEVER been an international red flag issued by Interpol. The reason stated by Interpol is that they refuse to be involved in "political" matters.

Again - whatever crimes you believe he has committed - what he has been convicted of is that he signed his name (according to the law) to his wife's purchase of land. She was the highest bidder for that land - hence the sale. Since the court decision - she has been granted compensation for that land being seized back by the state. (plus 10% pa)

Please - I have seen a few comments where people allege Mr T used his influence to lower the price - stop spreading lies!

According to the law - yes - he should not have signed the transfer as he was a government official with influence - but at the same time, the law demanded that the spouse sign the transfer.

I know many on this board will crucify me for pointing this out again - but it is worth it to remind the newcomers.

Cheers

Edited August 14, 2012 by airconsult

[hellodolly]

I can understand why the USA isn't extraditing if the current Thai government isn't asking for that (why would they, the PM is his sister in case you didn't know ) but I don't approve of the special treatment for the granting of the visa. Considering how many law abiding Thais are denied tourist visas to the USA, this is a sickening display of hypocrisy. Who can possibly believe that the USA government didn't know there was a huge political implication to allowing his visit? Who can possibly believe that the USA government thought he was coming to the USA for an innocent tourism holiday?

Simple answer. The same people who believed they could win a war in Viet Nam. Iraq and Afghanistan.

Need I say more.

[hellodolly]

Thaksin is the one who got elected. He is only a criminal of the Govt who illegally overthrew the freely elected old Govt. I don't much care one way or the other, but that's the way I see it. I really don't know but I guess he is kind of a leftist, a populist, and we all know where that ends up, bankruptcy every time, and the US is on the same path if things don't change fast. However Thailand is not the US. Woman and older people simple will not get certain jobs. The barriers are higher to advance for most of the country. So it surprises me to hear myself say this, but for Thailand, some wealth re-distribution may be a good thing.

"However Thailand is not the US. Woman and older people simple will not get certain jobs. "

1. Thaksin got elected but was not P.M. when the coup occurred in 2006. fact.

2. Thaksin IS a criminal. Bail jumping is a crime. fact.

3. Yingluck Shinawatra , who we believe is a woman, is Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand. fact.

4. Wealth distribution is getting more unlikely as the government seems bent on bankrupting Thailand. fact.

P.S. Let us know when the Untied States of America elects its first female president.

I like how you write 'fact' at the end of your opinions. false.

Which one? Or all?

Thanks.

I am with mamypoko on this.

3. Yingluck Shinawatra , who we believe is a woman, is Prime Minister of the Kingdom of Thailand. fact.

I have often wondered how a man could have a clone who is a women.

Like mamypoko says Yingluck could well be a man.

[hellodolly]

To defend the ambassador a little bit, I seriously doubt that SHE made this call and she is only doing her diplomatic job in defending it. Doesn't mean she is telling the truth ... obviously.

Precisely ! Now then where is Assange and Wiki leaks to uncover what the US state Department really think? ...oh bugger!

It is slightly amusing that The Ambassador says that the issue of a visa was not a political matter, as it clearly was. It is well known that Thaksin is a convicted fugitive criminal. By issuing a visa there can only be one process really, and that is that the US are not recognising the court decision because of the (incorrectly) perceived politics that may have surrounded it. Therefore whichever way you look at it, the decision to issue a visa is wholly a political decision, either that or precedent has just been set that known criminals with serious criminal charges against them, who are on the run are entitled to a visa to enter the USA. I don't think it is the latter option, so it must be political.

Kind of interesting she says it was not a political thing and he says the charges against him were.

[aaacorp]

The

To defend the ambassador a little bit, I seriously doubt that SHE made this call and she is only doing her diplomatic job in defending it. Doesn't mean she is telling the truth ... obviously.

Precisely ! Now then where is Assange and Wiki leaks to uncover what the US state Department really think? ...oh bugger!

