Britons Avoid Surat Thani After Killing

[charlesfrith]

Including the Thai Population in your tourism figures distorts the picture. The projection for last year was 13.8 million foreign visitors. Agrarian incomes are not sufficent to travel abroad and so travel to Australia for tourism is beyond their means.

Now, the crucial point here is that Thailand has always 'banked' on a compound growth of circa 10-20% year in year out; despite; Gulf War, SARS, Asian Economic Downturn, Bird Flu, Extra Judicial Killings and the long list of Thai Guys milling about on Sukhumvit 11 who compete with the Albanian Mafia in the innocent-and-friendly-looking-guys-that-hang-on-street-corners-stakes. The tourism levels keep growing. Its also why everyone took a metaphorical fiscal shit after the Tsunami.

Then you may wish take a closer look at one of the largest tourism authorities in the world, that highlights the internecine pork barrel warfare and feeble advertising that evidently must be lining a few media boys pockets, not to mention the Japanese agency they hire.

In short the only thing that stops tourism, is a rape murder that hits the tabloids. That's why those fishermen were rounded up so quickly and are being executed. Without pressure from abroad it would have been swept under the beach hut.

The thing about all this massive growth (Thailand wants 20 million visitors very very soon) is that it pumps up prices, strains the infrastructure, poisons the environment and makes greedy people even greedier. I'm of the opinion that a flatter tourism growth curve would be good for Thailand. The word sustainable is mocked in a world that has finite resources, and sees growth as the only way forward. Growth is greed and the rich are the greediest...... This is a fact.

Considering the number of tourists that vist Thailand each year, together with the Thai population ( about 70 million I believe) ...and the fact that many are living around the poverty line, the crimes affecting tourists seem to be small to me. There seem to have been as many or more tourists murdered in Australia in the last few years as there has been in Thailand... and our population is oly 18 million and the majority are well above the poverty line.

As for accidental deaths, quite a few tourists drown here in Australia each year, or get eaten by crocodiles or sharks ....or die or are seriously injured in car and bus crashes.

I have never been to the south of Thailand but have spent many excellent vacations in Bangkok and the Chiang Mai area.... (and I'm going there again in 2 days time). I have never yet had a bad experience but i usually avoid areas frequented by western tourists if i can.

[pubboy]

Although having not been to Koh Samui myself I have friends who have and friends from England who live there.

I shall be returning to Phuket for the first time since the Tsunami this April and although my wife is afraid of the ghosts, we are going to do our bit to help the economy.

We work in an enviroment where drink and drug related crime and violence is a norm and find it refreshing and relaxing to return to LOS.

[sibeymai]

If it wasn't a murder to reduce the number of tourists it would have been something else. Perhaps all the bad press about the police and taxi mafia on the island, or somethimg equally disagreeable.

Regardless, Samui's time in the sun as a tourist nirvana will end as surely as development will continue unceasingly until it's just another over-exploited and over developed destination like so many others. And the same will happen to the rest of Thailand given long enough.

Why do those responsible think there is something special about Thailand which will magically preserve its tourist appeal ? There's an unspoilt alternative springing up somewhere else in the world at least every day.

When the golden goose has become the ugly duckling people will start to ask why....but those with the answers will have made enough money so they can go elsewhere and leave the garbage dump they created to the locals to live with.

Thai's have nobody to blame but themselves and their "mai pen rai" attitude which is all too often used as an excuse to do nothing...which after all is something which a large number of Thais seem to be very good at.

[KhunMarco]

30% drop of Britons?

Time to go back to Samui

Just kidding , don't get all excited

[bluie]

Significant drop in tourist numbers

THAI cancels direct flights

The murder of Welsh tourist Katherine Horton on Thailand's holiday island of Koh Samui has led to a significant drop in the number of foreign tourists, including Australians, to the province.

Two Thai fishermen have already been sentenced to death for the rape and murder of the 21-year-old British backpacker on New Year's Day.

The tourist island was shocked by the murder of Horton, whose body was found in the ocean after she was last seen strolling alone on a beach on the evening of January 1.

According to the Tourism Authority of Thailand, visitor numbers to the southern province of Surat Thani, which includes Koh Samui, fell by 30 per cent in the first month of 2006.

