Poorly Skilled Drivers And The Law: Thailand

[ThaidDown]

Cannot see what all the fuss is about, after 20 odd years driving here and observing the local driving habits, it just comes down to...

1,Change lane,

2,Turn on indicator,

3, Look in mirror.

Note 2 and 3 are optional.

[NangrongJ]

Mortenna - cities are the same throughout the world! I see, or a frequent and regular basis; drivers cutting up, driving on the wrong side of the road, dangerous overtaking, overloaded vehicles, dangerous emerging as well as the totally illogical such as straining to overtake and then when it's done stopping to turn right!

In some countries it's malicious as they know what they are doing but in Thailand they are totally clueless as they don't perceive what the risk is! Indeed, there isn't a safety culture in Thailand!

[NangrongJ]

ThaidDown - and in that order! Some actually believe because they have signalled they can go when a signal is an act of intent not a request or right!

[jimbeam1]

"After each big accident, I am always interviewed by various media for comments, whether in terms of analysing the incident as well as finding preventive measures."

I can't imagine why because you are obviously clueless. Maybe they just want to see which necktie you have chosen for the interview...

Absolutely spot on

jb1

[Dap]

Driving standards are not that bad in Thailand are they...

thx

Ray Charles

You have got to be JOKING!!!!

Very observant Ray

Edited September 14, 2012 by Dap

[Crazy chef 1]

Just as an example...yesterday my wife and me brought her mother to the bus station and had to wait a while.within 15 min I've seen more traffic violations than in Europe in a months.a14 or15 year old boy rode a bike( on the pavement and wrong direction) behind his gf(probably same age) in front a toddler,nobody wore a helmet and the guy was on the phone.... I just shaked my head smiled confused and grumbled TiT...then my mom in law asked my wife why I am doing so and she explained- but mum still didn't understood what' been wrong...IMHO the only chance is to start with education enforce the laws and come up with draconic punishment for not obeying the laws.catch them where it's hurt - before somebody gets hurt...

[NangrongJ]

In any case ''poorly skilled'' is poor grammar! It's either poorly trained or lacking in skill! If they are ''skilled'' then by definition they are competent!

Lets not digress, that just irritated me! I can only assume the editor of this newspaper is having a day off to allow such an article to slip through!

[Tomtomtom69]

What a load of bull.

The problem is a total disregard of traffic laws, both by drivers and law enforcement.

Agreed. Not only is there is an attitude of "I can do what I want" by drivers, but law enforcement is almost non-existant in Thailand. A useful comparison can be made with a significantly poorer country, Vietnam. Although Vietnam has even worse drivers and far worse road conditions than Thailand, but their police force is much more efficient in catching speeders. Over the years of going there regularly, my local friend keeps reminding me that posted speed limits much be adhered to, particularly in the cities. If it says 50, it's 50 and if you're doing 55 and there's a police checkpoint, they will pull you over and in most cases fine you. They won't just fine you a paltry 50,000 Dong (which is the equivalent of a Thai slap-on-the-wrist 100 Baht fine) but they'll rarely budge for less than 200,000 Dong and I'm talking about locals being forced to pay this amount for driving in the wrong lane or speeding on a motorcycle. Car drivers often get hit up to 400,000 or 800,000 Dong, which is far, far more than is typical in Thailand yet Thai drivers are much richer than Vietnamese drivers, but they get off scot free in most cases.

In Thailand, there are almost no speed cameras (either fixed or portable) yet given the level of development you'd think they would be able to afford them. When I was driving in rural China between Kunming and Mengla (near the Lao border), mostly on the expressway, I received 4 speeding fines over the course of 3 days for a total of 1,100 Yuan (about 5,200 Baht). There are fixed speed cameras everywhere on Chinese highways and if you get caught a fine is sent to the registered owner's address. I'm wondering why Thailand has decided not to put fixed speed cameras on every road, which would not only cut down on speeding, but also generate substantial revenue by the authorities. It would be like a win-win situation.

Until Thailand realizes it's no longer 1980 and starts catching up to the rest of the world in terms of not only better driving attitudes, improving road safety awareness and driver training but also increasing law enforcement (that doesn't mean there has to be police everywhere, cameras can do the job just fine in most cases) things aren't going to improve.

[yourauntbob]

This article is nonsense, is his argument that cars manufacturers are doing too good of a job? So if the cars were made less safe then there would be less accidents? Why is TV even posting something this foolish?

More thorough exams

Enforce the laws

Improve the road system (the u-turns cause more problems than they solve)

[NangrongJ]

Tomtomtom69 - it's a misconception to compare with the wealth of a country although poorer countries can't justify the road safety costs. India boasts a vibrant economy but has officially the worst road safety record in the world (and deserves it). The USA has the worst road safety record of the developed world, it's currently 26th out of 33 in the world, just ahead of Cambodia! Qatar, is per capita the wealthiest country in the world but road safety is shocking and the arrogant attitude to match it!

