American Suspected Of Conducting Lewd Acts With 13 Year Old Boy In Central Pattaya

[ozziebloke]

No, he is NOT sticking up for a pedophile. Whose using the family brain cell today? What he is quite rightly saying is that, the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets, but that this is just a small part of a big problem that needs addressing. Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place? If you eradicate the problem, then these sick people will go elsewhere for their kicks. Take away the dustbin, and you won't attract flies. Get it?

The kid agreed to the encounter and most likely got paid. He might have even solicited. Why is he not in trouble with the law?

Kid prostitutes exist all over the world all the time.

Kids also get raped and molested all over the world all the time.

Not saying these facts should be grounds for allowing it to continue, but

I think if you have a strong knee-jerk reaction to this story, it probably says a lot more about you than Mr. Shapiro.

By the way, today...

a very nice old lady died a violent death by the hands of a "bad" person

a very cute dog was brutal killed and eaten by a family

an adorable 14 y.o. virgin girl was deflowered because the rapist thought it would cure his AIDS

but these stories weren't covered in the news

There were some "good" "happy" things that happened in the world today, but they didn't show up in the news either.

Nor would it, I suspect, get the TVers all worked up and judgmental in the forums.

P.S. I should know better not to scroll down to read the comments when I want to read the news story as that sometimes gets me worked up too.

WHAT??? You're sticking up for a PEDOPHILE ? JESUS CHRIST!

Isn't that is what is happenning by catching and arresting this peice of slime????

[ozziebloke]

@tolley

No not an apologist at all.

Just very cynical about how the Thai authorities act. As I said the Thais couldnt give a toss about the underage sex. For them it is all about the money.

I hate some say this without any evidence for their statements! I have seen many reports of convictions about Pedophile rings and individuals being caught and prosecuted and jailed because the authorities have been working hard at trying to break the back of this such a disgusting thing. Just google it and you will see! Dont just posts comments without due investigation of the facts

[ableguy]

those old guys with their pensions..

and thirteen year old hookers, only in Pattaya

[sausageandmash]

OK, agreed. Trace the boys back to the pimps and give the pimps the same sentence as the pedophiles. I'd go along with that.

No, he is NOT sticking up for a pedophile. Whose using the family brain cell today? What he is quite rightly saying is that, the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets, but that this is just a small part of a big problem that needs addressing. Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place? If you eradicate the problem, then these sick people will go elsewhere for their kicks. Take away the dustbin, and you won't attract flies. Get it?

You're kind of half right...... "the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets" agreed, and he should know better, although some would say his problem might be more deep rooted - medical / mental.

But..... " Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place?" Sometimes these boys (or young girls) have not much choice, they don't know any better or any other way of life, they are forced into this way of life by asshol_e pimps who beat them into submission, often with an added addiction to drugs which they need to feed, again quite often forced on them by the same asshol_e pimps.

So whilst the boys (or girls) are part of the problem, it is more than likely that their asshol_e pimps/handlers/minders or whatever you want to call them, would be the root cause and these are the ones that need to be found and dealt with, which would fit well with your dustbin and flies terminology.

[sausageandmash]

Anyone seen this?

[jvs]

I dont really think the man became what he is after he came to Thailand,he was a pedophile all of his life most likely.He probably has done things like this in the past but maybe never was caught.If he was ever convicted for a crime like this he should imho never been allowed to have a passport in the first place.

If countries would stop issuing passports to convicted criminals countries like Thailand would be a lot better of.

[Dap]

It is already one of the requirements. Not generally required, but still, on the books for the retirement visa.

Since when was it not required?

I don't know about anyone else, but when I applied for my retirement visa several years ago while residing in Thailand, (although it was in fact a stated requirement), I was not required to produce the police record and received my retirement visa without it. I hope that answers your question and do I get some kind of award for incredibly lengthy run-on sentence?

[geriatrickid]

I know in Aus, NZ UK and probably the rest of Europe, you can be charged when you get home with any activity relating to the sex industries - I'm quite sure it's not just restricted to children. I remember reading a while ago the number of Aussies who are now in jail for what they did on their holidays (mainly Cambodia and Philippines). Aus police will also go to the country for expats if they have evidence, local police arrest and deport the suspect with the officer involved. Can't believe US doesn't have similar legislation, although the Aus law only came on to the books 2 years ago.

