Thai Resident Application - Successful!

[samran]

"so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?"

1.2 million was taxes I paid. 100k various expenses. 200k government fees. I included taxes because normally you can pay a lot less tax if you just want to have a work permit. If you want to apply in a business category you will need to pay higher taxes and that will increase the total cost. Im my case it took years. If the immigration speeds things up it would be much cheaper but my wait was epic. Years and years of extensions but persevered and in the end successful.

so are you saying in the 3 years before you applied you bumped your tax payments by 1.2m over and above what you'd normally pay so you'd meet the income criteria?

I don't quite follow why you'd pay more taxes than needed in the years following your application...

I paid taxes for 10 years. 3 years before I applied and 7 years after and I continue to pay them at this rate.

cheers, thanks for that.

[consat]

Hi,

I too have just received my PR early this month, and am in the process of getting my Blue House register Book. It seems that all of a sudden they are processing the huge backlog. I applied in early 2008, so it took about 4.5 years to get.

Does any one know what is required (documentation etc) to apply for Thai Citizenship ? Would greatly appreciate this information.

Congratulations to all the other lucky PR receipients.

[Mario2008]

Start reading here: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Story-Thai-Citizenship-Applicatio-t121353.html

and if married to a Thai: http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/Thai-Citizenship-t29423.html&view=findpost&p=301032

It should not be more difficult then getting PR.

[sas_cars]

Hi,

I too have just received my PR early this month, and am in the process of getting my Blue House register Book. It seems that all of a sudden they are processing the huge backlog. I applied in early 2008, so it took about 4.5 years to get.

Does any one know what is required (documentation etc) to apply for Thai Citizenship ? Would greatly appreciate this information.

Congratulations to all the other lucky PR receipients.

Congrats. So you are of 2007 batch then, must have applied December 2007, since you couldn't apply early 2008

[Spoonman]

"so that was 1.3million in lawyer fees? The remaining 200K or so was offical fees?"

1.2 million was taxes I paid. 100k various expenses. 200k government fees. I included taxes because normally you can pay a lot less tax if you just want to have a work permit. If you want to apply in a business category you will need to pay higher taxes and that will increase the total cost. Im my case it took years. If the immigration speeds things up it would be much cheaper but my wait was epic. Years and years of extensions but persevered and in the end successful.

so are you saying in the 3 years before you applied you bumped your tax payments by 1.2m over and above what you'd normally pay so you'd meet the income criteria?

I don't quite follow why you'd pay more taxes than needed in the years following your application...

I paid taxes for 10 years. 3 years before I applied and 7 years after and I continue to pay them at this rate.

I have actually been thinking of doing this but why are you required to pay more taxes for business category PR, I actually pay plenty (over 1/2 a million baht per year) but am curious as to the reasoning behind it.

[jbrain]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Yes, the total cost was around 1.5 million.

Jbrain, you have your retirement visa extension now but times are changing, we do not know what the future will bring, what will be retirement visa requirements in a few years time. It is 50 years old now but perhaps next year it will be changed to 55 or even 60-65. The amount of money you need to have may change also, you may need regular income etc. In any case you are still a guest here. Remember that there are more and more older people who retire and would like to live in Thailand. In time some of them might be considered a burden here. You never know. People are welcome to live and plan their life as they see fit.

I love Thailand and I have long term plan to live here so I do not like surprises. I got my PR and I can justify to myself the cost for what I got and I am happy and proud to have it now.

Indeed things can change regarding retirement extension requirements, but I should say that the same applies to holders of a permanent residence permit.

At the end you are still classified as a foreigner, you still need workpermit,have to ask permission to leave the country, and knowing the labile mind of the Thais they can change everything regarding in a wimp.

After all, when they change the retirement requirements, I adjust or move on to another country and take my 800.000 Baht with me,something that not can be said about the money you handed over to them.

