Floods In Bangkok After Thursday's Rain Raise Questions On Drainage

[webfact]

Floods after Thursday's rain raise questions on drainage

The Nation

BANGKOK: -- Yesterday's flooding in many Bangkok areas pointed to flaws in the capital's drainage systems, according to experts, some of whom also questioned the government's decision to direct upriver run-offs into the sea through the heart of the capital.

Meanwhile, the National Water Resources and Flood Policy Committee (NWRFPC) said its plan to install water-pushing machines and other flood-prevention devices in canals in eastern Bangkok had saved residential areas near Lat Phrao Canal from flooding on Thursday night.

The NWRFPC said these machines had smoothly drained flood water from Lat Phrao Canal into the Rama IX flood-diversion tunnel, which would drain the water into the Chao Phraya River.

The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) said the flooding in the residential areas surrounding Lat Phrao Canal was caused by the NWRFPC's incomplete dredging.

The NWRFPC cancelled its plan to open the watergate at Klong Song Canal after heavy overnight rain and thus prevented the discharge of water into Lat Phrao Canal.

The drainage test scheduled for yesterday was supposed to examine the efficiency and capacity of Lat Phrao Canal to drain water into the Rama IX diversion tunnel.

After cancellation of the drainage test, the NWRFPC decided to run all the flood-prevention machines, including pumps and water-pushing machines, which previously had been installed for the drainage test. The use of the machines was aimed at helping the BMA drain water out of the capital and also study the capability of these devices.

Because of the heavy rain on Thursday night, the level of water in some canals in Bangkok rose sharply - to 145 millimetres in Saphan Sung district, and 109.5mm in Sai Mai district and Klong Saen Sab.

"The decision to cancel the drainage test was based on academic knowledge, not on pressure from the BMA," said NWRFPC member Royol Chitradon, who is director of the Hydro and Agro-Informatics Institute.

Joint decision

The NWFPC jointly made the decision with BMA Deputy Governor Wanlop Suwanphakdi to cancel the test, he added.

The water level in the canal before the rainfall was measured at 60 centimetres from mean sea level. After the heavy rain on Thursday night, the level in the canal was measured at 1 metre from mean sea level.

"We would not be able to control the situation if the level of water in the canal continued to rise," Royol said.

Meanwhile, Samai Jai-In, an NWRFPC member, said the committee had seen many weak points in the drainage system in many canals, particularly Lat Phrao Canal, which is on a low plain area and has been shallow. Moreover, a lot of garbage has been found in the canal, especially in the Rama IX flood-diversion tunnel, which makes drainage difficult.

"The flood-prevention equipment that we had installed in this canal could drain water within three hours," he said.

Bangkok Governor MR Sukhumbhand Paribatra posted comments in his Facebook account and told Bangkokians not to be worried about the flood situation. He added that the level of water in Klong Song was too high and that was the reason the BMA did not want the NWRFPC to open the watergate.

"I can handle any problem during the government's drainage test, discharging water into the heart of capital," he said.

He later held a news conference to explain the cancellation of the test, saying he wanted to thank the government for listening to the recommendation from his agency.

"The BMA's facilities were good enough to drain flood water into Rama IX flood diversion by midnight," he said.

Professor Thanawat Jaruphongsakul, a senior seismologist at Chulalongkorn University, said the government should divert flood water to areas outside the capital, as flood-prevention infrastructure in Bangkok was not ready to cope.

Meanwhile, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra said the government might consider running the drainage test again next week.

-- The Nation 2012-09-08

[BookMan]

"The decision to cancel the drainage test was based on academic knowledge, not on pressure from the BMA," said NWRFPC member Royol Chitradon, who is director of the Hydro and Agro-Informatics Institute....

...The water level in the canal before the rainfall was measured at 60 centimetres from mean sea level. After the heavy rain on Thursday night, the level in the canal was measured at 1 metre from mean sea level.

"We would not be able to control the situation if the level of water in the canal continued to rise," Royol said

sooooo, the canal system still cannot handle flooding?

[HOAX]

... and that's just some hours of heavy rain. What will happen when it's heavy rain for 3 days or even 7 days? It WILL happen. Maybe not this year or next year but of course it will happen.

Doing it the easy way is one option. Doing the real hard work is another thing. Seems like they've just kinda pointed the water to the poorest, outside the cities.

[ChrisY1]

Can't believe these clowns still think that so called "Water Pushing" works!!.

[Thai at Heart]

They finally admit unless the completely rebuild the system , it can barely handle heavy rain. So where did all the money go coz without some serious redesign it will never wotk.

[fareastguy]

It's what we all expected to hear, nothing new..

Bangkok will always have it's own water retention problems simply because when faced with high rainfall it has nowhere to go, compound this with run-off from elsewhere & floods will surely follow.

Why are canals still being reported as having garbage in them, surely this was the first thing to be cleared & the easiest thing to do, followed by dredging if found to have have become shallow.

