Thai Govt Pins Hopes On Water-Flow Push Machines, Barriers To Beat The Floods

[Thai at Heart]

Wouldn't it make more sense (if at all) to use the machines to push the water faster down and out, so when the natural flow arrives the water levels are lower and there is more room to avoid the floods?

It will make absolutely no difference at all. The tidal effect of the moon would overwhelm 1mn of these nonsense machines.

[dude007]

Every single paragpraph appears to me a big load of nonsense and scientific gibberish. Plodprasob has apparently succeeded in convincing the latest flood mitigation expert, Shinawatra jr., of his water pushing machines... not to my surprise anyhow.

When will this so-called science minister become mature? Has he ever tested these silly devices in a laboratory? About 80% of the pushed flow is returned in backflow via bottom and river banks and these brilliant Plodprasob water pushing machines are playing with the same water again and again. Absolutely nonsense and sheer playtools...

Very different from pumping, which goes through pipes and where there is NO BACKFLOW!

The drainage capacity of these city-canals, even after spending 150 Mio Baht in [useless] dredging, as I have already told so many times, is not more than 180 - 220 m3/sec, but we need a drainage capacity of at least 1,500 (minimum scenario) to 2,500 m3/sec (maximum scenario). All the rest is sheer nonsense and populist BS. Stop these populist lie-promises that you cannot keep anyhow, and focus on the long term solution instead of spending millions of tax-paying money on useless and expensive measurements which everybody knows will not help anything at all... a drop on a hot plate!!! Please Yingluck, new candid populist expert in water management and flood mitigation in Burberry outfit, listen once more to big brother instead of Plodprasob: Big Brother from Dubai told already so many months ago that the only solution is a serious bypass canal half the size of the Chao Phraya! And for once he is right!!!!

[Buchholz]

time to implement the Water-Flow Push Machines here...

Situation in Sa Kaew deemed 'Severe'

Sa Kaew province appeared to be at the brunt of disaster Thursday as thousands of students struggled through well over 2 metre high flood waters. The Office of the National Water and Flood Management Policy (ONWFMP) announced that the situation was "severe".

Locals in 11 remote border villages in Aranyaprathet district's tambon Takham complained that they had to scrape by without very much to eat or drink as flood-relief finally arrived Thursday.

When the team led by Colonel Prawee Chakrabhand from the 12th Ranger Taskforce of Burapha Force arrived with relief items, the locals were overwhelmed with mixed emotions - some were overjoyed to finally get some help, while others were resentful that they had been left on their own for days.

Floods first hit Sa Kaew on Monday, and Governor Sanit Naksuksri said he had mobilised more than 500 rescue workers, soldiers and policemen to help the affected.

-- The Nation 2012-09-20

[Thai at Heart]

Every single paragpraph appears to me a big load of nonsense and scientific gibberish. Plodprasob has apparently succeeded in convincing the latest flood mitigation expert, Shinawatra jr., of his water pushing machines... not to my surprise anyhow.

When will this so-called science minister become mature? Has he ever tested these silly devices in a laboratory? About 80% of the pushed flow is returned in backflow via bottom and river banks and these brilliant Plodprasob water pushing machines are playing with the same water again and again. Absolutely nonsense and sheer playtools...

Very different from pumping, which goes through pipes and where there is NO BACKFLOW!

The drainage capacity of these city-canals, even after spending 150 Mio Baht in [useless] dredging, as I have already told so many times, is not more than 180 - 220 m3/sec, but we need a drainage capacity of at least 1,500 (minimum scenario) to 2,500 m3/sec (maximum scenario). All the rest is sheer nonsense and populist BS. Stop these populist lie-promises that you cannot keep anyhow, and focus on the long term solution instead of spending millions of tax-paying money on useless and expensive measurements which everybody knows will not help anything at all... a drop on a hot plate!!! Please Yingluck, new candid populist expert in water management and flood mitigation in Burberry outfit, listen once more to big brother instead of Plodprasob: Big Brother from Dubai told already so many months ago that the only solution is a serious bypass canal half the size of the Chao Phraya! And for once he is right!!!!

I look forward to the thaivisa tv channel putting us out,live on national tv.

[philw]

Every single paragpraph appears to me a big load of nonsense and scientific gibberish. Plodprasob has apparently succeeded in convincing the latest flood mitigation expert, Shinawatra jr., of his water pushing machines... not to my surprise anyhow.

When will this so-called science minister become mature? Has he ever tested these silly devices in a laboratory? About 80% of the pushed flow is returned in backflow via bottom and river banks and these brilliant Plodprasob water pushing machines are playing with the same water again and again. Absolutely nonsense and sheer playtools...

Very different from pumping, which goes through pipes and where there is NO BACKFLOW!

