Crackdown On Beer Gardens

[DJ Moore]

This is absolute NONSENSE

How on earth are they going to implement this without thousands more Thai's loosing their jobs.

As previously stated if this kind of miissmanagement of the country's tourist trade continues there won't be one

Many of those lovely Beer Girls will end up as Bar Girls once they loose their jobs

When will they get a grip and do something USEFUL

Why is it guys like you are only concerned about losing your girls. I wager not one of you would be in Thailand if not for the cheap sex and news laws like this only threatens your farang lifestyles.

=======================================================

You are missing the bigger picture......................... DJM

[capt_canada42]

Well how many people are killed each year in Thailand because of drunken driving ? To many I must admit I have done my share of drunken driving and I am not proud of it. I try to not do this these days but years ago I sure did alot of being stupid and being dangerous.

But major problem is police not enforcing laws.

Last night I went to Kata to see a friend and was struck by two Thai's on a motor bike trying to make money when I said in Thai I was going to get the police they both ran.

Today I saw them pulling the same stunt hitting cars in Kata and falling to the ground pretending they were hurt to get money out of tourists who when they hit some one shitttte there pants and pay through the nose.

To night I feel like going hunting for these guys with a 2x4 or piece of bamboo

[tracer0]

While I think its a stupid idea which will likely not make it without a lot of noise, I am in favour... The more things get passed the sooner even the Thais will object. Whatever, Donot call your business a beergarden.... seems to be the obvious way out. AT least I asume a beergarden and bare arent the same acc to these regulations.

[bufo]

Beer gardens could soon be a thing of the past

BANGKOK: -- Beer gardens may become a thing of the past if a proposal yesterday by the national subcommittee on alcohol consumption control is approved.

Yeah, let's all have regimented control by der leader. It's becoming dismal...... Let's tax the heck out of the regular folks. the well-off won't notice it. Let's force people to do what der leader wants. I can't really comprehend how FUBAR the Land of Smiles is becoming...

Edited January 29, 2006 by bufo

[englishoak]

It won't happen This is another stunt or mabe dream that will die a quiet death when it turns out to be as unpopular with everyone as you would expect. Someone has missed the economic fallout of prohibition.

Either that or Thailand is going to turn into a muslim nation mabe Mr T will change his name to Mohammed.

[tvleftbank]

Can you imagine it: bars covering their booze displays with a blanket and a small A4 sign sayin "Beer sold here", the Johnnie Walker Classic golf tournament becoming the Hale's Blue Boy Open, people wearing Everton or Liverpool football shirts arrested on the spot and all alcohol brand websites will be added to the 800,000 already allegedly blacklisted in this country.

Whilst I can understand the desire to reduce alcohol consumption, is a blanket advertising ban going to help? The majority of Thai drunks drink Thai whiskey, mostly Samsong and Mekhong, and Lao Khao. Have you ever seen these products advertised on TV?

Enforcing the underage drinking laws by ID checks and a serious crackdown on drink-driving would be much more effective. The last tax hike obviously hasn't had the desired effect so we can probably expect more of the same.

Maybe it won't be as bad as the above article implies it may be. There must be some members of the Government with some common sense......... Or maybe not.

[re_fuse]

I only drink to make other people more interesting

[jaapfries]

MrMarty, why dont you go and do something usefull like interview the crowds of people at lets say... the world trade beer garden and see what they think about these early closing hours, the restrictions on lifestyle, the proposed earlier closing times, the selling of alcohol during daytime hours, blah blah.

===============================================================

MrMarty: "A Nerd Is Born" ! !

Sipping tea at the Shangri-La . . . . . . I believe you hit the nail on the head ! !

Duuuh ! ! !

Throughout the history of what is laughingly called "civilization", the biggest killers have been:

a. War (especially deaths of civilians)

b. Plagues such as the Black Death

c. Abuse of alcohol

h. Cigarette smoking

I don't know what d through g are.

Alcohol is surely the most expensive addiction in the world. It kills. It never gives life. Prime ministerial names aside, "intoxicate" means "to poison."

Religion is the biggest killer I'm afraid all other reasons are dwarfed in comparison.

===============================================================

'britmaveric' states:

Religion is the biggest killer I'm afraid all other reasons are dwarfed in comparison.

Can't argue with that: just do the maths, folks.

Let's stop this nonesense about beer-gardens; what happened to democratic choices by the people, hey ? ? ? Perhaps these "Law-Makers" should be shouted free, all-inclusive sojourn of, let's say, 3 months to a North Korean Resort . . . . . . . .