But credit where it is due.. I am impressed by the ability of the authorities to measure increase in levels to the nearest 0.5mm

[asiawatcher]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters reside, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Edited September 8, 2012 by asiawatcher

[Thai at Heart]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Town planning and Bangkok? I have a headache every time i look at the expressway pillars standing in water with a tin hut on stilts sitiing there.

[EvilDrSomkid]

4 things that do not help this ridiculous situation:

1. Multitudes of agencies who cannot agree on jurisdiction. A bunch of king-of-the-hill children.

2. People who keep dumping their garbage into the khlongs. (Mai pen rai)

3. Rampant incompetence.

4. Rampant corruption. (The Dutch are not willing to acquiesce to Thai "way of business")

Solution: None.

[saengsureeya]

The problem is NOT heavy rain IN Bangkok, but heavy rain upstream........North and North East. This will cause the rivers to swell and the water-reservoir to fill up to unhealthy levels.

[Mosha]

You can't fix stupid. Expect another shindig after the rains.

[Soutpeel]

Forgive my ignornace as regards hydrology but <deleted> is a water pushing machine ?......is this a new PC term made up by the esteemed science and technology minister to describe a tug boat with its prop turning...

[Thait Spot]

Forgive my ignornace as regards hydrology but <deleted> is a water pushing machine ?......is this a new PC term made up by the esteemed science and technology minister to describe a tug boat with its prop turning...

It is a boatless motor.

Very smart man is Plodprasop. You don't need the boat, just the engine!

In fact I would go as far as saying that the natural flow of water, which has its fastest currents in the centre of the canal, would be slowed down by introducing turbulence

Edited September 8, 2012 by Thait Spot

[ARGUSEYE]

Nobody mentioned the tides in the Gulf of Thailand??? That's what they blamed last November floods on.... The yearly highest tides occuring during that time.

Now they should be normal or below average.... But no mention of it.

[cacruden]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Town planning and Bangkok? I have a headache every time i look at the expressway pillars standing in water with a tin hut on stilts sitiing there.

Almost no town was built due to town planning, it happened organically over time. Problem with Bangkok is that it is built at the bottom of a river, and like most cities that get built at that location -- it is sinking. Before the city gets built in that location silt comes down and builds up replacing old land that was there - which sinks..... Now all that is left is a sinking feeling. The truth is no politician likes to tell people that they cannot solve the problem by next year, or the year after. It would be a decade long construction program that is required to protect Bangkok - a very expensive prospect. All politicians are going to play diversion games, and hope like heck that luck is on there side (and take credit for it if nothing happens).

[technologybytes]

No, it was caused by lots of rain!

"The Bangkok Metropolitan Administration (BMA) said the flooding in the residential areas surrounding Lat Phrao Canal was caused by the NWRFPC's incomplete dredging."

[Thai at Heart]

There is actually another major problem in all this flooding. Bangkok being built on a flood plain, mud & sediment base, through lack of town planning, have been continually building enormous structures compressing the underlying 'soft' support, thus sinking the land.

Water as an element finds its own level (science 101) and Bangkok is at sea level already and water cannot drain easily. Dredging depth in a canal does not make water run when the sea level is higher than the depth of the canal. Widening the water course may, providing the water in the canals has the ability to flow towards the sea.

I would bring back the Dutch water management experts, (after all Amsterdam is below sea level and they have that contained), set up dykes and do a bit more town planning before allowing the next high rise to be built. Reclaim the land where tin shacks and squatters, clear buildings along waterways encroaching the water tables, and plant more trees and try to stabilise the land. Putting ridiculous pumps and gates against billions of litres of flood water is simply a waste of time and money.

Town planning and Bangkok? I have a headache every time i look at the expressway pillars standing in water with a tin hut on stilts sitiing there.

Almost no town was built due to town planning, it happened organically over time. Problem with Bangkok is that it is built at the bottom of a river, and like most cities that get built at that location -- it is sinking. Before the city gets built in that location silt comes down and builds up replacing old land that was there - which sinks..... Now all that is left is a sinking feeling. The truth is no politician likes to tell people that they cannot solve the problem by next year, or the year after. It would be a decade long construction program that is required to protect Bangkok - a very expensive prospect. All politicians are going to play diversion games, and hope like heck that luck is on there side (and take credit for it if nothing happens).

Ok, development with a little common sense would be a start.

[noob7]

"The decision to cancel the drainage test was based on academic knowledge, not on pressure from the BMA," said NWRFPC member Royol Chitradon, who is director of the Hydro and Agro-Informatics Institute....

...The water level in the canal before the rainfall was measured at 60 centimetres from mean sea level. After the heavy rain on Thursday night, the level in the canal was measured at 1 metre from mean sea level.

