Australian Medicare Benefits Whilst Living Overseas

[cheynewalk]

Does anybody know if you lose eligibility for medicare (free hospital) if living outside australia for extended periods?

How does medicare/centrelink define "residency" in Australia.

[David48]

I'm sure if you read through this thread (clickable link) about the Australian Aged Pension, you will find your answer to your question ... and many others.

[simple1]

OP: The following URL will provide the info you need re Medicare:

http://www.humanserv...care-agreements

Edited August 31, 2012 by simple1

[Naaling]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

[simple1]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

Good info

[sanuk21]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

Good info

Bad info

Basically, if you are absent from Australia for more than 6 months of the year you are no longer a permanent resident for Taxation/Medicare/Centrelink purposes.

After 5 years of not being a permanent resident you will lose medicare benefits unless you return to Australia and demonstrate that you are now permanent.

For old age pension you need to live permanently in Australia for at least two years after applying....

sanuk

Edited September 1, 2012 by sanuk21

[simple1]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

Good info

Bad info

Basically, if you are absent from Australia for more than 6 months of the year you are no longer a permanent resident for Taxation/Medicare/Centrelink purposes.

After 5 years of not being a permanent resident you will lose medicare benefits unless you return to Australia and demonstrate that you are now permanent.

For old age pension you need to live permanently in Australia for at least two years after applying....

sanuk

Thanks - I am aware of the process for OAP. I just thought it was interesting input regards how to position living in Thailand when dealing with Centrelink and applying for OAP upon return to Australia. Yes, after returning to Australia and being granted OAP. you have to live in Australia for a minimum of two years for eligibility for overseas payment My understanding from Centrelink is that after the two year period, if you then return to Thailand, you still receive the base OAP payment. Of course this can all change if the criteria is changed at a later date.

[Naaling]

<p>

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

Good info

Bad info

Basically, if you are absent from Australia for more than 6 months of the year you are no longer a permanent resident for Taxation/Medicare/Centrelink purposes.

After 5 years of not being a permanent resident you will lose medicare benefits unless you return to Australia and demonstrate that you are now permanent.

For old age pension you need to live permanently in Australia for at least two years after applying....

sanuk

Edited September 2, 2012 by Naaling

[Naaling]

<p>

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

Good info

Bad info

Basically, if you are absent from Australia for more than 6 months of the year you are no longer a permanent resident for Taxation/Medicare/Centrelink purposes.

Definately not true!! Residency for tax purposes is based on the common law concept of "Domicile". Basically you cannot lose your Australian residency until you establish a PERMANENT abode outside Australia and that takes a minimum of 2 years, not 6 months. Given Thailand's immigration rules, most Australians living in Thailand will never be able to establish a permanent abode here, therfore they can remain Australian residents for tax purposes indefinately, provided they submit appropriate tax returns

After 5 years of not being a permanent resident you will lose medicare benefits unless you return to Australia and demonstrate that you are now permanent.

Only if you stop submitting tax returns - you can only lodge back returns for 5 years

For old age pension you need to live permanently in Australia for at least two years after applying....

sanuk

I don't want to get into a fight, but you are definately wrong about medicare - these are the FACTS

I have been living in Thailand now for 11 years. In Feb 2011 i returned to Australia for a medical procedure and had no trouble claiming medicare. My medicare card is still valid. This is only because I never stopped lodging tax returns as a resident for tax purposes.

If you have evidence to the contrary then let us know, but please don't mislead others with unsubstantiated claims.

About the OAP I'm not so sure, but I would like to hear from anyone who has remained a resident for tax purposes for their entire stay in Thailand and has experienced difficulty claiming an OAP over the past 2 years ( since Rudd changed the residency rules.

[sanuk21]

Quote:

"If you have evidence to the contrary then let us know, but please don't mislead others with unsubstantiated claims."

Maybe you have the evidence to back your unsubstantiated claims......

Here is mine!

