When Rip Offs Become Grotesque

[bdw]

Be happy knowing your is getting rip offs

Yes you are.

[evadgib]

Taxis are not expensive here compared to Perth Western Australia

Weekdays tariff monday to friday 6am to 6pm and this is the cheapest time to hire a taxi

Flagfall $3.90

distance rate $1.64 per Km

Detention charge $45.70 per hour

The last time i changed money i got 32.4 baht per AUD

Work it out for yourself

Of course, cab prices in OZ are very high.

But comparing Phuket with the rest of Thailand, a fairer comparison, the prices are 5x 6x 7x etcetera

I have always paid the meter fare when catching a taxi from the airport and its a pity the metered taxis are not allowed to operate freely here like in Bangkok and Ko samui but with the amount of corruption here it is not likely to happen

My Bold: The red light in the cab window is mearly bait in order to entrap the unwary. One recent initiative that fell flat on it's a*se was the idea that they (Samui taxis) would add a THB 90 surcharge to the price shown on the meter. A letter in the local rag from a family of 4 later complained that this was EACH!

Edited September 17, 2012 by evadgib

[cekipa]

"How much you want to pay" and taking the calculator.. I normally refuse to deal with these kind of sales people.

Then again. If you have a bit extra time and wish to give a payback, play stupid. Make your start offer triple the value of the goods or the taxi ride. Notice the greedy eyes on the other party. Be tough with your price.. and let it go a bit higher. Then when it's time to close the deal. say that oh.. I forgot that I don't have enough money for the item. If the other party drops the price at this moment, just say something like "oh no, I can not agree with lower price. It would not be fair for you.. you would loose money" .. and then walk away with few wais.

Then again, if the other party says at the start that you are offering too much, then you might have a possibility to make an real deal.

Well. What the White Man you are. I've seen people like you and felt ashamed for your attempts at 'I'll show the little brown man what's what'.

I too refuse to negotiate with the 'how much you pay' contingent, up to a point. But to take pleasure in watching the disappointment in their eyes as your ego kicks in truly sickens me. I had a friend who'd set out his stall way out of any market area, was asking very reasonable prices for the QUALITY goods he sold, when some Italian had him set aside several items and then offered 10 baht an laughed and walked away. asshol_e.

I think that Oilinki behavior was not directed to shoppers asking rasonable prices for good quality but quite the opposite and I reckon that your example of asshol_e Italians giving 10 bath sickens me in the same way looking at the pleasure on the guy's eyes while asking 900 baht putting it as a "special price for you"

[paulfromphuket]

This topic has gone through quite a development, from rip off taxi's to over priced market stalls. so lets go back to the the OP big whinge,

Buying so called branded items from market stalls is killing jobs in the genuine factories and enslaving workers in sweat shops,

I don't buy fakes, they last five minutes and look crap, I go to a real shop and buy the real thing which is usually good value as it is as often been made here or in China they last for ages and whilst might be 30% more thah a fake is worth it.

I laugh when I seen some dumb tourist sporting a gold rolex knowing it will be in the bin in three weeks time which it won't even keep.

As for taxi's well it just aint gonna change.

Thailand is a great shopping destiation, with the VAT refund you can buy good real products here at very good prices, but it is not a place to come and fill your fake Louis Vuitton suitcase full of Gucci and be happy 3 months later when it's all fallen apart

[NamKangMan]

"How much you want to pay" and taking the calculator.. I normally refuse to deal with these kind of sales people.

Then again. If you have a bit extra time and wish to give a payback, play stupid. Make your start offer triple the value of the goods or the taxi ride. Notice the greedy eyes on the other party. Be tough with your price.. and let it go a bit higher. Then when it's time to close the deal. say that oh.. I forgot that I don't have enough money for the item. If the other party drops the price at this moment, just say something like "oh no, I can not agree with lower price. It would not be fair for you.. you would loose money" .. and then walk away with few wais.