Spokesman Pramote Spyen said it was obvious Horton's murder had affected tourism, even though two men had been quickly arrested, tried and sentenced.

Dosn't the writer of this article have the courticy to refer to Katherine Horton as Miss Horton

when they state "the tourist island was shocked by the murder of Horton"?

Australian visitor numbers had been affected, dropping an estimated 10 per cent, but British tourist numbers were the worst hit, he said.

A third of the expected visitors to Koh Samui and nearby island Koh Pha-ngan had cancelled high-season trips to the islands, he said.

Australians are estimated to spend about $A250 a day each on holidays in Thailand and on that basis the islands had already lost millions of dollars so far this year, the spokesman said.

Police said they were introducing stricter safety measures on Koh Samui and neighbouring islands to protect tourists.

This included assigning English-speaking officers to warn foreigners against going to what he described as "risky places".

Meanwhile, falling tourist numbers have prompted Thai International to cancel direct flights from Sydney and Melbourne to the southern resort town of Phuket from February 1.

Tourism companies are to ask the airline to reconsider its decision.

--AAP 2006-01-30

[benlee53]

I just returned from kho samui ,my buddy and i took our harleys and i have to tell you kho samui is a big garbage dump.I could'nt belive the amount of trash both on the way in the water but also when we got there.The island just stunk and the roads omg the roads had hugh holes in them .I won't be going back to that sh-t hole again

[nikster]

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.

When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

agreed.

it needs a complete overhaul.

i know two large family groups from the uk , they visited samui early january for two weeks , stayed at a large resort hotel , they said they would never go back. the hotel experience and the beach were wonderful , but once they stepped outside of the hotel the enjoyment ended.

the public transport system

the taxi drivers

the dump that is called chaweng.

the bigger dump that is called lamai

the scruffiness and filth

the poor service

the surliness and unfriendliness of the thais in the street markets and the shoddy tat they try to sell.

the total lack of any sense of aesthetics about development.

the car hire company that tried to charge them for the repair to the car when it failed to start.

the dangerous driving and road system

the padding of bills on three occasions restaurants , and the problems in correcting the restaurants mistakes.

these people like to spend and enjoy , but check all bills and will not tolerate sleazy rip offs.

that's 12 high end tourists who wont return , and you can bet that they will tell many many others about their thai samui experience.

its not only the crime that will make people wary of visiting.

I agree.

I was in Samui some years ago and it was already apparent that this was going to go downhill. Chaweng and Lamai used to be beautiful beaches but the shotgun developments there are ridiculous. I would not want to stay there, let alone pay a lot of $ for it.

And well, bar girls are not exactly family-vacation friendly. The place has to decide who the target audience is - a combination of Pattaya and Club Med isn't very appealing

[thefusilier]

The cabs in Samui alone was enough to give me a negative impression. I can almost ignore everything else, but those guys are awful.

[Sheryl]

Britons avoid Surat Thani after killing

Surat Thani provincial police chief Maj-General Voravate Vinitnatyanon said police have been planning stricter safety measure to prevent crime and are assigning officers who speak English to warn tourists about going to risky places.

--The Nation 2006-01-30

I wonder how they will define "risky places"given that the murder occurred on one of the 2 most hevaily populated beaches on the island?

[Jim 50]

Shame, It takes a few idiots to runied it for everyone. Lets hope the people change their mind and comes back to LOS.

However, It will not stop us from visitng koh' Phangan, samui and Tao in late April.

If only it were just a few idiots. The shame is it takes a murder to get the truth out about lawless Ko Samui. Ko Samui is no more suitable for tourism than Pattaya is for swimming. A drop in tourism is the only thing Thailand understands.

Hats off to The Brits for getting the word out.

[Eureka]

Considering the number of tourists that vist Thailand each year, together with the Thai population ( about 70 million I believe) ...and the fact that many are living around the poverty line, the crimes affecting tourists seem to be small to me. There seem to have been as many or more tourists murdered in Australia in the last few years as there has been in Thailand... and our population is oly 18 million and the majority are well above the poverty line.

As for accidental deaths, quite a few tourists drown here in Australia each year, or get eaten by crocodiles or sharks ....or die or are seriously injured in car and bus crashes.