Determination of ATO Residency Status

http://www.ato.gov.au/individuals/content.aspx?doc=/content/63623.htm

Medicare Eligibility

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/customer/enablers/medicare/medicare-card/eligibility-for-medicare-card

sanuk

[ripstanley]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

The taxation office has a resident test. I would suggest that you talk to them first to see if you will be a resident of Australia for taxation purposes. There are many factors. I qualify because I have an Australian Government superanuation pension. They have linked their decision to my tax file number

This can only be done over the phone. I tried via email but got told to phone.

Edit I have established a permanent abode here.

Edited September 2, 2012 by ripstanley

[samran]

Whether you file a tax return or not does not make one jot of difference. It is the physical residency that matters as far as Medicare is concerned. Now, whether the medicare and immigration databases talk to each other like they do with centrelink payments is an entirely seperate question.

There are two ways to play it then: within the 5 years 'move' back to oz and spend some time there.

Or let your card lapse and when you need to go back to OZ on your first day head to a centrelink office and tell them 'I'm back' and they'll re-issue a card there and then (rarely happens as they just send a new one to your registered address anyway).

[Naaling]

Quote:

"If you have evidence to the contrary then let us know, but please don't mislead others with unsubstantiated claims."

Maybe you have the evidence to back your unsubstantiated claims......

Here is mine!

Determination of ATO Residency Status

http://www.ato.gov.a...ntent/63623.htm

Medicare Eligibility

http://www.humanserv...r-medicare-card

sanuk

1. I have been living in Thailand for 11 years

2. My medicare card is still valid.

You can't get evidence that is more first hand than that!

This test is for people who want to be non-residents - high income earners who do not want to pay tax in Australia. Let me explian how the residency test really works according to the legislation.

The test is a 3 step process.

Step 1 Did you live in Australia for 183 days or more in the finantial year - If yes then you are a resident , if no go to step 2

Step 2 Did you change your country of domicile? Under Commom law everyone has a country of domicile - the country you have a right to live in permanently and you call home. You would change your domicile by moving permanently to another country in which you have citizenship or permanent residency. If yes then you are a non-resident, if no go to 3.

Step 3 Did you establish a PERMANENT abode in another country. This is what most of the questions in the test are about, and In this context permanent doesn't mean forever, it is better defined as the foreseeable future. In Thailand it would be difficult to claim that your abode is permanent without having a visa for at least 2 years - and very few people can get such visas.

As I said before this test is for people who want to become non-residents to avoid paying tax in Australia - not surprisingly the tax office enforces this fairly stricly.

If you want to remain a resident for tax purposes then the tax office really doesn't care. All you have to do is declare and pay tax in Australia on all of your overseas income. This has been the case since 2010, when Rudd changed the residency rules. to (in his own words) " to put all Australian residents on the same footing wherever they live in the world"

The medicare link you provided doesn't shed any light on this topic at all.

[Naaling]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

The taxation office has a resident test. I would suggest that you talk to them first to see if you will be a resident of Australia for taxation purposes. There are many factors. I qualify because I have an Australian Government superanuation pension. They have linked their decision to my tax file number

This can only be done over the phone. I tried via email but got told to phone.

Edit I have established a permanent abode here.

You would also have qualified without the pension. I have. (confirmed by my accountant in Australia - a CPA)

You have an abode that you think is permanent. Just check your passport - I bet your visa expires in less that a year. Yes I know it will probably be easy to renew or extend it, but if your situation was truly Permanent then you wouldn't need to. I accept that it is possible to use the word "permanent" in a general sense to describe you situation, but not in the legal sense as per the legislation.

Edited September 3, 2012 by Naaling

[ripstanley]

To retain your eligibility for medicare you must submit a tax return each year as a RESIDENT FOR TAX PURPOSES, so that you can be assessed for the medicare levy. You need to do this even if you have no taxable income in Australia.

You can live in Thailand indefinately and remain a resdent for tax purposes in Australia, as long as you do not establish a PERMANENT ABODE here.

If your stay here is based on visas/extensions of 1 year or less then (by definition) you do not have the legal right to live PERMANENTLY in Thailand.

This is also the single most important thing to do if you intend to claim an Australian aged pension at a later date.

