Question About Consulate Income Cert Letter

[Mrjustice]

TO POSTER "HELLODOLLY" above:

REALLY? -- "I'm the only one who seems to have this problem" ... and "(you) see no posts other than your post claiming it happened recently?

It would be nice if folks bothered to read thru the whole post before pointing fingers, and once again presuming

it was our fault; and we are the only ones with the problem. If you read the posts that preceded my original post and were quoted

therein, from Senior Members BB1955 and Mesquite, you would see they have recently and before me had very same problem.

And, no I'm not "new and susceptible". This is our third stay in Chiang Mai -- two prior stays of 4months. So while I haven't been here

for decades, pretty familiar. And, we have been traveling non-stop around the world for past 5 years -- so think we know how to adapt

to different cultures. Oh, and by the way, I am a Harvard Law grad, and Internationally Accredited Arbitrator and Mediator with some 30+ years

experience behind me; so also think I know how to read, interpret, and follow rules/instructions to the letter; not to mention knowing how to

deal with people especially Bureaucrats. So again, I say, WE weren't the problem; and, from what we gathered, it IS a new policy.

Granted, someone else may get treated more liberally -- especially someone as suggested by one of the Global Moderators, who is

a many time renewal person that the Officers may be familiar with. But, for all others, caution is advised is you intend to use the Income

Affidavit method you best have the corroborating documentation of PENSION Income ready to hand over!

[hellodolly]

TO POSTER "HELLODOLLY" above:

REALLY? -- "I'm the only one who seems to have this problem" ... and "(you) see no posts other than your post claiming it happened recently?

It would be nice if folks bothered to read thru the whole post before pointing fingers, and once again presuming

it was our fault; and we are the only ones with the problem. If you read the posts that preceded my original post and were quoted

therein, from Senior Members BB1955 and Mesquite, you would see they have recently and before me had very same problem.

And, no I'm not "new and susceptible". This is our third stay in Chiang Mai -- two prior stays of 4months. So while I haven't been here

for decades, pretty familiar. And, we have been traveling non-stop around the world for past 5 years -- so think we know how to adapt

to different cultures. Oh, and by the way, I am a Harvard Law grad, and Internationally Accredited Arbitrator and Mediator with some 30+ years

experience behind me; so also think I know how to read, interpret, and follow rules/instructions to the letter; not to mention knowing how to

deal with people especially Bureaucrats. So again, I say, WE weren't the problem; and, from what we gathered, it IS a new policy.

Granted, someone else may get treated more liberally -- especially someone as suggested by one of the Global Moderators, who is

a many time renewal person that the Officers may be familiar with. But, for all others, caution is advised is you intend to use the Income

Affidavit method you best have the corroborating documentation of PENSION Income ready to hand over!

Have you a guilty conscience or some other problem. I never accused you of doing any thing wrong I just said it pops up from time to time and has happened in the past.

As I said if it is true there is going to be a storm next week as they process about 30 people a day. I gave you some good advice for living in Thailand stick around and you will catch on. Or at least I would think so with a education like yours.

By the way with your education may be you can explain this quote of yours from a previous post.

"I'm finished with this topic."

I guess with my 12th grade education at a public school I can't understand that.

Edited October 21, 2012 by hellodolly

[mamborobert]

Mrjustice, sir, so glad you cleared up the origins of your nick. 30 years law and a Harvard graduate (don't worry not everyone can get into Yale or Princeton, but do try not to compensate so hard).

For a while there I thought that Mrjustice was simply carried across from another forum where you are a 30 year old Bear wearing arseless chaps who likes to dominate (forums and people in uniforms).

Boola Boola

Edited October 21, 2012 by mamborobert

[Mrjustice]

Yup, both of the last two posters are right.

I should never have volunteered my helpful advice and heads up and just keep my opinions to myself.

Ironic that my opinions used to be paid for handsomely by grateful clients that permitted me to retire

and travel the World at the ripe old age of 50, while this Forum sadly seems to be dominated by too many folks bent on attacking even the well-meaning, who offer informative and helpful advice. Indeed, having been a passive reader for awhile, I even anticipated such attacks in my initial Post.

And yes, I did succumb to 'overcompensation", having been put on the defensive from the start.

I say who needs that. I'll save my informed and gratuitous advice for my appreciative close friends and family.