The drainage capacity of these city-canals, even after spending 150 Mio Baht in [useless] dredging, as I have already told so many times, is not more than 180 - 220 m3/sec, but we need a drainage capacity of at least 1,500 (minimum scenario) to 2,500 m3/sec (maximum scenario). All the rest is sheer nonsense and populist BS. Stop these populist lie-promises that you cannot keep anyhow, and focus on the long term solution instead of spending millions of tax-paying money on useless and expensive measurements which everybody knows will not help anything at all... a drop on a hot plate!!! Please Yingluck, new candid populist expert in water management and flood mitigation in Burberry outfit, listen once more to big brother instead of Plodprasob: Big Brother from Dubai told already so many months ago that the only solution is a serious bypass canal half the size of the Chao Phraya! And for once he is right!!!!

Think you may be in danger of mixing up the big brothers.

[besth]

Wouldn't it make more sense (if at all) to use the machines to push the water faster down and out, so when the natural flow arrives the water levels are lower and there is more room to avoid the floods?

It will make absolutely no difference at all. The tidal effect of the moon would overwhelm 1mn of these nonsense machines.

Of course. My only braincell didn't think about that. In my defense, I had a feeling that there would be a reason not to do that

Wonder if the many braincells of the cabinet have thought of the piece of plastic/up stream water pushing machines similarity.

[DrTuner]

I'm surprised they haven't found out that dumping gazillion liters of dish washing detergent would change the viscosity. A nice way to clean 'em canals up and a nifty foam party on the top. Never mind the few fish or whatever might be in the sea out there, can't be bothered with the smelly seafood.

[Thai at Heart]

Wouldn't it make more sense (if at all) to use the machines to push the water faster down and out, so when the natural flow arrives the water levels are lower and there is more room to avoid the floods?

It will make absolutely no difference at all. The tidal effect of the moon would overwhelm 1mn of these nonsense machines.

Of course. My only braincell didn't think about that. In my defense, I had a feeling that there would be a reason not to do that

Wonder if the many braincells of the cabinet have thought of the piece of plastic/up stream water pushing machines similarity.

Indeed, turn them around and see if they can stop the canal flowing downhill?

[MaxYakov]

Can anybody, who has any experience of flood prevention, explain the merits of these machines?

Do they work? Are we all just being too negative about this machine?

On first sight it is a bit laughable, I just wish I could have some confidence.

I can't afford another 1 month holiday by the seaside, no matter how lovely it was to spend the time with my wife and child

They would have more effect on the water through evaporation due to warming the water than moving it anywhere useful!!!

Water has a low viscosity in its pure form but contaminants such as silt can change elements of it. Liquid inertia or Yield Point and plastic viscosity will be affected.

Water likes to flow in a straight line known as laminar flow. When it flows fast it becomes turbulent with eddying currents that are not as efficient. This occurs at a Reynolds number of 2100 - a factor of viscosity, speed of flow and flow area.

Water close to the sides of the canals will flow more slowly than at the centre where the friction between the flows of water currents is at its lowest.

So, in short, creating turbulence in the middle of waterways with boat engines will slow the flow down

The article's title probably descriptive of the effort - Thai Govt Pins Hopes ... How scientific is the notion of 'hope', anyway? I can visualize Plodprasob knitting his brow and saying: Hope this helps.

Edited September 20, 2012 by MaxYakov

[besth]

Wouldn't it make more sense (if at all) to use the machines to push the water faster down and out, so when the natural flow arrives the water levels are lower and there is more room to avoid the floods?

It will make absolutely no difference at all. The tidal effect of the moon would overwhelm 1mn of these nonsense machines.

Of course. My only braincell didn't think about that. In my defense, I had a feeling that there would be a reason not to do that

Wonder if the many braincells of the cabinet have thought of the piece of plastic/up stream water pushing machines similarity.

Indeed, turn them around and see if they can stop the canal flowing downhill?

For some reason that was more obvious, but of course the other way around it would be just as futile of an effort.

Let's hope the rains fall in the right places so that we get water for the rest of the year and no floods.

[Moruya]

Can anybody, who has any experience of flood prevention, explain the merits of these machines?

Do they work? Are we all just being too negative about this machine?

On first sight it is a bit laughable, I just wish I could have some confidence.

I can't afford another 1 month holiday by the seaside, no matter how lovely it was to spend the time with my wife and child

They would have more effect on the water through evaporation due to warming the water than moving it anywhere useful!!!

Water has a low viscosity in its pure form but contaminants such as silt can change elements of it. Liquid inertia or Yield Point and plastic viscosity will be affected.

Water likes to flow in a straight line known as laminar flow. When it flows fast it becomes turbulent with eddying currents that are not as efficient. This occurs at a Reynolds number of 2100 - a factor of viscosity, speed of flow and flow area.

