French Tourist Dies Snorkeling In Phi Phi Speedboat Accident

[NamKangMan]

I never "make lite" of the tragic deaths on Phuket and in Thailand, but with all the BS, corruption and cover-ups going on around here, I'm surprised the authorities didn't say it was a shark attack. Case closed.

[sunkist]

Idle speed or no wake zone withing 300 meters or some distance from shore is successful in other places. Of course getting any kind of enforcement and compliance here is likely impossible.

[Farangdam]

snokelling especially in group are normally organise by the traveling agency or license boating or a dive shop they should aware more regarding the risk and should aware of deterent measure such as a bouy, flag or at least a safe dive area which welknown to local i dont think they are going for diving with their own at least usd 200 equip furthermore make the return luggage heavier at least 5 to 10 kg ... irresponsible business man but what to say u normally signed ur life away before ur dive or snokelling trip..rip

[Alboy666]

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Because the majority of Thai men are spoilt pampered little brats who get away with anything when they are children so they grow up thinking they can get away with everything when adults.Mind you I use the term adult very loosely as most of them have the maturity of a 5 year old.

I have to take issue with both these points. FIrstly, I very much doubt that you will hear middle /upper class Thais tell a farang how weak Thai men are. we all know the bargirl / farm girl think "thai man no good....blah blah". Also it's not really a matter of weakness but rather just bad morals, lack of ethics and irresponsibility. Where is your evidence to suggest that women display greater social responsibility and better morals? Many a lady landlord has tried to screw me over on a rent deposit.

Secondly, with probably more than 50% of the population living in relative poverty it seems hard to swallow the view that most of the boys are spoiled brats. In the middle and upper classes this maybe a valid point but these make up a small amount of the population.

Would be nice if people would give some evidence or at least try to justify their stance before making sweeping generalisations

Edited August 20, 2012 by Alboy666

[lee68]

Thai authorities have issued a statement in regard to this incident. They say it is OK the speedboat wasn't damaged and the captain, aside from a bit of a hangover, is doing fine.

That would be about right,same as drink driving,no problems

[catweazle]

Another tourist die in Phuket? When the Embassies will publish advisories so that the local authorities are forced to apply the law. Tourist are dying more in Phuket than in any place in the world including Irak or Afganistan (1 French soldier died in Afganistan this last 5 years and it made the top news).

(Nikko at http://fb/gopattaya)

Even though Phi-Phi starts with a P as well, but the scene of the accident was NOT Phuket... Looking at your URL you seem to be located or at least are a keen admirer of Pattaya and my impression is (also given the intellectual vacuums of this and your previously posted messages) that all you gonna do in this forum is to do some senseless Phuket bashing... Guess we have enough out here to do that job (and with better content), so why not post anything helpful instead?

[catweazle]

Another tourist die in Phuket? When the Embassies will publish advisories so that the local authorities are forced to apply the law. Tourist are dying more in Phuket than in any place in the world including Irak or Afganistan (1 French soldier died in Afganistan this last 5 years and it made the top news).

(Nikko at http://fb/gopattaya)

Even though Phi-Phi starts with a P as well, but the scene of the accident was NOT Phuket... Looking at your URL you seem to be located or at least are a keen admirer of Pattaya and my impression is (also given the intellectual vacuums of this and your previously posted messages) that all you gonna do in this forum is to do some senseless Phuket bashing... Guess we have enough out here to do that job (and with better content), so why not post anything helpful instead?

[catweazle]

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Because the majority of Thai men are spoilt pampered little brats who get away with anything when they are children so they grow up thinking they can get away with everything when adults.Mind you I use the term adult very loosely as most of them have the maturity of a 5 year old.

I have to take issue with both these points. FIrstly, I very much doubt that you will hear middle /upper class Thais tell a farang how weak Thai men are. we all know the bargirl / farm girl think "thai man no good....blah blah". Also it's not really a matter of weakness but rather just bad morals, lack of ethics and irresponsibility. Where is your evidence to suggest that women display greater social responsibility and better morals? Many a lady landlord has tried to screw me over on a rent deposit.

Secondly, with probably more than 50% of the population living in relative poverty it seems hard to swallow the view that most of the boys are spoiled brats. In the middle and upper classes this maybe a valid point but these make up a small amount of the population.

Would be nice if people would give some evidence or at least try to justify their stance before making sweeping generalisations

R.I.P. to the victim and condolences to family and friends.