Stay ignorant, and be happy -- until it bites you in the "arse".

Edited October 21, 2012 by Mrjustice

[elektrified]

"...it is now going to be standard practice that they WILL ask and require supporting documentation to be attached

to the Affidavit if you are using the Income Method... ONLY "Pension" Income will be acceptable, despite the rule saying "Income or Pension".

They always have the right to ask.

That is not true. There are thousands and thousands of people who have retirement visas with income from overseas business, investments, and so forth. Many of us are too young to have a pension, are self-employed, etc.

Edited October 21, 2012 by elektrified

[anselpixel]

As an African American friend in the US once told be, "black draws heat."

Some have problems wherever they go.

Maybe it's the hot water not working, or maybe it's the Chinese mafia, or maybe it's a unique case of discrimination by the most professional and openhanded immigration office in Thailand. I won't come back here.

The problem is above my pay grade.

[hml367]

It would be interesting for someone that makes their extension of stay from now on and used the income method to post their experience.

MSPain

T.M. 87 Application for visa (requires proof of income, not an affidavit, for type O for purposes of spending the rest of life in the Kingdom)

T.M. 86 Application for change of visa (visa already approved, changing visa type, income affidavit acceptable for U.S. citizens and possibly others)

Applying for a visa, applying for change of visa, and extension of permission to stay are all different things.

INCORRECT. They may be 'different things', but requirements are all the SAME:

1. Over age 50.

2. Proof of Income "certified by your Embassy" of 65000 THB; OR 800000THB in Bank (properly seasoned for extension, but not initial Non "O"

That's all!

Again, all I am trying to emphasize, is what has 'changed' now at least for Chiang Mai Immig. Office, is that if you are using the Income Method, the Affidavit from Consulate alone will not be satisfactory; you will be required to have corrobating documentation, and it must be "Pension" income.

This is taken from the main Immigration web site:

CHANGING VISA

A guarantor-letter from The Embassy or Consulate, proving the monthly pension of the applicant not less than 65,000 Baht per month.

VISA EXTENSION

Must have evidence of having income of no less than Baht 65,000 per month

The difference was explained to me in perfect English when I went to Immigration in Bangkok when I tried to convert a Tourist Visa to a Non-Imm O.

From your posts, the form you used was an Appication for Visa, I believe.

MSPain

PS regarding the title of the thread, "Question about Consulate Income Cert Letter", the Consulate does not issue any Income Certification. As has been posted many times, it is nothing more than an affidavit.

Edited October 22, 2012 by hml367

[Mrjustice]

"...it is now going to be standard practice that they WILL ask and require supporting documentation to be attached

to the Affidavit if you are using the Income Method... ONLY "Pension" Income will be acceptable, despite the rule saying "Income or Pension".

They always have the right to ask.

That is not true. There are thousands and thousands of people who have retirement visas with income from overseas business, investments, and so forth. Many of us are too young to have a pension, are self-employed, etc.

Of course they do; what I have raised is the prospect that now they WILL (always) ask, if you present with the US Consulate Income Affidavit.

And, not sure what you are claiming "is not true". As I have repeatedly said, I agree that the law/rule does not/should not limit the type of income to Pension alone; and, I too am one of those (formerly) self-employed folks who have no official Pension and too young for Soc.Sec. And, therein lies the problem I have posted about. If I am correct, that Chiang Mai Immigration will now only accept "Pension" Income (and, with corroborating docs), then all of us self-employed/too young folks who only have Investment (or other types) of Income, are SOL; and you will not be able to obtain Retirement Non-"O" or Ext./Renewal of Stay based on Income Method; and will have to use Money-in-Bank Method; as we are now in process of obtaining for our Ext.

Time will tell if I am correct; or whether I am just the "Black that draws the Heat" as prior Poster claimed. If right, I'll expect a whole lot of apologies for the treatment I have received on this Forum! In the meantime, with all good intentions, I say be prepared!

