Native American Indians - Asian ?

[Jingthing]

There was a recent t.v. documentary about genetics and the information about the direct genetic link from Asian people in Siberia was shared with some Native American tribal people. For most of them, it was news, and they were very welcoming to hear about it. Another really interesting factoid I got from the show. In general:

... there is greater variation within "racial" groups than between

them.

http://www.aaanet.org/stmts/racepp.htm

This is a pretty mind blowing concept. For example, in a room of ethnically diverse people, most people would assume that the people who superficially LOOK similar (such as black people, etc.) would be more similar genetically. But the facts are it's much more likely for the people who do NOT look similar to be closer to you genetically. The visual clues we associate with race/ethnicity are just that, superficial, and very minor genetically speaking.

[mauGR1]

I assume this is hogwash for the great majority of the Forum members, but, according to the Theosophists and the Anthroposophists, who wrote various books on the topic, the so-called Mongolian race and other different branches of it, were the dominant races at the time of Atlantis, a Continent once situated between East America and the coasts of Western Africa and Europe.

They are said to have migrated in various parts of the Planet before the final catastrophe, which it's said to be happened around 12.000 years ago.

Recent and not so recent Archeological discoveries suggest that there must be something consistent with these theories.

[althemighty]

Yes native americans as a race are considered mongoloid.

And then?... You are adding 1 more to the equation: Now we have: Mongolians, Thai and Americans. I stay with trying to compare native Americans to the Thai. Surely their facial treats are similar, i noticed this also. How about cultural comparisons.

I suggest you learn the difference between Mongolians and mongoloids.....lest you offend everyone in Mongolia or those with down syndrome.

Who uses that term? OP, are you measuring craniums as well>?

Mongoloid is race of people from east asia and south east asia including thailand. Negroid is africa, caucasian europe ect. Yes mongoloid is used as an insult. For example if I was to bash someone and mong them up it means I make their face look mongoloid (asian).

[Semper]

We all came from Africa, Americans and Australians came from Europe.

[Jingthing]

Yes, we all came from Africa and we are massively lucky to had the chance to be humans. The odds were against us.

[Kilgore Trout]

Yes native americans as a race are considered mongoloid.

And then?... You are adding 1 more to the equation: Now we have: Mongolians, Thai and Americans. I stay with trying to compare native Americans to the Thai. Surely their facial treats are similar, i noticed this also. How about cultural comparisons.

I suggest you learn the difference between Mongolians and mongoloids.....lest you offend everyone in Mongolia or those with down syndrome.

Who uses that term? OP, are you measuring craniums as well>?

Mongoloid is race of people from east asia and south east asia including thailand. Negroid is africa, caucasian europe ect. Yes mongoloid is used as an insult. For example if I was to bash someone and mong them up it means I make their face look mongoloid (asian).

This from Dictionary.com (note the "no longer in use" bit):

Anthropology . of, pertaining to, or characteristic of one of the traditional racial divisions of humankind, marked by yellowish complexion, prominent cheekbones, epicanthic folds about the eyes, and straight black hair, and including the Mongols, Manchus, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Annamese, Siamese, Burmese, Tibetans, and, to some extent, the Eskimos and the American Indians: no longer in technical use.

This from Oxford (note the bit about not being used in modern context and being offensive):

The terms Mongoloid, Negroid, Caucasoid, and Australoid were introduced by 19th-century anthropologists such as Blumenbach attempting to classify human racial types, but today they are recognized as having very limited validity as scientific categories. Although occasionally used when making broad generalizations about the world’s populations, in most modern contexts they are potentially offensive, especially when used of individuals. The names of specific peoples or nationalities should be used instead wherever possible.

Nuff said?

Edited October 1, 2012 by Kilgore Trout

[Payboy]

Yes, we all came from Africa and we are massively lucky to had the chance to be humans. The odds were against us.

My heartfelt sympathies to those that didn't make it all the way.

[thaifkrlim]

hesus and his apostles were negroid...it is very unfortunate. against all odds, his doctrine survives

[geriatrickid]

We may share common origins, but some humans have evolved differently. Populations that have a restricted gene pool are more likely to suffer the impact of genetic problems. In layman's language, inbreeding. Those populations that have a more diverse gene pool are more likely to survive changes in their environment because they have the genetic toolbox to support adaptation.. That means those of you chaps that have chosen to breed with with people outside your "racial" group" are more likely to have your offspring survive in the longterm because they will have a varied gene pool to draw upon to adapt to various diseases. So carry on boys, you keep procreating with as varied a gene pool as you can, for humanity's sake.

What I love best about advancements in genetics is that it an analysis can show that even the most rabid of racists have a touch of the "ethnic group" that they hate in them that which makes these people one of "them".

