Cut Nyy Underground Copper Cable

[Beardog]

I was trying to be very carefull on the only area not in conduit per the contractors request to not runn the cable till the foundation is fully in. I accidently sliced one of the cables & was wondering what to do to seal it up wellas it is in the last 4 meters of the run to the consumer panel. Thank God I didn't cut both lines. I buried the wire to keep it out of sight from Commoies. This is house Build # 3 for us & I always do the underground Electrical Plumbing & sceptic. What is the best way to seal off the slice Guys?

Thanks for the help....I was so irritated at myself for doing such a good job on pulling the cables only to open the cable bare with my shovel. We have 3 days before the temporary power goes in. 15-45 amp meter #25 nyy copper cable used.

[Langsuan Man]

Here is what I had to do when some theives stole my underground cable. There was just barely enough cable left going into the house so that the electrician could use a block to connect the two loose ends since this type of heavy cable cannot be spliced. Don't know if this idea will help in your situation

Edited September 13, 2012 by Langsuan Man

[Litlos]

We used to use Scotchcast splicing kits and they are available in Thailand. http://thailand.rs-online.com/web/p/cable-joints/7134434/

This one size, various available and you cable is relatively small, so no big deal on this.

If it is underground needs to be waterproof and secure to stop insects or water getting in. The alternative is scotch 23 tape to seal the joints plus an extensive overall wrap some form of overall cover.

Cheers

[canopy]

Now you might appreciate why electrical cables are required to be buried at least a half meter underground and have red warning tape buried above them! Not doing so is a time bomb for somebody else after you to cut into them and the consequences for that poor unsuspecting person can be fatal. And buried that deep instead of scratching a little dirt over the top I doubt you would see them disappear. Certainly my 100M underground NYY run is cozy that deep and I feel good about it everyday. Whenever you do electrical work you really need to know the specifications for the job and follow them religiously. I don't have the specifications for an underground NYY splice, but I did run across a clip showing one. One problem is the heat shrink tubing sold in electrical shops in Thailand is paper thin because like everything else in Thailand the rule is cheaper = better. It seems unwise to trust using insulation so cheapened that it is about 50 times thinner than that used in developed countries.

[Beardog]

Now you might appreciate why electrical cables are required to be buried at least a half meter underground and have red warning tape buried above them! Not doing so is a time bomb for somebody else after you to cut into them and the consequences for that poor unsuspecting person can be fatal. And buried that deep instead of scratching a little dirt over the top I doubt you would see them disappear. Certainly my 100M underground NYY run is cozy that deep and I feel good about it everyday. Whenever you do electrical work you really need to know the specifications for the job and follow them religiously. I don't have the specifications for an underground NYY splice, but I did run across a clip showing one. One problem is the heat shrink tubing sold in electrical shops in Thailand is paper thin because like everything else in Thailand the rule is cheaper = better. It seems unwise to trust using insulation so cheapened that it is about 50 times thinner than that used in developed countries.

Now you might appreciate why electrical cables are required to be buried at least a half meter underground and have red warning tape buried above them! Not doing so is a time bomb for somebody else after you to cut into them and the consequences for that poor unsuspecting person can be fatal. And buried that deep instead of scratching a little dirt over the top I doubt you would see them disappear. Certainly my 100M underground NYY run is cozy that deep and I feel good about it everyday. Whenever you do electrical work you really need to know the specifications for the job and follow them religiously. I don't have the specifications for an underground NYY splice, but I did run across a clip showing one. One problem is the heat shrink tubing sold in electrical shops in Thailand is paper thin because like everything else in Thailand the rule is cheaper = better. It seems unwise to trust using insulation so cheapened that it is about 50 times thinner than that used in developed countries.

Thanks not to helpful Canopy I was looking more for an answer to how to not a lecture . The cable is buried a 1/2 a meter down & in the prescribed conduit . If you read the post fully the excess line was buried to keep the thieves from shopping till the foundation is poured.

Litlos Do you know if the Scotch 23 is available in Thailand? If it is the large electrical house I purchaced the cable may have some. I am sure I am not the first person to make this mistake.

I am thinking with the scotch tape & putting conduit over the bandaged area & filling it with fiberglass & resin this should make it Waterproof .