Will he be deported? I read earlier that he probably won't do jail time for this.

Yes, The USA has similar laws, as do other western countries. My point was that the authorities do not take on one off cases. They concentrate on the conspiracies where there are people putting together sex tour packages. Sending investogators to Thailand and putting together a prosecution can run into the millions of dollars. The Thai justice system, and Thai police are not considered trustworthy by western courts and evidence gathered by Thais is easily challenged in court because of reliability and integrity issues.. In a world of budget constraints, a one off pedo case isn't a priority unless it is all over the news and there is heavy public pressure to prosecute. It is no different than some violent crimes where authorities don't respond. If the accused has a criminal record and was on parole or whatever, there may be a response, but if this is a 1st time offense (or at least getting caught), the fellow has a good chance of melting away and relocating to another place to continue.

[luckyman]

In a Central's toilet room? The nerve knowing the punishment here is severe, tells me he was a very confident pedophile.

I know that a foreign guy in Hua Hin got 37 years for this kind of crime 3 years ago, but he had young boys going in and out of his house for many many years, almost all the neighborhood knew this, yet nobody did or said anything.

Makes me wonder how many more of these creeps are walking around free....

[Konini]

I know in Aus, NZ UK and probably the rest of Europe, you can be charged when you get home with any activity relating to the sex industries - I'm quite sure it's not just restricted to children. I remember reading a while ago the number of Aussies who are now in jail for what they did on their holidays (mainly Cambodia and Philippines). Aus police will also go to the country for expats if they have evidence, local police arrest and deport the suspect with the officer involved. Can't believe US doesn't have similar legislation, although the Aus law only came on to the books 2 years ago.

Will he be deported? I read earlier that he probably won't do jail time for this.

Yes, The USA has similar laws, as do other western countries. My point was that the authorities do not take on one off cases. They concentrate on the conspiracies where there are people putting together sex tour packages. Sending investogators to Thailand and putting together a prosecution can run into the millions of dollars. The Thai justice system, and Thai police are not considered trustworthy by western courts and evidence gathered by Thais is easily challenged in court because of reliability and integrity issues.. In a world of budget constraints, a one off pedo case isn't a priority unless it is all over the news and there is heavy public pressure to prosecute. It is no different than some violent crimes where authorities don't respond. If the accused has a criminal record and was on parole or whatever, there may be a response, but if this is a 1st time offense (or at least getting caught), the fellow has a good chance of melting away and relocating to another place to continue.

Point taken. It's true - unfortunately.

[cdnski12]

Maybe he put in a sub standard performance, not suitable for Video Production Exploitation. This arrest is a warning to all deviants, that a better performance is required, to stay off the Video Review. Can't understand why they didn't subject him to blackmail? Probably he already has a number of other convictions in the USA ... perhaps he is a de-frocked RC Clergyman or Bishop? Obviously he was consuming vast quantities of drugs/Yabba/Alcohol. Any resident deviant can go into 1 of 10,000 bars, strip joints, pool halls, restaurants and obtain many forms of discrete sexual perversion activity, for a relatively nominal sum, in perfect safety from detection. Probably his deviance extended to condom avoidance, which may have been his penile downfall?

[NomadJoe]

Not to worry the US authorities will be interested in this when he returns to the USA!

He is done for whichever way you look at it.

Don't forget, if this perv comes back here to the U.S, he is subjected to criminal prosecution here too.

Only if he is convicted. We had school teacher here in Phuket charged with something similar a couple years ago. Charges were dropped after, presumably, remuneration was settled on. This is sadly how the Thai legal system works.

Edited September 23, 2012 by NomadJoe

[NomadJoe]

I suppose by your comment it would be inappropriate to have cameras to identify young men taking young boys into cubicles right? What is it with you guys with the one paint brush fits all pedos as being "old guys". I know this guys is 65 and is a piece of pond scum and in my opinion should be castrated if guilty.

Lay off the old guys crap!

Same as with the guys who paint all young guys as criminals in an other topic in this section

Maybe as an appropriate step for all retirees coming to live in Thailand is that they provide an upto date police report from their own countries, know this is place for for an O-A visa, but there is a loop hole in the "retirement visa" process and this should be closed...any sniff of criminal conviction, visa declined.

obtaining a police report i.e., from America would not necessarily close any loop hole. In reality it only provides a local account of any criminal activity. America is a big place and when you go to the local police department, the report only applies to that city. This report when presented is accepted but I think without understanding that it is not all inclusive applying to the Federal government and all cities of America.