Then, when I read NewlymintedThai post about the advantages, I don't see many advantages that are really worth 1.5 Million to me, other then when you have the intention to become a Thai citizen of course.

[GarryP]

I do not understand why you are factoring in your taxes as a cost for PR. If you are employed you have to pay taxes anyway regardless whether you are applying for PR or not. I realize that there is a minimum amount over 3 years to meet minimum requirements but that is not a fee. Are you inferring you would have dodged your taxes if you had not gone for PR. I hope not. You paid approximately Baht 300k, and considering that you used a law firm that is not unreasonable.

I would ask the mods to edit your post in which you mention the facilitation payment.

And, congratulations, a long wait but well worth it for you.

[NewlyMintedThai]

There used to be other advantages to permanent residence. For instance, I received a driving licence for cars and motorbikes that was valid for life, not one or five years. Unfortunately that was one of the benefits that was dropped around the time the fees went up. Thankfully, it was not retroactive so I still have my "life" driving licence.

I was also told I could buy a gun although I had no wish to. The best thing is that you never need to visit Immigration ever again unless you want to leave the country and then it's a brief, hassle-free trip to get an endorsement and re-entry visa. Renewing a police book every five years is a simple formality that costs 800 baht and takes very little time. You don't even have to do it yourself.

So if I understand it correctly, it can be translated as a very expensive 5 year visa,which costed McWalen about 1.5 Million alltogether and had to jump through a lot of hoops.

Let me have my yearly retirement extension at 1900 Baht, and I don't care to go say hello at immigration every 90 days.

Yes, the total cost was around 1.5 million.

Jbrain, you have your retirement visa extension now but times are changing, we do not know what the future will bring, what will be retirement visa requirements in a few years time. It is 50 years old now but perhaps next year it will be changed to 55 or even 60-65. The amount of money you need to have may change also, you may need regular income etc. In any case you are still a guest here. Remember that there are more and more older people who retire and would like to live in Thailand. In time some of them might be considered a burden here. You never know. People are welcome to live and plan their life as they see fit.

I love Thailand and I have long term plan to live here so I do not like surprises. I got my PR and I can justify to myself the cost for what I got and I am happy and proud to have it now.

Indeed things can change regarding retirement extension requirements, but I should say that the same applies to holders of a permanent residence permit.

At the end you are still classified as a foreigner, you still need workpermit,have to ask permission to leave the country, and knowing the labile mind of the Thais they can change everything regarding in a wimp.

After all, when they change the retirement requirements, I adjust or move on to another country and take my 800.000 Baht with me,something that not can be said about the money you handed over to them.

Then, when I read NewlymintedThai post about the advantages, I don't see many advantages that are really worth 1.5 Million to me, other then when you have the intention to become a Thai citizen of course.

It was only 50K when I got mine.

The tax thing is senseless...I would have been paying the same amount of tax had I applied or not. Don't get that bit at all.

[Dork]

I do not understand why you are factoring in your taxes as a cost for PR. If you are employed you have to pay taxes anyway regardless whether you are applying for PR or not. I realize that there is a minimum amount over 3 years to meet minimum requirements but that is not a fee. Are you inferring you would have dodged your taxes if you had not gone for PR. I hope not. You paid approximately Baht 300k, and considering that you used a law firm that is not unreasonable.

I would ask the mods to edit your post in which you mention the facilitation payment.

And, congratulations, a long wait but well worth it for you.

While I agree that it isn't valid to claim that all income tax paid over a 10 year period is a direct cost of PR, I understand what the op is saying. If you are a business owner then you may pay yourself a salary that is just enough to survive or meet the requirements for a WP. In order to be eligible to apply for PR, you may have to increase your salary and therefore pay additional income tax. That could be considered an extra cost.

Regarding the "facilitation payment", to be fair to the op he said "plus some money as a token of appreciation" which is quite different.

[jbrain]

It was only 50K when I got mine.