Then again, if the other party says at the start that you are offering too much, then you might have a possibility to make an real deal.

Well. What the White Man you are. I've seen people like you and felt ashamed for your attempts at 'I'll show the little brown man what's what'.

I too refuse to negotiate with the 'how much you pay' contingent, up to a point. But to take pleasure in watching the disappointment in their eyes as your ego kicks in truly sickens me. I had a friend who'd set out his stall way out of any market area, was asking very reasonable prices for the QUALITY goods he sold, when some Italian had him set aside several items and then offered 10 baht an laughed and walked away. asshol_e.

Well, if the shop owner was trying to rip him off with a ridiculous price of 900 baht - i have no problem with the Italian "taking the piss."

Thai's "on the rip" - farangs "on the con" and then you have all the instituionalised scams such as jet-skis and tuk-tuks, and just when you thought that was it, there's all the corruption with officials and police.

Phuket has become a battle ground for survival. :)

Nothing to do with skin colour.

Edited September 17, 2012 by NamKangMan

[Guest]

This topic has gone through quite a development, from rip off taxi's to over priced market stalls. so lets go back to the the OP big whinge,

Buying so called branded items from market stalls is killing jobs in the genuine factories and enslaving workers in sweat shops,

I don't buy fakes, they last five minutes and look crap, I go to a real shop and buy the real thing which is usually good value as it is as often been made here or in China they last for ages and whilst might be 30% more thah a fake is worth it.

I laugh when I seen some dumb tourist sporting a gold rolex knowing it will be in the bin in three weeks time which it won't even keep.

As for taxi's well it just aint gonna change.

Thailand is a great shopping destiation, with the VAT refund you can buy good real products here at very good prices, but it is not a place to come and fill your fake Louis Vuitton suitcase full of Gucci and be happy 3 months later when it's all fallen apart

I would like to believe that everybody knows that there is no such thing as 4 euro Louis Vuitton handbag or 10 euro Rolex. When ever these are offered, it's time to pay with Monopoly money. "Yes sir, real money, like you watch".

The funny part of this is that even tough the US (international?) patent laws are sometimes silly, there is no patent for clothing nor bags. Only the brand or trade mark can be patented, not the cut of the clothes. That's one reason why some of the manufacturers put their trademarks all over the products, like Louis Vuitton - an truly ugly example.

There is plenty of good products and clothes in Thailand. Good quality done with good materials and sold with reasonable price... but no LV logos to show for others.

[noob7]

We have different perspectives indeed. An item whose starting price becomes a smiling "special price for you" at 900 baht while for the same item all the other shoppers start from 500/600 without claiming "special price for you",

But 900 is a very special price, for you, , indeed. He's not even making it up!

My usual reaction on these kind of special prices is, to leave with a laugh and a 'koop khun', but no krap.

[noob7]

Taxis are not expensive here compared to Perth Western Australia

Weekdays tariff monday to friday 6am to 6pm and this is the cheapest time to hire a taxi

Flagfall $3.90

distance rate $1.64 per Km

Detention charge $45.70 per hour

The last time i changed money i got 32.4 baht per AUD

Work it out for yourself

The average Aussie works for 10 AUD A DAY, in Perth?

[ ] Yes, Australia is a developing country, too

[ ] No, and I understand now, what it is all about, with the TUK TUK/Taxis in Phuket!

[noob7]

]your missing something,these items cost them to buy ,around a hundred baht.

That is only true, if they would buy at the producer. But, like almost every business in Thailand, many of them have a middleman, hiding his/her source.

But 150/180, if acceptable quality, should be possible.

'My' favorite t-shirt seller, over the past 15 years, closed down her business, last year: She don't wanted the trouble with the t-shirt mafia, any longer. I could buy shirts there, good quality, 'Farang-Size', brand copies or simple good looking, without billabong (p.ex) on it, for as little as 120-150 baht. Her usual price, in a tourist area was 200-250, others around asked for double!