Incorrect. They will check several databases, including NCIC, the National Crime Information Center, which keeps both federal and state records.

[NomadJoe]

obtaining a police report i.e., from America would not necessarily close any loop hole. In reality it only provides a local account of any criminal activity. America is a big place and when you go to the local police department, the report only applies to that city. This report when presented is accepted but I think without understanding that it is not all inclusive applying to the Federal government and all cities of America.

I believe the required report for an O-A visa in the US is a report from the FBI ?...understand its a national thing...not sure on this as nit a US citizen

Correct. Any local city, county, or state police department can provide you with a national record, usually for a fee.

[NomadJoe]

Erm...apart from the disgusting act mentioned here, is anyone else bothered by the presence of a toilet cubicle camera? Or was the photo inside the cubicle taken from a mobile phone reach over?

I mentioned this on a previous thread.

This practice of placing spy cameras in toilets, elevators, and changing and fitting rooms of department stores, sports centres, hospitals and so on, has been going on for years.

We never know whose watching or where these videos end up when you`re out and about.

I think as well as the child rapist, the store owners should also be in the dock to do some explaining.

I would also like to know, who first approached who, outside the store? Was the said boy a child prostitute? How bad is child prostitution in Pattaya?

How are we 5 pages into this and people are still arguing about spy cameras in toilets and privacy issues?...the staff took the pictures with a camera phone as evidence. There are no cameras watching you pee or taking a dump.

[NomadJoe]

In a Central's toilet room? The nerve knowing the punishment here is severe, tells me he was a very confident pedophile.

I know that a foreign guy in Hua Hin got 37 years for this kind of crime 3 years ago, but he had young boys going in and out of his house for many many years, almost all the neighborhood knew this, yet nobody did or said anything.

Makes me wonder how many more of these creeps are walking around free....

The time is hard but the punishment is rather light. In fact I seem to recall, in terms of age of consent, there being an issue of there being no laws on the books to protect male children in Thailand until relatively recently. That may explain the Hua Hin guy that went so long without being punished. I have heard from a few people that were in Thailand 20-30 years ago that "gay" bars that were full of very underage boys was common in Bangkok back then.

And BTW, not defending him, but pedophilia is an attraction to prepubescent children. This guy may be a pedo, but at 13 this boy is not prepubescent. In fact it will probably shock many to learn that he is over the age of sexual consent in many countries. Just saying...

[anon8]

In fact it will probably shock many to learn that he is over the age of sexual consent in many countries. Just saying...

What countries would these be, please?

[NomadJoe]

Not to worry the US authorities will be interested in this when he returns to the USA!

He is done for whichever way you look at it.

Actually, the US (and Canadian) laws require that a conviction be made upon charges brought and tried in a US court. A conviction in Thailand does not result in a penalty in the USA. Typically, a single case like this is not prosecuted in the USA as it would require building a case, laying charges and a court proceeding, etc. US authorities would be interested if he was part of a conspiracy or engaged in human trafficing. If you look at the previous cases, they have involved abuse over a period of time, commercial activity and alot of people crossing interstate and national boundaries. This case would not be a slam dunk as there are too many questions. I don't even know if the images would be acceptable evidence.

This chap cannot be none to bright if he goes for sex in a public facility. It will be interesting if he has a prior record. I don't know all the facts in the case, but I have had the misfortune of being solicited for sex in Robinson's in Bangkok and it was not particularly pleasant. I suspect I'm not the only one that has been annoyed by those people hovering when trying to take a leak. With the amount of surveillance, my gut feeling is that these sex workers are part of an organized gang and would not be surprised if some heavy hitters were in on the action. A hooker can't operate in a department store unless he has "friends" in the right place and we all know that in the tourist venues, you can't be in the sex trade without paying protection and tributes.

Very good post....now you have me wondering something...I have never been propositioned before, but I have heard that it does happen in Pattaya. The other day at Central here in Phuket while at the urinal I noticed out of my peripheral vision a Thai boy that had come up to the urinal next to me, probably about the same age as the kid in this story, and was looking over at me almost the whole time...made me very uncomfortable. At the time I just figured he was curious about farang? I really didn't know what to make of it. Never crossed my mind that he might have been soliciting.

