"russian Roulette In Thai hel_l"*

[LaoPo]

"Russian Roulette in Thai hel_l"*

Short story: according to newspaper* in Holland:

Machiel Kuijt, an almost 38 year old Dutchman is already 9 years in prison. The first Thai court 'freed' him and declared him innocent, also because his ex-girlfriend, who was arrested for drug-smuggling, pleaded him free. He was also not on the crime-scene.

In a higher appeal he was sentenced to 'life' imprisonment because of the suspection that he 'must have known' about the smuggling.

The case was big news for some years in Holland and Thailand as well. Thai and Dutch lawyers, as well as the Dutch government were convinced that he was totally innocent.

Even Queen Beatrix from Holland as well as Foreign Affairs' Minister Bot (on an Official State-visit to Thailand in January 2004..)) were 'lied to' by the highest possible Thai Government Officials in Thailand, promising the case would be judged again by the Thai Supreme Court, the same year, before the Summer of 2004, as well as the 'promises' that, whatever would happen, the death penalty would not be given.

2 years later nothing has happened yet.

According to Machiels' mother, he now is afraid the case will be forgotten and will get the death penalty, despite the promises by Thai autohorities.

The article also speaks of: "843 doomed on death row in Bangkwang Prison - Bangkok"

Note:

I am not judging here anything, however, since even the Queen was involved it appears that the guy is indeed innocent...

IF he is innocent it's the most horrible scenario anyone could run into.

So, watch your back, and who's your (ex)-friend!

source: (headlines) De Telegraaf - The Netherlands (translated)

LaoPo

Edited January 25, 2006 by LaoPo

[sriracha john]

Thanks LaoPo... sounds like a very interesting case. Are there websites you know (in English) about him?

I can go Google it myself, but if you know of specifics, it'd be helpful.

There is a tidbit more about him in old thread on here as well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19239&hl=

and an article about the Queen's visit in 2004:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...=92120&usrsess=

Edited January 25, 2006 by sriracha john

[LaoPo]

Thanks LaoPo... sounds like a very interesting case. Are there websites you know (in English) about him?

I can go Google it myself, but if you know of specifics, it'd be helpful.

There is a tidbit more about him in old thread on here as well:

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19239&hl=

and an article about the Queen's visit in 2004:

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/search/pag...=92120&usrsess=

Thank you SJ!

thanks to your 1st link (above) I found this on one of the websites:

http://www.foreignprisoners.com/ (some very scary and depressing stuff in there )

but that seems to be more AU/USA/UK related...BUT I found this article also in connection to Machiel Kuijt

"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""

The case for an extradition treaty with Thailand

A majority in the Dutch Lower House of Parliament wants the government to conclude an extradition treaty with Thailand. The vote comes a week after a Dutch national was sentenced to life imprisonment in Thailand on charges of drug trafficking. Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner, however, objects to the extradition with Thailand, which he says would imply approval of that country's tough justice system.

Tuesday's debate in the Hague parliament was prompted by case of Machiel Kuijt, a 35-year- old Dutchman, who has been jailed in Thailand for six years on charges of drug trafficking.

Mr Kuijt has protested his innocence ever since his mid-1997 arrest at Bangkok airport, when Thai police found 748 grams of heroine on his former Thai girlfriend and concluded that Mr Kuijt therefore had to be involved in drug trafficking as well.

After serving five years in preliminary detention, Mr Kuijt was acquitted, but he landed immediately back in jail when the public prosecutor appealed the verdict. Last week, a Bangkok court found Mr Kuijt guilty on the same flimsy evidence that earlier produced his acquittal.

Different legal systems

The case highlights the problems involved in concluding an extradition treaty with Thailand, says Dutch Justice Minister Piet Hein Donner. Signing such an agreement would be tantamount to official recognition of the harsh Thai legal system.

In Mr Donner's view, the discrepancies with the Dutch system are simply too great. Complicity in drugs trafficking, for instance, carries a life prison sentence in Thailand, but only a few years in jail in the Netherlands.

The current dilemma is reminiscent of events in 2001, when the Moroccan government discovered that a number of Dutchmen released from Moroccan prisons were immediately given their freedom when they arrived in the Netherlands. The Rabat government was outraged and immediately terminated its extradition treaty with the Netherlands.

