Thailand Never Been Colonised - Fact Or Myth?

[Stokakrishna]

Thailand has been tomporarily colonised by burmese in XVI century. and raided many times by burmese in the future.

As for the second world war. I see it as Thailand sold themseves to Japan. Capitulated to Japan after just few days of "fighting" and a week later became an ally. Although a useless one. And as soon as Japan started losing they sold themselves to the west, by breaking the alliance and going to war against japan.

So Thailand has been just balancing, floating between the powers.

Thailand goes only with the richest and in power...

As for why Thailand has never been colonized by french or English. Just look on the map. Thailand had been a buffer zone between France and England- separating the areas of influence: burma and malay peninsula to the British and East of Thailand to the French. They got the trade rights, and it was enough for the European powers. and as i said the buffer zone.

Edited August 30, 2012 by Stokakrishna

[HerbalEd]

Yes - it has been. One of the reasons though it never got the full India or Vietnam treatment though is that basically they have / had nothing worth taking. Nothing. It would have cost a conquering nation considerably more than they could plunder from Thailand so not worth the effort except for some of the opium provinces in the North which were swallowed up and today still form part of 2 other countries. It's just that from a national pride point of view they prefer to teach their kids (when they are in school and not in MBK knifing each other) that they were the worlds best negotiators, and that their people were so much more loyal to their country than other places that no country could defeat them. Pack of balls basically.

I'd say the abundance of Thai rice was worth taking.

[Ulysses G.]

Thailand and Thai culture today are vastly different from 30 years ago.

The changes wrought in Thai society are not the work of Thai but more of American movies and TV, and furlough soldiers in Pattaya... and to a lesser extent the conduct of the diplomatic wives, particularly in Chiang Mai.

What nonsense. Thais do not watch American TV and pay little attention to foreigners. Any changes in Thai society are because of Thai people.

[HerbalEd]

Yes - it has been. One of the reasons though it never got the full India or Vietnam treatment though is that basically they have / had nothing worth taking. Nothing. It would have cost a conquering nation considerably more than they could plunder from Thailand so not worth the effort except for some of the opium provinces in the North which were swallowed up and today still form part of 2 other countries. It's just that from a national pride point of view they prefer to teach their kids (when they are in school and not in MBK knifing each other) that they were the worlds best negotiators, and that their people were so much more loyal to their country than other places that no country could defeat them. Pack of balls basically.

Because the British and the French already exported and profited so handsomely from all that rice grown in Burma, Malaysia and Indchina (respectively) that they obviously had absolutely no desire to access the Thai arable land, not to mention the fact that only an idiot would want to take advantage of a Malay - China and Burma - Indochina land route for trade when they can pay to support the shipping business and sail through pirate infested waters to give their navy something to do.

When the British and the French threatened to invade Thailand several times (usually about 'lack of free trade' - some things never change) they ended up seeing each other off, much to the relief of Thailand. It was all just for sh_ts and giggles anyway, they didn't want any of Thailand really.

Really?? They wanted ... and got ... India, Burma, Laos, Cambodia, Vietnam, Malaysia, Sumatra, Singapore, and Indonesia ... but for some strange reason they didn't care about Thailand. Come on ... really??

[HerbalEd]

Colonised - No. Colonial powers used Thailand as a boundary between their power - to avoid conflicts between the colonial powers.

Occupied - Yes

There are two definitions of colonized the second being;

"Come to settle among and establish political control over (the indigenous people of an area)."

That will be the Japanese then. Still.

In 1940's did the Americans colonize the British? No of course not. Nor did the Japanese colonize the Thais. They were allies. The Thais agreed to let the Japanese use Thailand to attack both Singapore and Burma (probably dramatically changing the duration of WWII) for the land back that the Brits and French stole and the right to the opium production areas of Burma which Thailand increased from 9 to 36 tons per year.

Umm no. Thailand were not allies of the Japanese because that seems to make you believe that Thailand had a choice. Japan marched in. Thailand, incapable of fighting because that would mean all the mummy boys being away from their mummy, said "ohh, well seeing as you are here, let's be friends. Please don't kill us". Really - any book written by a Thai expert on anything, let alone History, use it for what it's worth. Toilet paper.

Yeah, why should we believe a "Thai expert" when we have you?

[Newguy70]

Myth. . .

Although they love believing that they have not been.