[Chittychangchang]

so in the USA its cool to be a native indian, here in Australia being a native has not really became cool yet, little hard to pretend to be aboriginal to.

Yeah, I suppose it is. That said, native Americans have a very high rate of poverty. I have personally met some "authentic" ones; yes they are rare in some regions but common in others such as the Southwest. I feel like I should feel guilty about what happened to their land and people, but my relatives came after it is was pretty much over. It doesn't help that I used to support this team:

I was under the impression that native Americans owned casinos and are financially comfortable.

[Jingthing]

so in the USA its cool to be a native indian, here in Australia being a native has not really became cool yet, little hard to pretend to be aboriginal to.

Yeah, I suppose it is. That said, native Americans have a very high rate of poverty. I have personally met some "authentic" ones; yes they are rare in some regions but common in others such as the Southwest. I feel like I should feel guilty about what happened to their land and people, but my relatives came after it is was pretty much over. It doesn't help that I used to support this team:

I was under the impression that native Americans owned casinos and are financially comfortable.

Most are not. Like I said their rate of poverty is high. Also not all natives live on reservations!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modern_social_statistics_of_Native_Americans

While Native Americans have begun to take more control of their tribal economies and have begun to improve situations, poverty on Indian Reservations is still a major issue. The U.S. Census in both 1990 and 2000 indicates that poverty has prevailed on reservations: to this day, Native Americans have the highest poverty and unemployment rates in the United States of America.

[Dancealot]

Yes native americans as a race are considered mongoloid.

And then?... You are adding 1 more to the equation: Now we have: Mongolians, Thai and Americans. I stay with trying to compare native Americans to the Thai. Surely their facial treats are similar, i noticed this also. How about cultural comparisons.

I suggest you learn the difference between Mongolians and mongoloids.....lest you offend everyone in Mongolia or those with down syndrome.

Who uses that term? OP, are you measuring craniums as well>?

Funny you are laughing about my comparative joke in the wrong way. I suggest you accept my laughing about you laughing at me. Thanks for making me smile and i am happy i made you smile.. Let' s just keep it at that..

Anyway, the girl in the picture strikes the ball CharlieH threw. There are some remarkable comparisons. And it makes me wonder about how the homo sapiens and home erecti moved around the globe the past 100000 years. Scientist can only guess and make assumptions based on archaeological diggings. But are their conclusions valid? Interesting matter! Even to discuss here on TV.

Edited October 1, 2012 by Dancealot

[Richard W]

The Mongoloids that I've heard described as very Thai-like are in general not 'neo-Mongoloid'. (Neo-Mongoloid is North Chinese, Mongol (subject to qualification) and typical Japanese (exclude Jomon heritage).) Examples I can immediately think of are Uighurs (strong dash of Caucasian) and some American Indians. Perhaps it's just a matter of being Mongoloid without features screaming 'Chinese!'.

As to big noses, it's seriously suggested that they are an adaptation to the Arctic - American Indians have not yet adapted to their new environments.

The term Mongoloid has suffered by its used in the categorisation of 'Mongoloid idiots', whence the insulting use of "mong".

What's hit the term hardest I think is the realisation that there are apparently significant differences between Northern Mongoloids (sinodont) and Southern Mongoloids (sundadont).

As to Jingthing's comment on surface characteristics, it might be worth getting a Black African's views. There is quite a variation in Black Africa (even excluding southern Africa), and I'bve often thoguht it might be wroth asking how non-Africans fit into the African scheme. (I suppose they'll now claim that we have a subsequent non-human admixture - Neanderthal etc!)

[David006]

Interesting topic thanks......

when I first arrived in Thailand one of my first observations while indulging in the usual activities was that there were what appeared to be, two facial feature types, one being more Inuit like and the other more European ( finer features, narrower nose etc) but without the grey skin....some old stager suggested that the more Inuit like were mostly from up north.

Same applies to the northern Chinese which would appear to supports the Mongol theories.

So that raises the question of why the difference?....a different migration or?

Wonder why the northern Thai hill tribe people look Peruvian ? Even to some of their dress....?

It does seem that some of the more southerly Thais have finer features, bone structure etc.....more so the ladies. ?

When I first met curly haired wife, thought she looked somewhat Malato.......which might support an Olmec to Asia migration.

Heady stuff hugh...

Trying to wade through Origin of the Species right now......don't suppose it will help..lol

[craigt3365]

Being a card carrying Native American Indian, I can say in my tribe, the requirement is 1/16th Indian blood. We don't have a casino, are not rich, but not poor. The big drawback is the location....southern Oklahoma!!! No fun. My brother works on a res. And yes, most are very poor.

