Thailand In World War 2

[leftcross]

I've heard conflicting stories about what Thailand did in WW2 - does anyone know for sure?

[justsignedin]

I've heard conflicting stories about what Thailand did in WW2 - does anyone know for sure?

Whatever was best for them, without going to a war which they could'nt win.

[GuestHouse]

Thailand capitulated to the Japanese, became a vassal state under Japan and declared war on the United States and Allies.

They, along with their Japanese masters, lost the war.

Some Thai private Citizens fought a resistance war against the the Japanese and Thai military.

Oh... The Thai abassodor to the US made a personal decision not to deliver the declaration of war, much to his credit.

This however did not stop Thailand providing manpower and supplies to support the Japanese in their campaigns against the Allies.

Nor did it stop the Allies conducting campaings against the combined Japanese/Thai forces in Thailand, including bombing raids in BKK.

[leftcross]

Thanks GuestHouse

Were the Ethnic Malays in the south of Thailand on the Allies side?

[Oishi]

From Foreign Office

The Government Public Relations Department

Thailand, or Siam, found itself in a unique position during the Second World War, in particular the war in the Pacific, with Japan as the key player. John B.Haseman wrote in his monograph on “The Thai Resistance Movement During the Second World War” as a conclusion to the second chapter “Political and Military Development Leading to World War II” that:

“Thailand entered World War II amid tremendous military and political pressures applied by Japan. The country’s strategic location in Southeast Asia was vital to the Japanese war effort in Malaya, Burma, and India. By exploiting Thailand’s nationalism and strong feelings of sovereignty Japan gained an important beach-head from which to launch military operations without having to occupy Thailand. At the same time Japan maneuvered Thailand into overt partnership. Thailand’s “voluntary” alliance with Japan served as an effective means to demonstrate solidarity in Asia and lent credence to Japan’s claims of a voluntary growth of its Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.

“Thailand’s internal political situation lent itself to formation of a resistance movement. The country’s political elite was split into a military faction led by Phibul and a smaller civilian elite headed by Pridi. The long history of conflict between the two men and their supporters made it perhaps inevitable that Pridi would form a resistance organization against Phibul and the Japanese occupation forces. He had the advantage of personal power, a small group of loyal followers, and many years of experience in opposition to the Phibul government. The Japanese demand for a declaration of war by Thailand against the western democracies provided a natural focus of outrage around which the Thai people could rally regardless of their internal political sympathies.

“The significance of the illegally drawn document that was the formal instrument of Thailand’s declaration of war became increasingly important as the war progressed and the resistance movement expanded. As will be seen, the resistance leaders directed their efforts toward discrediting Phibul’s basic position that placed Thailand in the Axis camp rather than on the Allies’ side. Finally, the illegality of the manner in which Thailand entered the war on the side of Japan became an important diplomatic symbol for the resistance movement and its worldwide supporters.”

In August 1945, Japanese military headquarters planned a major operation to get rid of secret bases in Northeastern Thailand used for resistance operations. The offensive , planned to start on August 19, never occurred. Japanese forces in Thailand surrendered following the dripping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. On 15 August 1945, American officials suddenly appeared in Bangkok and in the provinces to represent the Allies until Lord Mountbatten’s headquarters could send official representation.

On the same day, Prime Minister Khuang Abhaiwongse immediately annulled the 1942 declaration of war. The Regent, Pridi Banomyong, prepared a Royal Declaration of Peace that invalidated the two war declarations stating they were a violation of the Thai Constitution and not representative of the will of the people.

The resistance movement, Seri Thai, paraded in Bangkok shortly after the arrival of Allied representatives the next day. Political leaders and guerrilla units marched as organized forces with all their weapons. The march was presided over by the Regent. In the year 2000, the 100th anniversary of the birth of Pridi, August 16, was proclaimed Thailand’s Peace Day.

[zzap]

The ethnic Malays were fighting on the allied side, they were promised an independent Pattani by the Brits. That's part of the historic background for the present conflict.

Sorry, I don't have a link at hand, but it's easy to find on the net.