[Mosha]

I'd say at the time we were colonising the area, rice was pretty low on the list. Biggest problem in WWII was Japan controlled most of the worlds rubber. Thailand wasn't on the radar for rubber, it was Malaysia they wanted. One of the reasons why USA spends money researching other latex sources, and apparently there is a grass, as yet difficult to cultivate. They don't want to be held to ransom over resources again.

[james24]

Im not sure about the first post informing that more Thia pow's died building the bridge at River Kwai, in fact I think they were one of the least affected....

[GuestHouse]

I'm not sure how Thailand defines colonised.

For long enough the Thai national gold reserves where held in London - Thailand's economic levers in the hands of the British.

While at the same time back in Thailand, the Thais had ceded judicial authority in any dispute between Thais and citizens of a host of foreign (European and American) nations.

It might very well have suited the British and the French to leave a buffer state between their two respective eastern empire colonies, but it seems certain it suited them to castrate that state before leaving it to its 'independence'.

[seri thai]

Many more Thais died building the infamous railway than the allied POWs.

Thailand at the time was undergoing a nationalistic period in which they wanted to reunite all of the Thai speaking peoples in to one country. That meant they wanted Laos and Shan territory in Burma, and even wanted part of China. The government was happy to cooperate with the Japanese and invade Shan state in Burma.

"plus ca change, plus ca meme chose" then?

[atyclb]

"The Thais and japanese signed an agreement at the Temple of the Emerald Buddha, and then the Thais surprised the japanese by actually declaring war on the western allies"

This "declaring war on western allies" may be more akin to the Thai style of declaring "crackdowns" and "hubs"

[atyclb]

Although considered normal in their society, the "colonizing power or the enemy within is corruption and cheating. It is more damaging than being colonized by a foreign nation.

[pieandmash]

Yes - it has been. One of the reasons though it never got the full India or Vietnam treatment though is that basically they have / had nothing worth taking. Nothing. It would have cost a conquering nation considerably more than they could plunder from Thailand so not worth the effort except for some of the opium provinces in the North which were swallowed up and today still form part of 2 other countries. It's just that from a national pride point of view they prefer to teach their kids (when they are in school and not in MBK knifing each other) that they were the worlds best negotiators, and that their people were so much more loyal to their country than other places that no country could defeat them. Pack of balls basically.

I'd say the abundance of Thai rice was worth taking.

There wasn't an abundance of Thai rice, that came only in the present Kings reign. Back in colonial times most Thai rice production was subsistence agriculture.

[chiangmaikelly]

Yes - it has been. One of the reasons though it never got the full India or Vietnam treatment though is that basically they have / had nothing worth taking. Nothing. It would have cost a conquering nation considerably more than they could plunder from Thailand so not worth the effort except for some of the opium provinces in the North which were swallowed up and today still form part of 2 other countries. It's just that from a national pride point of view they prefer to teach their kids (when they are in school and not in MBK knifing each other) that they were the worlds best negotiators, and that their people were so much more loyal to their country than other places that no country could defeat them. Pack of balls basically.

I'd say the abundance of Thai rice was worth taking.

There wasn't an abundance of Thai rice, that came only in the present Kings reign. Back in colonial times most Thai rice production was subsistence agriculture.

Thailand has been an important exporter since 1855 when the Bowring

Treaty with Great Britain opened Thailand up to international significant scale (Corden and Richter 1967, p. 128).

By the early 1930’s Thailand was exporting one-half of its annual production.

World War 11 greatly disrupted rice production and trade in Southeast Asia.

However by 1949 Thai rice exports had come back up to 1.2 million metric tons of milled rice , or 27 percent of annual production.

In other words Thailand has been an important rice exporter for more than 150 years.

[Gaccha]

Thailand was 'internally colonised'. That is, the superpower of Thonburi took one little mini-kingdom at a time until it grew to a size where its boundaries could be disputed with the western powers.

So the question of this thread cannot be answers because it presumes stable concepts of 'state','sovereignty', and 'boundaries'.

Read, as a start, 'Siam mapped'.

My pleasure.

[IAMSOBAD]

Thailand has been run by Taxi Mafias...Jet ski Mafias...Corrupt police...Bar girls...and Mister T. What sane country or government would want that Colony?

What for their smart workforce?

Thailand has great food and easy women...no reason to occupy!

Sent from my GT-N7000 using Thaivisa Connect App

[nietzche]

I think the Thais view the Japanese occupation as a 'temporarily permitted alliance'.

The U.S. used Thailand as a staging ground to drop million of tons of bombs on their Vietnamese neighbors. Don't think they had much say about it.