Dilemma

Two years ago, The Hague insisted that the Dutch legal system apply to its nationals returning home after being sentenced abroad. That would be impossible to maintain for suspects like Machiel Kuijt, who are given a life prison term on the basis of wafer-thin evidence that would never stand up in a Dutch court of law. But Mr Kuijt would have to go back behind bars on his return to the Netherlands, if only to appease the Thai authorities and keep the extradition treaty alive.

While acknowledging the magnitude of the problem, Dutch legal expert Theo de Roos says it should not be exaggerated. There's always room for compromise in negotiations preceding the extradition treaty, he points out. Prison sentences meted out abroad could for instance be lowered to accommodate Dutch legal practices.

Professor Roos believes the Thai authorities would also be interested in an extradition treaty with the Netherlands, even if it allows a certain measure of flexibility. "The Thai authorities will have a certain interest in letting European prisoners go, as long as they're able to tell them their punishment isn't over yet, that they still have to spend quite a few years behind bars in their home country."

by Nicky Jansen - reprint frmo Radio Netherlands

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Complicated case IMHO and difficult for the Thai 'Jurisdictional System/Law' in order NOT to lose face...and therefore:

postpone, postpone and delay...

I will have a further look if I can find anything in English, related to this guy and post it if I can find it.

LaoPo

[phuketsiam]

In a higher appeal he was sentenced to 'life' imprisonment because of the suspection that he 'must have known' about the smuggling.

amazing how people can be convicted with no evidence, and others found innocent on lack of evidence when its plain as day they were guilty (the policemans son who murdered another policeman in full view of umpteen witnesses who were to scared to testify and then he ran away to malaysia for 6 months)

[LaoPo]

source:

www.RITRO.com (2003)

about Machiel Kuyt

*************************************************************

The discussion on the Thai judicial system and prisons has flared up again in recent weeks in the Netherlands. One specific case has been brought into the media over the last few weeks and I have to say the facts of this particular case are horrifying. In 1997 Machiel Kuijt, a Dutch citizen, was arrested on his way to the airport, he was suspected of possession of drugs. Although no drugs were found on him, he was arrested and forced to confess. His former girlfriend had been placed in custody for the possession of drugs and his involvement with this woman was the sole reason why Kuijt was arrested. The charges were aiding and abetting a drugs smuggler, while in fact the man no longer was seeing this woman and he stated he knew nothing about the narcotics. A statement Mr. Kuijt's former girlfriend confirmed, however Kuijt was placed in a Thai jail cell awaiting some form of justice.

After almost six years imprisonment, in March 2002, a Thai judge acquitted Kuijt for his non-existent role in this particular case. No big deal, he goes free now right? Wrong! Kuijt was denied his freedom awaiting an appeal, which took place on October 31 this year. No one was notified of said appeal, since it was scheduled for mid November, and not even Mr. Kuijt's Thai lawyer was present in the courtroom because the authorities neglected to inform him. Kuijt's acquittal was retracted by the Thai judge and changed to a life sentence, while in fact he was cleared on all charges based on the exact same evidence only a year ago. Of course Kuijt will appeal this judgement, but in the mean time he has been transferred to the Bang Kwang prison, the Bangkok Hilton.

Dutch government officials are outraged at this miscarriage of justice and some even advise Her Majesty the Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands not to go through with her planned visit to His Majesty the King Bhumibol of Thailand, although others think she may be able to help his case if she does.This case is not unique, and we should not forget that. Many innocent people are imprisoned or sentenced to death for narcotics related crimes they did not commit in countries like Thailand where the conditions of prison cells are inhuman.

*************************************************************

He's now jailed for 9 years already.

LaoPo

[sriracha john]

No one was notified of said appeal, since it was scheduled for mid November, and not even Mr. Kuijt's Thai lawyer was present in the courtroom because the authorities neglected to inform him.

Amazing... Incredible... A VERY important appeal hearing and they don't inform the defendent's lawyer about it??

Thank you very much for the background info, LaoPo.

Thank you also for the article about the debate in the Dutch Parliment. It IS a difficult discussion and both sides have their valid points. A perplexing dilemma...