[Tomtomtom69]

'For example 30-40 years ago, many drivers would find it very difficult to stop and start the vehicle on an incline such as a steep bridge. That's because most vehicles in those days came with manual transmission, which required good driver skill when faced with this situation. If the clutch was released too quickly or with the wrong timing, the engine would likely stall or the vehicle would jump forward and hit the car in front, or roll back and hit the car behind.'

In many countries around the world, one would not be able to obtain a driving licence if not capable of pulling off such a basic maneuver correctly.

Yep. Australia is one of them. I seem to recall also having to perform this maneuver when getting my license in Texas, but unlike in Australia, even if you drive an automatic vehicle when doing the test, there is no restriction that will only allow you to drive automatics unaccompanied for the first year. At least not, if you are at least 18 and thus are able to get a full driver license without having to go through the various probationary license hoops you now have to go through in the different Australian states and territories. Getting a license in the States is still significantly cheaper and easier than in Australia, but not as easy as in Thailand where you just drive around a circuit.

[Tomtomtom69]

Tomtomtom69 - it's a misconception to compare with the wealth of a country although poorer countries can't justify the road safety costs. India boasts a vibrant economy but has officially the worst road safety record in the world (and deserves it). The USA has the worst road safety record of the developed world, it's currently 26th out of 33 in the world, just ahead of Cambodia! Qatar, is per capita the wealthiest country in the world but road safety is shocking and the arrogant attitude to match it!

I suppose you have a point, but that still doesn't explain why Thailand can't at least improve its law enforcement? As mentioned, Vietnam is not the best country to learn from, but it still surprises me to see such a large, intimidating police presence on the roads there when you see almost none here in Thailand.

[NangrongJ]

tomtomtom you are correct - we can train a driver and people will always take chances but enforcement is weak and in many cases non-existent! As I've stated earlier the successful countries in road safety (known as the SUN countries -Sweden, UK & Netherlands) all use the 3 'E'S- Education, Engineering and Enforcement!

[gp2002]

People DO NOT know how to drive in this country..........PERIOD!!!!!

You take your road test in a parking lot and all they ask you to do is park.

Cars and motorbikes pull out of side sois without looking to their right to see if another vehicle is coming and then they expect you to slam on your brakes as they pull in front of you.

No one can seem to afford a new bulb to replace the burnt out tail lights on their vehicle which makes driving at night an even bigger adventure.

The people driving the BMWs and Mercedes think they have the right of way and can do whatever they want.

As long as you can pay 500 baht for a license, nothing will change.

[gp2002]

Driving on the shoulder or in the curb lane in the opposite direction is also one of my favorites here. The list goes on and on

[impulse]

Tomtomtom69 - it's a misconception to compare with the wealth of a country although poorer countries can't justify the road safety costs. India boasts a vibrant economy but has officially the worst road safety record in the world (and deserves it). The USA has the worst road safety record of the developed world, it's currently 26th out of 33 in the world, just ahead of Cambodia! Qatar, is per capita the wealthiest country in the world but road safety is shocking and the arrogant attitude to match it!

Not according to Wikipedia. They probably have more fatalities than most, but They also drive a lot more miles than the rest of the developed world.

The meaningful number is fatalities per mile driven (or per 100 million miles or per billion km)

Lets' see who's ahead of the USA at 8.5: fatalities per billion vehicle miles:

Austria at 8.9

Belgium at 10.8

Greece at 17.4

S Korea at 19.3

Spain at 11.7

New Zealand at 9.1

http://en.wikipedia....ated_death_rate

Not to say Wikipedia is beyond questioning, just that the USA ain’t at the top of the list. Still, I suspect you have other numbers and I'm interested...

Edited September 14, 2012 by impulse

[NangrongJ]

No one seriously quotes wikipedia for anything! The measurement and evaluation for road safety stats is quite complex and takes about 3 years to compile. What you have quoted is just a fraction of the information.

I don't want to digress away too much from the original subject but I can tell you that the USA is way down there for many good reasons; population, cars and KMs/Miles do not come into it!

[Thaddeus]

tomtomtom you are correct - we can train a driver and people will always take chances but enforcement is weak and in many cases non-existent! As I've stated earlier the successful countries in road safety (known as the SUN countries -Sweden, UK & Netherlands) all use the 3 'E'S- Education, Engineering and Enforcement!

Totally agree.

NangrongJ..... do you live in Nang Rong on route 24?

The stretch of road there to Prakon Chai has displayed some of the most ill-thought-out driving I have ever witnessed, it's only beaten by the section between Prakon Chai and Prasat.

Oh.... and the 359.

[masterbiker49]

many people don't know traffic rules. corruption is the major cause. issuing driving license is too easy.