Water close to the sides of the canals will flow more slowly than at the centre where the friction between the flows of water currents is at its lowest.

So, in short, creating turbulence in the middle of waterways with boat engines will slow the flow down

So, as these machines are moored on the banks, they may increase the flow?

Unfortunately no.the water will be flowing in a laminar manner and this will be interrupted.

[gk10002000]

Once the overall water table level rises above the ground level, no machines can push the water anywhere. unless one is willing to build solid dykes and levies around the entire city or river bank, and then pump out water, Bangkok is going to get wet.

[canuckamuck]

They should be moving water out of the gulf so that when the floods come there will be a place for the water to go.

Can I have the contract to build 1 million ocean pushing machines?

[ignis]

Sorry I'm getting to old to understand........... last year they used pumps to pump the water to nowhere so we all got flooded.......... So these new fanged machines are going to push the water, fine I understand, BUT to where ?

My understanding is the sea in the Bay of Thailand is already to high + Bangkok is sinking, the sea is claiming more and more land moving towards Bangkok in the south, so all this extra water coming from the north is going to be pushed this year...OK but to where?

How I see it.......... Or is it that places that have no floods the water will be pushed that way ? is places that were under 2 meters of water last year, now will only have 1/2 that as the whole of Thailand will be under a little water? eg: from further up north the water will be pushed East so Pattaya get it all this year, Rayong the year after, the following year... pushed out of Thailand... Sorry for being thick but pump it or push it the water must go somewhere, would just like to know where?

Edited September 21, 2012 by ignis

[noob7]

OK, seen the picture

Does anyone have a video of how they work?

A bit off topic, does anyone have a second hand boat for sale?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2aWoOOqAVo

[noob7]

Is this another white lie? What happened to the 350 billion baht prevention budget that was so urgent it had to be passed as an emergency degree without going through Parliament?

It went the same way as the other 120 Billion Baht for flood prevention.

.

Which way was that then ??

You know, there is a kind of a open government debt to a former very rich person. With interest and some accounting, it will have balanced it, now.

[noob7]

Sorry I'm getting to old to understand........... last year they used pumps to pump the water to nowhere so we all got flooded.......... So these new fanged machines are going to push the water, fine I understand, BUT to where ?

My understanding is the sea in the Bay of Thailand is already to high + Bangkok is sinking, the sea is claiming more and more land moving towards Bangkok in the south, so all this extra water coming from the north is going to be pushed this year...OK but to where?

How I see it.......... Or is it that places that have no floods the water will be pushed that way ? is places that were under 2 meters of water last year, now will only have 1/2 that as the whole of Thailand will be under a little water? eg: from further up north the water will be pushed East so Pattaya get it all this year, Rayong the year after, the following year... pushed out of Thailand... Sorry for being thick but pump it or push it the water must go somewhere, would just like to know where?

If they would use that kind of pumps, other countries use for their pumped storage hydro power stations, they could really 'speed' up the flow of the water. Would only need the one or the other station in the north of Bangkok, plus a decent pipeline to the sea. Can be laid in the Bangkok river(s).

And this 'amount' of water is not rising the sea level. It's only the need, to 'push' (pump) it into the sea, doesn't matter of the tide tide gauge.

But these pumps are doing 100-200.000l/s with a altitude difference of 100 or more meters. So no ploblem in sight, I think.

Only ploblem, I see: The flow of the money is not easily to push into the right pockets, like it is/was, this time.

[moonray]

Sorry I'm getting to old to understand........... last year they used pumps to pump the water to nowhere so we all got flooded.......... So these new fanged machines are going to push the water, fine I understand, BUT to where ?

My understanding is the sea in the Bay of Thailand is already to high + Bangkok is sinking, the sea is claiming more and more land moving towards Bangkok in the south, so all this extra water coming from the north is going to be pushed this year...OK but to where?

How I see it.......... Or is it that places that have no floods the water will be pushed that way ? is places that were under 2 meters of water last year, now will only have 1/2 that as the whole of Thailand will be under a little water? eg: from further up north the water will be pushed East so Pattaya get it all this year, Rayong the year after, the following year... pushed out of Thailand... Sorry for being thick but pump it or push it the water must go somewhere, would just like to know where?

If they would use that kind of pumps, other countries use for their pumped storage hydro power stations, they could really 'speed' up the flow of the water. Would only need the one or the other station in the north of Bangkok, plus a decent pipeline to the sea. Can be laid in the Bangkok river(s).

And this 'amount' of water is not rising the sea level. It's only the need, to 'push' (pump) it into the sea, doesn't matter of the tide tide gauge.

But these pumps are doing 100-200.000l/s with a altitude difference of 100 or more meters. So no ploblem in sight, I think.

Only ploblem, I see: The flow of the money is not easily to push into the right pockets, like it is/was, this time.