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Have you seen anything about what his original sentence was when he was convicted in 1997? Was it less than a life sentence? If so, it's absolutely incredible the judge in 2002 not only reversed the acquital, but increased the sentence from the original trial.

Have you seen why he was travelling with his ex-girlfriend at the airport if they had broken up earlier? Where were they going? To the Netherlands?

Since the time of the article, have the two countries signed an extradition treaty?

Edited January 26, 2006 by sriracha john

[gburns57au]

I am not judging here anything, however, since even the Queen was involved it appears that the guy is indeed innocent...

well of course....makes perfect sense....

Have you seen why he was travelling with his ex-girlfriend at the airport if they had broken up earlier? Where were they going? To the Netherlands?

That would be my question, You are getting better at this SJ.....

It does make me laugh that the Dutch wants their laws and penalties to apply in Thailand....A lot of people were asking for the same thing in the recent Singapore hanging case...

When in Rome ????

[sriracha john]

That would be my question, You are getting better at this SJ.....

It does make me laugh that the Dutch wants their laws and penalties to apply in Thailand....A lot of people were asking for the same thing in the recent Singapore hanging case...

It seems you're getting worse (if that's possible) at this, gburns

Twisting an extradition treaty into something it is not....

insulting HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands...

what's next? would you say the same of Thai Royalty?

[Jai Dee]

Ahem...

[gburns57au]

It seems you're getting worse (if that's possible) at this, gburns

Twisting an extradition treaty into something it is not....

insulting HM Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands...

what's next? would you say the same of Thai Royalty?

Darn, I have to retract my statement now

I didnt insult the Queen....I was commenting on the remark that LaoPo made....which was "since the Queen was involved then he must be innocent"....if it was not a tongue in cheek comment then it was a totally ridiculous comment to make.

the article I made comment to was not about an extradition treaty. it was about the Dutch asking for Dutch Justice system to apply in Thailand...

Please do not twist what I say.....

[Abandon]

No one is asking to apply an outside countries laws inside Thailand.

The fact is that for almost all (UK being a notable exception) developed countries when a prisoner convicted in Thailand is repatriated to their home country to serve out their sentence they are required to serve a minimum of half the remaining sentence. But what happens is the countries judicial system will quietly re-sentence after a short period of time, which inevitably means that the prisoner has already served more thatn what they would have had they been convicted of that crime in that country.

In short this means that a country applies its own judicial yardstick after the prisoner has been repatriatd. While in Thailand there is no attempt to apply outside laws to the Thai system, other than an obligatory protest of the death sentence (which is not applied to foreigners anyway).

This is known by the Thai authorities and is one of those 'blind eye' things ... so long as they maintain a rep. for lifetime punishment. Since this happens with most developed countries including the Netherlands, it was not such a strange thing to ask for.

[LaoPo]

I have a couple of questions, if you don't mind.

Have you seen anything about what his original sentence was when he was convicted in 1997? Was it less than a life sentence? If so, it's absolutely incredible the judge in 2002 not only reversed the acquital, but increased the sentence from the original trial.

Have you seen why he was travelling with his ex-girlfriend at the airport if they had broken up earlier? Where were they going? To the Netherlands?

Since the time of the article, have the two countries signed an extradition treaty?

SJ: in answer to some of your questions, please read below:

*************************************

STORY: MACHIEL KUIJT (‘excerpts’ translated from Dutch family/friends’/foundation website)

1. 1997: than 29 yr old Machiel Kuijt was on holiday in Thailand, a.o. visiting his 2 daughters which he had with his former Thai ex-gf Linda(Pramoonchakka). De relation ended 1 ½ years before.

On April 16th 1997 he went in a taxi to the airport in BKK together with an Italian friend, Marco Valerie, when he was arrested by the Police.

2. It was found out that the ex-gf of Machiel had been arrested before that. She carried, together with her brother, 748 grams of Heroine. Linda was sentenced to more than 33 years imprisonment. Drugs or traces of drugs were never found on Machiel.

3. After 5 years, 11 March 2002, the case was brought to court. Machiel Kuijt and Marco Valerie* were both declared innocent.

The prosecuter however appealed for a Higher Court and awaiting this appeal Michael had to stay in Klong Prem jail.