The tax thing is senseless...I would have been paying the same amount of tax had I applied or not. Don't get that bit at all.

It isn't senseless,I am retired so not working hence not paying taxes also.

If I wanted to apply for a permanent residence, I would have to find a job or open a business, as I am required to pay a certain amount of taxes to comply with the application.

[p_brownstone]

I do not understand why you are factoring in your taxes as a cost for PR. If you are employed you have to pay taxes anyway regardless whether you are applying for PR or not. I realize that there is a minimum amount over 3 years to meet minimum requirements but that is not a fee. Are you inferring you would have dodged your taxes if you had not gone for PR. I hope not. You paid approximately Baht 300k, and considering that you used a law firm that is not unreasonable.

I would ask the mods to edit your post in which you mention the facilitation payment.

And, congratulations, a long wait but well worth it for you.

The OP has indicated that he deliberately overpaid Income Tax to ensure his contributions were not a problem in the "points" calculation which decides whether an applicant receives PR or not.

So: :

1) You are maligning the OP.

2) The additional Income Tax payments can reasonably be included in the overall Cost of his PR.

Patrick

[NewlyMintedThai]

It was only 50K when I got mine.

The tax thing is senseless...I would have been paying the same amount of tax had I applied or not. Don't get that bit at all.

It isn't senseless,I am retired so not working hence not paying taxes also.

If I wanted to apply for a permanent residence, I would have to find a job or open a business, as I am required to pay a certain amount of taxes to comply with the application.

In that case, I'd forget about it and live your retirement happily under a retirement visa.

Most people contemplating PR are working stiffs well short of retirement age.

[samran]

I do not understand why you are factoring in your taxes as a cost for PR. If you are employed you have to pay taxes anyway regardless whether you are applying for PR or not. I realize that there is a minimum amount over 3 years to meet minimum requirements but that is not a fee. Are you inferring you would have dodged your taxes if you had not gone for PR. I hope not. You paid approximately Baht 300k, and considering that you used a law firm that is not unreasonable.

I would ask the mods to edit your post in which you mention the facilitation payment.

And, congratulations, a long wait but well worth it for you.

The OP has indicated that he deliberately overpaid Income Tax to ensure his contributions were not a problem in the "points" calculation which decides whether an applicant receives PR or not.

So: :

1) You are maligning the OP.

2) The additional Income Tax payments can reasonably be included in the overall Cost of his PR.

Patrick

That was kind of my take - as I run my own business you have considerable (totally legal) latitude on how and when you are paid - and how dividends, business expenses etc are structured.

[watcharacters]

Ok well thanks for the explanation. I thought that what you have just received was "Thai Citizenship" not just residence. Where you can vote, collect the pensions etc but this is new news for me. This took 6 years and now you also need to apply for citizenship?

I am confused however congrats on your status (I think.)

PS: Can someone then explain what the difference is in Citizenship and this Permanent residence?

Easy, with permanent residency you do not need a visa of any kind anymore, you come and go as you please.

Only once every 5 years have to check in at the police department.

Not many more advantages, still need a workpermit if you want to work etc. Still cannot own land...

Citizenship is one step up from that. You become a Thai citizen and will get every right/duty any other Thai citizen has (some with a delay, you only get voting rights after 5 years).

No restricted occupations (can become a tuk tuk driver if you so please), can own land, companies and so forth without any of the restrictions foreigners have. For all legal means and purposes you are the same as any other Thai national...

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

Don't forget that you still need to do the annual pilgrimage to the immigration office to get a reentry permit. A multiple reentry will set you back 5k.

Did the cost go up?

I thought it was less than ฿4K

[Spoonman]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

[NewlyMintedThai]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

They are talking about taking a higher salary, thus paying more taxes. Not paying above what is owed.

[Payboy]

Ok well thanks for the explanation. I thought that what you have just received was "Thai Citizenship" not just residence. Where you can vote, collect the pensions etc but this is new news for me. This took 6 years and now you also need to apply for citizenship?