The Thais also managed to claim compensation from the Japanese for the damage the Thai resistance movement caused to railways and other infrastructure during the occupation, an admirable achievement.

[penzman]

I watched an interesting program th'other day about the Flying Tigers on CCTV , old pilots telling stories about WWII. They did mention some bombing raids as well in Chiang Mai.

[Khun Bob]

There was a film on thai tv last night about the japs in thailand and it seems they did some pretty bad things here....

Some of the older Thais who experienced this are none too fond of the japanese - equally the older malays hate the japs for what they did over 60 years ago.

Seems that that the thai fighters in thailand may have been helped by the americans. The americans dropped alot of bombs on thailand as well in the film - bit like vietnam, cambodia and laos a few years later...

[longway]

I've heard conflicting stories about what Thailand did in WW2 - does anyone know for sure?

Ive been reading a couple of books on thai history rcently. Fromwhat I remember during the 30s thailand went thu a vey nationistic phase and was lookng for ways to regain/gain territory. In 1939 the country's name as chnged from Siam.

The county maintained strong links wit h Japan over the 30s. When WW2 started the thai govt attacked the French to give back parts of Cambodia it had annexed, with Japan using its influence in support of the thais. Later it seized Shan states in Burma.

The that govt was split between pro japnese and pro wstern factions, led by Phibun and Pridi respectively. The policy was to try to avoid getting caught up with either side in the war, without getting swallowed up.

In December 1941 the Japanese landed and to avoid a full invasion Phibun allowed the Japanese to use Thailand as a base for its militrary ambitions.

In January 1942 Thaiand was pressured into declaring war on the US. which was never delivered by the thai ambassador.

Pridi resigned and from govt but became regent. He used that position to organise the Seri Thai resistance movement. Phibun's govt from 1943 onward also supported the guerillas, who numbered 50,000 or so. Pridi in 1944-45 wanted to launch an uprising but the Allies for some reason discouraged it

The Japanese pretty much ravaged the thai economy and treated the thais very badly.

The US treated Thailand as a state occupied by the enemy and did not allow Britain to impose puntive measures.

Its not very clear cut which is why I imagine you hear conflicting stories. Thailand tried to maintain links with both sides. Phibun I believe tried to make sure that Thailand was on the winning side.

[jonik]

wonder what thailand would look like if the japs won the war..........

[jonik]

Guess some of you have heard about this bridge over river kwai

it's famous for some ww2 stuff and movies.

[lanny]

Guess some of you have heard about this bridge over river kwai

it's famous for some ww2 stuff and movies.

The bridge is just part of the so-called "Death Railway" the Japanese built between Thailand and Burma. They needed the raillroad to supply their forces fighting in Burma and India.

It was the use of prisoners of war, mostly British, Australian, and Indian, to build the railway that is best known in Western countries. The film "The Bridge on the River Kwai" with Alec Guinness made this rather famous a number of years ago. Those of you who are my age will remember this film.

Western countries were outraged at Japan for the brutal treatment of the POWs. What is less well know, at least in the West, is that the Japanese also used Thais, Malays, and other SE Asian people for this project, including men, women, and children. While something like 20,000 Australian and British prisoners died from mistreatment, the Asian losses were more like 90,000! We don't hear much about those, though.

[Boon Mee]

wonder what thailand would look like if the japs won the war..........

More car factories?

[johnnyk]

The Thais have always looked out for themselves and will do whatever they have to do in order to prosper and enjoy their brand of freedom.

They were a classic buffer state between the British in India-Burma-Malaya and French Indochina.

Japanese moved in, why fight when you can't win. Make money off them.

They have no love for the Viets so were quite happy to take American largesse in the form of money and infrastructure in return for allowing airbases upcountry.

When the boys got horny they were more than happy to create Pattaya.

They have always played both ends to the middle.

Thai Rak Thai.

[ThaiPauly]

Kanchanaburi is DEFINATLEY not a place that Japanese tourists want to visit.

There are two cemetaries there. The Allied Forces one is kept immaculatley and an inscription at the entrance says that this is a little peice of Europe/Aus/NZ/USA donated by the Thai's to them.