BTW: If I am so "Black", had a "Bad Attitude"; had "Poor Appearance"; was so "confused about requirements for obtaining my initial Non-O; used incorrect Forms and documentation; and every other thing I have been blamed and faulted for; then pray tell why did I ultimately prevail in obtaining my initial Non-O after going over the head of the Sgt. Major, to the Captain, and then ultimately to Head Inspector. ... But, only with proviso that a courtesy exception was being made for me this 'one time' and that next time I MUST bring corroborating docs. with the Income Affidavit or use Bank method. I dare say, those with less personal and professional skills than I, would never have succeeded. So to all the Flamers, Naysayers and Doubters, I say take that and put it where the Sun don't shine! :-)

Edited October 22, 2012 by Mrjustice

[Genericnic]

Mods, feel free to close this topic. My question was answered within the first 5 or 6 responses and it has proceeded to go way off track since then.

David

[elektrified]

"...it is now going to be standard practice that they WILL ask and require supporting documentation to be attached

to the Affidavit if you are using the Income Method... ONLY "Pension" Income will be acceptable, despite the rule saying "Income or Pension".

They always have the right to ask.

That is not true. There are thousands and thousands of people who have retirement visas with income from overseas business, investments, and so forth. Many of us are too young to have a pension, are self-employed, etc.

Of course they do; what I have raised is the prospect that now they WILL (always) ask, if you present with the US Consulate Income Affidavit.

If I am correct, that Chiang Mai Immigration will now only accept "Pension" Income (and, with corroborating docs), then all of us self-employed/too young folks who only have Investment (or other types) of Income, are SOL; and you will not be able to obtain Retirement Non-"O" or Ext./Renewal of Stay based on Income Method; and will have to use Money-in-Bank Method; as we are now in process of obtaining for our Ext.

Sorry, you are wrong. You don't understand how things work here.

Just because someone at Immigration (or any government agency) told you one thing, it does not mean anyone from that same agency will ever mention it or something similar to it, to anyone again. It's the way things work here. Sounds like you may have offended them somehow.

Edited October 22, 2012 by elektrified

[elektrified]

Mods, feel free to close this topic. My question was answered within the first 5 or 6 responses and it has proceeded to go way off track since then.

David

I hope the mods don't close this as input from people like Mario2008 and other experts benefit us all.

[hellodolly]

Mods, feel free to close this topic. My question was answered within the first 5 or 6 responses and it has proceeded to go way off track since then.

David

Yes please do it has degenerated into a debate with a Harvard Grad lawyer who does not even know what "I'm finished with this topic." means His words several of his own posts back.

He shows how he just bullied his way up to the top man to get his way. For sure going to be a asset to the expat community.

Edited October 22, 2012 by hellodolly

[cloudhopper]

No! This thread needs to remain open for its sheer entertainment value alone.

[mamborobert]

Mods, feel free to close this topic. My question was answered within the first 5 or 6 responses and it has proceeded to go way off track since then.

David

Yes please do it has degenerated into a debate wit a Harvard Grad lawyer who does not even know what

"I'm finished with this topic."

means

I'm in two minds about closing the topic.....it would be good if it could stay open if for no other reason that to establish whether or not there is a pattern of change, or to establish that there is no pattern at all (simply put that immigration continue to ask for supporting documentation on an individual basis where they consider it neccessary).

If we could maybe have half a dozen people post there epereinces (after today's date) and then let the mods look at putting it to sleep.

This issue will be fundamental to many now and in the future. Perhaps people post there experiences only (as a sort of sticky) with no follow up commentary by others?

Edited October 22, 2012 by mamborobert

[hml367]

Please don't close this thread until someone posts an experience of using an income affidavit after the person that indicates there is a change.

MSPain

[hellodolly]

Mods, feel free to close this topic. My question was answered within the first 5 or 6 responses and it has proceeded to go way off track since then.

David

Yes please do it has degenerated into a debate wit a Harvard Grad lawyer who does not even know what

"I'm finished with this topic."

means

I'm in two minds about closing the topic.....it would be good if it could stay open if for no other reason that to establish whether or not there is a pattern of change, or to establish that there is no pattern at all (simply put that immigration continue to ask for supporting documentation on an individual basis where they consider it neccessary).

If we could maybe have half a dozen people post there epereinces (after today's date) and then let the mods look at putting it to sleep.

This issue will be fundamental to many now and in the future. Perhaps people post there experiences only (as a sort of sticky) with no follow up commentary by others?

With all due respect If what the claimant says is true there will be a new thread opened Monday on it and we will then be able to see the truth or it.

