Does Being Called Farang Bother You?

[TommoPhysicist]

ok.. there is a few different words being mixed together here. "Meung" and "goo" are often used by thais when talking to each other when they are very close as in friends/family. They are the equiv of "you" and "me" but in a VERY informal manner. If used with someone you are not close to then it's seen as very rude to be so informal with them

Mung, Goo, wohry and wa are only used between close male friends of equal status (or gang members) unless looking to start a fight. Never used in mixed company at all.

Now, "mun" is quite a different story. "mun" is the equivalent of "it". This is not commonly used by even very close thais to refer to each other. I often hear "mun" used to refer to westerners and it goes to show the level of respect the give to us. I would much rather be referred to as "farang" when they are speaking about me than "mun". No one calls you "mun". They refer to you as "mun" (it).

'Man' and 'farang' are the same, used by anyone in a derogatory manner to downgrade someone from the status of 'person' to 'thing'

Edited September 13, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Berkshire]

I'd say farangs in Thailand have about the same rights as foreigners, or non-citizens, in most countries, if not more.

Very funny indeed...

Ahhh, so you're one of those who believes that farangs in Thailand are second-class citizens. No rights. Discriminated against routinely. Looked down by everyone. Constantly pissed on by the locals. Treated worse than pond scum.

Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. I don't agree. And no way I'd live in any country if I felt that way. So why in <deleted>'s name are you in Thailand??

[Jayman]

Mung, Goo, wohry and wa are only used between close male friends of equal status (or gang members) unless looking to start a fight. Never used in mixed company at all.

I disagree that only men use this. I also hgear this used in Issarn all the time with family and close friends.

Now, "mun" is quite a different story. "mun" is the equivalent of "it". This is not commonly used by even very close thais to refer to each other. I often hear "mun" used to refer to westerners and it goes to show the level of respect the give to us. I would much rather be referred to as "farang" when they are speaking about me than "mun". No one calls you "mun". They refer to you as "mun" (it).

'Man' and 'farang' are the same, used by anyone in a derogatory manner to downgrade someone from the status of 'person' to 'thing'

Someone might call you "farang" but no one will call you "mun". They are not the same at all.

[Jayman]

I'd say farangs in Thailand have about the same rights as foreigners, or non-citizens, in most countries, if not more.

Very funny indeed...

Ahhh, so you're one of those who believes that farangs in Thailand are second-class citizens. No rights. Discriminated against routinely. Looked down by everyone. Constantly pissed on by the locals. Treated worse than pond scum.

Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. I don't agree. And no way I'd live in any country if I felt that way. So why in <deleted>'s name are you in Thailand??

yes.. if you feel that way go home ... what a stupid comment yet again by those that use that as the "go to" to end any argument.

[rgs2001uk]

ok.. there is a few different words being mixed together here. "Meung" and "goo" are often used by thais when talking to each other when they are very close as in friends/family. They are the equiv of "you" and "me" but in a VERY informal manner. If used with someone you are not close to then it's seen as very rude to be so informal with them

Mung, Goo, wohry and wa are only used between close male friends of equal status (or gang members) unless looking to start a fight. Never used in mixed company at all.

Now, "mun" is quite a different story. "mun" is the equivalent of "it". This is not commonly used by even very close thais to refer to each other. I often hear "mun" used to refer to westerners and it goes to show the level of respect the give to us. I would much rather be referred to as "farang" when they are speaking about me than "mun". No one calls you "mun". They refer to you as "mun" (it).

'Man' and 'farang' are the same, used by anyone in a derogatory manner to downgrade someone from the status of 'person' to 'thing'

"Mung, Goo, wohry and wa are only used between close male friends'

Strange, I hear my mrs using these when she talks to her sisters.

[Jingthing]

I'd say farangs in Thailand have about the same rights as foreigners, or non-citizens, in most countries, if not more.

Very funny indeed...

Ahhh, so you're one of those who believes that farangs in Thailand are second-class citizens. No rights. Discriminated against routinely. Looked down by everyone. Constantly pissed on by the locals. Treated worse than pond scum.

Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. I don't agree. And no way I'd live in any country if I felt that way. So why in <deleted>'s name are you in Thailand??

It is not actually the black and white situation that you insist on promoting. Many of us prefer to see things as they are in a more REALITY based outlook.

[chotthee]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Edited September 13, 2012 by chotthee

[TommoPhysicist]

Someone might call you "farang" but no one will call you "mun". They are not the same at all.

Nobody I know would call me either.

As for what you allow people to call you, up to you.

[skybluestu]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Black people are usually called Farang dum. Farang doesn't come from the word France.

[Jingthing]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

I don't know. In my view, f-rang is racial and cultural. I don't think that Thais generally call a black African f-rang, do they? I think more likely a black man from one of the creamy countries like Canada would be more likely to be called f-rang based on cultural factors. Edited September 13, 2012 by Jingthing

[eeeya]

Sorry if its been mentioned already but as farang is used for white skinned foreigners there is also

"keek" which groups together all middle eastern countries and india, pakistan.

Uses in the same way as farang.

[Jayman]

Someone might call you "farang" but no one will call you "mun". They are not the same at all.

Nobody I know would call me either.

As for what you allow people to call you, up to you.

you are missing the point... it is grammatically incorrect to call someone "mun". "mun" is used grammatically to refer to someone. "farang" can be used grammatically both to address a foreigner or to refer to them.

I have never heard a Thai call anyone "mun" but only refer to them as "mun".

Your response is quite classic though, thanks.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Jayman

[hookedondhamma]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

I don't know. In my view, f-rang is racial and cultural. I don't think that Thais generally call a black African f-rang, do they? I think more likely a black man from one of the creamy countries like Canada would be more likely to be called f-rang based on cultural factors.

I've only been called 'farang dam' once. The other 99% of the time I've just been called 'falang' or mistaken as a half-breed. As for the man who called me 'farang dam', it was no surprise he was quite the idiot, and was always quick to make comments about people of darker skin color. Somewhere along the line he forgot to take a look in the mirror and realized he is the color he despises so much. Ignorance has no boundaries.

I don't think thais are too well-versed on culture outside of their borders. The thais who called me 'farang' never knew where I came from beforehand, but did later on when asking about it. That was followed scratching heads (which more than likely came from breaking a pre-conceived thought about 'creamy countries') and some asking for info on how to go there. Go figure.

Edited September 13, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[hookedondhamma]

Sorry if its been mentioned already but as farang is used for white skinned foreigners there is also

"keek" which groups together all middle eastern countries and india, pakistan.

Uses in the same way as farang.

The first time I heard that word used here I asked myself internally 'Did I really just hear that?' I've never heard any of my Arabic-speaking friends use words for thais, other than 'thai.'

Culture shock came in many different forms back then.

One thing that still surprises me though is I have yet to hear any derogatory labels about thais in their own language, and even if there were, they'd probably be laughed about ... after the offender got some 'thai hospitality' (a 10 to 1 beatdown).

Edited September 13, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[Naam]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Black people are usually called Farang dum. Farang doesn't come from the word France.

arabic "feranji" was originally meant for "franks" (not necessarily French but central Europeans), derived from arabic is the identical Farsi, Urdu and Hindi expression "ferangi" which means "foreigner" (used for caucasians only).

and puleeze... don't come up with wiki or similar websites and there uneducated fairy tales.

[Naam]

and now dear children we proceed with the technical details of "how to change a lightbulb"

[Jingthing]

Also similar word in the Ethiopian language meaning creamy foreigners: ferenji

[skybluestu]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Black people are usually called Farang dum. Farang doesn't come from the word France.

arabic "feranji" was originally meant for "franks" (not necessarily French but central Europeans), derived from arabic is the identical Farsi, Urdu and Hindi expression "ferangi" which means "foreigner" (used for caucasians only).

and puleeze... don't come up with wiki or similar websites and there uneducated fairy tales.

Like I said, it doesn't come from the word France.