Let people decide what it is they want, for Pete's sake ! ! ! !

[ThaiPauly]

This is absolute NONSENSE

How on earth are they going to implement this without thousands more Thai's loosing their jobs.

As previously stated if this kind of miissmanagement of the country's tourist trade continues there won't be one

Many of those lovely Beer Girls will end up as Bar Girls once they loose their jobs

When will they get a grip and do something USEFUL

Why is it guys like you are only concerned about losing your girls. I wager not one of you would be in Thailand if not for the cheap sex and news laws like this only threatens your farang lifestyles.

What did I say to draw such a vitiolic response from you tofarty?

Must say you are going to be really popular on this forum

[the gent]

Throughout the history of what is laughingly called "civilization", the biggest killers have been:

a. War (especially deaths of civilians)

b. Plagues such as the Black Death

c. Abuse of alcohol

h. Cigarette smoking

I don't know what d through g are.

Alcohol is surely the most expensive addiction in the world. It kills. It never gives life. Prime ministerial names aside, "intoxicate" means "to poison."

Your catalogue requires refinement. Death becomes us all by one of two routes, inevitability or stupidity.

By nature, I prefer to indulge in the latter whilst waiting for the former. Observing pretty young ladies in pursuing the methods of my own self destruction can only be a bonus and one that I have happily enjoyed whilst in Thailand and not generally available in gloomy, drear Britain.

This new campaign is somewhat worrisome and typical of the current government's general dottiness.

One has as much chance of intelligent government in this country it seems as an orang utan has of winning the Nobel prize for literature.

[tweezer]

They do it with ciggies - Try and find a 7/11 with ciggies on display. All they have is a sign saying "we sell ciggarettes" which to me is pointless. Seems to me, all they are doing is hiding the brands on sale rather than the fact that they sell ciggarettes.

About one week after the implementation of the cigarette display ban, I read a quote from some director at the Public Health Ministry saying, "We were so successful with the banning of cigarette displays that we are now going to implement the same measures with alchohol."

If their objective is to force businesses to comply with their pointless schemes, then yes, they are very successful. If their objective is to improve public health and safety, then how the H_E_LL would they be able to deomstrate success after one week of hiding cigarettes? I'd love to see that data.

This alchohol marketing ban is the same thing; another silly scheme that does little or nothing to address the root causes of the problem it is supposed solve. And statements like that coming from from officials lead me to beleive that they either don't know what they're doing or they have objectives other than what they lead us to beleive.

[Greer]

There is no "cultural phenomenon" involved in "beer girls" at all - they are no different from any other form of promotional device.

The only difference between the girls working at a pub promoting Chang or Heineken and those working in Emporium during those car promotions or in fact any other shopping centre promoting anything at all is that they are promoting beer whereas the others are promoting cars or whatever. How complex is that??

Many pubs in the region have promotional methods of one sort or another, and this just happens to be one.

The issue here is that the closing of beer gardens will directly affect the custmers there who in many cases prefer the more casual outside atmosphere to that of the pub or club. It will of course affect the staff, who are eventually going to lose their jobs; they will then end up having to change the type of job, or look for work in a pub or club (as was mentioned earlier in the thread).

This proposal for stopping advertising of alcohol means, if I read it correctly, that NO signage of any sort would be allowed ANYWHERE - including inside the places where they sell it. All the beer mats in all pubs, clubs etc would have to be replaced, all the signage that has pictures of bottles or any other forms that include the name of the company etc, all decorative materials that have the names of any brand of alcohol would have to be removed etc.

Alcohol ABUSE does cause problems and can of course result in death by various means, it also affects the community as a whole - but we are talking about the abuse of the substance, so that is what should be targetted.

Merely removing advertising of the product will not stop those intent on getting blind drunk every night - those people are addicted - they are unlikely to be put off or forget their addiction because tey no longer see Beer Chang advertising on TV or in the pub - they will STILL drink themselves into a stupor anyway.

The advertising in many pubs and clubs often forms quite attractive decoration as well - yes, I grant you, not all advertising does, but it is part of the "pub culture" in any case.

The problem they are trying to tackle requires a lot more subtle solution than this simplistic, kneejerk reaction. It is a complex problem and although the vast simple masses may THINK this is helping, it will have little impact where it is needed. Thoughtless, ill-conceived legislation then becomes impossible to get rid of and the people suffer as a result - but many are unable to recognise the real reason for their difficulties.