As I have said every once in a while we get the same warning and nothing ever comes of it. Just occasionally an interviewer will ask for the documentation which is there rite to but not very often. That is why many of us carry it with us when we go to renew. Saves a trip back.

In 5 renewals I have never been asked for it even though I had it. The first time I renewed I tried to give it to him and h refused to look at it not needed he said.

[NancyL]

Stay tuned! Hubby has an appointment on Thursday morning to obtain his 12-month retirement extension using the so-called "Income Letter" from the U.S. Consulate. Of course, he'll bring documentation of his income, but won't show it unless he's asked. It will probably be like every other year, where it's not requested.

I really got a chuckle about Mr. Justice's claim that the big boss at Immigration made a "special exception" on a "new rule"for him and that "next time" he should do something different or be sure to bring additional documents. I've heard of him doing that at least 5 or 6 other times with newbies, when in fact nothing in the rules, or their standard practies, have changed and they're just putting a newbie thru their paces.

P.S. If Mr. Justice indeed gave us a News Flash about some sort of across-the-board change in standard practice with Americans and income letter, we'll know it long before Hubby's Thursday appointment at Immigration. That sort of news should have been on this forum by now -- it's the end of the Monday business day at Immigration and I expect a few Americans used the income letter method today. (Tomorrow's a holiday, isn't it? Was today also a holiday at Immigration?)

Edited October 22, 2012 by NancyL

[mesquite]

Maybe people who have a problem with mrjustice should take a look at themselves. He is new to cm and is getting the heave ho from some self appointed TV gurus.

Thankfully for me none of you gurus were here when I arrived in cm. Lucky for me!

[Mrjustice]

@MESQUITE: Thank you; I was beginning to feel there were no decent people on this Forum.

Amazing to be subjected to a continuing stream of insults and attacks, for simply offering a helpful

heads up and warning on possible change of Policy of significant import to many ex pats.

But if you are one of the rare few, rather than silent majority, don't know if I want to contribute any

more (well-informed) advice, if this is what occurs.

PS. But FYI, I'm not a "newby to CM"; as I said my third long-term stay.

This is only the first time, we have chosen to apply for the Retirement Visa versus

simply using multiple entry Tourist Visa.

Edited October 22, 2012 by Mrjustice

[hellodolly]

Maybe people who have a problem with mrjustice should take a look at themselves. He is new to cm and is getting the heave ho from some self appointed TV gurus.

Thankfully for me none of you gurus were here when I arrived in cm. Lucky for me!

Well I wasn't here when you came here or I wasn't aware that you had come here.

But my money say's you were not arrogant.

[hml367]

Mrjustice,

The attached file are excerpts from the Royal Thai Police Immigration Division web site, again, not the Chiang Mai Immigration web site. There is a difference when applying for a visa and when applying for an extension to permission to stay.

You are correct, I was in error in my posting that the income affidavit is acceptable for change of visa. It should be that extension of permission to stay the affidavit would suffice, and applying for a visa or change of visa requires Embassy or Consulate guarantee. The point of that post was the difference between the forms.

No attacking here. I am trying to give you information which may help you in the future.

income.pdf

Edited October 23, 2012 by hml367

[davehowden]

When I did my extension in August; with the lady discussed above; my UK Consulate letter was a good 2 months old.

No problems.

[hml367]

A question about the US Consulate Income Affidavit (contrary to the title of the thread)

Does anyone have any experience using this affidavit for anything other than an extension of permission to stay?

MSPain

[hml367]

Mrjustice,

Further information from the U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, web site:

Affidavit of Income ("Income Verification"). To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. Use the Affidavit of Income (PDF, 36 KB). Fill in all of the blanks, but do not sign it.

This seems to state exactly what the affidavit is and what it is used for.

MSPain

[Mrjustice]

Maybe people who have a problem with mrjustice should take a look at themselves. He is new to cm and is getting the heave ho from some self appointed TV gurus.

Thankfully for me none of you gurus were here when I arrived in cm. Lucky for me!

Well I wasn't here when you came here or I wasn't aware that you had come here.

But my money say's you were not arrogant.

So now I am "Arrogant" and a "Bully". Just keep up the attacks, insults and namecalling.

