Gun-Toting God Image Recalls 2010 Violence: Thailand

[webfact]

Gun-toting god image recalls 2010 violence

THE NATION

PHRA RAHU, the Hindu god of darkness.

BANGKOK: -- Memories of the 2010 political violence have been revived by a new religious painting inside Wat Saket in Bangkok - depicted as Phra Rahu, the Hindu god of darkness, aiming a sniper rifle at the earth.

The image of Rahu with the sniper rifle has become the talk of the town. A senior monk at the temple said tourists and others were flocking to its new pavilion to take a look and get photos of the painting.

Phra Wichit Thammaporn, assistant abbot of Wat Saket, said the pavilion was opened on September 3 to house a new Buddha statue.

The painting, called "infinite universe", was the work of Pirapong Khunchit, a well-known artist who was among leading painters selected to take part in restoring a hall in the Grand Palace in 1980.

The Army has insisted no snipers were deployed to crack down on the red-shirt protesters, but some marksmen were deployed to protect their comrades by using assault rifles with scopes.

Phra Rahu in the painting clearly reveals a special high-precision sniper rifle.

Phra Wichit Thammaporn said the painting was not aimed at conveying any political message, but the temple simply wanted to record a key event, the time when troops were deployed to crack down on demonstrators.

The assistant abbot said the depiction was aimed at teaching a dharma concept. He said Phra Rahu was a semi-god and semi-demon. When blinded with anger and lust, he transformed from a god into a demon and in this case used the sniper rifle, firing it at the earth and causing hurt to others.

The assistant abbot said the head of Phra Rahu carried a small Buddha image - a message that had he been aware of dharma principles, he would have brought peace to the world.

-- The Nation 2012-09-17

[Siripon]

I wonder when Wat Thammakai is going to produce a mural of Steve Jobs as a mid level angel in a six floor building with 20 servants, as claimed by the abbot. What an insane temple!

[GentlemanJim]

Perhaps the Dharma message the Abbot should have remembered was as spoken by the Dalai Lama

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” – Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001)

Abbots should stay well out of politics, just as politicians should stay well away from offering spiritual guidance, and Thai politicians should stay well away from ....everything.

[Payboy]

Thammaporn

Now, that's really mixing business with pleasure.

[chooka]

What no rioting or allegations of blasphemy?

[Pib]

And a couple thousands years from now I can just see some tinfoil hat type--excuse me, ancient alien theorist--saying the painting is proof aliens attacked the Earth with space-based advanced weapons technology.

[MunterHunter]

This must be a 'fake' god/demon using a 'fake' sniper rifle in a 'fake' painting?

[Time Traveller]

What no rioting or allegations of blasphemy?

No it's not blasphemy, it's Thai culture ! Or probably those infidel Americans trying to make the Thais look bad.

Edited September 17, 2012 by Time Traveller

[rgs2001uk]

This must be a 'fake' god/demon using a 'fake' sniper rifle in a 'fake' painting?

I think its just an illusion.

[Always18]

This must be a 'fake' god/demon using a 'fake' sniper rifle in a 'fake' painting?

I think its just an illusion.

Allusion, methinks.......................!

[Payboy]

At least the pic's right about Thailand being the centre of the Earth.

[SICHONSTEVE]

Perhaps the Dharma message the Abbot should have remembered was as spoken by the Dalai Lama

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” – Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001)

Abbots should stay well out of politics, just as politicians should stay well away from offering spiritual guidance, and Thai politicians should stay well away from ....everything.

Except where this a nice little profit to be made (you can't deny them their god given rights to make money through dodgy dealings) - I mean what would be the point of entering politics in Thailand for if they couldn't reap the rewards of their ill gotten gains??

[tlansford]

Perhaps the Dharma message the Abbot should have remembered was as spoken by the Dalai Lama

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” – Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001)

Abbots should stay well out of politics, just as politicians should stay well away from offering spiritual guidance, and Thai politicians should stay well away from ....everything.

Why?

[tlansford]

seems like a distinctly Thai means of not sweeping everything under the rug...

[Rimmer]

One post removed, if you wish your post to remain in view please only use public figures correct names

[philw]

seems like a distinctly Thai means of not sweeping everything under the rug...

Nicely put.

[OzMick]

seems like a distinctly Thai means of not sweeping everything under the rug...

seems like a distinctly Thai means of not sweeping everything under the rug...

Then shouldn't the demon be wearing his black shirt?

[tlansford]

seems like a distinctly Thai means of not sweeping everything under the rug...

Nicely put.

Thanks.

As I recall from Thai history, after the '76 military massacres, there were no charges, no accountability and the Thai people managed to move on ...

It's not 1976 and and Thailand is not the same country, but "forgive and forget" or "at least pretend to forget" seems to have been a recipe used before. It doesn't surprise me that Thailand is tempted by the same solution this time around.