I have never been to the south of Thailand but have spent many excellent vacations in Bangkok and the Chiang Mai area.... (and I'm going there again in 2 days time). I have never yet had a bad experience but i usually avoid areas frequented by western tourists if i can.

The intentention of your post does not meet the reality of living in LOS. Aussie media reports carry a much higher percentage of crimes committed in Oz than the english media in Thailand.

Only higher profile cases are carried by the english media in Thailand with a vast amount swept aside. Many serious crimes involving Thai and foreign nationals are not reported at all and some are even laughed away by the local police and officials.

Like most enjoyable or beautiful things there is also hidden dangers. Don't fall off the cliff while enjoying the scenery.

[mogoso]

I think it is not only the murder case that they lost 30%. Whole Thailand lost many tourists because of there greediness and lack of knowlegde.

Also every year many tourists die in a car or motorbike crash. A few weeks ago a young Italian man died and he was just here for one day. If you rent a motorbike and the rental knows that he or she has no driving license, then they send him/her indirectly also to heaven.

I regret the loss of his life, I feel for his family and friends. But as the rental agency showed a lack of judgement in renting to him, he conversly showed the same lack of judgement in renting something he didn't have the knowledge to handle. This is a different country, different road rules. unknown driving habits of populance, no license, and he deems himself fit to take to the road. The company was at fault, but his was the greater folly.

[merlin1]

I haven't been to Samui since 1992 and even then you could find old Samui hands staying there who thought it was too commercialized. It was OK then with a balance of conveniences and rustic charms, although I preferred Phangan then which has very little. I can't imagine it with a McDonalds though.

As Charles says, a lot of the overdevelopment of the economy and underdevelopment of the Thai heart on Samui is due to the concentration of tourists in one tiny spot. Thais are not good caretakers and have little sense of proportion. To them, more is better even if it means paving paradise to put a parking lot. This will only turn off some westerners who care about that sort of authenticity but will make it more palatable for tacky Europeans (think Malaga, etc) who just want to go places in their own Euro-bubbles. And most Asian tourists will eat it up as well. TAT knows this and that's why very little is done to control it.

I keep wondering when Isaan will receive its share of visitors.

[kogrutter]

Britons avoid Surat Thani after killing

SURAT THANI: -- The brutal rape and murder of 21-year-old Welsh student Katherine Horton on Koh Samui has caused a 30 per cent drop in the number of British tourists visiting Surat Thani province this year, according to the Tourism Authority of Thailand.

The TAT’s southern office director Pramote Sapyen said even though the crime was solved quickly and two fishermen convicted and sentenced to death, it was obvious the incident had affected tourism.

The case was heavily reported in the United Kingdom, and that had frightened tourists, with more than 30 per cent cancelling their trips to Koh Samui and Koh Pha-ngan during the high season.

“This will affect overall tourism for the year as normally 150,000 British tourists visit Thailand a year. A tourist stays on average one week and spends Bt4,000-Bt5,000 a day,” Pramote said.

On that basis, the two islands had lost between Bt100 million and Bt150 million in income.

Initially, the tragic incident had also affected tourists from other countries such as the Netherlands, but the situation had since improved. Asian tourists were still travelling to the region as usual.

Ruangnam Jaikwang, president of Surat Thani’s Tourism Association, said it would take some time for the situation to return to normal. It was important for tourism companies to cooperate with police officers for the safety of tourists, he said.

Surat Thani provincial police chief Maj-General Voravate Vinitnatyanon said police have been planning stricter safety measure to prevent crime and are assigning officers who speak English to warn tourists about going to risky places.

Anan Chusak, president of the province’s fisherman’s association, said the brutal crime had given fishing boat crews a bad image and the association had urged boat owners to be more careful about who they hire.

--The Nation 2006-01-30

I just spent a month in LOS and had occasion to talk with an old friend that is married to a Dutchman. They have a business (more likely had) in Koh Samui. While in Holland, she received a call from a friend. Their business had been mostly cleared out. Computers, printers, the works. I asked about the police and she laughed. Ineffectual at best and larcenous at worst. She was afraid to walk on the beach after the sun went down. Too dangerous for Thai ladies she said. The rape of the British girl was not isolated. She claimed it happened a lot. Just not reported. They are trying to sell what little they have left and try again in Bangkok. Her comment re the reasons was cheap booze, cheap ladies of the night and young, lawless Thais and farangs with no decent policing. Wild West might work for youngsters, but if the Thais are sincerely interested in tourism in Samui and other venues they damned well better get a grip.