My wife (Thai) and I have traveled the world fairly extensively. She's been mistaken for a local in Mexico, Panama, Costa Rica, part of Argentina, etc. On the way back from Mexico one time, we were stopped by the army and they took quite some time to figure out she was not a local Indian. Crazy.

[teatree]

When I was in the US I saw a few Latinos who looked just like Thai people.

An earlier poster mentioned Darwin. I bet not many people know the full original title of his most famous work - 'On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life'.

Yes, Darwin was a eugenicist.

[Beetlejuice]

I have noticed over the years that there appears to be some remarkable resemblances between some Thais and the native populations of South America. But there are many Thais that have only a definite South East Asian appearance, such as, Chinese and even Japanese in some cases. Some could be taken as being Indian and on rare occasions I have seen Thais that could almost be mistaken as being farangs and who have claimed to have no farang ancestors that they are aware of. An Uncle of my wife had blue eyes and brownish hair but knew of no Europeans within his family line.

Considering that I have lived in Thailand for a long time, these days it`s the farangs that look out of place in my eyes. They’re tall, heavily built, hairy, pale and stand out like a sore thumb in the crowd. They probably don`t smell very nice either to the Thai nose. We must appear completely weird looking to the Thais and often wonder what they make of us?

[chiangmaikelly]

so in the USA its cool to be a native indian, here in Australia being a native has not really became cool yet, little hard to pretend to be aboriginal to.

Yeah, I suppose it is. That said, native Americans have a very high rate of poverty. I have personally met some "authentic" ones; yes they are rare in some regions but common in others such as the Southwest. I feel like I should feel guilty about what happened to their land and people, but my relatives came after it is was pretty much over. It doesn't help that I used to support this team:

I was under the impression that native Americans owned casinos and are financially comfortable.

Seminole Hard Rock Casino in Florida. I think they are still at war with the US?

[toybits]

There was a time when persons with Downs syndrome were describes a mongoloid. To be called or be referred to as a mongoloid therefore inferred that one was of diminished capacity. So the term Mongoloid as a description of race does not sit very well with a lot of people - in particular Asians. I would avoid this term at all cost. To me - those who persist on using the term a just Trolls.

[doggie888888]

We all came from Africa, Americans and Australians came from Europe.

Perhaps only some Americans and Australians came from Europe? A significant number of Americans and Australians come from Asia or Africa and in fact, a significant number have mixed heritage. I thought I read perhaps 15 years ago that there are more Nguyens than Smiths in Melbourne's white pages.

[bonobo]

so in the USA its cool to be a native indian, here in Australia being a native has not really became cool yet, little hard to pretend to be aboriginal to.

Yeah, I suppose it is. That said, native Americans have a very high rate of poverty. I have personally met some "authentic" ones; yes they are rare in some regions but common in others such as the Southwest. I feel like I should feel guilty about what happened to their land and people, but my relatives came after it is was pretty much over. It doesn't help that I used to support this team:

My US home is in San Diego, the county with the most recognized tribes in the US (18 tribes). And while most never lived on reservations, the poverty level was high amongst the tribe members as recently as the 1970's. However, with the advent of first bingo halls in 1983, then the full-fledged casinos after the US federal government recognized their right to do so in 1988, most San Diego Native Americans vaulted from poor and/or comfortable to rather well off. With only about 16,000 native Americans in the county, they directly employ more non-tribe members than their numbers and have become significant benefactors to the entire county. I read once that merely being a member of the Baron band brings in a check for about $4500/month for every man, woman, or child, while people who actually work in the casinos or who hold tribal positions get an actual salary as well.

With that to spur people on, yes, there has been a rush from many folks to try and prove native American ancestry.

I got my masters with a guy from one of the tribes. he used to recount that as a kid, the members of his band would walk around in blue jeans, cotton shirts, boots, and bolo ties. Now, they walked around in the same--the difference being that all were designer clothes, the boots were ostrich, and the bolo ties were all fine silver.

[Mooner]

My gf is from Surin and she doesnt look Thai. More like Central American. So much so that we were buying DVD's last week and the guy asked her if she spoke Thai.

[chiangmaikelly]

My gf is from Surin and she doesnt look Thai. More like Central American. So much so that we were buying DVD's last week and the guy asked her if she spoke Thai.

You make a good point. If Thais don't know who is Thai how can Farang tell if a Thai is Thai/Chinese?

[Kilgore Trout]

There was a time when persons with Downs syndrome were describes a mongoloid. To be called or be referred to as a mongoloid therefore inferred that one was of diminished capacity. So the term Mongoloid as a description of race does not sit very well with a lot of people - in particular Asians. I would avoid this term at all cost. To me - those who persist on using the term a just Trolls.

Agreed; anyone who calls my kids mongoloids, or half mongoloid is going to have a serious problem