[seahorse]

Will we see thousands of Hindus out on the streets rioting and killing people because they do not like this representation of one of their gods?

[Pi Sek]

Perhaps the Dharma message the Abbot should have remembered was as spoken by the Dalai Lama

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” – Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001)

Abbots should stay well out of politics, just as politicians should stay well away from offering spiritual guidance, and Thai politicians should stay well away from ....everything.

Why?

I do hope you're joking!

Monks are forbidden from political involvement as part of their vows. That's not a Thai thing, it's a Buddhist thing. The Red Shirt monks (the real ones at least, not the ones hiding weapons under their sashes) claimed they were involving themselves to protect life but I'm afraid in my opinion that makes them very naive or very dishonest - I hope the former. They certainly had no business carrying out blessings for the blood-splattering of the encumbent PM's house.

A "good" politician (i.e. a professional one, unfortunately men with others' best interests have no swing in politics) has no interest in spiritual guidance other than to increase their power, in Thailand or anywhere else.

I presume the last bit about Thai politicians was a joke. I took it that way anyway.

[tlansford]

Perhaps the Dharma message the Abbot should have remembered was as spoken by the Dalai Lama

If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun.” – Dalai Lama (Seattle Times, 05-15-2001)

Abbots should stay well out of politics, just as politicians should stay well away from offering spiritual guidance, and Thai politicians should stay well away from ....everything.

Why?

I do hope you're joking!

Monks are forbidden from political involvement as part of their vows. That's not a Thai thing, it's a Buddhist thing. The Red Shirt monks (the real ones at least, not the ones hiding weapons under their sashes) claimed they were involving themselves to protect life but I'm afraid in my opinion that makes them very naive or very dishonest - I hope the former. They certainly had no business carrying out blessings for the blood-splattering of the encumbent PM's house.

A "good" politician (i.e. a professional one, unfortunately men with others' best interests have no swing in politics) has no interest in spiritual guidance other than to increase their power, in Thailand or anywhere else.

I presume the last bit about Thai politicians was a joke. I took it that way anyway.

Actually, it was just an honest question to GJ. It seems like he is using Buddhist religion to support a position justifying the military's use of lethal force and killing civilians. It would not be the first time on TVF. If that is the case, then I doubt very much that GJ understands the context of the Dalai Lama's quote. Additionally, the Dalai Lama was not, in that quote, teaching Dhamma, which is an obvious misstatement on GJ's part.

But GJ is a reasonable poster so he could very well have a reasoned position here and I am curious to hear it.

BTW, regarding your post, I do feel that religion should not be used for political purposes, but that would not prevent the monks from helping, assisting, or aiding people who are involved in politics or in a political situation. Monks have their responsibility to help people in society and society does include politics.

Where religion has been used as a political tool is amply evident in the west today and throughout our history. But specific to Thailand, I recall an example which is hideous. During the 70's, the military regime tried to use buddhism to support their killing. I imagine that you are familiar with Phra Kittiwuttho and his statements supporting the killing of communists as justified based on buddhist teachings. Monks in a Wat helping people in refuge or, in this case, preserving a memory of those events, hardly falls into the Phra Kittiwuttho category.

And I agree that the last part of GJs comment was humor. At least I hope

[rbrooks]

He should add a few giant waves of water to depict the floods we had too and maybe soon to have again.

[nurofiend]

This must be a 'fake' god/demon using a 'fake' sniper rifle in a 'fake' painting?

haha yeah, like the guys shooting at the temple.

[khaowong1]

Phra Rahu is a Hindu God, not a Buddhist God. As far as this being in Wat Saket, I'm a little surprised but not a lot. Some changes are going on there that I am not totally comfortable with. The old abbot has been moved up the ladder to take over the spot of the Supreme Patriarch when the current SP either steps down or passes away. The new hierarchy seems to have some kind of agenda that I can't quite put my finger on. They appear to be moving in the Dhammakaya direction out of their Mahanikai roots. I'm living in one of the Wat Saket approved Buddhist temples in the US right now, and am a little nervous.

[Pi Sek]

Actually, it was just an honest question to GJ. It seems like he is using Buddhist religion to support a position justifying the military's use of lethal force and killing civilians. It would not be the first time on TVF. If that is the case, then I doubt very much that GJ understands the context of the Dalai Lama's quote. Additionally, the Dalai Lama was not, in that quote, teaching Dhamma, which is an obvious misstatement on GJ's part.

But GJ is a reasonable poster so he could very well have a reasoned position here and I am curious to hear it.

BTW, regarding your post, I do feel that religion should not be used for political purposes, but that would not prevent the monks from helping, assisting, or aiding people who are involved in politics or in a political situation. Monks have their responsibility to help people in society and society does include politics.