Attacking farang for stating their objections and for highlighting some of the problems likely to result from politically motivated implementation of badly planned laws is an unfortunate reaction - I ask that all forum users consider using the forum for constructive criticism and discussion of subjects like this - not for jumping down each others throats as unfortunately happens quite often - but I must admit that most comments in this thread are actually relatively well thought out and on target - well done to all - I hope you receive my threepence worth of wordage in this same spirit...

/edit - spelling

Edited January 30, 2006 by Greer

[Pearler]

WOWSER is an old Aussie word for those people who want to ban things, particulalrly grog, smokes and sex (except procreational). These are the people who live in fear that someone somewhere might be having some fun.

What I am reading makes me fear that Thailand is caught in this strengthening trend to wowerism, that seems to be gathering pace around the world.

I am too bloody old to await the end of the cycle and a return to more liberal values.

So restrict advertising and tax beer by percentage of alchohol by all means, but leave people alone. There are plenty of Thais who like a beer and even a wine. Some people will abuse anything, even self-righteousness; let the rest make their choices.

[raro]

What's wrong with Silom Soi 4???

They serve alcohol all night, the club are open until 2AM and they do serve alcohol all night too, people are friendly and don't try to get you pissed (doesn't mean they don't want your money though...) there is always an after at the corner of the street where more drink and music is waiting for you !!!

..there is an after in Silom Soi 4? I think I heard about it...

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi there.

why is it that seemingly everybody starts whining as soon as there's a proposal to restrict anything to do with alcohol? Oh, yes..... dogs bark when hit. So i have to assume that everyone whining is an alcohol addict, right?

Don't get me wrong here. But why can't people have fun without alcohol??? Besides that this is talk about restrictions in ADVERTISING, which certainly won't stop alcohol being on sale, everyone starts talking immediately about how "tourism will come to an end", "thousands losing their jobs" etc etc etc. Same as was said when the the opening hours of bars etc were shortened.

What has happened? Exactly, nothing.

I enjoy going out at weekends, i live in Thailand since little over five years and have been doing so since i arrived here. I always have fun when going to my favourite club (DJ Station, which btw. is in Silom Soi 2, not Soi 4). yet - i have NEVER EVEN ONCE ordered anything alcoholic in there! Yes, i can perfectly have the fun of a lifetime, running completely on Coke! Coca Cola, that is.

And when i happen to be at Soi 4, Balcony, i dare to order a "Virgin Pina Colada", which indeed is a cocktail - without alcohol! Why? Because i don't need alcohol to have fun, fullstop!

And before you ask "what the hel_l is that guy taking then", i can tell you - nothing at all. I do smoke moderately (on a heavy day three ciggies and only when it's not disturbing anyone! Because i DO care for non-smokers) and i don't mind anyone getting drunk or stoned or whatever, but i myself just won't.

So what's wrong if they convert "Beer Gardens" to just "outdoor fun places"? Serve non-alcoholic beverages, heck promote the newest green tea flavours or some healthy fruit juices, and have the rest like it is - live music etc. Nobody will lose their job and it will be just as popular, maybe just the kind of visitors changes.

And nobody should say that "tobacco is more dangerous than alcohol". I can smoke a pack of cigarettes and still drive safely. I won't be able to do that after 20 beers. Both are drugs that addict after longer use. Both are serious health hazards. But i'd rather be exposed to some second-hand smoke than to the pickup truck of someone who downed half a bottle of whiskey or 10 Chang's and now wants to show his GF how fast his truck can go.

Because, face it: Alcohol-caused accidents kill way more people per year than second-hand smoke, and that is a fact! And in Bangkok, you always have the choice of what causes your lung cancer: Second-hand smoke from tobacco smokers, or that black stuff coming out of the rear end of buses and trucks. And if you're able to avoid THAT, you can also avoid second-hand tobacco smoke - because you have to stay inside your air-tight condo with artificial oxygen supply anyway.

Just my opinion.

Thanh

[Artisan]

....Don't get me wrong here. But why can't people have fun without alcohol??? Besides that this is talk about restrictions in ADVERTISING, which certainly won't stop alcohol being on sale, everyone starts talking immediately about how "tourism will come to an end", "thousands losing their jobs" etc etc etc.

No, it's more than that. It's also about asking the Excise Department to stop issuing licences for beer gardens. Please read the OP again.

[Simmo]

Throughout the history of what is laughingly called "civilization", the biggest killers have been:

a. War (especially deaths of civilians)

b. Plagues such as the Black Death

c. Abuse of alcohol

h. Cigarette smoking

Hmm .. your sources?? methinks Malaria would be near the top of that list.