4. Without any further hearing (of Kuijt) by the Judge, Michael Kuijt hears, on 31 October 2003, more than 1 ½ years (see 3) later, the sentence:

Lifetime imprisonment.

The fact that Michael went to visit his ex-girlfriend (mother of his 2 daughters) is enough ‘evidence’ for the Judge (that he was involved/must have known –LaoPo-).

(The ex-gf/mother of Kuijt’s daughters pleaded him innocent and not knowing about her drugs traffic in an earlier stage –LaoPo-).

* Marco Valerie was set free later as far as I know.

****************************************

I would like to add:

* I have no personal 'judgement' about this case since I have NO knowledge of the real details.

* Queen Beatrix is the 'Head of State' in The Netherlands; she is always independent and stands ABOVE any Political Party and will never express a personal opninion about any 'case' in public. It is therefore exceptional that she 'supposedly' expressed her concerns about the 'Kuijt' case during her Offical Visit to Thailand.

*My quote -below- was based on her concerns:

"I am not judging here anything, however, since even the Queen was involved it appears that the guy is indeed innocent... "

*but I also wrote:

"IF he is innocent....." I didn't say, like gburns57au quotes: "he must be innocent"....

gburns57au: please do not twist what I say.....exactly your words. No offence meant though.

* I don't know where the 2 guys were travelling to; I suppose Kuijt was intending to fly back to Holland.

*Extradition Treaty: I am not sure (but don't think so) if Thailand/Holland signed the treaty already.

Many countries have signed an Extradition Treaty amongst each other.

LaoPo

[gburns57au]

LaoPo

This was the line I was referring to....I misread the source though, sorry

Prison sentences meted out abroad could for instance be lowered to accommodate Dutch legal practices.

and to answer this one

since even the Queen was involved it appears that the guy is indeed innocent...

even to say the guy appears innocent because of the Queens involvement is a totally bizarre comment but the use of the word INDEED....carries the same weight as saying MUST. I think it is very noble for the Queen to take an interest in one of her people being imprisoned under what appears to be very dubious circumstances...I didnt see anything to suggest that she actually expressed her concerns, and I note your use of the word supposedly, I suspect she may have done in an informal manner....which due to to protocol would be about the best she could do....The political ministers may have made a more formal approach.

[Wes Turner]

Poor guy even if guilty but especially if innocent.

[LaoPo]

LaoPo

This was the line I was referring to....I misread the source though, sorry

Prison sentences meted out abroad could for instance be lowered to accommodate Dutch legal practices.

and to answer this one

since even the Queen was involved it appears that the guy is indeed innocent...***

even to say the guy appears innocent because of the Queens involvement is a totally bizarre comment but the use of the word INDEED....carries the same weight as saying MUST. I think it is very noble for the Queen to take an interest in one of her people being imprisoned under what appears to be very dubious circumstances...I didnt see anything to suggest that she actually expressed her concerns, and I note your use of the word supposedly, I suspect she may have done in an informal manner....which due to to protocol would be about the best she could do....The political ministers may have made a more formal approach.

As you might have read I also wrote, following my 'bizarre' comment (above):

***"IF he is innocent......."

Please, again, using YOUR words: "Please do not twist my words" or take them out of context.

But. let's not fight over some words here, since it is not worth it; English is not my Mothers' tongue and will never be, however I do my best!

I was just trying to renew the attention for the case of MACHIEL KUIJT since it 'appears' that justice is not done properly here....it 'appears' so.

LaoPo

[sriracha john]

1. 1997: than 29 yr old Machiel Kuijt was on holiday in Thailand, a.o. visiting his 2 daughters which he had with his former Thai ex-gf Linda(Pramoonchakka). De relation ended 1 ½ years before.

On April 16th 1997 he went in a taxi to the airport in BKK together with an Italian friend, Marco Valerie, when he was arrested by the Police.

gburns57au: please do not twist what I say.....exactly your words. No offence meant though.

Thank you very, very much for the additional information, LaoPo. The more that is revealed, the more incredible his situation becomes... as he wasn't with her when she was arrested with the drugs.