It is slightly amusing that The Ambassador says that the issue of a visa was not a political matter, as it clearly was. It is well known that Thaksin is a convicted fugitive criminal. By issuing a visa there can only be one process really, and that is that the US are not recognising the court decision because of the (incorrectly) perceived politics that may have surrounded it. Therefore whichever way you look at it, the decision to issue a visa is wholly a political decision, either that or precedent has just been set that known criminals with serious criminal charges against them, who are on the run are entitled to a visa to enter the USA. I don't think it is the latter option, so it must be political.

Kind of interesting she says it was not a political thing and he says the charges against him were.

I think the point is arresting Thaksin could be used as a political tool by one side and more probably both sides in thai politics, not that Thaksin is convicted of political charges...

What consequences would have a US extradition of Thaksin in Thailand? I ask the question seriously: what immediate consequences this act may have on interior politics in thailand?

more than one scenrio comes to my mind and none of them sounds really peacefull

[gk10002000]

Well, first of all, the current government in Thailand is not legitimate. It began as an illegal military coup, that disregarded and threw away the constitution. I personally was surprised at how quickly the USA accepted the military coup in 2006 and how little was made of it in the US.

[KeyserSoze01]

... Never mind. Not worth the effort...

Edited August 14, 2012 by KeyserSoze01

[kmj]

maybe the US just wants to keep in with a future political leader.

[webfact]

THAKSIN IN USA

Politics not involved in visa given to Thaksin: US

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The issuing of a visa for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was done under United States laws and had no bearing on domestic politics in Thailand, US Ambassador Kristie Kenney said yesterday.

Commenting on Thaksin's ongoing visit to the US, Kenney said every year some 50,000 Thai citizens receive visas granted in strict compliance with existing laws and regulations.

She said the US was honoured to have bilateral cooperation with Thailand on extradition and criminal assistance. She noted that the US had always responded to Thai government requests made under the two legal agreements, hinting that there had been no extradition request in Thaksin's case.

She ruled out any adverse implications, saying the visa granted to Thaksin was not a political issue.

In a related development, Democrat MP Thepthai Senapong said protests by Thai expatriates were proof that Thaksin's visit to the US was not smooth, as had been claimed by his legal adviser Noppadon Pattama.

"I view the protests as a snub intended for the government because Thaksin is a fugitive but the authorities have neglected to bring him back to serve his jail term," he said.

Thepthai said the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, the Office of the Attorney-General and the Royal Thai Police had collectively failed to do their job by issuing an extradition request for Thaksin.

"Thaksin is not staying in the US for just one or two days, therefore this is inexcusable for not knowing his address," he said in reference to an alert about his whereabouts - so US authorities can arrest the fugitive PM and send him back.

Multi-coloured shirt group leader Tul Sithisomwong led some 25 protesters in a rally in front of the US Embassy to voice opposition to Thaksin being allowed to enter the US. Tul said he wanted an explanation for why the US allowed the fugitive Thaksin to enter despite signing an extradition treaty in 1990.

-- The Nation 2012-08-15

[LuckyLew]

I guess you people are not aware of the unwritten rule that

says anyone with a <deleted> load of money can get a visa to

visit the USA

[whybother]

A part of the TREATY BETWEEN THE GOVERNMENT OF THE KINGDOM OF THAILAND AND THE GOVERNMENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA RELATING TO EXTRADITION can be found here

http://www.thailawfo...of-America.html

For immediate reaction this part may explain questions some of you may have

ARTICLE 3

Political and Military Offenses

(1) Extradition shall not be granted when:

(a) the offense for which extradition is sought is a political offense ;

or

(b ) it is established that extradition is requested for political purposes

; or

the offense for which extradition is sought is exclusively a

military offense.[/font]

Maybe that s the reason why Thaksin can travel in many countries without any problems if the extraditions agreements are the same and why Interpol didn t issued a red notice against him[/font]

I think the key point that isn't there is: Extradition won't be granted if it isn't asked for.