Sent from my GT-I9003 using Thaivisa Connect App

[Jayman]

Why does Thai call a black man Farang?

He is not even white.

Farang comes from the word France.

Black people are usually called Farang dum. Farang doesn't come from the word France.

arabic "feranji" was originally meant for "franks" (not necessarily French but central Europeans), derived from arabic is the identical Farsi, Urdu and Hindi expression "ferangi" which means "foreigner" (used for caucasians only).

and puleeze... don't come up with wiki or similar websites and there uneducated fairy tales.

ohhh please sir naam... can I pleeeesee post from wiki

Etymology and related words

It is generally believed that the word farang originated with the Indo-Persian word farangi, meaning foreigner. This in turn comes from the word Frank via the Arabic wordfirinjīyah, which was used to refer to the Franks, a West Germanic tribe that became the biggest political power in Western Europe during the early Middle Ages and from which France derives its name. Due to the fact that the Frankish Empire ruled Western Europe for centuries, the word "Frank" became deeply associated, by the Eastern Europeans and Middle Easterners, with Latins who professed the Roman Catholic faith. By another account the word comes through Arabic afranj, and there are quite a few articles about this. One of the most detailed treatments of the subject is by Rashid al-din Fazl Allâh.^[4]

In either case the original word was pronounced parangiar in Tamil, or pfirangi in Sanskrit and entered Khmer as barang and Malay as ferenggi.

Oh, but wait.... isn't that the same "uneducated fairy tales" you just posted?

As if any of this has anything to do with how someone would feel being called "farang"

Maybe take the etymology talk here

ohh.. I forgot to add... if you don't like it then you should just go back home.

Edited September 13, 2012 by Jayman

[I Like Thai]

There are probably people in the world that would get upset at being referred to as Caucasian. i think the resentment lies within the person that feels as though they are being discriminated against more-so than the person using the term.

Me for instance, I am white. I will never be insulted at being called white, being called whitey, pork or any other names causes me no offense and never will. Even being called Paddy or anything else will not upset me.

That's a good point. And I think it's something that is beyond the comprehension of many here. For instance, in the USA, some whites like to compare being called "honky" or "cracker" with the infamous "N" word. Well it's really not the same, is it? In order for a racial term to be truly offensive, there has to be a historical context, i.e., past history of racial oppression. Whites have never been discriminated the same way as blacks in America. Not even close.

So in Thailand, I try to be patient with farangs complaining about the word "farang," yet, I find it almost comical when compared to other racial injustices around the world. If anything, the word "farang" denotes privilege and international worldliness, among other things. Of course, that is changing slowly as farangs may no longer be looked at that way...except maybe amongst the peasant class.

But I agree with you that those who feel resentment are more apt to have internal issues rather than anything real.

Good post.

Us "whites" were never "black ivory". We were never slaves. We were never "buck niggers" who were used solely to maintain the size of our plantation owners' slave quotient.

By all accounts, the Royal Court of Ayuthaya welcomed us "whites" with open arms when we first arrived. Read the history books and you'll see that Thais were actually very accommodating when we first turned up.

Any racism that you may feel the word FARANG connotes probably stems from (Facist Dictator) Phibun Songkran's nationalistic reforms in the 1930s and 1940s.

http://en.wikipedia....Phibunsongkhram

Maybe we look at the "White World " with rose tinted glasses. back when Ireland had a famine, millions of Irish emigrated to America. The majority of these were peasant farmers. When they arrived on American shores they were used to build roads and railways, in similar and worse conditions that the African Slaves found themselves in.

Most of these immigrants had no money and would have had to sign "Contracts" agreeing to work on the railways/roads etc to pay off their passage once they arrived in America. Because they were white, it wouldn't have been P.C at the time or now to label them then as slaves, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then ...... Peasant immigrants from England, Scotland and Wales would have been in the same situation.

[I Like Thai]

I frequently hear lower classed thais referring to foreigners as "mun". That upsets me much more than being referred to as "farang". I have even heard girls refer to their meal ticket as "mun" only to have the girls mum correct her and say that's not nice.