The Japanese cemetary on the other hand is completley overgrown and unkempt.

The Allied Cemetary is certainly worth a visit if you have not been there, although I must warn you that you will be moved by the ages of the boys that you see died there, what a waste of such young lives

I read that when the Japanese commanders arrived in BK they insisted that the then PM signed an agreement allowing them to occupy Siam by midnight that night as they had assembled an invasion force just off the coast at Surat Thanni. The PM was not there and could not be contacted, the Deputy could not make that decison, so at midnight Japanese soldiers landed at Surat and began millitary action. Many Thais were killed and had only spades, pitchforks and machetes to defend themselves with. This lasted for many hours until the PM could be found and did indeed sign the agreement of co-operation.

[jackr]

wonder what thailand would look like if the japs won the war..........

A plethora of golf courses and 1,000-Yen Som Tam

[wilko]

From Foreign Office

The Government Public Relations Department

Thailand, or Siam, found itself in a unique position during the Second World War, in particular the war in the Pacific, with Japan as the key player. John B.Haseman wrote in his monograph on “The Thai Resistance Movement During the Second World War” as a conclusion to the second chapter “Political and Military Development Leading to World War II” that:

“Thailand entered World War II amid tremendous military and political pressures applied by Japan. The country’s strategic location in Southeast Asia was vital to the Japanese war effort in Malaya, Burma, and India. By exploiting Thailand’s nationalism and strong feelings of sovereignty Japan gained an important beach-head from which to launch military operations without having to occupy Thailand. At the same time Japan maneuvered Thailand into overt partnership. Thailand’s “voluntary” alliance with Japan served as an effective means to demonstrate solidarity in Asia and lent credence to Japan’s claims of a voluntary growth of its Greater East Asia Co-prosperity Sphere.

“Thailand’s internal political situation lent itself to formation of a resistance movement. The country’s political elite was split into a military faction led by Phibul and a smaller civilian elite headed by Pridi. The long history of conflict between the two men and their supporters made it perhaps inevitable that Pridi would form a resistance organization against Phibul and the Japanese occupation forces. He had the advantage of personal power, a small group of loyal followers, and many years of experience in opposition to the Phibul government. The Japanese demand for a declaration of war by Thailand against the western democracies provided a natural focus of outrage around which the Thai people could rally regardless of their internal political sympathies.

“The significance of the illegally drawn document that was the formal instrument of Thailand’s declaration of war became increasingly important as the war progressed and the resistance movement expanded. As will be seen, the resistance leaders directed their efforts toward discrediting Phibul’s basic position that placed Thailand in the Axis camp rather than on the Allies’ side. Finally, the illegality of the manner in which Thailand entered the war on the side of Japan became an important diplomatic symbol for the resistance movement and its worldwide supporters.”

In August 1945, Japanese military headquarters planned a major operation to get rid of secret bases in Northeastern Thailand used for resistance operations. The offensive , planned to start on August 19, never occurred. Japanese forces in Thailand surrendered following the dripping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. On 15 August 1945, American officials suddenly appeared in Bangkok and in the provinces to represent the Allies until Lord Mountbatten’s headquarters could send official representation.

On the same day, Prime Minister Khuang Abhaiwongse immediately annulled the 1942 declaration of war. The Regent, Pridi Banomyong, prepared a Royal Declaration of Peace that invalidated the two war declarations stating they were a violation of the Thai Constitution and not representative of the will of the people.

The resistance movement, Seri Thai, paraded in Bangkok shortly after the arrival of Allied representatives the next day. Political leaders and guerrilla units marched as organized forces with all their weapons. The march was presided over by the Regent. In the year 2000, the 100th anniversary of the birth of Pridi, August 16, was proclaimed Thailand’s Peace Day.

Japanese forces in Thailand surrendered following the dripping of atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

- dripping? doesn't seem to be an appropriate verb to accompany "atom bomb"

[billd766]

I must admit to having no real knowledge of Thai history during the 2nd world war but it seems to me it was a bit like France which was split after the Germans invaded, with Vichy France actively helping the Germans.