Sent from my HTC phone.

[whybother]

In many times over the threads it has been noted that there has NEVER been an international red flag issued by Interpol. The reason stated by Interpol is that they refuse to be involved in "political" matters.

Again - whatever crimes you believe he has committed - what he has been convicted of is that he signed his name (according to the law) to his wife's purchase of land. She was the highest bidder for that land - hence the sale. Since the court decision - she has been granted compensation for that land being seized back by the state. (plus 10% pa)

Please - I have seen a few comments where people allege Mr T used his influence to lower the price - stop spreading lies!

According to the law - yes - he should not have signed the transfer as he was a government official with influence - but at the same time, the law demanded that the spouse sign the transfer.

I know many on this board will crucify me for pointing this out again - but it is worth it to remind the newcomers.

Cheers

As you said, according to law, he shouldn't have signed it, so clearly he broke the law. Case closed.

She shouldn't have even been bidding for the land because of his position, so using the excuse of "by law he had to sign" is irrelevant.

Sent from my HTC phone.

Edited August 15, 2012 by whybother

[maidu]

Surprised he was issued a visa. Since all politicians are whores...

As a friend of whores, I take offense at that statement.

The good-intentioned US Ambassador is relatively new at her post, so perhaps is not expected to know a whole lot about the inner workings of Thai politics. Perhaps she can use that as an excuse for saying the decision (to grant T a visa) had nothing to do with politics. Better if she had not mentioned the politicial card. As she did, she makes herself look like she's been co-opted by the Shinawatre ruse - hook, line and sinker.

Maybe she skipped school the day they read the story of 'The Emporer's New Clothes'

Edited August 15, 2012 by maidu

[Orac]

Surprised he was issued a visa. Since all politicians are whores...

As a friend of whores, I take offense at that statement.

The good-intentioned US Ambassador is relatively new at her post, so perhaps is not expected to know a whole lot about the inner workings of Thai politics. Perhaps she can use that as an excuse for saying the decision (to grant T a visa) had nothing to do with politics. Better if she had not mentioned the politicial card. As she did, she makes herself look like she's been co-opted by the Shinawatre ruse - hook, line and sinker.

Maybe she skipped school the day they read the story of 'The Emporer's New Clothes'

Maybe you should suggest to her that she joins TV so she can be fully informed about what is going on in Thailand.

Seriously though, to suggest the US ambassador to Thailand is ill informed about the inner workings of Thai politics is a ridiculous statement to make. The in depth instruction she will have had before taking the post along with the private one on one meetings she will have had with all the top players in the game, all keen to curry favour with the US, will probably make her better informed on the current situation than just about any foreigner out there.

[Buchholz]

Politics not involved in visa given to Thaksin : US Ambassador

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- The issuing of a visa for former prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra was done under United States laws and had no bearing on domestic politics in Thailand, US Ambassador Kristie Kenney said Tuesday.

Commenting on Thaksin's ongoing visit to the US, Kenney said every year some 50,000 Thai citizens receive visas granted in strict compliance with existing laws and regulations.

She made her comments above during a press conference after having held a discussion with this fella, who may or may not be acceptable to receive a USA visa in his own right.

Thai Rath (article in Thai)

http://m.thairath.co.th/content/pol/283518

[moe666]

I didn't know the US Embassy in Bangkok had so many employees who spent most of their off time on Thaivisa. Each of you must work at the Embassy in the vsa section as you know so much about the process used to make decisions. Didn't BigT get his visa in Dubai as that is where he is located.

[phiphidon]

I'm no fan of Thaksin, but the fact remains he was a democratically elected PM who was illegally ousted from power by a military coup, whose protagonists then went on to grant themselves amnesties.

Is it any wonder the politically-sophisticated world doesn't see it through Thai-tinted spectacles? Nor many Thais either.