BTW -- anyone who wants to be objective, take a look at the history of this post; and pray tell how/when

I was "arrogant", as it began with a simple helpful heads up advisement, that turned into attacks on me -- especially by you.

True I cited my legal qualifications -- only after attacked and put on the defense -- BTW -- forgot to mention also a former

candidate for elective Judicial Office rated "Well-Qualified" by the State Supreme Court's Blue Ribbon Comm., and also a former

fully sworn Police Officer; and currently accredited as an international Arbitrator and Mediator by a score of ADR Orgs. around the World.

Ya, just more arrogance -- or, maybe just giving the readers some objective info. to weigh the credibility of my advice and opinions versus

the self-appointed TV Gurus who claim to be all-knowing, but one has to wonder, especially with comments such as your recent one:

"That I bullied my way to the Top to get my way at Immigratiom". Really? If you believe that then YOU Know Nothing "about the way things work here" -- or anywhere else in the World. Nobody of any intelligence could believe a powerless Farang could "bully" the Head Inspector of the Thai Immig. Bureau to do anything. Respectfully, more likely I achieved the right result, thru skillful tact, diplomacy, and knowledge of the rules and applicable law.

BTW -- you keep harping on my earlier comment that "I was finished with this Topic". Is changing one's mind

a concept you can't grasp? Or, is it that I'm just not entitled to do so? Get over it. For the sake of Readers who

actually might benefit from my heads-up and helpful advice, I thought it best not to let my posting get diluted by all

the false assumptions and misinterpretations, attacks and insults.

I think Member MESQUITE may have been on to something: What's really at the bottom of this hostility from a few of the more vocal (and ignorant) Posters, appears to be that they are threatened their dominance on the Forum may be undercut if folks who have some real knowledge and expertise begin to contribute more frequently to the Forum. So sad .... so small.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Mrjustice

[Mrjustice]

Mrjustice,

Further information from the U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, web site:

Affidavit of Income ("Income Verification"). To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. Use the Affidavit of Income (PDF, 36 KB). Fill in all of the blanks, but do not sign it.

This seems to state exactly what the affidavit is and what it is used for.

MSPain

Yes, I know and agree fully. Cited this very thing to the folks at Immigration, when they were insisting that US Consulate

could certify corroborating docs. Besides the US Consulate saying this is what the Affidavit is supposed to be used for;

the Thai Rules/law say the same thing: the applicant for Retirement Visa or Extension must show "Income or Pension ...

certified by his/her Embassy or Consulate.." So, I couldn't agree with you more that the Affidavit should be all that is required.

But ... as I have always recognized, its their country, their rules, their authority. And, what they say goes. Comply or fail.

Hope I am wrong too; but just reported on my experience, and my impressions on what the CM Immig. current policy is or may be

in regards to using the Income Affidavit.

[hml367]

Mrjustice,

Further information from the U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, web site:

Affidavit of Income ("Income Verification"). To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. Use the Affidavit of Income (PDF, 36 KB). Fill in all of the blanks, but do not sign it.

This seems to state exactly what the affidavit is and what it is used for.

MSPain

Yes, I know and agree fully. Cited this very thing to the folks at Immigration, when they were insisting that US Consulate

could certify corroborating docs. Besides the US Consulate saying this is what the Affidavit is supposed to be used for;

the Thai Rules/law say the same thing: the applicant for Retirement Visa or Extension must show "Income or Pension ...

certified by his/her Embassy or Consulate.." So, I couldn't agree with you more that the Affidavit should be all that is required.

But ... as I have always recognized, its their country, their rules, their authority. And, what they say goes. Comply or fail.

Hope I am wrong too; but just reported on my experience, and my impressions on what the CM Immig. current policy is or may be

in regards to using the Income Affidavit.

The Department of State of the U.S. has the Office of Authentications to certify things. http://www.state.gov/m/a/auth/

The difference in all of this is getting a visa and extending a permission to stay. For U.S. citizens the affidavit notarized at the U.S. Consulate is accepted by Immigration for permission to stay. It is not accepted to get a visa.

You cannot use the affidavit as a guarantee of income. I don't think anything has changed at CM Imm. We should know better as soon as someone applying for an extension of permission to stay posts recent experiences.