[noob7]

My wife just told me last week that she was intrigued by the signs above items in the stalls in the "Expo Market" in Phuket town not far from the Royal Phuket City Hotel.

In one particular example of a product that she was looking at, the card said "99/990". She was advised that the price of 99 Baht was for Thai people and the 990 baht was for foreigners. Further investigation by her yielded the information that this appeared to be standard practise many of the stalls in the area.

I am sure that you can come to your own conclusions in this.

How dare you are, to 'speak' this out! Kiii Nok / Farang ruuu maak ;-)

A good thing, to do in this cases:

"Rakhaa khon Thai daai mai, krap/khaa?

First: loosing face, cause Farang no about tactics

Second: Many try to get face back and get you quickly the Thai price, to make you stop talking about it.

It's only 'bad', if these double pricing is in Thai numbers (Thai price) and in 'our' letters for us. (Like in Temples and national parks, usually), as long you don't know the Thai numbers. Something to learn?

[NamKangMan]

Taxis are not expensive here compared to Perth Western Australia

Weekdays tariff monday to friday 6am to 6pm and this is the cheapest time to hire a taxi

Flagfall $3.90

distance rate $1.64 per Km

Detention charge $45.70 per hour

The last time i changed money i got 32.4 baht per AUD

Work it out for yourself

An interesting post petercallen. Let's do the maths.

Say a tourist is at the end of Bangla Road at 2am and wants to go 1km up Rat-U-Thit Road to their hotel. (possibly Holiday Inn or The Mecure)If they are lucky, they will be quoted by a tuk-tuk driver the price of 200 baht. Remember, that's if they are lucky - he can make up any price he wants, but 200 baht is the mimimum. So, the tourist agrees on 200 baht and I gets in.

At the time of this post, 200 baht = $6.20AU

Now, the same journey in Perth - Australia would cost that same tourist $3.90 flag fall + $1.64 for the kilometre journey. Total: $5.54AUD

So, the tuk-tuks are dearer than an Australian taxi.

Now, the Australian taxi has air-conditioning, seat belts, comfortable seating, a trained, licenced and sober driver and the vehicle meets public passenger safety standards, is insured and certified road worthy.

Now, the average daily wage here is 300 baht. So, the tourist is paying two thirds of the average daily wage for a guy to drive one kilometre. No more than 5 minutes drive. That's like you paying an Australian taxi driver $100AUD to drive one kilometre.

The cost of living aside, which some other members have pointed out, can you see why transport is such a problem for tourists, and the tourism industry, on Phuket now???? The tuk-tuks are in fact, dearer that Australian taxis.

[cdmtdm]

last week i decided to do the visa run via Nong Khai using the VIP bus service ...here are some points and comparisons on our ridiculous taxi /tuk tuk situation on this mafia central island ..

1/ van pickup from Ya Nui to new Bus station in Phuket Town via my local guys , nice clean a/cond van peak hour traffic 500 baht for a one hour trip

2/ VIP Bus to BKK 12 hour journey incl snacks 1054 baht big comfy seats easy to sleep

3/ VIP Bus BKK to Nong Khai 10 hour journey 680 baht again good comfy trip

4/ VIP Bus back to BKK cheaper and incl full meal 580 baht again good trip

5/ taxi from Mo Chit to Southern bus terminal , walked out to taxi ramp, no wait , metered cab , 31km in peak hour traffic 165 baht , 45 mins ,the driver was clean well spoken and i enjoyed our chat , he makes a good living in his own cab and competes against 100,000 other cabs in BKK , i mentioned Phuket taxis he laughed Mafia get very rich !!!

6/ VIP bus back to phuket same cost as trip up same service ..