The scothcast is very similar to what we used when I ran cable for Bell telephone & Comcast cabling installations when the line was at the end & needed to be spliced.

Any coments on if the fiberglass along with the splicing if this should work or is there a better solution?

Thanks again for the Good info!

[Beardog]

Thanks for the lecture Canopy. The line is 1/2 a meter buried deep & is in conduit as well . It has the groovy red & yellow warning tape. If you read the post you would see the last bit of line was buried to hide from the copper thieves as the contractor asked me to not put the rest of the line in till he had the foundation in.

Litlos Thanks for the good info. Is the 23 scotch splicing tape available here in Thailand . I will go down to the electrical shop I got the cable at . It is a pretty big shop in Pattaya & if anyone will have it they will Or I will have to have it red labled from the U.S. The Scotchcast splicing kit looks really familliar to the kits we used at Pac bell Telephone & Comcast when I was working as a cable contractor. The biggest problem in Los is finding the materials to do the job Not on how to do for me. They robably haave this tape in stock in Naklua as I am not the first idiot to make the tragic error or not have enough line & needing to use splicing tape!

Thanks again for the good info. I am thinking on puytting the splicing tape over the cut area & putting conduit over the wounded area & sealing it in with Fiberglass matt & resin . Then putting the linees in a larger conduit & sealing the conduit again with fiberglass to be sure.The drag part is I probably have close to 5 kilos of the sealing Jel at a buddies place stored but it would be a nightmare for him to find in his pack ratted garage.

Sorry about the double post.....Internet problems

Barry

Edited September 14, 2012 by Beardog

[Litlos]

I am pretty sue that major electrical retailers would have or be able to get in the Scotch 23 tape, alternatively try RS-Components. RS do a delivery service but the site is in Thai only. I have only ever ordered it for work and it would take about a week to come offshore so is local supply somewhere.in Thailand.

The idea with the conduit will work as effectively that is all a Scotchcast is doing. Not sure on the fiberglass though, the Scotchcast uses a bituminous 2 part resin mix from memory so no fibers. But any good quality 2 pack resin mix that is waterproof should do the job. If you decide to use silicon be careful as normal silicon emits acetic acid during the curing process and this will attack the copper, neutral cure type silicon's are OK.

Cheers

[Pib]

Yea, I've seen Scotch 23 tape being sold at places like HomePro. And about two years ago I bought some at 9sats here in Bangkok which sells satellite TV equipment...Link. I bought some after I saw a TrueVisions tech using some to seal up a RG-6 cable connection outside....that connection is still waterproof. I've since used the Scotch 23 tape for some satellite dish connections and some indoor electrical wiring....works good. I don't think Scotch 23 tape will be too hard to find...maybe some local satellite equipment sellers may have some. But I do think I would still put some heat shrink tubing along with the Scotch 23 tape....such tubing does come in different varieties...some meant for indoor/in equipment use only and others for outdoor use.

[Beardog]

Thanks for the great info. On my way to Pattaya now. Will look for 23 tape at homepro the elecrical shop & elsewhere to find some tape And maybe just fiberglass resin over the tape & shrink wrap tubing. I know the Glass rein works. It works great when building speedboats for the ocean or lakes & is totally waterproof. Silicone sucks would not even consider using for electrical . Just found out with the changes we made my lines will be 2 meters short no mater what so I will put in a Junction Box & run the line back down underground. after it is done I may seal the box in resin to keep any unwanted moisture out from entering. Instead of piecing the NYY I will just replace with 20 fresh meters of cable to keep it simple. Thanks again for the info on the tape & shrink wrap!

[Crossy]

Good information above

Even Tesco have a rubber insulating tape similar to the Scotch 23 so you should be able to find something suitable.

Did you actually damage the copper or just nick the insulation?

[Beardog]

Good information above

Even Tesco have a rubber insulating tape similar to the Scotch 23 so you should be able to find something suitable.

Did you actually damage the copper or just nick the insulation?

I didn't damage the copper a bit but put an inch or so slice on the insulation around the copper. I found the Scotch 23 splicing tape in another name supposedly from England EPR Self Amalgamating Tape. it didn't say for splicing or high voltage But with the help of my thai Gal (once she understood what I wanted & heat shrink wrap tubing. We got the point across. The boss spoke enough English. The other staff handed me the usual black electrical tape & I told them that would not work need for underground NYY.