Lots of jumping to conclusions, bashing, mobbing, making generalizations and conspiring again also with this topic... Only good point was the one about the bad location of the "captain's" seat which is a sad but true fact. Living here for 21 years and having spent a fair share of this time actively in the diving industry, I can just say that in addition to the technical flaws of those Thai speedoats come points like negligence, carelessness, ignorance, plain stupidity, lack of proper training in handling and seamanship, as well as Macho behaviour of the (mostly) too young speedboat "captains". By experience I can say that most of them just give a rat's #$$ about the boat, the engines, safety or anything or anyone floating in the water. Ruining engines and gearboxes by going full throttle with a still cold engine is the most common "skill". To stay fair I must say that I also have had as employees and have worked with very good and responsible captains.

Hit and run is another story. To me it appears to be almost "chic" in Thailand to run away first and perhaps show up at a police station of choice at some later time (when alcohol and drugs have conveniently left the system)... As far as I can see, there are no extra punishments handed down here in Thailand for hit and runs, even if the official Thai law should state otherwise. I doubt that this will ever change what actually is rather sad, or better - embarrassing.

The spoiled brat comment however is something I won't buy and strongly agree to alboy666's words here... In my 21 years here I have met a lot of Thai men who proved themselves as hard working and honest people, proper family fathers and real good and reliable friends. Generalizations did not help any forum discussion I ever witnessed so far. Pointing fingers didn't either.

Advise I can give to touristing swimmers and snorkellers is to stay as close to shore and reefs as possible to minimize the chance that a speedboat or waterscooter will get dangerously close. I also don't believe that markers and buoy lines work - saw just too many times water scooters and speedboats (with the engine lifted to prevent the propeller from cutting the live) simply ignoring such boundaries to get from A to B in shortest possible time or simply out of pure ignorance.

As I mentioned earlier - life is dangerous (all over the world). Thus make every day count and live life to the fullest.

[laislica]

I spend a lot of time on the south eastern cost of Spain.

Traffic lanes are clearly marked with bouys, cabled together.

It is obvious to divers and jet ski/boat users, where they should be.

Would this be a possibility in Phi Phi?

[NamKangMan]

I spend a lot of time on the south eastern cost of Spain.

Traffic lanes are clearly marked with bouys, cabled together.

It is obvious to divers and jet ski/boat users, where they should be.

Would this be a possibility in Phi Phi?

Thailand, particularly Phuket, is all about maximum income for minimum expense outlay, and it doesn't matter if that extra expense is for safety, they will not pay it - also, they will not maintain it, will not upgrade it, will not train it's operators, will not license it's operators, will not regulate it, will not inspect machinery/premise etc etc etc. They would rather pay a bribe to circumvent the law, than pay to abide by it.

No one wants to see Thailand become a "Nanny State" - similar to where most expats and toursist are from, but, with Phuket not such a cheap holiday anymore, compared to their competitors, people have the right to expect some measure of safety, given the prices they are now paying here.

Unfortunately, a lot of it stems from the endemic corruption here which allows the tourism industry to be treated this way.

End result, death, injury, theft, rip offs, scams etc of tourist, and a lot of negative publicity.

Tourism hardly a sustainable industry when run "managed" this way.

Edited August 21, 2012 by NamKangMan

[sunshine51]

Why don't they put out buoys so that people know this certain area is for snorkeling only. This certain area is for speedboats to come and go. It's no big deal really ?

The best answer yet!....This system has been used in Australia for decades.

This is a good idea.

However there is at least two faults with it...just for starters...

1...the bouys will be ignored by speedboat/jetski drivers or used

as slalom markers to race around.

2...the bouys and their attaching/daisychaining lines will be stolen.

RIP Mr. Olivier Jannequin

Condolences to your friends & family.

[Aquanaut]

I have snorkelled/freedived around the Phi Phi islands many times and I too have been terrified. After the second (very) close call with a inattentive/careless boat driver, I decided never again and now find less busy locations in Krabi Province (Phi Phi is NOT in Phuket, but MANY speedboat tours operate from there for day trips to these islands) to spend time on/in the water.

<p>If you do visit and want to spend some time snorkelling, follow Catweazle's good advice and stick close to the rocks, reefs and/or the boat that brought you. But, even then the longtails often come too uncomfortably close. The very design of the longtails and speedboats do little to offer the drivers good forward vision. Keep your ears open; engine noise travels far underwater and if snorkelling, lift your head often, look and be aware of any approaching vessels. As previously mentioned, training, responsibility and consideration towards safety are sadly lacking in Thailand. If you are in a group or with you family, consider renting your own longtail for the day (often costing no more p/p than joining one of the wood framed speedboat (tours) overloaded with passengers - incidentally, at least one of these boats sink annually!) and ask the driver to take you to quiter snorkelling spots with less boat traffic (hard to find, I know). Try to take all necessary measures to ensure your own safety and if you feel the risk is too high, don't take partake in that activity.