Where religion has been used as a political tool is amply evident in the west today and throughout our history. But specific to Thailand, I recall an example which is hideous. During the 70's, the military regime tried to use buddhism to support their killing. I imagine that you are familiar with Phra Kittiwuttho and his statements supporting the killing of communists as justified based on buddhist teachings. Monks in a Wat helping people in refuge or, in this case, preserving a memory of those events, hardly falls into the Phra Kittiwuttho category.

And I agree that the last part of GJs comment was humor. At least I hope

I agree pretty much with everything you wrote and you have just caused me to learn something, as I was not familiar with Phra Kittiwuttho. A very short read later and I see where you're coming from.

However, your point about Phra Kittiwuttho sort of re-emphasises mine (and Buddhism's) that monks and politics shouldn't mix. Of course, I totally agree with you that helping those involved in politics or a political situation is another kettle of fish, but I wasn't talking about monks helping people getting out of the firing line; I was talking about monks either splashing blood on the then-PM's house or stopping the army from using force against those who are shooting (or even throwing stones) at the army, which I appreciate we may not agree was justified. But I'm sure you agree on the former.

However, back to painting - like all art, I suppose the details of what it represents is very much up to who is looking at it.

Phra Wichit Thammaporn said the painting was not aimed at conveying any political message, but the temple simply wanted to record a key event, the time when troops were deployed to crack down on demonstrators.

Very ambiguous from Phra Wichit! Any journalist on either side of the divide could make a number of theories of what he was insinuating, without too much sophism. In all honesty, I would have preferred The Nation to have come up with something more drafted towards my fellow TV-army-sympathisers, just to give them better trolling ammo! I decided to stop looking at Thaivisa last year due to the trolling, I see it hasn't laid up at all... but I am a sucker and respond to it, hence my inability to just read and not post.

[tlansford]

Actually, it was just an honest question to GJ. It seems like he is using Buddhist religion to support a position justifying the military's use of lethal force and killing civilians. It would not be the first time on TVF. If that is the case, then I doubt very much that GJ understands the context of the Dalai Lama's quote. Additionally, the Dalai Lama was not, in that quote, teaching Dhamma, which is an obvious misstatement on GJ's part.

But GJ is a reasonable poster so he could very well have a reasoned position here and I am curious to hear it.

BTW, regarding your post, I do feel that religion should not be used for political purposes, but that would not prevent the monks from helping, assisting, or aiding people who are involved in politics or in a political situation. Monks have their responsibility to help people in society and society does include politics.

Where religion has been used as a political tool is amply evident in the west today and throughout our history. But specific to Thailand, I recall an example which is hideous. During the 70's, the military regime tried to use buddhism to support their killing. I imagine that you are familiar with Phra Kittiwuttho and his statements supporting the killing of communists as justified based on buddhist teachings. Monks in a Wat helping people in refuge or, in this case, preserving a memory of those events, hardly falls into the Phra Kittiwuttho category.

And I agree that the last part of GJs comment was humor. At least I hope

I agree pretty much with everything you wrote and you have just caused me to learn something, as I was not familiar with Phra Kittiwuttho. A very short read later and I see where you're coming from.

However, your point about Phra Kittiwuttho sort of re-emphasises mine (and Buddhism's) that monks and politics shouldn't mix. Of course, I totally agree with you that helping those involved in politics or a political situation is another kettle of fish, but I wasn't talking about monks helping people getting out of the firing line; I was talking about monks either splashing blood on the then-PM's house or stopping the army from using force against those who are shooting (or even throwing stones) at the army, which I appreciate we may not agree was justified. But I'm sure you agree on the former.

However, back to painting - like all art, I suppose the details of what it represents is very much up to who is looking at it.

Phra Wichit Thammaporn said the painting was not aimed at conveying any political message, but the temple simply wanted to record a key event, the time when troops were deployed to crack down on demonstrators.

Very ambiguous from Phra Wichit! Any journalist on either side of the divide could make a number of theories of what he was insinuating, without too much sophism. In all honesty, I would have preferred The Nation to have come up with something more drafted towards my fellow TV-army-sympathisers, just to give them better trolling ammo! I decided to stop looking at Thaivisa last year due to the trolling, I see it hasn't laid up at all... but I am a sucker and respond to it, hence my inability to just read and not post.

I think we are probably in agreement on politics/religion/monks on most levels. Each situation is different and may be seen in a different light by different people.

Monks have taken a station in life which is to serve and teach. That station does exclude them from participating in politics. But their responsibilities are to teach people and to help the world through this work. There may be situations where that takes them into unconventional situations. The Dalai Lama is a perfect example of a monk in such a situation.

As for the painting, ... people will undoubtedly view it as a political statement. It is already happening. OTOH, I can see how a monk could honestly state that it records a key event.