[NomadJoe]

In fact it will probably shock many to learn that he is over the age of sexual consent in many countries. Just saying...

What countries would these be, please?

http://www.ageofcons...geofconsent.htm

Edited September 24, 2012 by Rimmer
No need for that comment

[NomadJoe]

The kid agreed to the encounter and most likely got paid. He might have even solicited. Why is he not in trouble with the law?

Kid prostitutes exist all over the world all the time.

Kids also get raped and molested all over the world all the time.

Not saying these facts should be grounds for allowing it to continue, but

I think if you have a strong knee-jerk reaction to this story, it probably says a lot more about you than Mr. Shapiro.

By the way, today...

a very nice old lady died a violent death by the hands of a "bad" person

a very cute dog was brutal killed and eaten by a family

an adorable 14 y.o. virgin girl was deflowered because the rapist thought it would cure his AIDS

but these stories weren't covered in the news

There were some "good" "happy" things that happened in the world today, but they didn't show up in the news either.

Nor would it, I suspect, get the TVers all worked up and judgmental in the forums.

P.S. I should know better not to scroll down to read the comments when I want to read the news story as that sometimes gets me worked up too.

He is not in trouble with the law because he is a minor. Same reason why he cannot give consent.

People do get pretty worked up about this topic, but you don't make much of an argument against it.

And BTW, you can take 10 years off of your theoretical 14yo in the AIDs rape story, as that happens in Africa. Saddest, most abhorrent thing ever. Doesn't make what this guy did OK. There will always be someone doing something worse. So anything deemed not as bad as that should be ignored? Does that work when you try to talk your way out of traffic tickets? Well it won't here either.

[tinfoilhat]

I'm not condoning sex with children, nor gay pedophilia, but there are many factors in play when something like this occurs. Lots of teenagers play for pay all over the world for many reasons.

In the past, I was approached by young boys several times in that shopping center asking to go with me. It is very disconcerting to have your behind grabbed by a pubescent boy who is trying to rent his sexual services to you in a public toilet.

This could be a set-up. But I suspect it is just a guy breaking a law with the help of a young guy trying to make a few baht to eat or spend on electronics.

i cant really put my finger as to whether this post is creepy or not, but i rather suspect it may be.

would you care to reword it?

[NomadJoe]

I'm not condoning sex with children, nor gay pedophilia, but there are many factors in play when something like this occurs. Lots of teenagers play for pay all over the world for many reasons.

In the past, I was approached by young boys several times in that shopping center asking to go with me. It is very disconcerting to have your behind grabbed by a pubescent boy who is trying to rent his sexual services to you in a public toilet.

This could be a set-up. But I suspect it is just a guy breaking a law with the help of a young guy trying to make a few baht to eat or spend on electronics.

i cant really put my finger as to whether this post is creepy or not, but i rather suspect it may be.

would you care to reword it?

Became creepy right around the word "help". He makes it sound as if they were buying/selling fake ciggis.

[lizardtongue]

I hope the pedophile gets deported, and that the matter was dealt with thoroughly?

Early hours of the morning where were the child's parents? What steps were taken to trace them?

Was he (the child) being pimped out by someone? If so what action was taken?

Wonder if they have cameras in the women's toilet?

[besth]

It sounds like this guy was set up well and truly.

It will cost him a pretty penny to get out of this.

I recall the same thing happening a few times in Central.

Whilst I dont condone the guys actions it seems to me that these cases are usually entrapment.

I wonder who was propositioning who in the beginning!

Entrapment? The h***.

You can send a kid to proposition any normal person and 99% of the times they will tell them to go away. Even better, they should report them, but we are often cowards and choose not to get into trouble.

I also doubt that the police would be allowed to use young kids of either sex as "bait".

[Rimmer]

Inflammatory posts, libellous posts, quoted replies and other assorted inflammatory dross removed

[Tolley]

It sounds like this guy was set up well and truly.

It will cost him a pretty penny to get out of this.

I recall the same thing happening a few times in Central.

Whilst I dont condone the guys actions it seems to me that these cases are usually entrapment.

I wonder who was propositioning who in the beginning!

Entrapment? The h***.

You can send a kid to proposition any normal person and 99% of the times they will tell them to go away. Even better, they should report them, but we are often cowards and choose not to get into trouble.

I also doubt that the police would be allowed to use young kids of either sex as "bait".