There are rude and polite people in every society, best option is to avoid the rude and obnoxious ones.

The use of f-rang in Thailand is a SPECIFIC thing and you really can't directly compare it to other words in other countries. If you go to a hospital in Mexico, you are always Senor Such and Such. You aren't El Gringo. If you walk down the street in a provincial area, children don't gather around and point and laugh saying Gringo. Etc. etc. Not the same thing.

When I was a kid growing up in Ireland, it was during the time when American tourists first started to visit. Up until then, we didn't really have a tourist industry and foreigners were a very rare species. When we encountered the American tourists we used to point at them or just stand and stare at them and say to each other " Look at the Yanks" or "There's a busload of Yanks passing by" We never meant any offense using this term and non of the tourists were ever offended by the term either. Nowadays I find that it seems to have become a racist term to many American people.

Why is that ? I think it's because a group of people got together and decided that it should be a Racist term.

Is the word Farang in Thailand now going the same way. Was it always generally an inoffensive term, that is becoming a racist term now. Is it because groups of Farangs on web boards have decided that it should be a racist term and they then strive to inform any visitor to Thailand that it is a Racist term.

For me a word only becomes racist in the context that it is used. If the speaker is intent on being nasty, then it can be used in this manner. But the word itself is not a Racist word.

no, what i am saying is i cannot be bothered to sweat the little stuff.

jesus, you cant win around here

BLASPHEMY

you should be taken out and whipped with a cat o nine tails until the skin is peeled from your back

[Jayman]

There are probably people in the world that would get upset at being referred to as Caucasian. i think the resentment lies within the person that feels as though they are being discriminated against more-so than the person using the term.

Me for instance, I am white. I will never be insulted at being called white, being called whitey, pork or any other names causes me no offense and never will. Even being called Paddy or anything else will not upset me.

That's a good point. And I think it's something that is beyond the comprehension of many here. For instance, in the USA, some whites like to compare being called "honky" or "cracker" with the infamous "N" word. Well it's really not the same, is it? In order for a racial term to be truly offensive, there has to be a historical context, i.e., past history of racial oppression. Whites have never been discriminated the same way as blacks in America. Not even close.

So in Thailand, I try to be patient with farangs complaining about the word "farang," yet, I find it almost comical when compared to other racial injustices around the world. If anything, the word "farang" denotes privilege and international worldliness, among other things. Of course, that is changing slowly as farangs may no longer be looked at that way...except maybe amongst the peasant class.

But I agree with you that those who feel resentment are more apt to have internal issues rather than anything real.

Good post.

Us "whites" were never "black ivory". We were never slaves. We were never "buck niggers" who were used solely to maintain the size of our plantation owners' slave quotient.

By all accounts, the Royal Court of Ayuthaya welcomed us "whites" with open arms when we first arrived. Read the history books and you'll see that Thais were actually very accommodating when we first turned up.

Any racism that you may feel the word FARANG connotes probably stems from (Facist Dictator) Phibun Songkran's nationalistic reforms in the 1930s and 1940s.

http://en.wikipedia....Phibunsongkhram

Maybe we look at the "White World " with rose tinted glasses. back when Ireland had a famine, millions of Irish emigrated to America. The majority of these were peasant farmers. When they arrived on American shores they were used to build roads and railways, in similar and worse conditions that the African Slaves found themselves in.

Most of these immigrants had no money and would have had to sign "Contracts" agreeing to work on the railways/roads etc to pay off their passage once they arrived in America. Because they were white, it wouldn't have been P.C at the time or now to label them then as slaves, but if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, then ...... Peasant immigrants from England, Scotland and Wales would have been in the same situation.

and don't forget the Jews in Egypt... no one paid them to build the pyramids.

http://youtu.be/U0NBZqty1Vg

Edited September 13, 2012 by Jayman

[I Like Thai]

Doesn't bother me, I don't understand Thai.

Even if you do ever understand Thai, don't let it bother you. Avoid rude and obnoxious people and keep the company of nice people, but never let it bother you

Seeing as there are more Thais than farang here in Thailand, is it any wonder I usually hear these words used when Thais refer to other Thais.