The decent pipeline to the sea already exists - they have them:huge underground tunnels!

they did not say however - what is their location or about their inlets and outlets.

Reading the article in N...,I understand,that they want to use pumps to direct water to underground tunnels.

In US N.Orleans they use similar,huge instalation.

[hellodolly]

Picked up this little bit of information from a expat news letter.

A shortlist of seven plans has emerged from the initial 34 bids submitted for the government’s Bt350-billion flood prevention projects. The seven short-listed bidders will submit draft plans with cost and construction details by November 23, with the final selection to be announced on January 31, 2013.

The flood season will be over before they pick a company to lesson it's impact. What a joke. I wonder how much of the money the company gets will they be allowed to keep.

[metisdead]

A post containing a link to Bangkok Post has been removed as per forum rules as well as the replies to that post.

[Thai at Heart]

Picked up this little bit of information from a expat news letter.

A shortlist of seven plans has emerged from the initial 34 bids submitted for the government’s Bt350-billion flood prevention projects. The seven short-listed bidders will submit draft plans with cost and construction details by November 23, with the final selection to be announced on January 31, 2013.

The flood season will be over before they pick a company to lesson it's impact. What a joke. I wonder how much of the money the company gets will they be allowed to keep.

Shouldn't they be putting out tenders for projects that have already been settled upon? Or are the companies themselves come up with the projects? How on earth does that become a unified solution? Reading the list that I saw, they are actually large consortiums of companies rolled into "holding" firms, so it is going to be an absolute turkey shoot to actually achieve the right result.

[Neilly]

I hear there’s going to quite a few spare jet skis in Pattaya now that they are going to shut down all the scammers …bring them Bangkok and use them as water-pushing machines…two birds with one stone

[exeter]

Pins its hopes. says it all really! I see nothing much different than last year, same old plans, same old plans not working, try something different maybe? Ask for advice from outside perhaps?

[moonray]

try something different maybe? Ask for advice from outside perhaps?

They do not need "outside"!They have us!hundreds of Thai Visa experts available here,free of charge,writing opinions even if nobody had asked ..and,I am sorry - nobody competent cares to read it.

[Thai at Heart]

try something different maybe? Ask for advice from outside perhaps?

They do not need "outside"!They have us!hundreds of Thai Visa experts available here,free of charge,writing opinions even if nobody had asked ..and,I am sorry - nobody competent cares to read it.

High school physics shows u cant push water.

[moonray]

try something different maybe? Ask for advice from outside perhaps?

They do not need "outside"!They have us!hundreds of Thai Visa experts available here,free of charge,writing opinions even if nobody had asked ..and,I am sorry - nobody competent cares to read it.

High school physics shows u cant push water.

Grammar school is enough to solve this problem.

You was here a year ago? - was it worth of your time?they did not read anything here and they are not reading now.

[DrTuner]

High school physics shows u cant push water.

Yes you can. I am basing my claim on empirical evidency I gathered when I was about 5y old playing with sand and water. The trick is to close the return path so it can't flow back.

So all the Thais need to do is push the mountains up north a couple of thousand km's south. I'm only guessing, but I'll bet their machines don't have enough grunt to move the mountains.

Or they could replant the forests. A little project, just a couple of centuries or so.

[Thai at Heart]

try something different maybe? Ask for advice from outside perhaps?

They do not need "outside"!They have us!hundreds of Thai Visa experts available here,free of charge,writing opinions even if nobody had asked ..and,I am sorry - nobody competent cares to read it.

High school physics shows u cant push water.

Grammar school is enough to solve this problem.

You was here a year ago? - was it worth of your time?they did not read anything here and they are not reading now.

The issue is pinning hopes on pushing water machines. That doesnt work for absolute certainty. The rest iz a little beyond myhigh school physics, so i defer to an expert in hydrology. I dont notice too many in this particular government, and the fact they believe that a water pushing machine can work is hardly reassuring.

I mean, careful, they might switch them on super fast and cause a drought. Do i personally care if they listen? Nope. Not a cent, but for all those eho have and will suffer at this incompetencr, my heart bleeds.

there are at least 10,000 people more qualified than these people to run this project, and do you honestly believe any university physics student in thailand thinks these machines work? They are shaking their heads silently in the corner because they cant be bothered to argue with the system.

Edited September 21, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[Moruya]

Does anyone here think that if you tied up 1,000 boats 50 metres out, parallel to Jomtien beach facing the sea and cranked them all up to full throttle that the sea would come an extra centimetre up the beach?

[Soutpeel]

Does anyone here think that if you tied up 1,000 boats 50 metres out, parallel to Jomtien beach facing the sea and cranked them all up to full throttle that the sea would come an extra centimetre up the beach?

I am pretty sure the esteemed Science minister would say yes this is exactly what would happen