.... and makes his current situation even more outrageous.

as for gburns comments... nevermind responding, LaoPo. You're not alone as other posters have the same problem with him. Probably best to just let him debate with himself, although I know it's difficult to avoid responding to his inflammatory comments... I'm guilty myself.

[gburns57au]

As you might have read I also wrote, following my 'bizarre' comment (above):

***"IF he is innocent......."

Please, again, using YOUR words: "Please do not twist my words" or take them out of context.

But. let's not fight over some words here, since it is not worth it; English is not my Mothers' tongue and will never be, however I do my best!

I was just trying to renew the attention for the case of MACHIEL KUIJT since it 'appears' that justice is not done properly here....it 'appears' so.

LaoPo

LaoPo.... I was not aware that English is not your mother language, Your posts could suggest different. So to that point I will take it no further....

If the story is as reported then it would seem that there is an injustice....However we dont know anything more than has been reported....it would be interesting to hear what has happened since the Queens visit, if it was discussed at all by anyone and what action has since been taken by the Dutch Government....

as for gburns comments... nevermind responding, LaoPo. You're not alone as other posters have the same problem with him. Probably best to just let him debate with himself, although I know it's difficult to avoid responding to his inflammatory comments... I'm guilty myself.

Very good at calling the kettle black arent you mate...

Yes you are guilty.....of making inflammatory comments also. Just like the one above.

Some open their mouths to speak....others just to change feet....

[LaoPo]

LaoPo.... I was not aware that English is not your mother language, Your posts could suggest different. So to that point I will take it no further....

If the story is as reported then it would seem that there is an injustice....However we dont know anything more than has been reported....it would be interesting to hear what has happened since the Queens visit, if it was discussed at all by anyone and what action has since been taken by the Dutch Government....

1. thank you for the compliment; I do my best

2. Well, that's the point here; in this particular case I fear almost nothing has happened after the Queens visit.

Like in many other cases I am under the impression that Machiel Kuijt's case was also 'drying out' of news, so to speak.

The Thai government promised to bring the case to the Supreme Court before the summer, after the visit of the Queen. That did not happen.

The latest is that the Dutch Minister of Foreign Affairs said that the case will hopefully come to an end before the end of this year....2006.

Personally, I am under the impression that the Thai Government is well aware about the mis-judgement (IF there was one...) but they don't know (yet) how to avoid 'losing face' here and waiting for a right moment when the attention is low....and put him on a flight out of the country.....just my 2 cents though.

If... just IF that's the case...the lower the press-attention...the better for Machiel Kuijt...who knows

For us, Farang people, it is SO difficult to know what's in the minds of Far-Eastern people in general; we will never understand completely, I'm afraid

LaoPo

[APK]

*Extradition Treaty: I am not sure (but don't think so) if Thailand/Holland signed the treaty already.

Minister of foreign affairs Bot and Thai ambassador Thana have signed the extradiction treaty in august 2004 in The Hague. The restrictions are that the prisoner has served at least 8 years of his sentence in a Thai jail and there are no more appeals running.

The problem is that Machiel Kuijt did appeal again, since he wants to prove that he is innocent. If he hadn't appealed again he probably would've been home by now.....

Source: http://www.machielkuijt.nl/

[LaoPo]

*Extradition Treaty: I am not sure (but don't think so) if Thailand/Holland signed the treaty already.

Minister of foreign affairs Bot and Thai ambassador Thana have signed the extradiction treaty in august 2004 in The Hague. The restrictions are that the prisoner has served at least 8 years of his sentence in a Thai jail and there are no more appeals running.

The problem is that Machiel Kuijt did appeal again, since he wants to prove that he is innocent. If he hadn't appealed again he probably would've been home by now.....

Source: http://www.machielkuijt.nl/

Thank you for your input, APK, I didn't know the treaty was signed (2004 already...).

It's a high risk, if I read correctly, Machiel Kuijt is 'playing' here but admire his guts, doing so.

LaoPo

[dannishgung]

Another amazingly rediculous story out of this kingdom of thailand. I will forward this story to my friend who is a cheif of a political and human right watch dog in Sweden. Hope he will write some articles or reports on this matter or at least crack some jokes about this country in the international press.

