Ram International Hospital (an Experience)

[likite]

I paid my first visit to Ram hospital today following concerns about a persistent chest ache.

Since settling in Chiang Mai my overall impression gleaned from various sources was how good Ram Hospital was. Expensive with up to date treatments and good standards of care and service, as befits a top Thai hospital catering for farangs and Thai’s alike.

However my experience today was not very favourable. We arrived in the main building (myself and my Thai wife) and after casting our eye around considered the best place to present myself was at the information counter. There many staff were busy moving files and pieces of paper around, answering telephone calls, and tapping information into computers. We stood and waited and waited, no one actually looked in our direction and there was distinct feeling of invisibility.

Eventually my wife spoke to man in Thai who pushed a registration form to me and motioned for me to fill it out. This I duly did and again waited as before and waited. My wife finally called to someone who mumbled some words which were unintelligible and told to go to the 4th floor. No mention of how to get there or where the lifts were to get us there.

On arrival on the 4th floor we saw a couple of different desks and finally plumped for home care (this being a pure guess on our part). The same feeling of invisibility descended there was lots of apparent action but no one willing to speak or even look in our direction. Eventually a young nurse said you have come for a cardiac test. I told her I had no idea - this was a hospital and that was for a doctor to decide not me. Just then another nurse broke into the conversation and she quickly started talking to her and ignored us. I decided that rather than stand around and wait for their conversation to finish I was going to sit down. This seemed to have some effect as there was blank looks when she eventually decided she had the time to speak to me and came over to where we had sat down.

She came over and asked us to wait in another room where I was quickly motioned to sit down where another nurse mumbled some half English. She took my weight asked me my height (which I gave in feet and inches) she never flickered at all, god knows what she wrote down. Next there was the same mumble and I decided what she had said was that she would take my blood pressure.

I waited another 10 minutes or so and was told to go to room 2 where there was a doctor. He asked a few questions in passable English and recommended I have an ECG and a chest X-ray. This was quickly carried out but all the while the staff and nurses simply were unable to communicate even the most simple of words of English. One nurse said shoes and I said she meant shirt? She was trying to say take off your shirt.

In the X-ray department another very unhappy farang was being lead back in as I guess the original X-ray have been wrong in some way. Profuse apologises were being made.

We traipsed back up to the 4th floor to be told to come back after 1 pm as the doctor had gone to lunch. On meeting the same doctor I waited while he finished having a jokey conversation which his nursing assistance. He gave me the good news that there was nothing showing up on the ECG or X –ray. He gave no diagnosis and merely seemed to agree with me that he thought it may the after affects of a virus type infection and to come back in a week if the symptoms did not improve. All of this was delivered in a somewhat unconcerned fashion.

At the cashiers I was handed a bill of 910 baht, which I duly paid. I asked the cashier if there was a discount card, she merely ignored my question. I asked her again and she told me there was but wouldn’t venture any details of how I might obtain one.

Ram hospital likes to portray itself as a top class international hospital (check there website) yet staff are seemingly rude, impolite, and unable to communicate even the most simple English terms. Even if the staff had problems speaking English not one even ventured to talk in Thai to my wife who could then interpret. There is a pervasive take it or leave it atmosphere and even a hint of arrogance.

All in all not a very impressive first visit which will probably not be repeated having visited other hospitals in Chiang Mai who have looked after me and my wife to a higher standard to that received at Ram.

We Brits tend to criticise the National Health system in the UK but I’m not so sure we have not overlooked the fact that health care in the rest of the world and perhaps here in Thailand is not nearly as good in any respect.

I did have a final laugh as I left the hospital for there on the ground floor was an office called “International Customer care”

[db1tau]

Do they still have that ancient x-ray machine? It looked for me like it was built in the 1950s or early 60s, never saw something like this back home in germany.

I ever was there for x-ray my ribs after a minor bike accident. While I waited I heard many foreigners complain. One woman has fallen down in a songtow and hurt her head and she had to wait about one hour till they even checked her blood pressure. She was quite angry that time

I was in Lanna Hospital twice, but its crowded like the Thapae Gate at New Years Eve, so you have to wait some hours(!) to see the doctor. hmm maybe that means it's good or cheap there or both.