[johnwills]

I first went to Samui 6 years ago, it wasn't that special then and that was before McDonalds and all the rest of the crap western food and drink chains started to arrive. 4 years ago my wife's friend who was working as a motorcycle taxi was murdered by some Italian high on Drugs, he bought his way out of it and disappeared back to Italy. We haven't been back to Samui since. Also, I was talking to a german chap a few months ago in Udon Thani, he has had a diving business on Samui for nine years and has finally given up, he says the island has been ruined by all the development. Seems to be the way for all tourist destinations these days.

[sriracha john]

I can almost hear TAT breathing a HUGE sigh of relief... as the six murdered victims mentioned in Post #28 apparently have turned out to be "only" Burmese laborers and not Britons.

Upon hearing the news, TAT let out a collective "PHEW"!!... "We dodged a bullet that time.*(pun intentional)* If they had turned out to be Britons, we might as well closed the island and found another place to exploit. Thank goodness, they were only insignificant Burmese."

Edited January 30, 2006 by sriracha john

[leelou]

I went to KS for the 1st time dec 12 - 27. Stayed at spa beach resort, lamia beech litterally yards away from where Katherine was murdered :-( I was there to detox/ fast. My experience there was amazing, the staff and programme and thais I met there were lovely people. However, I would never ever go back to KS it was terrible. The world I saw outside of that resort was commercial and lacked soul. I had heard it was quite built up and touristy but I was saddened by its lack of soul and authenticity.

The tourist tiger zoo and aqauriam are absoloutly disgusting the conditions there are archaic and cruel. I did not see one police car or police man patrolling anywhere, I saw children holding babies on motorbikes all accidents waiting to happen. It seemed in alot of ways like a lawless society.

Also, I have heard horrific stories about young girls getting raped and their drink spiked with drugs at Haad Rin beech party. Sure, examples of that happen in city's and clubs all over the world, but hearing it happen there.

There has been alot of flood damage and money should be spent on existing infrastrusture, roads, curbs, safety crossings for pedestrians, laws on mopeds, sewage / waste health and safety, police patrols and security.

I did abit of island hopping and I hope to return and go to Chang Mai and up to Vietnam one day, but for now I am very dissapointed in KS.

[sassienie]

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

[charlesfrith]

I can almost hear TAT breathing a HUGE sigh of relief... as the six murdered victims mentioned in Post #28 apparently have turned out to be "only" Burmese laborers and not Britons.

Upon hearing the news, TAT let out a collective "PHEW"!!... "We dodged a bullet that time.*(pun intentional)* If they had turned out to be Britons, we might as well closed the island and found another place to exploit. Thank goodness, they were only insignificant Burmese."

Now this is related but to such a bigger topic that I hope it can kick off a wider discussion. I am sick and offended that there is an equation which goes, 1 American is equal to 3 to 5 Europeans and a European is roughly worth about 40 Chinese and the list goes on. It's time the Global newscasters treated everyone the same. I'll be frank, i feel sorry for anyone who is the victim of an accident but I'll be frank. A miner trapped in a mine in the US is not important. Next time that happens I'll put money that there are 5-10 trapped elsewhere in a lower denomination country.

I really felt so bad when 20 Nepalese were slaughtered in Iraq so long ago and they got a few lines. Until all men are equal in the news then we are not all equal. Is it just me that feels this way. It's obscene. No whites in the Tsunami and it would have been two days news. We should be ashamed of this. It's the sort of racial discrimination that sits under the surface of everything we do.

...sorry for the rough draft.. in no mood when whipping off an angry one....

charles

[charlesfrith]

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

Erm...swift work of genius? How about nothing was done till the tabloids got hold of it, then the local potbellied gunslinging 'what uniform do you wish to wear today' took it more seriously and reviewed the reports that had gone ignored and built up that classic methodology of 'a pattern'.... women raped close to the shore with NO SUSPECTS ON LAND.