To me, this case won't even make it to police station in all the "Far Eastern people" nations as LaoPo called it, with exception of Thailand or maybe Myanmar. Even in the harshest Singapore, where they just executed an Austarlian man for drug traffiking, it won't make any case at all either with this kind of evidence which is non-existant.

To me, maybe at first the police and the judges just tried to extort some quick cash from this poor Dutchy boy by forcing him to plead guilty of knowing his wife doing drug traffiking, but they never thought he is such a tough guy, who wanted to play his own game and insist true justice. Then the news got too big and out of control, then the police and judges had to save thier monkey faces and had to keep him in jail for life. This is a real possiblity that it ended up like this. have to remember this thailand is probably the most amazingly rediculous country in the world.

[LaoPo]

MACHIEL KUIJT

Update:

The Thai Supreme Court has finally sentenced Machiel Kuijt to 'life imprisonment'.

His fellow accomplished, an Australian guy, was FREED (accused of exactly the same).

The verdict was read in the presence of the Dutch Ambassador

The decision/verdict however, was already made around 26/28 february and put in a sealed envelop which was opened the 27th march...

Although both accused (and an Italian guy who was sent back to Italy much earlier) didn't know about the 'crime committed', (by an ex-girlfriend of Kuijt) and which was confirmed by the ex-girlfriend and her friend as well as the taxidriver, Thai justice believed 'they must have known'.

Since Kuijt is already in Bangkok-jail for 9 years there is a possibility that he will be send back home within a period of 6-18 months according to the treaty between the 2 countries: Thailand and The Netherlands.

It's a very strange case and many people as well as Dutch Goverment authorities are convinced of his innocense.

The weird thing is that Kuijt could already have been out of Thai jail (and in Holland) if he would have pleeded guilty, but he refused to do so.

Also strange is that especially countries like Australia, the USA and the UK do a LOT more for convicted citizens that The Netherlands. The 'behind the curtains' pressure and treaties between these countries work far better than with other countries.

It is known that US and UK citizens are 'sent back' within 3-6 months to their respective countries.

The 'Machiel Kuijt-committee' and family put their hope now on the state visit of Queen Beatrix in june for the 60th year-as-King of HM the King; maybe something can be done to have MK sent back to Dutch prison earlier than the 6-12 months period.

However, it seems that there is a 13-headed commission, of wise men/women, who decides this. If such a decision is negative....NO REASON have to be published and he has to stay in Thailand

LaoPo

[fanta rood]