[Simbo]

Couldn't we have, "Speak easy beer gardens" in basements?

[เพลง]

Hi there.

why is it that seemingly everybody starts whining as soon as there's a proposal to restrict anything to do with alcohol? Oh, yes..... dogs bark when hit. So i have to assume that everyone whining is an alcohol addict, right?

Don't get me wrong here. But why can't people have fun without alcohol??? Besides that this is talk about restrictions in ADVERTISING, which certainly won't stop alcohol being on sale, everyone starts talking immediately about how "tourism will come to an end", "thousands losing their jobs" etc etc etc. Same as was said when the the opening hours of bars etc were shortened.

What has happened? Exactly, nothing.

I enjoy going out at weekends, i live in Thailand since little over five years and have been doing so since i arrived here. I always have fun when going to my favourite club (DJ Station, which btw. is in Silom Soi 2, not Soi 4). yet - i have NEVER EVEN ONCE ordered anything alcoholic in there! Yes, i can perfectly have the fun of a lifetime, running completely on Coke! Coca Cola, that is.

But not everybody can be as perfect a human as yourself. We're sorry...

[RAZZELL]

I thought old age was the biggest killer....

[p_brownstone]

Alcohol is surely the most expensive addiction in the world. It kills. It never gives life. Prime ministerial names aside, "intoxicate" means "to poison."

The word Whiskey is a shortened form of usquebaugh, which English borrowed from Irish Gaelic uisce beatha and Scottish Gaelic uisge beatha. This compound descends from Old Irish uisce, "water," and bethad, "of life," and meaning literally "water of life." (It thus meant the same thing as the name of another drink, aquavit, which comes from Latin aqua vtae, "water of life.")

Pedantic .... Moi??

Patrick

[RamTodatry]

I would like to be the guy that hires those Tiger Beer gals.

[Artisan]

I would like to be the guy that hires those Tiger Beer gals.

Iwould like to be the guy who measures them up for their skirts.

[mogoso]

This is absolute NONSENSE

How on earth are they going to implement this without thousands more Thai's loosing their jobs.

As previously stated if this kind of miissmanagement of the country's tourist trade continues there won't be one

Many of those lovely Beer Girls will end up as Bar Girls once they loose their jobs

When will they get a grip and do something USEFUL

I'm way off base here, but is there an Islamic influence to all these "moral" laws being implemented the past few years. Obviously its not so much a health and safety issue as the powers that be keep stating. Otherwise proper sewage control would've been a top priority, safer water supplies in the country, safety in construction zones, holes in sidewalks, pollution from factories, flood control, ect ect It just seems to be a moral crackdown from a conservative religious viewpoint.

If drinking is a problem throw offenders in jail. Many countries have tough DUI laws, implement those and not hurt the countries tourist income economy. Lots of folk might start vacationing in Vietnam instead on LOS

[Patex]

But not everybody can be as perfect a human as yourself. We're sorry...

เพลง,

YOU are sorry, no need to speak for the others.

Everything what changes the attitude towards alcohol is highly welcome!

No advertising= no glorification= less attractive for following generations.

Patex

[marquess]

But not everybody can be as perfect a human as yourself. We're sorry...

เพลง,

YOU are sorry, no need to speak for the others.

Everything what changes the attitude towards alcohol is highly welcome!

No advertising= no glorification= less attractive for following generations.

Patex

Dream On!

[Johpa]

The vile concoction called Lao Kao is the poison of choice among young Thai males. Tax the hel_l out of that and highway deaths and violence would drop considerably.

Alas, if lao khao beacme more expensive it would simply be replaced by lao paa, which is what the rural folk drank before the more modern distribution systems were set up.

[Wiggy]

First a crackdown on tobacco displays so people won't be tempted to smoke, now a crackdown on alcohol displays so people won't be tempted to drink. What's next? Will the government force women to wear a bag over their head so people won't be tempted to rape them?!

[MyNameIsFarang]

So what's wrong if they convert "Beer Gardens" to just "outdoor fun places"? Serve non-alcoholic beverages, heck promote the newest green tea flavours or some healthy fruit juices, and have the rest like it is - live music etc. Nobody will lose their job and it will be just as popular, maybe just the kind of visitors changes.

Naive beyond words...

[Cappy]

Hi there.

why is it that seemingly everybody starts whining as soon as there's a proposal to restrict anything to do with alcohol? Oh, yes..... dogs bark when hit. So i have to assume that everyone whining is an alcohol addict, right?