I will only need to re-insulate one of the lines & put in a junction box instead of running both lines with tape & shrinkwrap tubing becaus the lines are shorter than needed when we changed the design a bit. That & I do not want the line to be underneath the carport area where it won't be acsessable. This way I can just get fresh lines into the consumer panel & seal up the junction box.

Crossy what would you suggest the best way to seal the re-insulated areas & junction box(if anything in the junction box)? Thanks. With the junction box I can power up the temporary circuit for the mixer & saws as well without needing to run the full line & be in the contractors way. This is the hardest part. I can run all the plumbing & septic in 4-5 hours. Hopefully their welder is up to snuff or I will be welding the roof on if the boys been out drinking & card playing all night.Nothing worse than poor penetration or holes in the metal or spot welds when it should be full seams.

[Crossy]

Poor penetration is often an issue after beer.

If you're having a JB above ground get an IP65 box and some glands of the right size for the cable, you won't need further waterproofing.

[Beardog]

Poor penetration is often an issue after beer.

If you're having a JB above ground get an IP65 box and some glands of the right size for the cable, you won't need further waterproofing.

Poor penetration is often an issue after beer.

If you're having a JB above ground get an IP65 box and some glands of the right size for the cable, you won't need further waterproofing.

Thanks for the good advice. I will get & install in a couple days!

[Beardog]

Litlos , Pib , & Crossy thanks for the good info. It worked out well I sealed with resin put in more insulation pipes & resealed them again in bigger conduit & resealed again & ran the bigger mass in 1&1/4” pvc pipe for good measure. I decided to put the Junction box under the house a meter & ½ hight so not water or moisture can get into the setup!

Thanks again.

Barry

[Hssl]

http://www.telepart.net/3M-3%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%A1-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%A1%E0%B9%80%E0%B8%AD%E0%B9%87%E0%B8%A1/3M-Splicing-Kit.html

http://www.thai-interelectric.com/images/1130920959/products3m.pdf

[Litlos]

A few tricks. Do not put glands in the top of the box if possible, this is how water makes it way inside, if you absolutely have to put a gland in the top then look at sealing with silicon. If glands go into the sides of the box make sure the gland is not the lowest point in the cable so that water does not run to the gland. The NYY type cable is only PVC/PVC so if you do runs up walls or posts then I would run in conduit or duct to give it some more mechanical protection.

Cheers

[Beardog]

A few tricks. Do not put glands in the top of the box if possible, this is how water makes it way inside, if you absolutely have to put a gland in the top then look at sealing with silicon. If glands go into the sides of the box make sure the gland is not the lowest point in the cable so that water does not run to the gland. The NYY type cable is only PVC/PVC so if you do runs up walls or posts then I would run in conduit or duct to give it some more mechanical protection.

Cheers

Got the glands on the side I could see if I used the top glands it may leak Will either seal with epoxy or silicone. Silicone will probably work since it is not in the ground.

Good links HSSL I will keep on file good to know there are more sources for splice kits.

Today I will pull the hidden conduit with the cable already in it & attach to the power pole for the elec. company to plug in after the meter is installed. I think I will probably bring back enough gel for 2 or 3 jobs for the future. The tubes are for telephone cable or fiber optics for complexes & are huge so they won't work unless you had 10cmx40cm to fill. But the gel is the same.

Thanks again guys!

[Daffy D]

Poor penetration is often an issue after beer.

If you're having a JB above ground get an IP65 box and some glands of the right size for the cable, you won't need further waterproofing.

[Beardog]

after a near perfect instalation the commoies last nigt stole the copper drop the elec. co. just put in & 4 meters of copper wire that was in conduit out of the ground. tomorrow I get to join Aluuminum to copper as it is the only way to keep the thieving bastards out of the copperfield waterproof all over again & bury it in a cement pylon so they can't get any bright ideas if they come back. Crossy this is one time I am hesitant to terminate the end in copper. And I bought a shotgun to remedy the thieving action but the last 2 times I wasn't around to catch them. GRRRRRR!