7 / now here is the head turner ... arrived at our new bus station 8 am in the morning , looked for a cab , none , no line up ... <deleted> have a look around i see a board with prices same as the airport deal so much to each area ... 500 baht to rawai , no ya nui , no nai harn ... what the hell i had no other choice , lined up, some slob grunted and took my money and assigned me to another mafia associate ... he takes me to a Suzuki Carry which is a large tuk tuk , throws my bag in the back and tells me i am welcome to sit in the front . I try and manage to squeeze in the cab ( made for dwarfs) i am overwhelmed by a stench in the cab , not sure if it was dog shit or his breathe but i couldnt hack it .. so i opt for the back ...40 mins later with no feelings left in my body from the jolts he pulls up for directions , i say Ya Nui ... nooooo u pay for Rawai ... i say the board did not have Ya Nui or Nai Harn ( showed him my iphone pic of the board) he grumbled on and drove me another 10 mins of hell ...sure enough he hits me up for more as he hits my soi , i stopped him grabbed my bag and walked the rest of the way ...an absolute disgrace ... had this been my first impression of the island i for sure would not be back ...

Phuket is Mafia Central ......

[hansgruber]

Topic has been flogged to death for decades.

Do we really need version 6383625?

[petercallen]

Taxis are not expensive here compared to Perth Western Australia

Weekdays tariff monday to friday 6am to 6pm and this is the cheapest time to hire a taxi

Flagfall $3.90

distance rate $1.64 per Km

Detention charge $45.70 per hour

The last time i changed money i got 32.4 baht per AUD

Work it out for yourself

The average Aussie works for 10 AUD A DAY, in Perth?

[ ] Yes, Australia is a developing country, too

[ ] No, and I understand now, what it is all about, with the TUK TUK/Taxis in Phuket!

This is an expat forum and how many work for 300baht or $10 a day, it would not surprise me if there are a few the way some people whinge about prices on here

[NamKangMan]

Topic has been flogged to death for decades.

Do we really need version 6383625?

True, however, the prices have gone up, AGAIN, and have also been ratified by officials, so, time for yet another thread. :) :)

[britpop]

it's a fact people buy on nearly 90% emotion, 10% logic, if it was the other way round we'd all drive eco cheap cars, a suitable small house, not indulge because logic would determine the outcome, to one person what is called a rip off to someone else is value for money.

a beer in a back street bar, 50-60 baht, yet the same beer in a night club, 3-4 times as much, why???the over heads are more, but they get more turnover in comparison to the back street places.

bottle of wine from a supermarket is sold in a good restaurant at a greatly inflated price, who complains.

the basic food stuffs of a good meal broken down are just that, product, wine is just grapes, a porches car at the start of it's life is basically the same metal as a skoda.

yet desire and emotion are the sellers tools

so a taxi fair perceived as value for money, would it be a rip off if the taxi was run on LPG at 13 baht per litre, or you had to be somewhere to clinch a deal worth millions of baht, you'd pay the taxi driver anything to get you there.

It's all perception and common sense.

i must go up to the next bikers week, dressed in my missionary outfit and spout the benefits of 125cc scooters

[NamKangMan]

it's a fact people buy on nearly 90% emotion, 10% logic, if it was the other way round we'd all drive eco cheap cars, a suitable small house, not indulge because logic would determine the outcome, to one person what is called a rip off to someone else is value for money.

a beer in a back street bar, 50-60 baht, yet the same beer in a night club, 3-4 times as much, why???the over heads are more, but they get more turnover in comparison to the back street places.

bottle of wine from a supermarket is sold in a good restaurant at a greatly inflated price, who complains.

the basic food stuffs of a good meal broken down are just that, product, wine is just grapes, a porches car at the start of it's life is basically the same metal as a skoda.

yet desire and emotion are the sellers tools

so a taxi fair perceived as value for money, would it be a rip off if the taxi was run on LPG at 13 baht per litre, or you had to be somewhere to clinch a deal worth millions of baht, you'd pay the taxi driver anything to get you there.

It's all perception and common sense.

i must go up to the next bikers week, dressed in my missionary outfit and spout the benefits of 125cc scooters

In relation to Phuket, I think you could also add "ego" of the purchaser onto the list of "seller's tools."