MSPain

Edited October 23, 2012 by hml367

[mamborobert]

Maybe people who have a problem with mrjustice should take a look at themselves. He is new to cm and is getting the heave ho from some self appointed TV gurus.

Thankfully for me none of you gurus were here when I arrived in cm. Lucky for me!

Well I wasn't here when you came here or I wasn't aware that you had come here.

But my money say's you were not arrogant.

So now I am "Arrogant" and a "Bully". Just keep up the attacks, insults and namecalling.

BTW -- anyone who wants to be objective, take a look at the history of this post; and pray tell how/when

I was "arrogant", as it began with a simple helpful heads up advisement, that turned into attacks on me -- especially by you.

True I cited my legal qualifications -- only after attacked and put on the defense -- BTW -- forgot to mention also a former

candidate for elective Judicial Office rated "Well-Qualified" by the State Supreme Court's Blue Ribbon Comm., and also a former

fully sworn Police Officer; and currently accredited as an international Arbitrator and Mediator by a score of ADR Orgs. around the World.

Ya, just more arrogance -- or, maybe just giving the readers some objective info. to weigh the credibility of my advice and opinions versus

the self-appointed TV Gurus who claim to be all-knowing, but one has to wonder, especially with comments such as your recent one:

"That I bullied my way to the Top to get my way at Immigratiom". Really? If you believe that then YOU Know Nothing "about the way things work here" -- or anywhere else in the World. Nobody of any intelligence could believe a powerless Farang could "bully" the Head Inspector of the Thai Immig. Bureau to do anything. Respectfully, more likely I achieved the right result, thru skillful tact, diplomacy, and knowledge of the rules and applicable law.

I think Member MESQUITE may have been on to something: What's really at the bottom of this hostility from a few of the more vocal (and ignorant) Posters, appears to be that they are threatened their dominance on the Forum may be undercut if folks who have some real knowledge and expertise begin to contribute more frequently to the Forum. So sad .... so small.

You forgot to mention your Nobel Peace Prize. Dale Carnegie has a book for you.

Can't we just wait till NancyL's update following her husbands immigration attendance on Thursday.

That will actually help advance (or cease) this discussion substantively.

Still think its worthwhile having a semi sticky where people post their RECENT experiences WITHOUT follow up commentary which would have helped this very important topic from deteriorating as it has. That way the poster could comment on time frames, officer, outcome etc without fear of reprisal or irrelevant diversions. Those that had queries could then perhaps pm the OP (subject to OP's having made that invitation.

[Mrjustice]

Mrjustice,

Further information from the U.S. Consulate, Chiang Mai, web site:

Affidavit of Income ("Income Verification"). To extend your stay in Thailand, Thai immigration might ask you to get a letter from us to “verify” your income. In fact, we are not empowered to do this. Instead, you may execute an affidavit in which you swear under oath or affirm your monthly income. Use the Affidavit of Income (PDF, 36 KB). Fill in all of the blanks, but do not sign it.

This seems to state exactly what the affidavit is and what it is used for.

MSPain

Yes, I know and agree fully. Cited this very thing to the folks at Immigration, when they were insisting that US Consulate

could certify corroborating docs. Besides the US Consulate saying this is what the Affidavit is supposed to be used for;

the Thai Rules/law say the same thing: the applicant for Retirement Visa or Extension must show "Income or Pension ...

certified by his/her Embassy or Consulate.." So, I couldn't agree with you more that the Affidavit should be all that is required.

But ... as I have always recognized, its their country, their rules, their authority. And, what they say goes. Comply or fail.

Hope I am wrong too; but just reported on my experience, and my impressions on what the CM Immig. current policy is or may be

in regards to using the Income Affidavit.

The Department of State of the U.S. has the Office of Authentications to certify things. http://www.state.gov/m/a/auth/

The difference in all of this is getting a visa and extending a permission to stay. For U.S. citizens the affidavit notarized at the U.S. Consulate is accepted by Immigration for permission to stay. It is not accepted to get a visa.

You cannot use the affidavit as a guarantee of income.

MSPain

Sorry I misread your posting. Then I say you are dead wrong.