I personally like the hospital near sheraton hotel, at least I cant say anything bad about it (till now) and I didn't have to wait long time.

But if I think of the hospital in my hometown in germany, I have to admit that it may be even worse than the thai hospitals. I have gone there once when my girlfriend had an infection in the ear and they didn't even had a doctor there so we had to go to another hospital 50km away. And there they didn't do anything helpful, after waiting about 3 hours.

So if you are ill on an weekend, you are better off in thailand than back home. The quality of the doctor's shops in germany (not hospitals) seems better than thai standard though. But remember they charge about 20 times more money.

Marco.

[jackr]

Hmmm. I've been there a few times and never had a problem. Been for medicals on the 4th floor and always found them helpful and courteous...and I'm usually the first to complain about bad service when paying for it.

[Dustoff]

~

Hard to imagine problems with CM Ram Hospital - did you go to the one at the NW corner of the moat?

I have tried several different hospitals including the university hospital (VERY crowded) and think Ram is about the best. When you walk in the front door (not the side emer entrance), the registration counter is half-way down on the right side just past the hallway to the Emergency Room. I have found that almost all of the very helpful girls speak English and once you have a card, they find your file almost immediately and pass it on to the station you are headed for. The actual nurses, in the traditional white hats, all speak at least some English.

For Cardiology, try requesting Dr. Padungkiat Bethakul, MD. He is very thorough, speaks excellent English and I have never had to wait more than a few minutes to see him.

Many (especially older) farangs experience chest pains not long after coming to Thailand. The spicy food can cause esophageal and stomach valve irritation, not to mention reflux which can cause esophageal spasms that feel JUST like a heart attack. If the discomfort happens primarily when you are lying down, that is what I would suspect..

The CM hospitals are okay in general but for anything serious like surgery, I would not go tp any of them. Either Bangkok Hospital or the quite expensive but fantastic Bumrungrad Hospital in BKK is where I have gone and will in the future. I needed surgery on an umbilical hernia and the surgeons here all impressed me as the old 'rusty bayonet' kinda mechanics who told me several times that they would, "figure out what to do after we get in there"... Yeah, right.

[Gulliver_in_LOS]

Can't give you an online medical diagnosis through this forum However I can say that we have received an excellent service in the New Born Clinic (Dr Amnuay) and Pediatric (Dr Nareelak).

Cheers,

G

P.S. Never heard about a discount card or been offered one. Does anybody know about it?

[rcalsop]

Can't give you an online medical diagnosis through this forum However I can say that we have received an excellent service in the New Born Clinic (Dr Amnuay) and Pediatric (Dr Nareelak).

Cheers,

G

P.S. Never heard about a discount card or been offered one. Does anybody know about it?

I work in Thailand and pay the correct social security and am therefore eligable for free treatment at the Hospital of my choice .. I chose a smallish local hospital in Rangsit where the farang is the exception ...I have had super service , no complaints my monthly visits are a pleasure and communication is always fun and the staff love to try their english ( no I am not a teacher ) .

many of the Doctors are visiting specialists from the bigger hospitals and the atmosphere is relaxed and comforting ..my family have also been treated there and the receptionist and nursing staff always aske by name about the family .. Christmas day morning with a three year old boy with broken arm was amazing we were greated by name , the doctor was busy so the radiologist took my son to give the required Xray it was obvious it was going to be needed , My son was know by name and was not at all worried .. Then into see the Doc with the Xray in hand and an immediate plaster . very quick trouble free and nice people the family even get a sort of discount .

I had similar experiences in Roi -et also ...

I did try the very expensive Bumrungrad Hospital and was unimpressed with the value for money ..I was just another farang or just another number and I would hate to be a doctor there

[Tywais]

I've never had problems with the staff at Chiangmai Ram I but with the doctor. Went in due to heart palpatations (had them all my life, just seemed worse then normal). Walked over to the information desk and they promptly asked what they could do for me and I told them I wished to see a doctor. They asked me what the problems (symptoms) were and if I had a insurance card.