Neither do our BIB!!!!!!!

[NangrongJ]

Hi Thaddeus - yes I do, about 1 km from that road. The 'U' turns on the carriageway are so dangerous, a free for all! That was an American idea as roundabouts would be too complicated. Many scary moments there.

[NangrongJ]

When I first came here, I used to get the bus to Bangkok, that was scary! The bus drivers are appalling but worst of all are the VIP mini-bus drivers, maniacs.

[Crazy chef 1]

Business as usual- let's blame somebody else!!!

[Anon999]

What a load of bull.

The problem is a total disregard of traffic laws, both by drivers and law enforcement.

Most don't know traffic laws anyway. How can they learn traffic laws if not provided with a Highway Code, proper driving instruction and a real driving test before being issued a licence to kill, for life?

Try engaging brain before saying, "What a load of bull."

[ThaiTrav]

Business as usual- let's blame somebody else!!!

Nothing will be done ......and nothing will change. who cares about the carnage ? theres heaps of people here face it you go out on the roads at your own risk we all know the authorities are incapable .. how many were wiped out at Sonkran ???? Hundreds and this is an acceptable yearly cull...........Sad but the fact is your life is in your own hands out on the road especially ,too bad if your snuffed by dropping your guard or another senseless lunitic wipes you out ,doesn.t matter . I counted 37 cars and motorbikes just travelling down Pattayas 3rd rd yesterday with law enforsable defects from brake lights, no indication, no number plates no helmets ...and I am not a policeman. The powers to be....They are more interested in enforcing a no turn left at red lights with a sign posted least 10-15 metres before the intersection saying "turn left waiting red light ??????? " Means just the opposite to what they are fining people for and the joke municipality has spent hundreds and thousands of baht putting lots of these joke signs on all the major intersections. How about the pedestrian crossings ....even when they work the button to activate is half way or more up the pole out of reach of children , so the inocent risk getting killed just to cross ,guess it doesn't matter now as all are just turned off or flash yellow ....too hard to understand how they work.. Must admit my first reaction of bewilderment when coming to a set of traffic lights flashing red ?????? Stop go stop go ?? What the #### . Whist stopped ushered by a horn from a countryman . The end of the day ......who cares? Good to see though the speed limit has dropped from 140klm/hr to 120 on a recent minivan visa run ,still had me grasping on the edge of my seat whilst tailgating the trucks in front leaving no room for error and visability from oncoming traffic zero.

[tomacht8]

Save driving has something to do with predictive anticipation.

Like advance thinking. Finding for every traffic situation the best (safest) solution.

Unfortunately this is not Thai mentality. Very often I experience that many drivers think only of themselves,

and everything else they just do not care.

But there is also one good thing in Thailand traffic rules:

The red number plates for new vehicles.

So you have been warned!

[cekipa]

....ahhh ahhhahhh ahh aaaa AAA.....AAAAAAA HHHHH !!!!!

sorry guys but from your posts it seems that many of you just pucked in reading this highly-widely-sough-opinionist interview . Myself, I've started the day at my favourite coffe shop..... .......browsing onling here and there ..............when suddenly........... I had the misfortune to come across this masterpiece topic and .... . Still have to recover ....... ah, ah

[BrianCR]

As one who has been actively involved in road safety for over 23 years and has experience of 38 countries I can tell you it is easy to point the finger at the driver. However, someone trained that driver and even more relevant, someone tested that driver and deemed the driver to be safe and competent!

Lets put aside the usual corruption chat for a moment. It is far to easy to become a driving instructor and even easier to remain one. There are no standards bodies to monitor the quality or effectiveness of training. The testing, like nay exam, should be subjective based upon a syllabus. There is no syllabus and the testing is objective (I'm a uk advanced examiner & accident investigator).

I'm presently teaching my wife to drive and some neighbours are asking why it's taking so long, well it's about safety and standards and she now knows the difference! However, she will be tested by a clueless clown even though her standard and knowledge of driving is far superior to them!

Always remember - the biggest NUT in a car is the one behind the wheel

[SIamYank]

This statement is total bull. Driving is very easy. 98% of people can do it safely and politely if they choose to. Aint no training necessary. Experience can teach you what you need to know. Lets be honest. It is not much more difficult than walking. To suggest that more cars or marketing to incapable people is the problem is total bullocks.

That being said... I dont have a problem with 90% of the Thai drivers on the road. There is definately a different driving style to "The West", and the regulations here are extremely lax (no lights being my biggest complaint). And the variety of vehicles on the road creates more hazardous conditions... but to say it is caused by too many people (or not the rgiht people) having cars is asinine.

But the

[laislica]

Driving isn't about the physical aspect of handling a car, that's the easy part; driving is about hazard perception, interpreting risk and making decisions based upon that! I know from watching drivers here that there is a pattern of emerging from junctions without effective observation, they just go! This is partly down to a lack of control ( as stated) but most importantly, a lack of constructive training! Far too often driver will change lanes, turn or just go without checking mirrors!