Column of Peter R. de Vries in a dutch newspaper

Compassion with Machiel Kuijt undeserved

I weet not how you fare, but I am jank-verhalen around amsterdammer the Machiel Kuijt, who has been condemned in thailand for drug trafficking, considerable zat. I astonish myself also hoezeer the Dutch population is, but certainly also measure the media able with two half-measures. If in the Netherlands a drug trafficking ear is taken up, one grumbles concerning the low sentences, annoys oneself one to lawyers who mededogen pleads and the prisons hotels is reviling called. But is abroad taken up as accidentally a Dutchman for drug trafficking and is stopped after a condemnation to lifelong cell sentence in a strict prison, is pick up gaar. Then the ambassador is called directly on the matje, runs up our Minister for Foreign Affairs personally and even queen Beatrix during state visits is used as a lawsuit deliveryman of new treaties and gratiemogelijkheden who must bring the convict as soon as possible on Schiphol. The jurisdiction in such a country is vervolgens depicted as a cheap headstock cupboard show and hulpcomités's is set up with Member of Parliament oaths, confessed Dutch and euro members of Parliament as members of recommendation. Last weak it was also home. In spite of the personal intervention of queen Beatrix Machiel Kuijt still at home and cassation request also its is not against the sentence is treated. The Thai government strikes as moreover calmly with signing the new treaty that exchange of gedetineerden possible makes and that delay is obviously everyone worrisome. Minister for Foreign Affairs bone - no effort is surplus - announced then that next week himself, however, just as to thailand wants fly to sign the treaty there. In the meantime the mother of Machiel with its two young children became by the Executive Board of twentse hotel prayed Boekelo festively entertained just as on breathes to come of this ' chafing situation '. In many publications it is milked dry that Machiel do not have dochtertjes long have been seen and that them now a ' anniversary must celebrate without papa '. Yes, thus I know still a couple thousand gedetineerden in the Netherlands, whose woman and children as a matter of fact are never invited in hotelweekendje on strengths come. It is time once a couple put down things clearly. Thailand is extraordinarily strict on drugs and proclaims that loudly and clearly if you come in the country. The jurisdiction is there not halfly this way backward such as many partisans of Kuijt want occur do, but consequent. Although most of the people do not know the exact facts, one adopts nevertheless unthinking that Kuijt victim of a judicial misleading are. Welnu, in Dutch prisons hundreds drugsrelated gedetineerden who are as many proof or perhaps even, however, less, are against. Those cannot receive moreover to the current link - such as Machiel - press and interview give to pity itself concerning the procedure, but that terzijde. He who in the Netherlands as a denying verdachte in its despair a Member of Parliament summons aid, standaardbriefje recover that ' our jurisdiction is independent ' and political therefore ' aloof must itself keep '. Much sterkte further! Linda, the girlfriend of Machiel and mother of its children, had a half kilo heroin in its possession at its arrest. Kuijt themselves had nothing at itself, emphasise its voorvechters, but in the Netherlands also legio - denying - drug trafficking ears have been condemned to high sentences without they were red-handed caught with their fingers in the cocaine powder. There I never test the queen. And then still what. Although Kuijt are especially portrayed as a breakdown bird which is not possible without its dochtertjes, he does not stand in the from Amsterdam onderwereld confessed if lekkertje. have you there to character today never one concerning read or heard, because dàt come Machiel-Moet-Vrij-Beweging of course of are not appropriate. But Kuijt are an acquaintance ' old ' of the police force. As from 1984 he has been regular with justice in contact for swindle, (zware)geweldpleging, the law weapons and ammunition and also because of drugsdelikten and a time because of participation to a criminal organisation. Now I hurry myself say itself that this past is no proof for its debt in thailand, but it does not remind to believe that also unthinkingly Machiel were only an innocent tourist, who has been taken up ' zomaar ' and it has been condemned by a couple senile Thai judges. In the from Amsterdam onderwereld one laughs oneself the ' leplazerus ' concerning the question, wrote an old ' knowledge ' of Kuijt me poosje suffered: How do Machiel get it for each other that there no critical question are put, does its mother in each tallow show sit and even the queen for him on the barricades goes?

Peter R. de Vries, Telegraaf op zondag nr. 12

Please bear with me and forgive my horrible english. No just kidding I ran it through an online dutch-english translator. The guy is a convicted felon. Commiting multiple robberies, fraude, abuse, drug related activities and even participating in a criminal organisation. What a coincidence. Also you (we) here only the dutch side of the story. Wait example. Its happening in the case of natalee holloway too. Dr. Phil is abusing his power to influence people into believing that its the dutch governments fault on how things goes. Hes twisting things, telling half truths and the people buy it.

Same same goes for our media. What do we hear? Machiel Kuyt is innocent, he didnt have coke, thailand is corrupt, its thailands fault. Do we hear hes a convicted fellon? Do we hear interviews with the thai people working on the case?

[fanta rood]

No its not proof that what he did in the past is also evidence for this case. But if you hear only negative things of Machiel Kuyt it would shape your opinion about him. You start believing hmm maybe this guy isnt right after all. He will lose sympathy. The media will lose interest and everything is fine again

[LaoPo]

Please bear with me and forgive my horrible english. No just kidding I ran it through an online dutch-english translator. The guy is a convicted felon. Commiting multiple robberies, fraude, abuse, drug related activities and even participating in a criminal organisation. What a coincidence. Also you (we) here only the dutch side of the story. Wait example. Its happening in the case of natalee holloway too. Dr. Phil is abusing his power to influence people into believing that its the dutch governments fault on how things goes. Hes twisting things, telling half truths and the people buy it.

Same same goes for our media. What do we hear? Machiel Kuyt is innocent, he didnt have coke, thailand is corrupt, its thailands fault. Do we hear hes a convicted fellon? Do we hear interviews with the thai people working on the case?

The article you quoted of the Dutch crime-fighter Peter R. de Vries is an old article and was discussed just 1 hour ago in a Dutch TV-program about the case of Machiel Kuijt.