They filled out a form and pointed me to another area on the 1st floor. Went there and again the nursing staff assisted me right away (BP, weight, height stuff). Waited about 10 minutes and they said I could see the doctor now.

I explained my problem and he probed my chest with the scope for about a minute and said everything seems fine. Asked me if I smoked and I said yes at which he said 'need to stop'. I asked if he could prescribe patches and he said that there was pill (Zyban) that would help. As I walked out with the prescription I asked if there were any side effects and he promptly said no. He was wrong, lots of side effects.

So now I wondered why no further tests with my symptoms potentially dangerous and 2nd not explaining the side effects of the pills. Back in the US the doctors are vigorous about making sure you know everything. It makes me nervous to go back to CR I but it may just be the specific doctor. Probably look around for recommendations for doctors at CR if I go back again.

As for Bangrumrad, I think it is top notch and equal to most hospitals I've used in the states. Had cataract surgery on both eyes (complete lens replacement) and the doctor (whose English was flawless) explained every little detail and willing to receive any questions I had. No sense of impatience at all.

Edited January 23, 2006 by tywais

[Ajarn]

For Cardiology, try requesting Dr. Padungkiat Bethakul, MD. He is very thorough, speaks excellent English and I have never had to wait more than a few minutes to see him

I would never recommend this doctor. He's the one who prescribed me a heart drug, while knowing that its users had a higher incidence of heart attacks when using it... It would have been better if he hadn't prescribed me anything. I only found out after having a heart attack

On another occasion, I had some kind of leg tissue infection. From his desk, he prescribed me a series of antibiotic shots (never even looked at it..) The condition worsened, and I finally went to MCcormick, where the doctor told me that had I waited a couple of more days, I would have lost my leg. He was amazed that Padungkiat didn't see how serious it was... I stayed there for 5 days while they treated me.

That was at a time when I still trusted Thai doctors to do their job. I've since learned my lesson.

Chiang Mai Ram is a good hospital, but the staff there don't always take enough care with patients

Edited January 23, 2006 by Ajarn

[p1p]

Discount card - Ask at Information. They used to cost 200 Baht and give, if I remember right, 10% discount. The Mrs. lent ours to a friend and we never got it back.

Never had any of the problems described above. Maybe I've been living here too long and got too used to Thai ways.

[Ulysses G.]

Never had any of the problems described above. Maybe I've been living here too long and got too used to Thai ways.

Me either.

Certainly better service, care and prices than the good ole' US of A.

[Gulliver_in_LOS]

Discount card - Ask at Information. They used to cost 200 Baht and give, if I remember right, 10% discount. The Mrs. lent ours to a friend and we never got it back.

Thank you. I'll ask for one next time.

Never had any of the problems described above. Maybe I've been living here too long and got too used to Thai ways.

I didn't want to be the first to raise this issue. But seems to me that sometimes Westerners, especially tourists, "appear" to the Thais to be rude or patronizing from their general behavior, such as voice intonation, facial expression, and body posture. I said "appear" because I think in most cases it is nothing else than a cultural difference.

IMHO.

G

[ThaiPauly]

I have never had a problem with the nursing or customer care side of things at CM Ram.

Doctors can be a bit hit and miss as with any hospital, and I certainly would not wanted to have been one of Dr.Shipman's patients for example back in the UK. I had one small op that went wrong and they did it again using a Doctor who WAS under 70 years old,without charge (I did have to make a song and dance about it though).

I have had 5 operations there and overall I rate it quite highly, even though at one time I was considering sueing them, the problems I had resolved themselves to my satisfaction so in the end I did not need to persue it, even though I was advised from the outset that it would be a waste of time.

Best Doctors as far as I am concerned are Sompol for internal medicine or Tossoporn for joint, muscle probs. The Physicatrist is a nutter, but the Ladies Doctor for "women's problems" seems very capable

Discount cards ARE available for a small cost and that gets you 10% off medication only. However I got 20% as I am on so many different tablets, on average I spend 4,000 Baht a month on various medication To get one go to the main reception desk.