I am confused however congrats on your status (I think.)

PS: Can someone then explain what the difference is in Citizenship and this Permanent residence?

Easy, with permanent residency you do not need a visa of any kind anymore, you come and go as you please.

Only once every 5 years have to check in at the police department.

Not many more advantages, still need a workpermit if you want to work etc. Still cannot own land...

Citizenship is one step up from that. You become a Thai citizen and will get every right/duty any other Thai citizen has (some with a delay, you only get voting rights after 5 years).

No restricted occupations (can become a tuk tuk driver if you so please), can own land, companies and so forth without any of the restrictions foreigners have. For all legal means and purposes you are the same as any other Thai national...

Sent from my GT-I9001 using Thaivisa Connect App

Don't forget that you still need to do the annual pilgrimage to the immigration office to get a reentry permit. A multiple reentry will set you back 5k.

Did the cost go up?

I thought it was less than ฿4K

Still is 3800. Plus-plus if you don't want to spend 4 hours and collect in the afternoon.

[Spoonman]

With these additional tax payments made, what happened with the tax return each year as they would have given back any extra that paid above and beyond the proper calculation, surely this would have negated the whole idea of paying the extra in the first place.

They are talking about taking a higher salary, thus paying more taxes. Not paying above what is owed.

So the burden of additional tax cannot be directly be claimed as a PR expense then, but its only 10,000b per month which is hardly a high paying job and the additional income from the "forced" higher salary would have been put to good use. I wonder if the salary has gone back down now that the PR has been obtained.

[Morakot]

On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process.

You made a payment to a public official? Not sure I'd advertise that fact here.

For the record: such payments are NOT legal and NOT required.

True, it's not required. But you can have your picture taken with two officials, if you opt for such a payment. Although with this amount of appreciation money I would have expected at least the chief of the division to be in the photo...

[jbrain]

On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process.

You made a payment to a public official? Not sure I'd advertise that fact here.

For the record: such payments are NOT legal and NOT required.

True, it's not required. But you can have your picture taken with two officials, if you opt for such a payment. Although with this amount of appreciation money I would have expected at least the chief of the division to be in the photo...

He was too busy counting the appreciation money.

[samran]

On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process.

You made a payment to a public official? Not sure I'd advertise that fact here.

For the record: such payments are NOT legal and NOT required.

True, it's not required. But you can have your picture taken with two officials, if you opt for such a payment. Although with this amount of appreciation money I would have expected at least the chief of the division to be in the photo...

hey, he got the immigration officals doing Charlies Angels poses.

Not bad value for money all considered.

[jayboy]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

My experience at the airport is that you can use the Thai passport holders channel if you have PR, but it's a good idea to have your PR book visible in your hand so that you don't get kicked out of the queue by an airport official. Other foreigners will see you in the queue and stand behind you, only to get kicked out again.

I was wondering Camerata what the position is now that most Thais have their passports machine read ? Does this mean holders of PR have to join the foreigners queue (if so chiz chiz as the immortal Molesworth would say).

Have now received PR with latest batch - and proudly hold all the docs.Incredible plain sailing once dam was opened.

[samran]

Are you married? When I applied in 2004 I was told that you got the reduced fee of 100,000 baht if you have a Thai spouse, even if you are applying in the Business category. I didn't pay any money as a token of appreciation, though.

My experience at the airport is that you can use the Thai passport holders channel if you have PR, but it's a good idea to have your PR book visible in your hand so that you don't get kicked out of the queue by an airport official. Other foreigners will see you in the queue and stand behind you, only to get kicked out again.

I was wondering Camerata what the position is now that most Thais have their passports machine read ? Does this mean holders of PR have to join the foreigners queue (if so chiz chiz as the immortal Molesworth would say).

Have now received PR with latest batch - and proudly hold all the docs.Incredible plain sailing once dam was opened.

