Visa-Rates For Atm Users

[JimGant]

The bank issued cards have either the Visa or Mastercard logo and use the Visa/Mastercard exchange rates.

....unless it's a pure ATM card, whereby there's no Visa or MC logo. Instead, you'll know which rate you'll get by whether it says "Cirrus" for the MC network, or "Plus" for the Visa network. Pure ATM cards are mainly products of a savings account (vs. checking account) for US banks, since monthly movement is restricted by Fed law, so a debit function, in combo with an ATM function, is a non winner.

I wish my Schwab ATM/Debit card was ATM only, since that's the only function I use it for. If ATM only, if lost or stolen, no damage could be done without the PIN. However, as it is, if lost or stolen, "swipe and sign" could clean out my Schwab account. That' why I keep the account loaded with only enough for my monthly cash needs -- and only carry it when I'm doing my monthly cash pulls. Won't rehash why credit cards are so much easier to deal with than debit cards, when lost or stolen (plus, now in the US, credit cards give twice as much -- at least -- cash back goodies as do debit cards ever since the 'swipe fee' went into effect).

Observation: My USAA Visa card rides the MC Cirrus network -- I guess that's how USAA has overall contracted, and they *do* prioritize their MC option over their Visa option. Nevertheless, logo apparently trumps network -- so my USAA Visa card gets the Visa rate, not MC/Cirrus rate.

[Pib]

The bank issued cards have either the Visa or Mastercard logo and use the Visa/Mastercard exchange rates.

....unless it's a pure ATM card, whereby there's no Visa or MC logo. Instead, you'll know which rate you'll get by whether it says "Cirrus" for the MC network, or "Plus" for the Visa network. Pure ATM cards are mainly products of a savings account (vs. checking account) for US banks, since monthly movement is restricted by Fed law, so a debit function, in combo with an ATM function, is a non winner.

I wish my Schwab ATM/Debit card was ATM only, since that's the only function I use it for. If ATM only, if lost or stolen, no damage could be done without the PIN. However, as it is, if lost or stolen, "swipe and sign" could clean out my Schwab account. That' why I keep the account loaded with only enough for my monthly cash needs -- and only carry it when I'm doing my monthly cash pulls. Won't rehash why credit cards are so much easier to deal with than debit cards, when lost or stolen (plus, now in the US, credit cards give twice as much -- at least -- cash back goodies as do debit cards ever since the 'swipe fee' went into effect).

Observation: My USAA Visa card rides the MC Cirrus network -- I guess that's how USAA has overall contracted, and they *do* prioritize their MC option over their Visa option. Nevertheless, logo apparently trumps network -- so my USAA Visa card gets the Visa rate, not MC/Cirrus rate.

Yeap, totally agree if an ATM card only.

And don't worry if your debit/credit card is lost/stolen and Khun Bad Guy decides to go on a Big C or any other vendor shopping escapade as we all know Thai checkout clerks always compare the signature on the card to your signature on the charge slip and/or your ID/passport. Seriously (and preaching to the choir I know), of the hundreds of times, maybe over a thousand by now, I have used my debit or credit cards to buy things in Thailand only once did a checkout clerk at least appear to compare my signature on the charge slip to the signature on the card; all other times they just swipe the card and either immediately hand the card back to me before I have signed or as soon as I have signed they hand me the card and receipt with no comparison of signatures. And it ain't an English signature thing either as the clerks do the same thing with Thai's and their cards. Yeap, preaching to the choir.

[puck2]

A very interesting point.

I ask myself, why don't the banks offer that you yourself can set limits for withdrawels, payment orders etc. - online? And especially for the debit cards. This would even save the banks a lot of scam money.

[Swiss1960]

Observation: My USAA Visa card rides the MC Cirrus network -- I guess that's how USAA has overall contracted, and they *do* prioritize their MC option over their Visa option. Nevertheless, logo apparently trumps network -- so my USAA Visa card gets the Visa rate, not MC/Cirrus rate.

Very interesting observation. Could you please give me some information on that? I know that in some areas of the world, Diners has got rid of their own network and cooperates with MC for transaction processing, but I never heard that VISA transactions would be handeled through the MC network...

Yeap, totally agree if an ATM card only.

ATM cards are fine for banks when it is about keeping people out of the branches when they need cash only (ATM cheaper than staff), but not interesting when it comes to getting rid of cash, which is the first interest for banks (cash handling is very expensive). That is why Cirrus and Plus cards are not the preferred products for banks to sell, as you can't use them for buying goods.

ask myself, why don't the banks offer that you yourself can set limits for withdrawels, payment orders etc. - online? And especially for the debit cards. This would even save the banks a lot of scam money.

interesting point, but this is a question of

- cost to implement such features and offer them to the customer in a 7/24 environment (we talk about multi-million projects for each single issuing bank)

- usability of handling such rules for the customers (i.e. limits to specific countries, limits on specific merchant categories, limits on amounts) which could result in high numbers of customer service calls

- stopping the customer from doing "spontaneous" shopping, because the limits he did set might stop him from doing purchases.