"We would not be able to control the situation if the level of water in the canal continued to rise," Royol said

sooooo, the canal system still cannot handle flooding?

What do you expect? PM said, no flooding this year.

So why do not put the money in usfull pock.., eh, projects, instead

[chainarong]

Time for a cuppa

[MrKrabbe]

Can't believe these clowns still think that so called "Water Pushing" works!!.

something like the venturi effect but the should look how this has to be implemented.

[h90]

Forgive my ignornace as regards hydrology but <deleted> is a water pushing machine ?......is this a new PC term made up by the esteemed science and technology minister to describe a tug boat with its prop turning...

It is a boatless motor.

Very smart man is Plodprasop. You don't need the boat, just the engine!

In fact I would go as far as saying that the natural flow of water, which has its fastest currents in the centre of the canal, would be slowed down by introducing turbulence

but on every purchase it pushes a 10 % fee on his bank account so it kind of works for pushing

[Curt1591]

Most of the entire country drains through Bangkok. Good luck!

[yourauntbob]

I live up in the Klong Sam Wa district and the water was noticeably higher yesterday. The canal is almost overflowing onto the streets already and this was just from a heavy rain. I am starting to get a bit worried....

[canuckamuck]

Ok, development with a little common sense would be a start.

Sorry, common sense is not yet available in Thailand.

[chrisinth]

To me it shows absolutly no confidence in the system if they have to cancel the testing due to heavy rainfall for one day. This is an instance they will have to come to terms with during the rainy seasons. Perhaps they would feel more comfortable postponing the testing until December/January?

It was an ideal scenario to do their tests, prove that the increased water level in the canals could be decreased to their desired levels.

As a side note, we have just had three days really heavy rain up-country (Phitsanulok and surrounding provences). This will be with you in the next couple of days and may be enough for the sluice gates to be opened to maintain their reserve levels. It will be interesting to see if we get additional flooding on the water's path caused by the water protection system for Bkk,ie, causing additional barriers for the natural water course.

I don't think we have seen any extreme rainfall this year outside the average figures, so there should be no real problems for areas that normally aren't affected. Fair to say?.................

[rubl]

Meanwhile, the National Water Resources and Flood Policy Committee (NWRFPC) said its plan to install water-pushing machines and other flood-prevention devices in canals in eastern Bangkok had saved residential areas near Lat Phrao Canal from flooding on Thursday night.

We, the NWRFPC, saved the day. There was no flooding (to speak of).

Now on a more serious tone. Without full details, but having heart that Bangkok is a wee bit low-level, sinking and all that, wouldn't you say that rather than pushing water through Bangkok you should pump it out? Open the gates and water flows INTO bangkok suggest somehow that you need pumps to get it out again on a another side.

[robblok]

I am happy that they fixed the river banks here up in nonthaburi, so that means its harder to get flooded here again. This way more water can go to Bangkok and that is of course a problem for BKK. All these upgrades upriver to make sure the river holds more water are a double edged sword.

[thatswhatuthought]

The problem is NOT heavy rain IN Bangkok, but heavy rain upstream........North and North East. This will cause the rivers to swell and the water-reservoir to fill up to unhealthy levels.

Heave rain in BKK is enough to cause big problems. Heavy rain upstream cause more problems. They can't even get water to drain off streets properly how are they gonna solve this problem??? Answer. They aren't.

[ThomasThailand]

Main Problems:

* Drain System might be fine, but look the street cleaners pulling the collected sand on the streets into the system = getting closed (same here in CM)

* Bangkok realy sinks down, there are Maps in the Internet about the areas (like Nonthaburi) and the speed, some 2 cm a year

* closing the natural areas (like open land before) with house (roof), Places beton, etc. and no any even short capayity to store the just falling rain for horus ... or more (I have a lake, and all 200 m² roof goes inside, plus some waterholes store frist some water until full and let them into land, not river)

* plus same problems from the north, bringing more and faster the water to bangkok

right, no solution,

Bangkok is lost - or they want to do like New Orleans ?

The rising of land prive here around CM shows many Bangkok people got it and move ...

[asiawatcher]

Thanks for the feedback guys (and the likes) but it still seems to me a lot of these reports are propagated by incompetent lying, incapable politicians with no answers or solutions,grandstanding themselves in the media.

I wish their Majesties would intervene, that wonderful input of structured common sense which no-one will dare go against. The grand Patriach did this for the Thai people way back and showed a water management systems to be followed and it was done at the time. I just wish he would grace the Thai's with his presence yet once again as he is certainly wise (humble) enough to seek outside counsel and draw the right conclusions then explain it to the Thai's where they will have to follow.

I also agree with the OP regarding the growth of Bangkok - it has been totally organic, lacks structure and is rife with corruption and payoffs to rubber stamp illegal projects. Corruption being the 'dis-ease' as well as disease of Thailand (Asia) is the heart of a lot of these problems. Wake up Thailand.