Edited September 18, 2012 by NamKangMan

[cekipa]

Topic has been flogged to death for decades.

Do we really need version 6383625?

Probably not many members can recall from 1 to 6383624 like many other repetitive topics in this forum. If you do not like it, just skip it Mr Gruber

[cekipa]

it's a fact people buy on nearly 90% emotion, 10% logic,.......

......yet desire and emotion are the sellers tools......

.....It's all perception and common sense.....

The 900 baht naka market geezer perception and common sense probably told him that I had an emotional strong desire towards his Billabong. I will try to change body language then...

[cdmtdm]

Topic has been flogged to death for decades.

Do we really need version 6383625?

more reason to keep flogging it ...... its getting worse not better ....

[geriatrickid]

making their profit unreasonable?

Given that all sellers are Thais, pay same rental cost and electricity and 900 baht is a reasonable price, offering the same item starting at 500/600 baht does not make the profit reasonable.... or am I missing something ?

A seller considers the price fair where he makes a reasonable profit.

An item starting at 500/600 baht and selling at that starting price could be achieving a good profit for the seller. Let us rank 'good profit' one notch above reasonable, for arguments sake

Then there is 900 Baht. At 900 baht, if the seller achieves this, he has made an 'excellent profit'.

Excellent profit selling for 900 baht

Good profit selling for 500/600 baht

Reasonable profit selling for 450 baht (seller considers this price fair for both parties)

Covering overheads selling for 400 baht

You can use whatever terminology you want in place of mine.

A buyer could see any of these price points as being a fair price to themselves. It depends on the buyer.

Retail mark up of clothing is typically 50-100% of wholesale cost. If the overhead, which I assume includes cost of goods, is 400 baht then at an expected markup, a retailer would make set the price at 600-800 baht. Stores will often feature a 20% discount sale price on goods that are marked up 100%, giving a retail price of 640 which looks like a good deal, but really isn't. No big secret on how retail prices are structured. Consumers are more likely to purchase if they see a sale or discount price.

[BookMan]

making their profit unreasonable?

Given that all sellers are Thais, pay same rental cost and electricity and 900 baht is a reasonable price, offering the same item starting at 500/600 baht does not make the profit reasonable.... or am I missing something ?

A seller considers the price fair where he makes a reasonable profit.

An item starting at 500/600 baht and selling at that starting price could be achieving a good profit for the seller. Let us rank 'good profit' one notch above reasonable, for arguments sake

Then there is 900 Baht. At 900 baht, if the seller achieves this, he has made an 'excellent profit'.

Excellent profit selling for 900 baht

Good profit selling for 500/600 baht

Reasonable profit selling for 450 baht (seller considers this price fair for both parties)

Covering overheads selling for 400 baht

You can use whatever terminology you want in place of mine.

A buyer could see any of these price points as being a fair price to themselves. It depends on the buyer.

Retail mark up of clothing is typically 50-100% of wholesale cost. If the overhead, which I assume includes cost of goods, is 400 baht then at an expected markup, a retailer would make set the price at 600-800 baht. Stores will often feature a 20% discount sale price on goods that are marked up 100%, giving a retail price of 640 which looks like a good deal, but really isn't. No big secret on how retail prices are structured. Consumers are more likely to purchase if they see a sale or discount price.

We all like a bargain but sometimes a sale is not a sale

I like the Kito brand of flip flops which I get at Robinsons for about 255-340 baht a pair. I had my eyes on some at 255 baht and I was going to buy them. The day I went they had a 30% off sale. Excellent I thought, so I bought them.

At the counter they were still 255 baht. Discount applied already apparently, when I asked.

[Chicog]

I saw a shirt I liked once and asked the bloke if he had it in XL. After an extensive check it turned out he didn't. So I said thank you and wandered off, only for the idiot to chase me down the street with an L shouting "Mr! I give you good price!".

Unless anyone knows a diet that works that quickly, I think he was a bit dim.