Don't get me wrong here. But why can't people have fun without alcohol??? Besides that this is talk about restrictions in ADVERTISING, which certainly won't stop alcohol being on sale, everyone starts talking immediately about how "tourism will come to an end", "thousands losing their jobs" etc etc etc. Same as was said when the the opening hours of bars etc were shortened.

What has happened? Exactly, nothing.

I enjoy going out at weekends, i live in Thailand since little over five years and have been doing so since i arrived here. I always have fun when going to my favourite club (DJ Station, which btw. is in Silom Soi 2, not Soi 4). yet - i have NEVER EVEN ONCE ordered anything alcoholic in there! Yes, i can perfectly have the fun of a lifetime, running completely on Coke! Coca Cola, that is.

And when i happen to be at Soi 4, Balcony, i dare to order a "Virgin Pina Colada", which indeed is a cocktail - without alcohol! Why? Because i don't need alcohol to have fun, fullstop!

And before you ask "what the hel_l is that guy taking then", i can tell you - nothing at all. I do smoke moderately (on a heavy day three ciggies and only when it's not disturbing anyone! Because i DO care for non-smokers) and i don't mind anyone getting drunk or stoned or whatever, but i myself just won't.

So what's wrong if they convert "Beer Gardens" to just "outdoor fun places"? Serve non-alcoholic beverages, heck promote the newest green tea flavours or some healthy fruit juices, and have the rest like it is - live music etc. Nobody will lose their job and it will be just as popular, maybe just the kind of visitors changes.

And nobody should say that "tobacco is more dangerous than alcohol". I can smoke a pack of cigarettes and still drive safely. I won't be able to do that after 20 beers. Both are drugs that addict after longer use. Both are serious health hazards. But i'd rather be exposed to some second-hand smoke than to the pickup truck of someone who downed half a bottle of whiskey or 10 Chang's and now wants to show his GF how fast his truck can go.

Because, face it: Alcohol-caused accidents kill way more people per year than second-hand smoke, and that is a fact! And in Bangkok, you always have the choice of what causes your lung cancer: Second-hand smoke from tobacco smokers, or that black stuff coming out of the rear end of buses and trucks. And if you're able to avoid THAT, you can also avoid second-hand tobacco smoke - because you have to stay inside your air-tight condo with artificial oxygen supply anyway.

Just my opinion.

Thanh

No question, Thanh Alcohol Kills. As do cigarettes, too much fatty foods, no exercise and various other lifestyle choices. The banning (or restricting acess or promotion to various degrees) of a myriad of substances desired by mankind has been a significant social issue since the recording of civilization. Recent history has seen the prohibition era in the US, and currently the discussion concerning legalization of marijuana and the argument that legalizing other illicit drugs such as cocaine would in effect decrease demand, lower crime rates and in the end kill fewer people.

This current government wishes to restrict and in effect to lower alcohol consumption (or so goes the rationale) Unfortunately this is thier right as the makers of laws and the designers of the current social construct. (or so they wish to be).

I think the real question is Does this make any Frickin sense at all?! Economically, Socially - will it work? Will it last? Will it have the effect they want?

Or is it only a means of policital pressure on the LUCRATIVE alchohol trade that will -in the end- result in "personal" economic gain? more likely.

No one can - in thier right mind - think that the current "anti-booze" campaign will stop - or even significanly decrease Thais from drinking. It is a national pastime. So what is the real reason?

Health concerns, i am sure.... ?!

Anywhere outside of Bangkok the beer gardens or that style of venue is the primary (volume wise) means of retail sale for beer. They are also heavily subsidisded and supported by the beer companies (who fund and provide the beer girls, the advertising and the promotions through thier very large marketing budgets) who use the venues as a primary means of advertising thier product. It's a money issue.

Your incredibly niave statement that the beer gardens can just convert to selling fruit juice (actually i recommend green tea -it's on the rise!) is unfortunately not gonna happen dude.

I own 2 restaurants and a pub/club here in Asia and i can guarantee that these beer gardens if closed -will be turned into something that sells a product people demand... simple law of economics. You can't stop selling alchol - unless you wan't to become an islamic-style state (and i can't imagine the Thai people swallowing that one). But you can restrict advertising it.

The issue behind the beer gardens is the advertising issue -it's where the companies can effectively advertise (and sell) thier product even if prevented from running media ads.

Social Wholesomeness Campaign? maybe. Economics? Certainly. Effective and sustainable? No.