The taxation office has a resident test. I would suggest that you talk to them first to see if you will be a resident of Australia for taxation purposes. There are many factors. I qualify because I have an Australian Government superanuation pension. They have linked their decision to my tax file number

This can only be done over the phone. I tried via email but got told to phone.

Edit I have established a permanent abode here.

You would also have qualified without the pension. I have. (confirmed by my accountant in Australia - a CPA)

You have an abode that you think is permanent. Just check your passport - I bet your visa expires in less that a year. Yes I know it will probably be easy to renew or extend it, but if your situation was truly Permanent then you wouldn't need to. I accept that it is possible to use the word "permanent" in a general sense to describe you situation, but not in the legal sense as per the legislation.

Yes I used it in the general sense.

[sanuk21]

Samran's Quote:

"Whether you file a tax return or not does not make one jot of difference. It is the physical residency that matters as far as

Medicare is concerned."

I agree with Samran.

My posted link to Medicare supports this insofaras....

Medicare's Quote:

"Eligibility for Medicare (Card) is for everyone who lives in Australia who holds Australian citizenship".

Please note the key word "lives" in Australia.

If you have been living in Thailand for 11 years how can you be "living" in Australia as well.

Naaling's Quote:

"You can't get evidence that is more first hand than that"

If we are to believe what you are saying, this is anecdotal evidence at best.

Something I wouldn't like to hang my hat on.

A documented ruling from Medicare supporting your eligibility for a Medicare Card after 11 years of absence

would be what I class as evidence.

[Naaling]

Samran's Quote:

"Whether you file a tax return or not does not make one jot of difference. It is the physical residency that matters as far as

Medicare is concerned."

I agree with Samran.

My posted link to Medicare supports this insofaras....

Medicare's Quote:

"Eligibility for Medicare (Card) is for everyone who lives in Australia who holds Australian citizenship".

Please note the key word "lives" in Australia.

If you have been living in Thailand for 11 years how can you be "living" in Australia as well.

Naaling's Quote:

"You can't get evidence that is more first hand than that"

If we are to believe what you are saying, this is anecdotal evidence at best.

Something I wouldn't like to hang my hat on.

A documented ruling from Medicare supporting your eligibility for a Medicare Card after 11 years of absence

would be what I class as evidence.

Are yiou calling me a liar???

If you are then I see no piont responding to you.

To others, who are reading this post let me say this. I have spent the past 6 years researching this issue and have encountered a lot of ill-informed information, like taht provided by sanuk21. One of the biggest mistakes expat Australians make is the heed the Tax Office's advice that you don't need to lodge returns if you have no income in Australia. My advice is to lodge a return each year as a resident for tax purposes ( I've already explained why you can do this). If you haven't been lodging returns and you have been out of Australia for less than 5 years, then get an accountant or taxagent to lodge the back return for you.

By the way the medicare website may say "for everyone who lives in Australia who holds Australian citizenship", but it doesn't say anything about Australian citizens living outside Australia. Sanuk21 is assuming that part and you can't do that when dealing with legal matters.

I repeat again - I have been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and my medicare card is still valid and I have no reason to expect that it will ever become invalid. This is because i lodge tax returns each year as a resident for tax purposes.

[samran]

Samran's Quote:

"Whether you file a tax return or not does not make one jot of difference. It is the physical residency that matters as far as

Medicare is concerned."

I agree with Samran.

My posted link to Medicare supports this insofaras....

Medicare's Quote:

"Eligibility for Medicare (Card) is for everyone who lives in Australia who holds Australian citizenship".

Please note the key word "lives" in Australia.

If you have been living in Thailand for 11 years how can you be "living" in Australia as well.

Naaling's Quote:

"You can't get evidence that is more first hand than that"

If we are to believe what you are saying, this is anecdotal evidence at best.

Something I wouldn't like to hang my hat on.

A documented ruling from Medicare supporting your eligibility for a Medicare Card after 11 years of absence

would be what I class as evidence.

Are yiou calling me a liar???

If you are then I see no piont responding to you.