As long as their is no business case that shows a massive reduction of fraud based on implementing such limiting possibilities, banks will rather invest the money in better fraud prevention solutions.

[Pib]

I think a simple reason banks don't offer internet banking with a lot more features is not only cost driven but so, so many of the customers would have problems understanding the features, mess up the features, being contacting customer service all the time, etc. If everybody was only as smart (and handsome) as me banks would surely expand their online banking features ten-fold.

[puck2]

.......................

ask myself, why don't the banks offer that you yourself can set limits for withdrawels, payment orders etc. - online? And especially for the debit cards. This would even save the banks a lot of scam money.

interesting point, but this is a question of

- cost to implement such features and offer them to the customer in a 7/24 environment (we talk about multi-million projects for each single issuing bank)

- usability of handling such rules for the customers (i.e. limits to specific countries, limits on specific merchant categories, limits on amounts) which could result in high numbers of customer service calls

- stopping the customer from doing "spontaneous" shopping, because the limits he did set might stop him from doing purchases.

As long as their is no business case that shows a massive reduction of fraud based on implementing such limiting possibilities, banks will rather invest the money in better fraud prevention solutions.

I think you underestimate the customers. For example:

As a German Postbank customer with internet banking you are able to restrict some functions - even just to ZERO - generating TAN-numbers by mobile or a TAN-generator. Examples: internet money transfers, transfers to your card accounts, foreign remittances, standing order and card withdrawels, too.

There are more banks offering this safety standard, but not enough.

So I guess the bank service - if required - will be cheaper than the the damage it suffers by cheating and scams.. And it's a motivation to have an account with such a bank.

Of course, you have to adjust the settings before your next action. And after the action you have to change the settings again. It seems to be inconvenient. From my viewpoint it's worthwhile, it gives you the desired safty. This safety is real. The (card) abuse is reduced rigorously.

Mankind changed from barter trade to internet banking. What's the problem to use some new functions?

Edited September 24, 2012 by puck2

[JimGant]

but I never heard that VISA transactions would be handeled through the MC network...

Possibly not. The gal at USAA I queried in passing on this didn't seem overly IT qualified. In any event, the Visa logo gets me the Visa rate -- whether directly or from a handoff from Cirrus -- I dunno.

If it were a Visa ATM/Debit card (it's a Visa credit card), I would think the Visa logo on the front would have the transaction default to the Visa/Plus network when that option is advertised on the ATM machine. However, as "Cirrus" is mentioned on the back of the card, I suspect the card would work in an ATM machine that didn't advertise Visa or Plus, but did advertise Cirrus. The following quote from a credit union ad suggests such:

Features of the Visa Check/ATM Card as an ATM Transaction:

24 Hour access with the Visa Check/ATM Card to any ATM on the following network:

- Cirrus Network

- Plus Network

- Pulse Network

- Visa Network

[JimGant]

As a German Postbank customer with internet banking you are able to restrict some functions - even just to ZERO - generating TAN-numbers by mobile or a TAN-generator

As has been discussed elsewhere on this forum, Bangkok Bank's Be1st ATM/Debit card can be set to 'zero' for POS transactions. Nice feature, if you just want that card for ATM transactions -- without fear of forgery/theft cleaning out your bank account in the swipe/signature "credit" mode.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

That's a nice feature that Jim mentions being able to set your BKK Bank ATM card to zero for POS transactions, meaning it can't be used for swipe and sign transactions AND online purchases.

Unfortunately, AFAIK, you only can change those settings through their automated telephone system. They wouldn't let me do it in-branch, and you can't do it via their online banking set-up... Why... I have no idea...

But you do have to REMEMBER you've set POS to zero. I had done that, and then recently wanted to buy something on EBay where I needed to use a Thai bank card. I tried to use my BKK Bank card, and it got rejected by EBay, even though I had the necessary funds in my account. And then it dawned on me... Months before, I'd set my POS limit to ZERO... So called up BKK Bank, went through the phone system to change my POS limit. Did the EBay transaction. And then called back BKK Bank again to reset my POS limit to ZERO again....

YEESH! It's a complicated world out there. But at least I have the peace of mind of knowing my BKK Bank VISA debit card is safe and secure with POS set to zero.