Then the Prime Minister orders the apprehension of them. That's called incentivisation to earn the dough that is charged to ordinary businesses just to operate on Samui with absolutely no receipts.

I'd call that shaping up.... read The Observer for a sensitive portrayal of the local Cops performance. The Oldest Newspaper in The World

Tourists are money. It's as simple as that. Again, condolences to the family and friends. It must be awful. I still don't agree with executing them. Two wrongs do not make a right.

cf.

[simcity]

I did go to kow samui twice, as with phuket I did not like the mafia and scavenger there .

Same as phuket I will not return !

PS I am sure many people in Bangkok feel like me, and Phuket did miss to have the presence support after the tsunami..

[Jiu-Jitsu]

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?

I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.

MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.

A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.

I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.

A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.

Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.

It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.

So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

[sriracha john]

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?

I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.

MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.

A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.

I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.

A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.

Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.

It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.

So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

A well done, factual, astute and excellent post, Jiu-Jitsu

[charlesfrith]

I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

c.

In the area that I used to live in England before I came to Thailand permanently, rape and murder was an every day occurrence and I suspect it still is.

The English should be used to out of control crime with the minimum of law and order.

It’s obvious that this case has been well hyped up by the British media.

I can honestly tell you that regarding crime, and providing you don’t mix with the wrong group, Thailand is one of the safest places to holiday or live.

Just take a look at the International crime statistics; there are hundreds of them on the Internet.

What happened to this poor innocent girl is an outrage and tragic beyond words, and please remember that the apprehension of these monsters by the Thai police was a swift work of genius for a diabolical murder that is an extreme rarity here in Thailand.

My deepest sympathy for all concerned..and tourists please dont be put off.

This strikes me as either one of the most naive or disingenuous posts that I have read in a while.

When was the last time, anywhere in the world, were two tourists, British or otherwise, murdered by a POLICEMAN?

I don't need to mention who the prime suspect is in the rpe and murder of Kirsty Jones.

Thank goodness the British media took on the Katherine Horton murder. if they didn't, do you think we would have even heard about the earlier rape of the British girl on Samui and the two Swedes reportedly raped and the girl in Pattaya.

MOST of the time, you WON'T hear about the violence.

When tourists are told that they will have to return time and time again to the police station in order to press charges, many just choose to return home.

A female friend of mine was attacked on Samui a while ago. Only because she had some connections did she get any justice at all and certainly not from the police.

On Samui, it's WHO you know. If you don't know anyone, forget about justice. In fact, expect to pay.

When I had something stolen from the place were I was staying, I went to make a report. Mainly for insurance purposes. The 'investigator' tried to convince me that I had 'lost' it, so that he didn't have to make a report.

I refused to go along with his game and insisted that I wanted a police report.

So off we went to Chaweng to take photos of the scene. He wanted me to sit in the back of pick up, like a common criminal. That wasn't going to happen.

A contact of mine confided in me that the 'high ranking' policeman wanted to 'do something to me'.

Later on, when he found out about 'my credentials' things changed for the better.

It seemed as if the whole of the Samui police force was mobilised that day, with a couple of them supplying me with their mobile telephone number.

It was not so long ago that the UK police changed the way they views crimes like rape and domestic violence.

So how far do you think a girl, foreign or otherwise, would get reporting a rape in Thailand?

That's not to reflect badly on Thailand itself. One just has to realise that tourism is booming in Thailand, bringing 'civilised' Westerners alongside practices which they may consider outdated.

For example, I'm sure you may remember, not too long ago, defences against rape in the UK including; "She asked for it", She was wearing a low cut top, short skirt etc" Basically if a girl was wearing sexually provocative clothing, they were seen to have "led the man on".

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

So, thank God that this sort of thing is finally getting some publicity.

Maybe you have a business out there and are trying to protect your investment, but that doesn't mean that you should turn a blind eye as to what is right and wrong.

There is a LOT that goes on out there that goes unreported and you'd be niave to think otherwise.

A well done, factual, astute and excellent post, Jiu-Jitsu

[Wiggy]

Tourism does not drop by 30% overnight because of one (albeit sad and tragic) incident. Otherwise nobody would go anywhere. The government has slowly been destroying tourism for a year or two now with its "crackdowns". Somebody has added up the arrival numbers, had a shock, and looked for something other than the government to blame.