[canopy]

I don't understand why no one uses surveillance cameras in Thailand. When someone steps on your property day or night you get an SMS with a picture of it on your phone within seconds. They trigger by infrared and not motion so you don't get false alarms from trees swaying or anything like that. And these are small, standalone battery operated units that can be placed anywhere. I guess it makes it just too easy and cheap to catch thieves and people aren't comfortable with that for some reason.

[Beardog]

I don't understand why no one uses surveillance cameras in Thailand. When someone steps on your property day or night you get an SMS with a picture of it on your phone within seconds. They trigger by infrared and not motion so you don't get false alarms from trees swaying or anything like that. And these are small, standalone battery operated units that can be placed anywhere. I guess it makes it just too easy and cheap to catch thieves and people aren't comfortable with that for some reason.

I take it you never had theft occur in Thailand. First of all even if you do catch them on tape the cops won't do anything. If they do you have to go to court as many times as they feel necessary & when it is over all you get back is 200 baht for travel reimbersment from the court. It is a joke. There is zero restitution in Thailand so when you lose you just lose. It is really not worth the hassle of trying to put someone in jail. I been there 4 people went to the pokey & I got a dead cellphone & a busted camera back. Not really any satisfaction. Our neighbor a kilo away got a nice picture of a piece of carpet thrown over the surveilance camera that they stole along with his recorder & his electronic gear. Bottom line if a thief wants in they are going to get in Takes 3 swings of a 10lb. maul to break 2 layers of c-con brick & they are in or the roof tile.

Survelance is a waste of money with the law as weak as it is-If your really bad they make you talk to a Monk the horror the dread.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Beardog

[Beardog]

redid the lines & epoxied them & then cemented the line in conduit. It is now 1&1/2 meters of 25mm aluminum & the drop from the elec. co. is aluminum also. They redid the neighbors & last night the kommoies got several more people.

Everyone is watching the areas more closely now.It was only a 600 bahy hit so I am not to frazzled by it. When we got our copper takenin our other house 5 years ago I put a exposed piece of aluminum to the wire so they could see we gave at the office already. they still cut the insulation to make sure but the shennanigans stopped after they new that we were on to them.

Edited September 19, 2012 by Beardog

[candid]

after a near perfect instalation the commoies last nigt stole the copper drop the elec. co. just put in & 4 meters of copper wire that was in conduit out of the ground. tomorrow I get to join Aluuminum to copper as it is the only way to keep the thieving bastards out of the copperfield waterproof all over again & bury it in a cement pylon so they can't get any bright ideas if they come back. Crossy this is one time I am hesitant to terminate the end in copper. And I bought a shotgun to remedy the thieving action but the last 2 times I wasn't around to catch them. GRRRRRR!

Beardog, can you please tell me where you live near? You sure got bad luck with thieves and I just wanna be sure I am somewhere else from you

[Beardog]

after a near perfect instalation the commoies last nigt stole the copper drop the elec. co. just put in & 4 meters of copper wire that was in conduit out of the ground. tomorrow I get to join Aluuminum to copper as it is the only way to keep the thieving bastards out of the copperfield waterproof all over again & bury it in a cement pylon so they can't get any bright ideas if they come back. Crossy this is one time I am hesitant to terminate the end in copper. And I bought a shotgun to remedy the thieving action but the last 2 times I wasn't around to catch them. GRRRRRR!

Beardog, can you please tell me where you live near? You sure got bad luck with thieves and I just wanna be sure I am somewhere else from you

Does not matter where you live thieves are everywhere. In Bang Saray the crime is much lower than the Pattaya area. The U.S. it is just as bad. easy copper snabs = good Yaba payouts at the local copper buying shop. No different here then Bangkok Pattaya Bang saray Krabi or upcountry. When times are tough or if people are lazy & need that fix they hit you. Unfortunately! If I new a non existant crime area I would certainly be there! Pattaya was far worse for thieving when I lived there. If we were on the property it may have been different but we are 3 kilo's away That & I went overboard & had the nice Beefy 25 mm copper line sticking out like a sore thumb. the thieves actually did not hit the copper for 3 years according to the neighbors. Kind of my fault for using huge cable for a 15-45 amp hookup. Oh Well At least they didn't go looking for the other 50 meters I have buried ready to put in in 2 weeks.Once you put in Aluminum the thieving stops.