You know as well as I there are pronouns used that to the untrained ear may sound derogatory, but when used amongst family or close friends are perfectly accepatable, ai and ee being prime examples.

ok.. there is a few different words being mixed together here. "Meung" and "goo" are often used by thais when talking to each other when they are very close as in friends/family. They are the equiv of "you" and "me" but in a VERY informal manner. If used with someone you are not close to then it's seen as very rude to be so informal with them

Now, "mun" is quite a different story. "mun" is the equivalent of "it". This is not commonly used by even very close thais to refer to each other. I often hear "mun" used to refer to westerners and it goes to show the level of respect the give to us. I would much rather be referred to as "farang" when they are speaking about me than "mun". No one calls you "mun". They refer to you as "mun" (it).

I have been referred to as "Ta Mung" (sic) by many Thais and I have been told many times by many Thais that it means "Big Eyes". They all say that I have very beautiful big blue eyes. I have even noticed that when I first meet Thai people, they immediately look straight at my eyes and look at them longingly ( I know that people with small eyes will reply and advise of the opposite )

A few years back I was in a cosmetic surgeons reception office when three Thai girls came in, they looked straight at my eyes and said hello with a big smile and then went to speak with the receptionist. They were looking through photo books of procedures, chatting away in Thai to each other. At one point whilst speaking with the receptionist, one of the Thai girls turned, looked and pointed directly at me and said something in Thai, the only part that I understood was Ta Mung. The other girls including the receptionist laughed at this. I took it that the girl was saying that she wanted the same eyes as me and I took it as a very nice compliment.

Now, if I hadn't known the big eyes meaning and had read this thread about how derogatory the word mun or mueang was, what might I have done.

Maybe I could have stood up, walked over to where the bunch of rude impudent Thai girls were, then in my best loud and aggressive tone give them a severe tongue lashing in my best speed-ed up English, whilst wagging my finger at them. Then I storm out of the reception never to return. I would have shown them, they will think twice before they are rude to a farang again.

What might have the girls been saying in the reception after I left.

Receptionist: That man of European origin seemed like a very nice man when I spoke with him earlier. He was very polite and friendly and didn't call me the rude and derogatory word (Darling/Honey/Love/Babe/Sheila) one time even.

Thai Girl: Yes, sometimes you meet someone of European origin and they seem to be very nice and polite, but they always end up going crazy for no reason. I try to be polite and nice to them, but it's a waste of time. They all seem to be mentally unbalanced.

P.S: No I didn't pay for any procedure for anyone and yes, I have heard "We always pay, one way or the other" many many times.

[I Like Thai]

Having said that, if a Thai is introduced to you by your real name and still persists in referring to you as "farang", i would also be wondering about that persons manners or education level.

Maybe it's simply that they can't pronounce the name correctly. I find it very difficult to pronounce Thai names. Even when going home, I find it impossible to pronounce the name of the airport. I have tried it many times in Taxis to pronounce it, but I always get a blank confused look. Now I just say "Airport" and don't have any problems. Does the Taxi driver think I am being rude by not saying the name of the airport, after all I have been to Thailand many times and should know the name of the airport by now. None of the drivers ever seem offended by it.

One HUGE reason for this is, that we accept it and even call ourselves that.

If you are a tourist, or you never have any intention to make deep bonds with a thai person, sure, we can laugh it off.

But if anyone want to be a part of a thai family, as is the case for many of us who have a thai girlfriend or a thai wife, we sure should not use the word farang, it will only put a distance between you and the rest of the family, and it will make it easier for some evil minded thais to rip us off, or view us as ATM machines...

I don't understand how being called a Farang, with malice or without would enable a Thai to rip anyone off, or view them as an ATM

P.S. I am new to this forum and haven't fully worked out the quotes yet. If I have inadvertently quoted the wrong person in this post. This is due to my confusion in cutting out text and quotes i didn't want. no offense intended.