[britpop]

it's a fact people buy on nearly 90% emotion, 10% logic, if it was the other way round we'd all drive eco cheap cars, a suitable small house, not indulge because logic would determine the outcome, to one person what is called a rip off to someone else is value for money.

a beer in a back street bar, 50-60 baht, yet the same beer in a night club, 3-4 times as much, why???the over heads are more, but they get more turnover in comparison to the back street places.

bottle of wine from a supermarket is sold in a good restaurant at a greatly inflated price, who complains.

the basic food stuffs of a good meal broken down are just that, product, wine is just grapes, a porches car at the start of it's life is basically the same metal as a skoda.

yet desire and emotion are the sellers tools

so a taxi fair perceived as value for money, would it be a rip off if the taxi was run on LPG at 13 baht per litre, or you had to be somewhere to clinch a deal worth millions of baht, you'd pay the taxi driver anything to get you there.

It's all perception and common sense.

i must go up to the next bikers week, dressed in my missionary outfit and spout the benefits of 125cc scooters

In relation to Phuket, I think you could also add "ego" of the purchaser onto the list of "seller's tools."

"ego" would come under desire, how ever you package it up people buy on 2 things desire or fear of loss, i'm talking what you would call luxury items, not the needs of everyday living, a taxi in relation to a mini bus is quite a luxury, a mini bus is luxury to a motor bike taxi and a motor bike taxi is luxury to walking, a metered taxi from the airport to patong is as little as 450baht, yet a 2 minute tuk tuk ride in patong is minimum 200baht.

again if we all thought in logic terms not emotional we'd all be justifying every purchase for value for money, life would come t o grinding halt

[lumply]

Wow, this all a bit of an eye opener. I have been to Thailand many times (3 so far this year from the Middle East), and plan to hang my hat there. somewhere, for three months a year when the big 65 arrives. One of the places I was considering was Phuket. Apart from the scams which one finds all over Thailand to varying degrees, has anyone anything positive to say about Phuket? Back to plan A, Hua Hin methinks.

[Stanley Jerd]

Wow, this all a bit of an eye opener. I have been to Thailand many times (3 so far this year from the Middle East), and plan to hang my hat there. somewhere, for three months a year when the big 65 arrives. One of the places I was considering was Phuket. Apart from the scams which one finds all over Thailand to varying degrees, has anyone anything positive to say about Phuket? Back to plan A, Hua Hin methinks.

I wouldnt worry about the majority of jaded rawaii expats that frequent this forum. Dont meet the girl of your dreams in icon bar and you should be fine. Also stay away fromthe stepfather role, and any land deals are normally shonky. Kick back in Phuket. Dye your hair blue and fly around on a honda wave and you'll fit right in and have a blast

[hansgruber]

Stay away from expats selling cocaine.

Seems to be the easy way to stay here.

[cekipa]

Wow, this all a bit of an eye opener. I have been to Thailand many times (3 so far this year from the Middle East), and plan to hang my hat there. somewhere, for three months a year when the big 65 arrives. One of the places I was considering was Phuket. Apart from the scams which one finds all over Thailand to varying degrees, has anyone anything positive to say about Phuket? Back to plan A, Hua Hin methinks.

Come here and enjoy swimming, the beach, the sunshine, the landscape in general and consider a pretty good range of restaurants and private hospitals second only to Bangkok. Forget locals: the less you have to do with them, the better.

[stevenl]

Stay away from expats selling cocaine.

Seems to be the easy way to stay here.

Care to expand on this comment? I'm curious.

Edited September 21, 2012 by stevenl

[noob7]

Wow, this all a bit of an eye opener. I have been to Thailand many times (3 so far this year from the Middle East), and plan to hang my hat there. somewhere, for three months a year when the big 65 arrives. One of the places I was considering was Phuket. Apart from the scams which one finds all over Thailand to varying degrees, has anyone anything positive to say about Phuket? Back to plan A, Hua Hin methinks.

There are a couple of bowling alleys?