[citi]

This also happened to me. Last month, my house was ransacked by thieves. Since the house is empty (I live in H.K.), the thief broken into the house by the cutting lock of the iron door. The thief cut and took fuse box, electrical cable, compressors of the air conditioners and removed all water taps. The thief also climbed up to the false ceiling to search any valuable things up there. As a result, the false ceiling boards fall apart. The thief took very little valuable stuff away but caused a lot of damage of the house. I just wonder how the thief cut the incoming cables without getting electrocuted by touching live wire.

[canopy]

The OP said "I bought a shotgun to remedy the thieving action but the last 2 times I wasn't around to catch them" then it is mentioned it is actually trivial to catch them, but the response is basically it isn't worth it! Now in the latest 3rd case of looting it sounds like the thief spent a substantial amount of time there, having the audacity to even take off all the fixtures. If a camera was present that sent photos to someone nearby then this thief could have been stopped. I guess I'll just never understand people's indifference to allowing thieves to rob them, profiting at your expense, laughing at your incompetence, and coming back again and again. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

Back on topic, glad to know the 3M splice kits are available here. May use that to run mains under a road rather than overhead. Will make it neat and tidy, no posts and I like that clean connection.

[Beardog]

The OP said "I bought a shotgun to remedy the thieving action but the last 2 times I wasn't around to catch them" then it is mentioned it is actually trivial to catch them, but the response is basically it isn't worth it! Now in the latest 3rd case of looting it sounds like the thief spent a substantial amount of time there, having the audacity to even take off all the fixtures. If a camera was present that sent photos to someone nearby then this thief could have been stopped. I guess I'll just never understand people's indifference to allowing thieves to rob them, profiting at your expense, laughing at your incompetence, and coming back again and again. Oh well, to each his own I guess.

Back on topic, glad to know the 3M splice kits are available here. May use that to run mains under a road rather than overhead. Will make it neat and tidy, no posts and I like that clean connection.

Last thieving was a different location than the previous He went shopping up & down the road & were reports of more cabble pilfering in Ban Ampur 7 kilo's away.

I didn't even care about the cables He got about $6.00 of my copper & the countys drop. with the little piece of bared aluminum cable wire tied to the cable a thief can see it is infact aluminun They might nick the line at some point to check to make sure but they will see it is true & split. I don't think it much matters to have a picture anyway if your not in an actual armed robery the heat just don't care much if your Thai or farang there is no money in it for them & no chance of advancement for cathing an armed robbery suspect. Sucks but Thailands law is very weak.

Edited September 23, 2012 by Beardog

[canopy]

Sour grapes I am afraid. Imagine if you arrived at the police station with a dossier of crystal clear 10 megapixel images showing the thief, whom you will probably find you know well, on your property taking your things with date and time stamps and can also put his vehicle at the scene of the crime with visible license plate. Since you will know about the crime instantly, the police have the opportunity to find the stolen goods at the thief's house and you will easily put the thief behind bars with even a fraction of this going to plan. Please don't even try to compare such a rock solid case you would get with this technology to people with sketchy evidence the police can't realistically pursue.

I use my camera differently. Instead of using it to solve crime which it is very capable of doing, I put the emphasis on preventing crime. When someone enters my vacant property a vehicle pulls up to them before they have had a chance to stretch their legs and a guy starts asking them uncomfortable questions like why they have passed a locked gate with a no trespassing sign. I then tell them the area is under satellite surveillance and not to come back and warn them if anything is missing in the future I will know who to tell the police to go after. I've had to do this several times. When I am away I simply send the SMS messages to someone nearby to cover for me.

I am still baffled that in the 21st century no one else seems to be doing this but instead choose to spend their time and money on outdated, less effective security.

[citi]

Another bad news for me. My neighbour in front of my house informed us of a thief visiting our house again. We went back to check and found that the thief cut the incoming live electrical cable near the rooftop probably during heavy rainfall. It could be very dangerous for cutting live wire. The thief tried to break in the house through the window. Lucklily we locked it otherwise he stayed inside the house and caused more damage. Anyway, we reported the case to police again. It is very likely that this is the same thief who visited our house before. The house is vacant. Don't know how to safeguard the house unless there is someone in the house all the time.

[canopy]

Don't know how to safeguard the house unless there is someone in the house all the time.

Apparently I am the only one that does. Good luck with your locks though.