Why would you cite the US Consulate as authority for what the Thai law and rules require for

obtaining a Thai Visa or Extension of Stay. The only thing the US Consulate is authority for is their own rules and policy with respect to issuing the Income Affidavit and whether THEY will or will not require verification of your claimed income (they will not per their website). But for what the THAI rules and law are for obtaining Visas or Extension, you need to review (and cite) the Thai Immigration Website, and you will see the requirements are absolutely identical for obtaining initial Retirement Non-"O" and Ext. of Stay:

1. Over age 50. 2. Proof of Income of 65000THB/mo. certified by your Embassy or consulate; OR Money-in-Thai Bank

of 800,000THB/per person (seasoned for the Ext. of Stay). No difference. You are really going to confuse newcomers

who wish to apply for Non-O -- BTW: Perfectly acceptable and proper to apply for conversion to Retirement Non-O after

arrival in Thailand (rather than getting more difficult "O-A" abroad). If from Tourist Visa, us form TM86; if on Visa-Exempt as

we were, you use TM87. Supporting documents all the same. Only issue, as originally raised by my posting, will be whether

CM Thai Immig. will or will not accept the US Consulate Income Affidavit as sole proof, or WILL require corrobating docs.; AND

whether they will require the Income to be solely from "Pension". Subsequent Extension of Stay App. prior to expiration of 90-day

"O", will require same documentation. And, for you long-termers, Renewal of Ext. of Stay is also the same and requires same documentation.

Edited October 23, 2012 by Mrjustice

[Mrjustice]

Maybe people who have a problem with mrjustice should take a look at themselves. He is new to cm and is getting the heave ho from some self appointed TV gurus.

Thankfully for me none of you gurus were here when I arrived in cm. Lucky for me!

Well I wasn't here when you came here or I wasn't aware that you had come here.

But my money say's you were not arrogant.

So now I am "Arrogant" and a "Bully". Just keep up the attacks, insults and namecalling.

BTW -- anyone who wants to be objective, take a look at the history of this post; and pray tell how/when

I was "arrogant", as it began with a simple helpful heads up advisement, that turned into attacks on me -- especially by you.

True I cited my legal qualifications -- only after attacked and put on the defense -- BTW -- forgot to mention also a former

candidate for elective Judicial Office rated "Well-Qualified" by the State Supreme Court's Blue Ribbon Comm., and also a former

fully sworn Police Officer; and currently accredited as an international Arbitrator and Mediator by a score of ADR Orgs. around the World.

Ya, just more arrogance -- or, maybe just giving the readers some objective info. to weigh the credibility of my advice and opinions versus

the self-appointed TV Gurus who claim to be all-knowing, but one has to wonder, especially with comments such as your recent one:

"That I bullied my way to the Top to get my way at Immigratiom". Really? If you believe that then YOU Know Nothing "about the way things work here" -- or anywhere else in the World. Nobody of any intelligence could believe a powerless Farang could "bully" the Head Inspector of the Thai Immig. Bureau to do anything. Respectfully, more likely I achieved the right result, thru skillful tact, diplomacy, and knowledge of the rules and applicable law.

I think Member MESQUITE may have been on to something: What's really at the bottom of this hostility from a few of the more vocal (and ignorant) Posters, appears to be that they are threatened their dominance on the Forum may be undercut if folks who have some real knowledge and expertise begin to contribute more frequently to the Forum. So sad .... so small.

You forgot to mention your Nobel Peace Prize. Dale Carnegie has a book for you.

Can't we just wait till NancyL's update following her husbands immigration attendance on Thursday.

That will actually help advance (or cease) this discussion substantively.

Still think its worthwhile having a semi sticky where people post their RECENT experiences WITHOUT follow up commentary which would have helped this very important topic from deteriorating as it has. That way the poster could comment on time frames, officer, outcome etc without fear of reprisal or irrelevant diversions. Those that had queries could then perhaps pm the OP (subject to OP's having made that invitation.

Nope, didn't win Nobel Prize; so that's why I didn't say it. Only cited the true facts.

Sorry if that offends or threatens anyone.

As far NancyL's anticipated update, I agree it will be interesting; but as others of pointed out with respect to our experience,

one person's experience may or may not be the next persons. BTW -- It seems you all keep ignoring the prior two posts that I originally

replied to in this Topic by Senior Members BB1955 and Mesquite, both of whom had the same experience as I did recently. So, that's

3 in a Row already that HAVE been required to show proof beyond Income Affidavit!