Vichy France also controlled French Indo China which is now Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam and also offered no resistance to the Japanese. In Vietnam there was a resistance movement supported by the Americans and led by Ho Chi Minh but after the war the French came back and tried to run the country as it was before.

The Viet Minh resistance then changed from fighting the Japanese to fighting the French and most people know what happened from then on.

[Gary A]

You would never convince the downed Allied fliers that Thailand was on the Japanese side. The Thai people picked them up quickly and hid them from the Japanese. Many more Thais and Asians died on the construction of the death railway than Allied soldiers. The Allied cemetery is an example of what the Thai people thought of the Allies. They did as they always have done. They made what concessions they had to to preserve their country and culture.

[Cassandra]

You would never convince the downed Allied fliers that Thailand was on the Japanese side. The Thai people picked them up quickly and hid them from the Japanese. Many more Thais and Asians died on the construction of the death railway than Allied soldiers. The Allied cemetery is an example of what the Thai people thought of the Allies. They did as they always have done. They made what concessions they had to to preserve their country and culture.

Well that's putting a very favourable gloss on Thai behaviour, but it's a case that can at least be argued.However about the allied cemeteries you are plain wrong since they have nothing to do with the Thais.The establishment,financing and maintenance is entirely the work of the (British) Commonwealth War Graves Commission.

[allane]

Re: The "Victory Monument" in Bangkok

I understand that this well-known monument was built some time after World War II. But what "victory" is being celbrated, given that officially, Thailand backed Japan, which lost the war ? Conversely, I find it difficult to believe that Seri Thai would ever have received permission to build such an imposing monument at such a central location.

I would appreciate a reference to a published work.

[longway]

Re: The "Victory Monument" in Bangkok

I understand that this well-known monument was built some time after World War II. But what "victory" is being celbrated, given that officially, Thailand backed Japan, which lost the war ? Conversely, I find it difficult to believe that Seri Thai would ever have received permission to build such an imposing monument at such a central location.

I would appreciate a reference to a published work.

It was the victory over the Vichy French in Cambodia in 1941.

'Officially' they could have been on either side. The legality of their declaration ofwar can be debated.

They certalnly did not declare war on the US willingly. I think thai troops only ever fought the chinese in burma. Thailand was on nobody's 'side' and had no reason to be either. Most thais hated the japanese.

Edited January 25, 2006 by longway

[johnh101]

Watched a very good movie yesterday called "To End All Wars" anyone interested in this period of history should watch it. It starts Robert Carlyle and Keifer Sutherland (24) and is another take on the death railway story. Very grafic and very moving.

[Nordlys]

Kanchanaburi is DEFINATLEY not a place that Japanese tourists want to visit.

But recommended, given how little they know about what happened there.

The Japanese cemetary on the other hand is completley overgrown and unkempt.

There is no Japaense war cemetery in Kanchanaburi AFAIK, only a memorial monument built not far from the bridge near where souvenir shops are. You're probably confused with the Chinese cemetery next to the Allied war cemetery.

[zzap]

The railway in 1945:

http://www.cofepow.org.uk/pages/asia_thailand1.html

[Richard Hall]

Just wonder about the relevance of this question 60 years(!) after the war has ended.

Back then the majority of the people reading here were surely still floating in the big swamp not even scheduled for delivery

[qualtrough]

My memory tells me that the Victory monument was designed by Bhirasi, (sp?) who was an Italian artist who lived in Thailand for a long time. I believe he did the Victory over Democracy monument as well.

Someone mentioned that the Victory Monument was about the Thai victory over the French in Cambodia. They also fought them in Lao as well. The French navy dealt the Thai navy a heavy blow off of Koh Chang in 1941 as part of that war. Interesting site with info on that battle here:

http://www.lemaire.happyhost.org/ship/edito/9993.html

Some Thais put up a heroic defense at Prachuab Khirikan when the Japanese invaded. Interesting article here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Prachuab_Khirikhan

and here:

http://www.geocities.com/thailandwwii/prachuap.html

[otherstuff1957]

The French Vichy Colonial fleet soundly defeated the Thai Navy in the battle of Koh Chang, but they didn't or couldn't follow up on that victory and the Thai's won the war - hence the building of Victory Monument. Thailand briefly regained several Lao and Cambodian provinces that the French had taken from them over the years, but had to give them back after WWII ended.