Marker bouys and flags are generally ineffective; I use them all the time and still too often they go unnoticed by careless boat drivers. I dont think designated safety areas would work either, due to the layout of the islands, the choice of spots to dive and snorkel and the sheer number of boats whizzing around here, there and everywhere. Speed limits within say 1 km of Phi Phi islands, together with a requirement to have a lookout person at the bow of all boats when within this radius would work, if it was anywhere else but Thailand. Who would enforce such restrictions here and how?

My sincerest condolences to the family and friends of the victim.

Edited August 21, 2012 by Aquanaut

[spidermike007]

Here in Florida we use what is called a "Diving Flag". It is probably unheard of in Thailand and never enforced but we enforce it daily here to prevent tragedies like these. Florida law and maritime law in most countries except perhaps Thailand, the driver of the boat is supposed to stay at least 300 feet away when he or she spots the flag. If the snorkelers did not put up the flag they can be equally at fault. If I were diving or snorkeling in Thailand, I would put up maybe 3 giant dive flags and pray these morons will get the idea.

What you are referring to is a safety precaution, from an area where there is a high price put on a human life, and the safety of such. Here, the price of a human life is that of several chickens, and people behave that way. Plus you are asking for reasoning, and common sense. I have seen some Thai women with common sense, and the ability to reason. But, so very few Thai men, who can reason, or bother to reason. They really are a sad and pathetic lot. Amazing how far the nation has come, considering how terribly substandard their men are. Shameful really.

[moskito]

been diving a lot in phuket area , speed boats driver have no respect for snorkelers or divers ....and of course one more time he fled the scene ... are they all like this ? a bunch of cowards ? RIP Mr french ..... nobody deserve to die like this .

Dont get me wrong here, I am appalled that this has happened and may he rest in peace.

I send my heartfelt condolences to his family and friends.

However the position of the driver of these speedboats may have something to do with these types of accidents.

From where he is sitting, he cant see what is directly in front of him.

At least 10-15 meter in front of the boat is a blind angle.

Theoretically he could have thought he was now well out of any danger zone and then sped up.

The roar of the 750 hp engines on the back would have drowned out any cries.

Should he have someone in the front of the boat watching the blind angle - yes by all means.

I dont know if its required by any law, but certainly the companies operating these speedboats should enforce having a lookout when maneuvering in shallow water.

Or maybe the design of these boat need to change slightly, to allow better overall vision for the driver.

there is NEVER only one Thai on board driving the boat....at least 3 people are on every Speedboat....they are in duty for landing the boat and bring it back to deeper water and normally for watching out....may be they have been busy watching the girls on the boat....its often more important... Mr. Frensh should have heard the Engines long before it rammed him.....no clue why he was not up waving.... Anyway...Speedboatcrews are not better as most tuk tuk drivers YOU have to give way to them...not the other way around....they are THAI and we are swimming in THEIR waters....experienced it more then one time on a small beach close to Evason where this Boats landing Chinese tourists of every two minutes all day long....

[Unkomoncents]

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Because the majority of Thai men are spoilt pampered little brats who get away with anything when they are children so they grow up thinking they can get away with everything when adults.Mind you I use the term adult very loosely as most of them have the maturity of a 5 year old.

I have to take issue with both these points. FIrstly, I very much doubt that you will hear middle /upper class Thais tell a farang how weak Thai men are. we all know the bargirl / farm girl think "thai man no good....blah blah". Also it's not really a matter of weakness but rather just bad morals, lack of ethics and irresponsibility. Where is your evidence to suggest that women display greater social responsibility and better morals? Many a lady landlord has tried to screw me over on a rent deposit.

Secondly, with probably more than 50% of the population living in relative poverty it seems hard to swallow the view that most of the boys are spoiled brats. In the middle and upper classes this maybe a valid point but these make up a small amount of the population.

Would be nice if people would give some evidence or at least try to justify their stance before making sweeping generalisations

R.I.P. to the victim and condolences to family and friends.

Lots of jumping to conclusions, bashing, mobbing, making generalizations and conspiring again also with this topic... Only good point was the one about the bad location of the "captain's" seat which is a sad but true fact. Living here for 21 years and having spent a fair share of this time actively in the diving industry, I can just say that in addition to the technical flaws of those Thai speedoats come points like negligence, carelessness, ignorance, plain stupidity, lack of proper training in handling and seamanship, as well as Macho behaviour of the (mostly) too young speedboat "captains". By experience I can say that most of them just give a rat's #$$ about the boat, the engines, safety or anything or anyone floating in the water. Ruining engines and gearboxes by going full throttle with a still cold engine is the most common "skill". To stay fair I must say that I also have had as employees and have worked with very good and responsible captains.

Hit and run is another story. To me it appears to be almost "chic" in Thailand to run away first and perhaps show up at a police station of choice at some later time (when alcohol and drugs have conveniently left the system)... As far as I can see, there are no extra punishments handed down here in Thailand for hit and runs, even if the official Thai law should state otherwise. I doubt that this will ever change what actually is rather sad, or better - embarrassing.