[TommoPhysicist]

Now, if I hadn't known the big eyes meaning and had read this thread about how derogatory the word mun or mueang was, what might I have done.

They are calling you Dtaa Nam Ngern" which means 'blue eyes'. Nam Ngern which is usually spoken quicky ...... and to you sounds like 'mung'. Sorry, your poor hearing, doesn't mean they are being rude to you.

OK, not 'big eyes' but 'blue eyes' geddit?

If they wanted to insult you it would be 'Dtaa Luak' which is 'bug eyes'.

Edited September 13, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[I Like Thai]

Now, if I hadn't known the big eyes meaning and had read this thread about how derogatory the word mun or mueang was, what might I have done.

They are calling you Dtaa Nam Ngern" which means 'blue eyes'. Nam Ngern which is usually spoken quicky ...... and to you sounds like 'mung'. Sorry, your poor hearing, doesn't mean they are being rude to you.

OK, not 'big eyes' but 'blue eyes' geddit?

If they wanted to insult you it would be 'Dtaa Luak' which is 'bug eyes'.

I was told that "Ta Mung" means Big eyes in the Issan dialect and in Thai it is "Ta Toe" I've heard this from a few different Thais

Edited September 13, 2012 by I Like Thai

[TommoPhysicist]

I was told that "Ta Mung" means Big eyes in the Issan dialect and in Thai it is "Ta Toe" I've heard this from a few different Thais

Nope, they are having you on .... just checked it out with an Issan speaker, get them to write it down in Thai script.

PS

If you ask a polite Thai person what 'Dtaa Mung' means they will lie to you to protect your feelings.

Better you ask them how to say 'blue eyes' or 'big eyes' to get a truthful answer.

Edited September 13, 2012 by TommoPhysicist

[Jayman]

Now, if I hadn't known the big eyes meaning and had read this thread about how derogatory the word mun or mueang was, what might I have done.

They are calling you Dtaa Nam Ngern" which means 'blue eyes'. Nam Ngern which is usually spoken quicky ...... and to you sounds like 'mung'. Sorry, your poor hearing, doesn't mean they are being rude to you.

OK, not 'big eyes' but 'blue eyes' geddit?

If they wanted to insult you it would be 'Dtaa Luak' which is 'bug eyes'.

I was told that "Ta Mung" means Big eyes in the Issan dialect and in Thai it is "Ta Toe" I've heard this from a few different Thais

surely you must be misunderstanding. I don't even understand how "meung" (the informal way to say you) would even go in your sentence. If the girls at the counter were saying it and NOT talking directly TO you then "meung" doesn't even apply. And I would be quite surprised if a thai lady would walk up to you to deliver a compliment using the word "meung".

[Richard W]

Your wrong I'm afraid. Any Thai maid working for foreigners will always refer to her employer as her "Madam", even when talking to other Thai's. Apart from that you often hear the word in the more up market hotels.

I used to hear maids use it quite a bit in soaps, referring to what appeared to be Thai ladies. I must say the word threw me when I first encountered it in writing.

Alien would be 'Manut Dtaang Dow' (Being different star)

Could you write that in Thai please - I'm confused.

(Sorry if I've mangled the nested quotes.) 'Manut Dtaang Dow' can be viewed by concatenating http://www.thai-language.com/id/136632 and http://www.thai-language.com/id/224291 . The meaning changes with the addition of a tone mark.

[Berkshire]

I'd say farangs in Thailand have about the same rights as foreigners, or non-citizens, in most countries, if not more.

Very funny indeed...

Ahhh, so you're one of those who believes that farangs in Thailand are second-class citizens. No rights. Discriminated against routinely. Looked down by everyone. Constantly pissed on by the locals. Treated worse than pond scum.

Well that's your opinion and you're certainly entitled to it. I don't agree. And no way I'd live in any country if I felt that way. So why in <deleted>'s name are you in Thailand??

yes.. if you feel that way go home ... what a stupid comment yet again by those that use that as the "go to" to end any argument.

Yes, a stupid comment truly deserves a stupid response. Which is why I'm responding to you.