To others, who are reading this post let me say this. I have spent the past 6 years researching this issue and have encountered a lot of ill-informed information, like taht provided by sanuk21. One of the biggest mistakes expat Australians make is the heed the Tax Office's advice that you don't need to lodge returns if you have no income in Australia. My advice is to lodge a return each year as a resident for tax purposes ( I've already explained why you can do this). If you haven't been lodging returns and you have been out of Australia for less than 5 years, then get an accountant or taxagent to lodge the back return for you.

By the way the medicare website may say "for everyone who lives in Australia who holds Australian citizenship", but it doesn't say anything about Australian citizens living outside Australia. Sanuk21 is assuming that part and you can't do that when dealing with legal matters.

I repeat again - I have been living in Thailand for over 11 years now and my medicare card is still valid and I have no reason to expect that it will ever become invalid. This is because i lodge tax returns each year as a resident for tax purposes.

Not calling you a liar, you genuinely seem to believe that lodging the return gets you the Medicare card. Fine.

Problem with that theory is that I know people living in Thailand, who haven't lodged a Tax return in Australia for at least a dozen years, but still get the medicare card sent to their registered address come the expiry date of the old card.

As I said, immigration and centrelink systems talk to each other. But immigration and medicare don't seem to.

[Naaling]

"Problem with that theory is that I know people living in Thailand, who haven't lodged a Tax return in Australia for at least a dozen years, but still get the medicare card sent to their registered address come the expiry date of the old card."

samran

I didn't say they would get cut off if they didn't lodge returns - others did. What I am saying is that if you lodge returns as a resident for tax purposes, then you will be assessed for the medicare levy and definately not cut off.

[Naaling]

"If you have been living in Thailand for 11 years how can you be "living" in Australia as well."

sanuk21

I never said I am still living in Australia. The problem is that the word "resident" has both a general and a legal meaning.

Of course it would be silly for me to claim that I am still a resident of Australia in general terms. However, as I have already explained, according to the legal definition of the word, I am still a resident of Australia for tax purposes (and no doubt so are you). In this instance it is the legal definition that counts

[Tolley]

I think it is a bit of a grey area. I was working in the ME for 7 years and I came back home after being away for 18 months and when I went to the doctors they told me I had been out of the country for too long and was therefore not eligible for medicare. I had a valid medicare card but apparently they can tell if you are out of the country for a long time.

This was in 2002 so things may have changed since then.

I guess I will find out when I came back to Australia this time as I have been away for over a year now but I have lodged a return this time unlike when I was in the ME.

[Ned]

If you are living outside of Australia 183 days or more a year for the last 5 years and you are still paying tax in Australia then you are not entitled to be taxed at a Resident Taxpayer's rate. It's your legal responsibility to inform the ATO of your Non Resident status......for which you'll be taxed at a higher rate. The taxmen usually want to get their dues and you'd reckon they'd view your not reporting your overseas residency unfavourably. You're lucky that Immigration and the ATO don't seem to be coordinated. I wish I still had my Medicare card but I didn't want to run the risk of being nabbed one day in the future on a trip back down under. I'm a wimp from way back.

[Tolley]

If you are living outside of Australia 183 days or more a year for the last 5 years and you are still paying tax in Australia then you are not entitled to be taxed at a Resident Taxpayer's rate. It's your legal responsibility to inform the ATO of your Non Resident status......for which you'll be taxed at a higher rate. The taxmen usually want to get their dues and you'd reckon they'd view your not reporting your overseas residency unfavourably. You're lucky that Immigration and the ATO don't seem to be coordinated. I wish I still had my Medicare card but I didn't want to run the risk of being nabbed one day in the future on a trip back down under. I'm a wimp from way back.

I dont think that is true.

If you have a company in Australia/income and property as well in Australia then you can still be taxed at resident rates even if you are out of the country for a log period of time.

If you work overseas for less than two years then you are liable to pay tax on your overseas income and even if you away for more than two years the tax dept. may still deem you as a resident for tax purposes.

It is all a very grey area.

Finally if you can prove you are not resident of another country then you are still a resident for tax purposes in Australia.