The spoiled brat comment however is something I won't buy and strongly agree to alboy666's words here... In my 21 years here I have met a lot of Thai men who proved themselves as hard working and honest people, proper family fathers and real good and reliable friends. Generalizations did not help any forum discussion I ever witnessed so far. Pointing fingers didn't either.

Advise I can give to touristing swimmers and snorkellers is to stay as close to shore and reefs as possible to minimize the chance that a speedboat or waterscooter will get dangerously close. I also don't believe that markers and buoy lines work - saw just too many times water scooters and speedboats (with the engine lifted to prevent the propeller from cutting the live) simply ignoring such boundaries to get from A to B in shortest possible time or simply out of pure ignorance.

As I mentioned earlier - life is dangerous (all over the world). Thus make every day count and live life to the fullest.

Congratulations on your success in finding Thai men who function ethically, legally, and financially. What would be the ratio of men to women who display those traits in Thailand (care to hazard a guess)? Not making generalizations amounts, in many cases, to not thinking or noticing patterns (one of the most agreed upon indicators of basic intelligence). In sabai-sabai, hippy land, blind ignorance is synonymous with tolerance.

[spidermike007]

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Because the majority of Thai men are spoilt pampered little brats who get away with anything when they are children so they grow up thinking they can get away with everything when adults.Mind you I use the term adult very loosely as most of them have the maturity of a 5 year old.

I have to take issue with both these points. FIrstly, I very much doubt that you will hear middle /upper class Thais tell a farang how weak Thai men are. we all know the bargirl / farm girl think "thai man no good....blah blah". Also it's not really a matter of weakness but rather just bad morals, lack of ethics and irresponsibility. Where is your evidence to suggest that women display greater social responsibility and better morals? Many a lady landlord has tried to screw me over on a rent deposit.

Secondly, with probably more than 50% of the population living in relative poverty it seems hard to swallow the view that most of the boys are spoiled brats. In the middle and upper classes this maybe a valid point but these make up a small amount of the population.

Would be nice if people would give some evidence or at least try to justify their stance before making sweeping generalisations

Based on my experiences. Far more often, the women are capable of level headed decisions, whereas most of the men just get overheated, and make very, very poor decisions based entirely on emotion, and completely devoid of reason, or common sense. It is a fact that most Thais were not blessed with a great degree of intelligence. This could be scientifically proven. A very poorly endowed gene pool. How many nobel peace prize winners, pulitzer prize winners, peacock award winners (excellence in journalism), academy award winners, etc., have you seen coming from Thailand? There are exceptions. I know some very sharp Thai people. But, I am talking in generalities here. Sorry, I know this is offensive, but sometimes the truth hurts.

[ttthailand]

Why don't they put out buoys so that people know this certain area is for snorkeling only. This certain area is for speedboats to come and go. It's no big deal really ?

The best answer yet!....This system has been used in Australia for decades.

This is a good idea.

However there is at least two faults with it...just for starters...

1...the bouys will be ignored by speedboat/jetski drivers or used

as slalom markers to race around.

2...the bouys and their attaching/daisychaining lines will be stolen.

RIP Mr. Olivier Jannequin

Condolences to your friends & family.

You may be right but my guess is that if a bouy is used the boat/jetski driver won't have any idea what it is and drive over to have a look. It will attract more action than act as a warning. TIT

[osten]

I must disagree that the women drop the kids off at mom's house just so they can not take responsibility. Rather, I have found it to be out of necessity. Mom is too old to work, so the daughter is the breadwinner who also takes care of mom financially. I am referring to middle class, Bangkok-bred Thais here, based on personal experience. Country lacks significant social security or pension system so it's merely about survival for many families.

The "infamous hit and run", is so common in Thailand. Why will the Thai men not take responsibility for their actions? Many Thai women tell me stories, after stories of how incredibly weak Thai men are. They sire children, then leave, without any willingness to pay any support to their children. They cause accidents, and then flee from the scene of the crime. They steal, and then when caught they no nothing of the crime. They kill, and then they flee the scene. The cause traffic accidents, due to their lack of driving skills, and flee the scene, instead of taking responsibility. Where is the sense of accountability in this nation? The women seem far more willing to take responsibility for their actions, and in general, seem to be far superior to their male counterparts, in terms of social responsibility, ethics, morality, etc. Am I wrong on this one, or am I seeing things clearly?

Been here 17 year off and on and I have to say you are correct, except the women are also same. Women drop the kids off at moms house and go about their lives. It's a Thai thing and is about looking out for number 1...live for the moment. Sad to hear about anyone who has an accident like this RIP.

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