Thaksin resigned, he didn´t manage to form a coalition, during the coup he was a illegal "Caretaker Premier". He didn´t want to let go of power.

Read the link from The Guardian.

http://www.guardian....!--NoParse10-->

Thaksin did not resign. He wasn't an illegal caretaker premier during the coup. You might be right in the statement that he didn't want to let go of power. Keep on reading, if possible not only the Guardian...........................

[webfact]

RT @tulsathit: A Matichon article suggests Thaksin visa indicates US belief his case is political. It doesn't address the "why now?" question, though.

[Caliguy]

Doesn't the US consider this a case of "Political Persecution"? If so, then he can be granted entrance to the the US, as its not considered a normal criminal conviction.

[coma]

Is she joking or what ? I know people who have been refused visas into the US because they have traffic violations against their name. Hahaha. Joke.

So... to all you war correspondents on here, did you find any wikileaks info or something of that sort of info which states or implies irregularities in the issuance of Thaksins US visa?

lol !

[animatic]

What a ridiculous claim by the Ambassador. Where in the Law does it state convicted bail jumping criminals from any nation can get visas? Politics has nothing to do with it. Obviously US Govt is hedging their bets towards a claim on Utapao and getting their "weather observation" post established to support their paranoia against China's future dominance. What a croc. I mean, do the Americans think the rest of the world actually believe anything the US says these days? Talk about 'damage control' by issue of such a lame statement.

But they must have a request from the government where it happened to act on it.

Even if there once was one in the greater world, once his family took power that was then rescinded,

and so there is 'no current standing request government to government for his arrest and extradition'.

That is all that matters. There should be, but we know why it is not.

But note, it DID take a full year after buying back into power again, before he dared try this stunt.

Matichon can suggest what it likes,

but it is purely a legal stand point of no current request gov. to gov.

Edited August 15, 2012 by animatic

[Orac]

What a ridiculous claim by the Ambassador. Where in the Law does it state convicted bail jumping criminals from any nation can get visas? Politics has nothing to do with it. Obviously US Govt is hedging their bets towards a claim on Utapao and getting their "weather observation" post established to support their paranoia against China's future dominance. What a croc. I mean, do the Americans think the rest of the world actually believe anything the US says these days? Talk about 'damage control' by issue of such a lame statement.

But they must have a request from the government where it happened to act on it.

Even if there once was one in the greater world, once his family took power that was then rescinded,

and so there is 'no current standing request government to government for his arrest and extradition'.

That is all that matters. There should be, but we know why it is not.

But note, it DID take a full year after buying back into power again, before he dared try this stunt.

Matichon can suggest what it likes,

but it is purely a legal stand point of no current request gov. to gov.

You provide no proof that a gov to gov request ever existed yet claim the this same request was rescinded by the current government. It has already been admitted that no red notice/international arrest warrant was issued so the assumption that the current government had to do anything is a stretch.

[intothefuture]

As an American Citizen, I am embarrassed by our US government's groveling at the feet of Thaksin.

The fact is that he is a convicted criminal, who jumped bail. That is a fact. And there is no way under US law he should be granted a visa...unless higher ups in the Immigration Dept approved it and told the lower grade officers to give him a visa. Despicable in my view. He has no right to enter our country. He is a convict. He was tried by the Thai judicial system, not by the coup makers. His wife, with Thaksin's written permission, was given the special right to buy a huge tract of valuable government property near Suvarnabhumi Airport, just before the government auctioned the land, at a huge discount. Classic corruption....as was Thaksin's arrogant style. Those were the types of things that got him thrown out of power. His buying his way back into power.... by funding huge sums of money to Puy yai bans, Orbortors, MP's, etc through out the northeast and north....is common knowledge...not even disputed. But the US government decides to play sides and act like this was just a political prosecution and a political injustice. Embarrassing...for me.