You obviously are not aware of what goes on here.

Again I am not saying the actions of the man werent wrong but why are kids knowingly allowed to solicit in public places.

The same modus operandi has been used many times before here in Pattaya so it is not like it is an isolated incident.

[besth]

It sounds like this guy was set up well and truly.

It will cost him a pretty penny to get out of this.

I recall the same thing happening a few times in Central.

Whilst I dont condone the guys actions it seems to me that these cases are usually entrapment.

I wonder who was propositioning who in the beginning!

Entrapment? The h***.

You can send a kid to proposition any normal person and 99% of the times they will tell them to go away. Even better, they should report them, but we are often cowards and choose not to get into trouble.

I also doubt that the police would be allowed to use young kids of either sex as "bait".

You obviously are not aware of what goes on here.

Again I am not saying the actions of the man werent wrong but why are kids knowingly allowed to solicit in public places.

The same modus operandi has been used many times before here in Pattaya so it is not like it is an isolated incident.

So you are saying that it is legal for the police to use underage boys/girls as a tool?

I may be more naive than I thought, but I don't really think anyone in Thailand can find him/herself in a situation with and underage kid unless looking for it.

[yougivemebaby]

No, he is NOT sticking up for a pedophile. Whose using the family brain cell today? What he is quite rightly saying is that, the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets, but that this is just a small part of a big problem that needs addressing. Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place? If you eradicate the problem, then these sick people will go elsewhere for their kicks. Take away the dustbin, and you won't attract flies. Get it?

The kid agreed to the encounter and most likely got paid. He might have even solicited. Why is he not in trouble with the law?

Kid prostitutes exist all over the world all the time.

Kids also get raped and molested all over the world all the time.

Not saying these facts should be grounds for allowing it to continue, but

I think if you have a strong knee-jerk reaction to this story, it probably says a lot more about you than Mr. Shapiro.

By the way, today...

a very nice old lady died a violent death by the hands of a "bad" person

a very cute dog was brutal killed and eaten by a family

an adorable 14 y.o. virgin girl was deflowered because the rapist thought it would cure his AIDS

but these stories weren't covered in the news

There were some "good" "happy" things that happened in the world today, but they didn't show up in the news either.

Nor would it, I suspect, get the TVers all worked up and judgmental in the forums.

P.S. I should know better not to scroll down to read the comments when I want to read the news story as that sometimes gets me worked up too.

WHAT??? You're sticking up for a PEDOPHILE ? JESUS CHRIST!

Why not eradicate the PEDOPHILES and the children won't need to deal with this situation! Do you believe people are FORCED into these situations? Do you think all children have a choice? Ever hear of people being kidnapped or threatened.? Wake up and smell what you've been smokin. You're a heartless piece of work.

[ozziebloke]

No, he is NOT sticking up for a pedophile. Whose using the family brain cell today? What he is quite rightly saying is that, the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets, but that this is just a small part of a big problem that needs addressing. Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place? If you eradicate the problem, then these sick people will go elsewhere for their kicks. Take away the dustbin, and you won't attract flies. Get it?

@sausageandmash

Difficult to go along with anything you have stated. it seems your trying to push the blame away from the Pedo? Why put any blame on the child or the police and then to say eradicate the problem in one area so they will move on (That being the kids soliciting) Wouldn't eradicating the pedo's eradicate the need for child prostitution? Wouldn't it be a better way to support any authority that is trying to solve this problem than giving any excuse at all for this parasite on this earth?

[ozziebloke]

No, he is NOT sticking up for a pedophile. Whose using the family brain cell today? What he is quite rightly saying is that, the man is a disgusting criminal who deserves everything he gets, but that this is just a small part of a big problem that needs addressing. Why are the authorities ignoring the fact that young boys are soliciting for sex in the first place? If you eradicate the problem, then these sick people will go elsewhere for their kicks. Take away the dustbin, and you won't attract flies. Get it?

@sausageandmash

I can't agree with anything you have stated! You seem to be trying to pass Blame onto the child or the police? And then you state eradicate the problem ( that being the child prostitutes) and it will go somewhere else for others to deal with? Why not try supporting the Authorities that are trying to deal with this problem and put more effort into thinking about how to catch all these Pedo's instead of making reasons for their existance. We dont need These sick people to go elswhere for their kicks !!!!!!