You can call it what you want.

[chiangmaikelly]

I think the Thais view the Japanese occupation as a 'temporarily permitted alliance'.

The U.S. used Thailand as a staging ground to drop million of tons of bombs on their Vietnamese neighbors. Don't think they had much say about it.

You can call it what you want.

Most people call it the SEATO Treaty.

Thailand asked the US to leave in 1975 and they did. Of course after building deep water ports, airports, roads and spending 10 million a year on other infrastructure projects which launched Thailand into the future instead of ending up like Laos, Burma or Cambodia.

Edited August 30, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[marstons]

Thailand were not allies of the Japanese because that seems to make you believe that Thailand had a choice. Japan marched in. Thailand, incapable of fighting because that would mean all the mummy boys being away from their mummy, said "ohh, well seeing as you are here, let's be friends. Please don't kill us". Really - any book written by a Thai expert on anything, let alone History, use it for what it's worth. Toilet paper.

There was a previous agreement between the Thai government, represented by the Prime Minister, Phibunsongkram, and the Japanese for the landing and transit of Japanese troops through Thailand to attack Burma and Malaya.

The Thais and japanese signed an agreement at the Temple of the Emerald Buddha, and then the Thais surprised the japanese by actually declaring war on the western allies.

Thailand had lots of choices, and made the choice to join the Japanese.

After the war, there was significant disagreement between the Brits and Americans regarding just whether Thailand should be "punished" or not, and how much. Eventually an agreement was signed for Thailand to provide some rice to other parts of SE Asia, but even that low level was never actually handed over.

I do have copies of all the documents if anyone wants them. Send me a PM and I'll put them up in a SendSpace file.

If this is the case why did the Thai's oppose the invasion and fight the invasion, well at least until midday on the day of the landings.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_invasion_of_Thailand

[philw]

Thailand and Thai culture today are vastly different from 30 years ago.

The changes wrought in Thai society are not the work of Thai but more of American movies and TV, and furlough soldiers in Pattaya... and to a lesser extent the conduct of the diplomatic wives, particularly in Chiang Mai.

What nonsense. Thais do not watch American TV and pay little attention to foreigners. Any changes in Thai society are because of Thai people.

I know you cannot take any criticism of America, however the "Americanisation" of Thailand over the last few score years years is huge.

Forty years ago Thailand was an American land borne aircraft carrier.

The USA influence here is massive.

You are correct to say that changes in Thai society are the result of Thai people, but you are disingenuous to imply that USA, her corporations and her society have no influence or effect here.

They clearly do and in my opinion, it's a bad effect and influence.

[StreetCowboy]

Thailand and Thai culture today are vastly different from 30 years ago.

The changes wrought in Thai society are not the work of Thai but more of American movies and TV, and furlough soldiers in Pattaya... and to a lesser extent the conduct of the diplomatic wives, particularly in Chiang Mai.

What nonsense. Thais do not watch American TV and pay little attention to foreigners. Any changes in Thai society are because of Thai people.

I know you cannot take any criticism of America, however the "Americanisation" of Thailand over the last few score years years is huge.

Forty years ago Thailand was an American land borne aircraft carrier.

The USA influence here is massive.

You are correct to say that changes in Thai society are the result of Thai people, but you are disingenuous to imply that USA, her corporations and her society have no influence or effect here.

They clearly do and in my opinion, it's a bad effect and influence.

Generally speaking, the American corporations of which you speak achieve their influence through attraction, rather than coercion. It appears that Thai people (same as people the world over) find Hollywood and McDonalds attractive.

SC

[maxme]

@Submaniac

Fact is that the Thai government has been trying to hide actual facts in history for a long time so of course there is going to be speculations, assumptions even uneducated guesses.

I have many British friends but I'm not by far a British fan but even I have to give these guys the credits. They were the first to get involved in this horrible war, they broke the Enigma code which lead to the beginning of victory among other things. Just because you don't agree with some posters about some facts doesn't make you necessarily right.

Obviously you don't have the stomach for a debate so why don't you chill down and come back when your head is clear. This is not a we VS them thing so don't destroy the thread by making it into one.

[phutoie2]

So what's Victory monument about? fighting all the nasty imperialist's off. I'm sure one of the TV armchair history buffs will have something on this.

[sbk]

and one. can't go off for a few hours without you guys totally ignoring my warnings.

Just be grateful I am feeling kind and am not handing out warnings

//CLOSED// due to an utter inability to stay on topic