[moto77]

Waivers of Ineligibility

• Nonimmigrant Visas:
  The INA provides for waivers of ineligibility for visas and inadmissibility to the US for most nonimmigrant visa classifications. The statute confers upon consular officers and the Secretary of State the important discretionary function of recommending waivers of ineligibility to DHS which has sole authority for granting or denying waivers. If a waiver is not recommended to DHS, a waiver may not be granted and the nonimmigrant visa sought may not be issued.
  In deciding whether or not to recommend a waiver, consular officers are instructed to consider the following factors, amongst others;
• 
  
  • The recency and seriousness of the activity or condition resulting in the alien’s inadmissibility;
    
  • The reasons for the proposed travel to the US; and
    
  • Any effect, positive or negative, of the planned travel on US public interests.
    

[intothefuture]

It's one thing to not extradite him, given the required cooperation of the host Country Thailand...which certainly would not cooperate, given Yingluck is PM..... it is entirely another to give the criminal a US visa... ostensibly telling the world that we (Americans) believe that his conviction was political and not real.

[drdoom6996]

As an American Citizen, I am embarrassed by our US government's groveling at the feet of Thaksin.

The fact is that he is a convicted criminal, who jumped bail. That is a fact. And there is no way under US law he should be granted a visa...unless higher ups in the Immigration Dept approved it and told the lower grade officers to give him a visa. Despicable in my view. He has no right to enter our country. He is a convict. He was tried by the Thai judicial system, not by the coup makers. His wife, with Thaksin's written permission, was given the special right to buy a huge tract of valuable government property near Suvarnabhumi Airport, just before the government auctioned the land, at a huge discount. Classic corruption....as was Thaksin's arrogant style. Those were the types of things that got him thrown out of power. His buying his way back into power.... by funding huge sums of money to Puy yai bans, Orbortors, MP's, etc through out the northeast and north....is common knowledge...not even disputed. But the US government decides to play sides and act like this was just a political prosecution and a political injustice. Embarrassing...for me.

Me Too

[waza]

I'm no fan of Thaksin, but the fact remains he was a democratically elected PM who was illegally ousted from power by a military coup, whose protagonists then went on to grant themselves amnesties.

Is it any wonder the politically-sophisticated world doesn't see it through Thai-tinted spectacles? Nor many Thais either.

Thaksin resigned, he didn´t manage to form a coalition, during the coup he was a illegal "Caretaker Premier". He didn´t want to let go of power.

Read the link from The Guardian.

http://www.guardian....!--NoParse10-->

Thaksin did not resign. He wasn't an illegal caretaker premier during the coup. You might be right in the statement that he didn't want to let go of power. Keep on reading, if possible not only the Guardian...........................

I dont need to read it, PhiPhidon, I lived it.

April 5 2006 (Bloomberg) -- Thai Prime Minister Thaksin Shinawatra said he will step down as premier after his declared victory in a weekend election failed to resolve a political standoff that crippled his government.

Thaksin, 56, speaking in a live television broadcast in Bangkok late yesterday, said he will stay on as interim prime minister until a new leader is chosen, after meeting with the country's King Bhumibol Adulyadej. Thaksin said he will retain his leadership of the Thai Rak Thai party and remain a member of parliament. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=atKOkbTLyoeo&refer=top_world_news

6 months later............

20 September 2006

Military leaders in Thailand have staged a coup, suspended the constitution and declared martial law.

Opposition Senator Mechai Viravaidya welcomed Mr Thaksin's departure, despite doubts about the methods used.

"I'm delighted he's gone," he said. "It would have been great if he had resigned voluntarily, but apparently he was too stubborn. But at least it's better than an assassination."

Tue Oct 3, 2006 8:22pm AEST

Deposed Thai prime minister, Thaksin Shinawatra, has resigned as head of his Thai Rak Thai party, triggering the dissolution of its entire executive in the wake of the military coup last month. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2006-10-03/thaksin-resigns-as-party-leader/2685904

Edited August 15, 2012 by waza