The content of that article appear to be NOT TRUE and as a matter of fact the Dutch lawyer of Machiel Kuijt (a top-lawyer) explained that last year, BECAUSE of that particular article by De Vries, the family asked and RECEIVED an OFFICIAL declaration of the Dutch Government (Foreign and Justice department) by means of the Amsterdam Mayor Mr. Cohen, that Machiel Kuijt does NOT HAVE or HAD A CRIMINAL RECORD in The Netherlands AND THEREFORE IS NOT A 'CONVICTED FELON' as you describe it.

Please do not write things you have not researched and which are completely false.

Apart from that the content of said article has NOTHING, but NOTHING to do with the case in Thailand.

LaoPo

Edited March 27, 2006 by LaoPo

[fanta rood]

Ok you are right. My fault. I'm easily influenced too =)

I take back my words and apologize.

[LaoPo]

MACHIEL KUIJT's case in short:

1. On 16th april 1997 MK was arrested in a taxi with an Italian friend Marco Valeri back on his way to the airport; he had been on holiday in Thailand and had a new girlfriend. He had 2 small daughters* with a Thai ex-girlfriend 'Linda'. His relation with her ended 1 1/2 years before his arrest. He visited a.o. his daughters during that holiday.

* his daughters are in Holland now with their grandparents (MK's parents)

2. Earlier his ex-girlfriend was arrested, together with her brother in possession of 748 grams of heroin. She was sentenced to 33 years (Machiel to life... )

3. His ex-girlfriend, the taxidriver and Police-officers also claimed that MK had absolutely nothing to do with the crime.

4. On march 11th 2002, Machiel Kuijt and Marco Valerie hear the verdict: NOT GUILTY. Marco Valerie was allowed to leave the country. I don't know exactly when.

5. The Prosecutor appealed and MK had to go back to jail, awaiting the appeal.

6. WITHOUT any further hearing, MK hears the verdict of the Higher Court on 31st october 2003: Life Imprisonment.

The fact that MK visited the house of his ex-girlfriend (to see his daughters) is 'proof' enough that he must have known about the heroin..

The claims from the ex-gf and the policeofficers (see 3) were not included in the verdict anymore...

Note: I spoke earlier about an Australian guy who was also present at the verdict of the Supreme Court yesterday. (A Dutch reporter told so, present at the Supreme Court...(which was in fact a very small room with a lot of reporters).

I have no knowledge about the case and this Australian guy; I'm sorry, it could have been another crime-case since all information about Machiel Kuijt speak about him and an Italian guy, not Australian, so I'm confused about this.

Edit: The Dutch press speak about an Australian guy, connected to the case, and who was released; so now I'm completely confused whether the guy is Italian or Australian; maybe because he has an Italian name....

LaoPo

Edited March 28, 2006 by LaoPo

[APK]

Column of Peter R. de Vries in a dutch newspaper

Compassion with Machiel Kuijt undeserved

Please bear with me and forgive my horrible english. No just kidding I ran it through an online dutch-english translator. The guy is a convicted felon.

[cut]

Same same goes for our media. What do we hear? Machiel Kuyt is innocent, he didnt have coke, thailand is corrupt, its thailands fault. Do we hear hes a convicted fellon? Do we hear interviews with the thai people working on the case?

It wasn't coke he was allegedly smuggling but heroin.

What's the sodding reason for using a completely unreadable online translation service anyway?

The writer of the article suggest that there are plenty of Dutch citizens in Dutch jails without 'having their fingers in a jar of coke when arrested'.

That's a load of <deleted>.

The (lack of) evidence in this case would never have been accepted in a Dutch court.

[APK]

6. WITHOUT any further hearing, MK hears the verdict of the Higher Court on 31st october 2003: Life Imprisonment.

The fact that MK visited the house of his ex-girlfriend (to see his daughters) is 'proof' enough that he must have known about the heroin..

The claims from the ex-gf and the policeofficers (see 3) were not included in the verdict anymore...

And wasn't 2003 the year of Thaksin's war on against drugs?

Edited March 28, 2006 by APK

[sriracha john]

Thank you LaoPo for the updates on this very interesting case...