I've read somewhere that the Battle of Koh Chang was the only French Naval victory in the twentieth century.

[Tippaporn]

Here's a great link on the Death Railway.

http://www.ean.co.uk/Bygones/History/Artic...ath_railway.htm

There are a lot of personal accounts contained here that are absolutely fascinating to read. I spent quite a bit of time on this site a few years ago as I, too, was relatively ignorant about Thailand's history in WWII.

Edited January 25, 2006 by Tippaporn

[TokyoT]

Thailand was changing quite a bit during this time period and many things that were going on not directly related to the war IMHO are skewed to look as though they were related to the war. In all reality Thailand could have cared less about either side, and had enough problems at home to deal with. Outside pressures being what they were, and the geographical location, in combination with the natural resources of Thailand meant they were certain to be involved.

If you look back Thailand had a very favorable view of Japan leading up to the war. In 1933 when the League of Nations voted in regard to Japan’s invasion of Manchuria, Thailand was the SOLE vote of abstention. Also Thailand began sending Thai military to train in Japan in 1935. During these early to mid 1930’s Khun Phibun was very active and vocal in his favorable feelings about Japan. Japan was held up as a prime example of a strong Asian nation.

Also the rift between Phibun and Pridi began about the same time as the war, but was more over right-wing (Phibun) vs. left-wing (Pridi) ideologies rather than allied vs axis associations or preferences. As both Phibun and Pridi had worked together in the 1932 coup. So while there were some anti-Phibun actions being taken by Pridi during this time frame were more about what direction Thailand should be heading (left vs right). What I consider the truly anti-Japanese movement really did not kick in until around 1943 – well into the war. These anti-Japanese factions surfaced more because it was becoming clear that Japan might actually loose the war, and due to continually deteriorating situations inside Thailand (high inflation, lack of even some basic goods). Also of note in the relationship between Phibun, and Pridi was that following the war Pridi was basically in charge of things (at least by mid 1946), and during this time the war crimes charges against Phibun were dismissed.

Thailand had been fighting with France (allied power – kind of), since 1939 in regard to localized land issues, and Japan helped Thailand to settle some of these issues, and agreements (gbetween the French and Thai) were struck aboard Japan navy vessels (hardly any arm twisting by the Japanese), in March of 1941. In 1941 Thailand loaned Japan around 35 million baht to purchase Thai goods (such as rubber that was crucial to the Japan war effort).

Also of note while many books and such that cover this topic indicate that Thailand was “forced” into declaring war against the allied powers there are sources that indicate other wise. In the diaries of Josef Goebbels (a major player in the Nazi propaganda machine), he indicates that Japan actually requested Thailand to NOT declare war against England at that time. Another source indicating that Thailand took this action without Japanese “forcing” them is “Siam and Japan: The Perils of Independence”.

At the end of the war the British sure seemed to think Thailand deserved little slack in their role in the war, and wanted to stick it to Thailand. The US pretty much put the skids on this and played a large role in getting Thailand off the hook. The Brits seemed to think that Thailand played a significant role in the speed with which Japan was able to expand across Southeast Asia, and that they were more an active partner than a pawn. As supporting proof for this the Brits pointed to the relatively good condition of the Thai agricultural sector as compared to Indo-China and parts of the Dutch Indies, both of which had been pretty much ravaged by the Japanese.

In light of the reading/ research I have done on the topic I tend to agree with the Brits at the time of the end of the war. IMHO Thailand was certainly not a Japanese pawn, they took advantage of the situation to try and expand their role/position and only when things started to turn sour (1943) did Thailand start to really resist the Japanese actions. This is not to say there was no resistance to the Japanese at all inside of Thailand prior to 1943, or that ALL Thai’s were in favor of the actions being taken.