[Viper]

I lived in Koh Samui for over 1 year. I had a lovely Thai style wooden house in a nice quiet location outside Lamai. After 1 year things just started to get to me, such as the filth, the heavy traffic on the roads, the same idiots you see and have to deal with every day, the ever increasing prices of food etc etc etc etc......

I would like to see like someone else mensioned earlyer a 90-100% fall in tourists, only then will Thai's start to appreciate farang more and learn to respect.

[Uma~~]

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.

When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

I agree completely.

Yes businesses will suffer but the more they do the more effort they will put into sorting out the islands problems. It is so dangerous here, I was talking to an ex policewoman last night who has lived here a while and she told me some of the horrific things that go on but in my opinion the roads and infastructure alone are reason enough to start from scratch and give the island a better image.

[dezeure]

I think it is a good thing. Hope tourist visits will drop by 90%. Sorry for the tourist related businesses but it gives the government some reason to do something about it.

When something is done, they can have a second try to establish a tourist center worth going to.

I second that... Maybe Thai Rak Thai will then realise that wanting to be extreme right and needing money from foreigners as a major income does not go together... Maybe toxin should change his "come, see, pay, and go" motto... the two fisherman probably voted for him too...

But one thing I must say, even though we all complain about it...: I still prefer living in Thailand than anywhere else, even though its not going in the right direction and becoming overruled.

[Polly]

I'm skipping some reality here on the narrative. The following sentence says......

Now consider how the Thais see the foreign girls, running around in bikinis, having a drink or ten, seeming footloose and fancyfree and then imagine how far you think that they would get reporting a case of rape in Thailand.

Well, sex is a very complex subject and I want to make it clear that I adore this country and particularly the women, but I only have a couple of Thai male friends after many years of living here. It's so tough to make genuine friendships, although they are valuable if achieved. I challenge most occidentals to be honest about how many male Thai friends they have and if none why? It's because in the main they are not very warm. That said Thai guys who are cool do keep themselves to themselves.

However for whatever reason(s) this is also the country where I sometimes wonder what short circuit is wired in the cortex for the guys who manage or work on the periphery of the prostitution trade. OK it's a 'money' short circuit but the evidence is on the streets. Thai men are largely unbothered by any exposure to intrusive intimacy, nudity, sexual acts and unrestrained commercialisation of their sisters bodies to foreign men. Money and the culture of using women for recreational purposes in their own environment might be responsible for the absence of deep seated hostility. To make matters worse Thai women who work in the trade loathe them for reasons I don't think it would be appropriate for foreigners to discuss.

By coincidence I clarified this last night when I asked a very good Thai female friend why 30-40% of taxi drivers seem impossible to win over no matter how courteous or patient one is. It had never occured to me that an Occidental with a good command of Thai and knowledge of the routes has immediately just dropped some 50% in value as a gullible fare. Those are her words not mine. I was so ready for jealousy and resentment to be the reason.

So I have to say the obvious. This country is crawling with what I view as the loosest of feet and the freest of fancy women, possibly in the world. It's also largely through choice not circumstance. It's a lifestyle decision one that should be discussed in a more mature context, but again, it's sex and the irrational descends on the subject.

But to suggest that Caucasian women 'set a bad example' is an extraordinarily mono directional view of the world. I can see how the reasoning starts off but c'mon... A grip is needed.

I guess it's a tangential topic to the original post, but it's one I'm itching to find intelligent views on and maybe even learn a few things.

c.

[

I think she did not mean that shethought that the girls behaviour is a bad example, but rather the Thais would think it.

Many, many Thais are completely hypocritical about this part of their culture and turn a blind eye to it.

It has also been suggested that Caucasian women are easy because they give it away.

[Khun Jean]

And what is it with this title of this topic.

Afraid people will find this topic when they use a search engine with the words "koh samui" or "Koh Pha-ngan" in it.

I suggest to change it to:

"Britons Avoid tropical touristic island "Koh Samui" After Killings and Rapes, 30 per cent drop in the number of British tourists"

How many people have heard about "Surat Thani".

This information hiding behind a wrong topic title is also something to worry about.