I am sorry you had a bad experience, but I know for sure that I could not get the attention that I get at CMR that I would at a local hospital back home. (I am not saying I would not get better treatment-if I was prepared to wait until I was dead) to get it

But most of the nurses are cute though are'nt they

[sabaijai]

Can't give you an online medical diagnosis through this forum However I can say that we have received an excellent service in the New Born Clinic (Dr Amnuay) and Pediatric (Dr Nareelak).

Cheers,

G

P.S. Never heard about a discount card or been offered one. Does anybody know about it?

I work in Thailand and pay the correct social security and am therefore eligable for free treatment at the Hospital of my choice .. I chose a smallish local hospital in Rangsit where the farang is the exception ...I have had super service , no complaints my monthly visits are a pleasure and communication is always fun and the staff love to try their english ( no I am not a teacher ) .

many of the Doctors are visiting specialists from the bigger hospitals and the atmosphere is relaxed and comforting ..my family have also been treated there and the receptionist and nursing staff always aske by name about the family .. Christmas day morning with a three year old boy with broken arm was amazing we were greated by name , the doctor was busy so the radiologist took my son to give the required Xray it was obvious it was going to be needed , My son was know by name and was not at all worried .. Then into see the Doc with the Xray in hand and an immediate plaster . very quick trouble free and nice people the family even get a sort of discount .

I had similar experiences in Roi -et also ...

I did try the very expensive Bumrungrad Hospital and was unimpressed with the value for money ..I was just another farang or just another number and I would hate to be a doctor there

Interesting, I didn't know that. What do you show to get the free treatment -- your tax ID card? Might give it a whirl sometime when I need something minor attended to.

I've used Chiang Mai Ram several times with good results, but I speak Thai with the staff so can't comment on the English skills.

Gulliver makes a good point about possible cross-cultural misunderstandings. They could work the other way too, the OP may have thought the staff were mumbling when in fact they may have been speaking normal Thai.

[Gulliver_in_LOS]

Looking at this thread and some others, I think it is clearly more important to have information about doctors themselves than about any particular hospital. A "white" list for recommended doctors, and unfortunately a "black" list for bad doctors, seems to be a reasonable idea for this forum.

G

[likite]

Do they still have that ancient x-ray machine? It looked for me like it was built in the 1950s or early 60s, never saw something like this back home in germany.

Yeah its still the same. But I guess it works OK.

Gulliver makes a good point about possible cross-cultural misunderstandings. They could work the other way too, the OP may have thought the staff were mumbling when in fact they may have been speaking normal Thai.

The staff didn't seem to want to say anything. I asked what they wanted me to do and got nothing more than unintelligible words directed to me and not my wife. I would have been perfectly happy if they had simply spoken Thai to her, at least I would have known what was going on, where to go next etc.

I have been to Lanna hospital and Maharaj Hospital and another near the night bazaar and received pretty good treatment. Everybody was polite and helpful. So I was surprised that a visit to CM Ram, which is supposed to be the best should be so different from the rest.

My wife needs some medical advice and possibly some surgery in the near future but she agreed on this occasion CM Ram was not as we expected. Whether we go back again is another question.

[jackr]

Best Doctors as far as I am concerned are Sompol for internal medicine or Tossoporn for joint, muscle probs.

Dr Tossoporn

Is his wife's name Tessa?

[ThaiPauly]

Best Doctors as far as I am concerned are Sompol for internal medicine or Tossoporn for joint, muscle probs.

Dr Tossoporn

Is his wife's name Tessa?

No I think its Iwannaseesum ........Porn

[mogoso]

them. Either Bangkok Hospital or the quite expensive but fantastic Bumrungrad Hospital in BKK is where I have gone and will in the future. I needed surgery on an umbilical hernia and the surgeons here all impressed me as the old 'rusty bayonet' kinda mechanics who told me several times that they would, "figure out what to do after we get in there"... Yeah, right.