Driver training has never and will never, on its own, cure road safety. The 'formula' for successful road safety is a combination of the 3 'E's; Education, Engineering and Enforcement. All three are weak if not non-existent in Thailand. This is one of the reasons why Thailand is not listed in the world road safety statistics as it's non-compliant! Although Cambodia is listed and has made great strides!

What ever happened to MSM Mirror, Signal, Maneuver?

I'm new in Thailand and I am shaken to my roots when I see motorcycles riding at speed the wrong way on motorways. Oh and cars, lorries etc.

The lack of enforcement encourages such misbehaviour.

Travelling in Thailand is an almost hallucinatory potion of sound, spectacle & experience. It is frequently heart-rending, sometimes hilarious, mostly exhilarating, always unforgettable -- and, when you are on the roads, extremely dangerous.

Most Thai road users observe a version of the Highway Code based on a Sanskrit text.

These 12 rules of the Thai road are published for the first time in English.

RULE 1

The assumption of immortality is required of all road users.

RULE 2

Thai traffic, like Thai society, is structured on a strict caste system.

The following precedence must be accorded at all times in descending order, give way to: cows, elephants, heavy trucks, buses, official cars, camels, light trucks, buffalo, jeeps, ox-carts, private cars, motorcycles, scooters, auto rickshaws, pigs, pedal rickshaws, goats, bicycles (goods-carrying), handcarts, bicycles (passenger-carrying), dogs, pedestrians.

RULE 3

All wheeled vehicles shall be driven in accordance with the maxim: to slow is to falter, to brake is to fail, to stop is to be defeated. This is the Thai drivers mantra.

RULE 4

Use of horn (also known as the sonic fender):

Cars - Short blasts (urgent) indicate supremacy, i.e. in clearing dogs and pedestrians from path.

- Long blasts (desperate) denote supplication, i.e. to on-coming truck, "I am going too fast to stop, so unless you slow down we shall both die". In extreme cases this may be accompanied by flashing headlights (frantic).

- Single blast (casual) means "I have seen someone out of Thailand's 60 million whom I recognise" "There is a bird in the road (which at this speed could go through my windscreen) or "I have not blown my horn for several minutes".

Trucks & buses - All horn signals have the same meaning, viz. "I have an all-up weight of approximately 12.5 tons and have no intention of stopping, even if I could". This signal may be emphasised by the use of headlamps.

RULE 5

All manoeuvres, use of horn and evasive action shall be left until the last possible moment.

RULE 6

In the absence of seat belts, car occupants shall wear garlands of marigolds. These should be kept fastened at all times.

RULE 7

Rights of way: Traffic entering a road from the left has priority, so has traffic from the right, and also traffic in the middle. Lane discipline: All Thai traffic at all times and irrespective of direction of travel shall occupy the centre of the road.

RULE 8

Roundabouts : Thailand has no roundabouts. Apparent traffic islands in the middle of the cross-roads have no traffic management function. Any other impression should be ignored. That’s what U-Turns are for.

RULE 9

Overtaking is mandatory. Every moving vehicle is required to overtake every other moving vehicle, irrespective of whether it has just overtaken you. Overtaking should only be undertaken in suitable conditions, such as in the face of oncoming traffic, on blind bends, at junctions and in the middle of village/town/city centres. No more than 2 inches should be allowed between your vehicle and the one you are passing - and one inch in the case of bicycles or pedestrians.

RULE 10

Nirvana may be obtained through the head-on crash.

RULE 11

Reversing: No longer applicable since no vehicle in Thailand has reverse gear.

RULE 12

The 10th incarnation of God was an articulated tanker.

Edited September 14, 2012 by laislica

[theblether]

Driving isn't about the physical aspect of handling a car, that's the easy part; driving is about hazard perception, interpreting risk and making decisions based upon that! I know from watching drivers here that there is a pattern of emerging from junctions without effective observation, they just go! This is partly down to a lack of control ( as stated) but most importantly, a lack of constructive training! Far too often driver will change lanes, turn or just go without checking mirrors!

Driver training has never and will never, on its own, cure road safety. The 'formula' for successful road safety is a combination of the 3 'E's; Education, Engineering and Enforcement. All three are weak if not non-existent in Thailand. This is one of the reasons why Thailand is not listed in the world road safety statistics as it's non-compliant! Although Cambodia is listed and has made great strides!

What ever happened to MSM Mirror, Signal, Maneuver?

I'm new in Thailand and I am shaken to my roots when I see motorcycles riding at speed the wrong way on motorways. Oh and cars, lorries etc.

The lack of enforcement encourages such misbehaviour.

"Rules of the road?" - The biggest wins! The stupid die!

No......the innocent die.