Congrats Jayboy. Well deserved.

As for the queue. There is still a manual desk for Thai passport holders on the way in and out.

Sometimes the passport won't read, so you get moved to the manual desk.

Also, children under 7 and under 120cm need to use the manual desk, which my daughter had to back in July. My wife, a NZ passport holder, still can use the Thai passport desk when travelling with me or my daughter.

So I'm guessing PR's will still be able to use the Thai passport holders channel as per normal.

[Dork]

I'm curious Lop,

Did you by chance have some sort of visa extension back in 1969? The reason I ask is from reading Arkady's history of Thai immigration laws, any extension of visas then was effectively PR.

From memory, PR as we know it wasn't introduced till the mid to late 70's.

I stand to be corrected on that though.

Do you have a Link for Arkadys' Post Samran - I'd be interested to read it?

In my case I arrived on a Non Immigrant Visa on 17 November, 1971, I am hazy about the actual process but I seem to recall that I was told my Company automatically applied for my PR and at that time there was a limit of 200 applicants per Nationality - at least for Brits but I believe this number varied according to Nationality.

Whatever the system was at that time I received my Alien Registration Book (ใบสำคัญประจำคนต่างด้าว) dated 17 February, 1972 (exactly 3 months later so maybe it was automatically issued by Immigration on the date of Visa extension as you mention and had nothing to do with my Companys' application).

I don't recall when my Certificate of Residence (ใบสำคัญถิ่นที่อยู่) was issued since I do not have the original - this document is in its 4 or 5th incarnation since it is stamped with the Re-entry Visa and Endorsement and Immigration stamps whenever I leave / re-enter the Country so it fills up quite quickly.

Slightly off-topic but another advantage in "the old days" was that I received a lifetime Work Permit too, not only does it not need renewal but it is transferrable between Companies.

Patrick

Sorry Patrick, I'm unable to recall exactly where I saw it. As you know, there are a few of us who follow this particular subject matter, so it is simply I recall Arkady talking about at some point. Suspect it is there in Camerata's guide to PR somewhere. In any case, I rather suspect he'll be along shortly to elaborate/correct me!

This doesn't exactly answer the question and it is from 1953. It will make you smile though.

[Morakot]

This doesn't exactly answer the question and it is from 1953. It will make you smile though.

Could we have a reference for this impressive artefact!

[Dork]

This doesn't exactly answer the question and it is from 1953. It will make you smile though.

Could we have a reference for this impressive artefact!

Just extracted it from an old email attachment. I'll do some searching to see if I can locate the source.

[NewlyMintedThai]

Ah, the good old days. Just goes to show that things rarely get easier or cheaper...so do it as soon as you can.

[sas_cars]

On the day of receiving residency I also had to pay 191,400 Baht in government fee plus some money as a token of appreciation. It was a long process.

You made a payment to a public official? Not sure I'd advertise that fact here.

For the record: such payments are NOT legal and NOT required.

True, it's not required. But you can have your picture taken with two officials, if you opt for such a payment. Although with this amount of appreciation money I would have expected at least the chief of the division to be in the photo...

hey, he got the immigration officals doing Charlies Angels poses.

Not bad value for money all considered.

Big LOL Samran.

[camerata]

This doesn't exactly answer the question and it is from 1953. It will make you smile though.

A bargain at only 1,000 ticals!

[camerata]

I was wondering Camerata what the position is now that most Thais have their passports machine read ? Does this mean holders of PR have to join the foreigners queue (if so chiz chiz as the immortal Molesworth would say).

Have now received PR with latest batch - and proudly hold all the docs.Incredible plain sailing once dam was opened.

Congrats. As Samran said, I guess we can still use the manual desk. However, it seems like yet another "advantage" of PR has been somewhat diminished. Since the fee was increased from 50K to 200K, I think they should think of something else to give us - like a lifetime work permit.