I'll concur with your Bumrungrad dianosis. Really efficent hospital, they get you in and get you out muy pronto (er mak won). I really liked paying the bill and at the same time picking up my prescription. No need to run around to a pharmacy.

Their dental office will sit you down for a bit, but my dentist also worked (retired now) on the Kings mouth, so quality of care was important.

[Johpa]

Alas, you folks will never get to experience the old McCormick Hospital when it was the best medical care available in Chiang Mai. Before you ever got to see a doctor there was the mandatory 3 hour wait sitting on the wooden benches surrounded by a cornucopia of ailments straight out of that famous medical textbook Elephantiasis and other Pictorial Diseases of the Tropics.

[jaideeguy]

My experiences with Ram1 over the past 7 yrs have been mostly good, with fast, cheap, friendly service. I have learned to take any doctor [Asian and western alike] with a grain of salt and do the research myself, especially when it comes to drugs.....google it. retired here, I have resigned myself to the Thai medical system....where else in the world can you see a specialist for under $5 and actually not be rushed. and have all those beautiful nurses pampering you.

As far as medicine, even with their 10% discount card, you will pay much more than a local pharmacy on the 'outside', where you can discount up to 40%. Ram is famous for high drug costs!!

[p1p]

Ram is famous for high drug costs!!

They were kicked out by most insurance companies because of their high med costs. They recently reduced these prices and have now been reinstated.

[ThaiPauly]

Ram is famous for high drug costs!!

They were kicked out by most insurance companies because of their high med costs. They recently reduced these prices and have now been reinstated.

Thats very interesting P1P.

Maybee I should see if I can get my presciptions from the local pharmacy instead, the pills I take I will have to take for life anyway so I may as well find out

[Ulysses G.]

Alas, you folks will never get to experience the old McCormick Hospital when it was the best medical care available in Chiang Mai. Before you ever got to see a doctor there was the mandatory 3 hour wait sitting on the wooden benches surrounded by a cornucopia of ailments straight out of that famous medical textbook Elephantiasis and other Pictorial Diseases of the Tropics.

I "experienced" McCormick and the long wait while screaming in pain from what turned out to be kidney stones. after waiting for hours, they finally gave me a shot in the back that made the pain worse.

I never complain about RAM!

[farangcm]

I paid my first visit to Ram hospital today following concerns about a persistent chest ache.

Since settling in Chiang Mai my overall impression gleaned from various sources was how good Ram Hospital was. Expensive with up to date treatments and good standards of care and service, as befits a top Thai hospital catering for farangs and Thai’s alike.

However my experience today was not very favourable...

Same on my first visit. Our 3-yr old was having an itching/rash problem. After being shuffled around, they sent us upstairs to the clinics (I expected to see a pediatrician). Then they sat us in a front hall waiting-room for about 20 minutes. Next they led us down the hall to another waiting room. Again we waited about 15-20 minutes, then someone finally looked at her for all of five minutes and asked a few questions in Thai, concluding in English: she has eczema or allergy. I didn't need to wait 30-40 minutes for that diagnosis!

I have been there since and have seen a pediatrician, and I am still not impressed with the

caliber of diagnosis and treatment. I have to suggest blood tests or xrays, otherwise they are not done.

I primarily use Rajavej hospital now, near Nonghoi. It is smaller and less expensive, but the quality of child care seems about the same. At least there, on another occasion, the pediatrician took initiative, ordered an xray then diagnosed bronchial pneumonia.

I use both Chiangmai Ram and Rajavej for my two migraine medications. Rajavej stocks one and Ram stocks the other.

Allen

Edited January 24, 2006 by farangcm

[michaelD]

I live in Australia where I get pretty good hospital attention - but when I went down with an emergency gall-bladder extraction last year, I had wonderful attention in every respect from the surgeon,specialists, nursing , administrative and sundry staff at the RAM.

Realy can't speak too highly of them.

With all due respect to the original poster of this thread who didn't seem to have one single decent thing to say about his experience at the RAM - may I suggest that he possibly brought many of the problems upon himself by reflecting something that Thais dont like and that is the showing of impatience etc. ( as was also suggested as a contributory factor by another poster).

Maybe I'm wrong - in which event I unreservedly apologise to him.

Cheers.

Edited January 24, 2006 by michaelD

[silverhawk_usa]

Again we waited about 15-20 minutes, then someone finally looked at her for all of five minutes and asked a few questions in Thai, concluding in English: she has eczema or allergy. I didn't need to wait 30-40 minutes for that diagnosis!

A little off topic but, while riding my motorcycle near Luang Nam Tha, Laos, I found my neck had broken out in a blisters and a rash. Went to the local "hospital" and there was not a Doctor present. Some rather puzzled looking nurses gave me some antibiotics and some creme. Charge about 100bt.

As I was leaving I ran into a Falang Dr. who was walking in at the time. I stopped him and he took a quick look and said "Oh it looks like some kinda fungal/bacterial infection thing, just take the medicine and it should go away".

Can't complain too much, it was gone in less than a week. Gotta love SE Asia!

[likite]

With all due respect to the original poster of this thread who didn't seem to have one single decent thing to say about his experience at the RAM - may I suggest that he possibly brought many of the problems upon himself by reflecting something that Thais dont like and that is the showing of impatience etc. ( as was also suggested as a contributory factor by another poster).

I am pleased to hear that your emergency treatment went well and you were very happy with Ram Hospital.

You say you suspect that some of the problems were brought on by my showing signs of impatience. Quite how you come to that conclusion I don’t know. I can say that was not the case. I was seen fairly quickly in all areas of the hospital apart from the initial registration which was not satisfactory by any standards. But the continued feeling of being just a number was evident through out the different parts of the hospital.

If you read the thread I was dismayed and surprised that a top International Hospital should treat any patient with a less than average standard of care and be so rude or indifferent (I can’t think of any other ways to describe some of the nurse’s attitudes). My dismay and surprise can be summarised as follows:

1) None communication of practically any kind either in English or Thai which in a hospital is worrying to say the least. Nurses seem to have no grasp of English, or if they do, they simply ignore what you say. How as a patient are you to get any kind of effective treatment. ( Remember I was not at the hospital for a rash or minor ailment)

2) Not following a simple medical procedure, again worrying.

3) A diagnosis by a doctor which was one that I suggested. The doctor never asked enough questions as to how I could have chest pains for a period of over 3 weeks and give a medical opinion.

4) Impolite staff who are seemingly not motivated to give a standard of care or service.

All of these things are quite at odds to what I expected having, as I said in the opening posting, experience in other hospitals where my visits were the exact opposite to that of Ram Hospital.

I would also say it was quite different to my visits to Thai dentists, banks, restaurants, hotels etc etc where care and service has been excellent.

Lastly, the hospital does attach importance to patient care as I pointed out in the original posting they do have a specific office on the ground floor “International customer care”. I would suggest they revisit the hospital policies in this area and seek ways to improve them.

[jackr]

Anyone know if Ram do allergy testing?

[Gulliver_in_LOS]

Anyone know if Ram do allergy testing?

You can check from the list of doctors at CM Ram Hospital. Also you can search for a particular doctor's name or a specialty in here, and then by clicking on the <Appointment> link you get the doctor's brief resume.

Cheers,

G

(BTW Dr Tosporn does really exist )

[wozo]

Anyone know if Ram do allergy testing?

You can check from the list of doctors at CM Ram Hospital. Also you can search for a particular doctor's name or a specialty in here, and then by clicking on the <Appointment> link you get the doctor's brief resume.

Cheers,

G

(BTW Dr Tosporn does really exist )

I think "Jackr" made a joke, which I appreciate.

Secondly, I would prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt, but in this case, excuse me if I am wrong, OP has most likely offended Thai sensitivities, after which the staff gave him a message, which didn't get through yet, unfortunately. I would say "Shame on you, likite !!!"