Parliament To Debate Nasa Climate Study In Thailand

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THAI-US TIES

Parliament to debate Nasa study

Panya Thiewsangwan/Somroutai Sapsomboon/Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation

But govt won't allow vote on project today

BANGKOK: -- Ajoint meeting of the two Houses of Parliament will today debate an urgent motion on whether the government should allow Nasa to conduct a climate study in Thailand.

Defence Minister Sukampol Suwannathat, who is in charge of the Navy's airport in Rayong, yesterday sought to play down the proposal, saying there were no security issues involved.

"This is a normal motion. The United States wants to use our area and Parliament has to discuss it. There's nothing special," Sukampol said.

The debate is expected to revive a dispute between the government and the opposition over whether the proposal requires endorsement from parliament under Article 190 of the Constitution, as the opposition insisted when Nasa's request first came up in mid-year.

Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee has been assigned by the government to explain details of the request by Nasa - the US National Aeronautics and Space Administration - to use U-Tapao International Airport in its research on tropical climate patterns in Southeast Asia.

Sukampol said the military had no reservations about the US space agency's use of the airport, which is managed by the Navy.

Both the government and opposition would be allowed to argue all aspects of the matter but there would be no voting, he said.

The government's stance is the matter should be discussed under Article 179, which encourages the administration to call a general parliamentary debate on an important problem, in which "no resolution shall be passed".

'Discussed under wrong article'

MP Wirat Kalayasiri from the Democrats said opposition MPs would stress that the Nasa request should be discussed under Article 190 because it involves a security issue and that needed to be passed by Parliament.

Many leading Democrat MPs, including former foreign minister Kasit Piromya, would take to the floor during today's debate, he said.

In July, Prime Minister Yingluck Shinawatra sought a general parliamentary debate on the matter as pressure mounted for the government to turn down the US request to conduct the survey due to concerns over sovereignty. However, the Council of State, the government's legal advisory arm, ruled that this matter does not come under Article 190.

Nasa finally cancelled the multinational climate study after the Thai government failed to give approval, according to a statement from the US Embassy in Bangkok.

"Nasa will not be able to carry out the SEAC4RS scientific study in 2012 because of the lead time necessary to prepare for the study of specific weather patterns only active in August and September," the statement said, referring to the Southeast Asia Composition, Cloud, Climate Coupling Regional Study.

"It is too early to say at this time whether resources will be available to revisit the project next year."

However, Plodprasob said after visiting Washington DC recently that Nasa told him if Thailand gave the green light, about 100 of its staff were ready to come here to conduct the project.

A Thai researcher on the Nasa project expressed joy yesterday that the proposal would be discussed.

"I do hope we will be allowed to study the weather. We still hope and wait to start our research in Thailand," said Narisara Thongboonchoo, an engineering lecturer at King Mongkut's Institute of Technology Lat Krabang, who will be part of the SEAC4RS campaign after participating in two Nasa aerial experiments in Hong Kong and the US.

Countries have already agreed

"Many countries have already allowed Nasa to fly pass their skies, including Singapore and Indonesia, while Malaysia and India are waiting to hear the answer from Thailand. However, they are likely to grant permission. There will be no problem. Now, no country can do anything because they're waiting for Thailand's decision.

"If our country allows it, it's possible that Nasa will hold the weather study mission from August to September," she said.

The government should create a clear system of considering and granting permission, she said, because Thais were worried about the issue. Then, the criteria would be clear and agencies from other countries that plan to do similar aircraft studies would know what they should do when requesting permission.

A German agency had also asked for permission to use an aircraft to fly in Thailand to study weather from August-September next year, she said.

"Vietnam's researchers last week proposed to researchers from Nasa to use the country's airport to carry out the SEAC4RS mission to study clouds and the climate. The proposal was presented at a meeting of 7-SEAS (Seven Southeast Asian Studies) in Taiwan, which is a project that involves the SEAC4RS," she said. "Nasa's researchers also asked me about Thailand's decision." Singapore also offered its airport for the SEAC4RS mission.

-- The Nation 2012-10-02

[cloudhopper]

"Many countries have already allowed Nasa to fly pass their skies, including Singapore and Indonesia, while Malaysia and India are waiting to hear the answer from Thailand. However, they are likely to grant permission. There will be no problem. Now, no country can do anything because they're waiting for Thailand's decision."

Yeah I'm sure these countries are totally paralyzed until your government of children passes down its wise decision.

[GentlemanJim]

These corrupt politicians need teaching a real lesson, and this would be a great place to start by giving them a slap on the face on the world stage. Hold the debate, then hold the vote and when Thailand say 'yes, we will let NASA come here', then NASA and the US say, 'we told you two months ago we had to cancel our planned operation because of your previous actions. We will not come and have no plan to come in the near future'. Time to give this Government a bitch slap.

[pauljones]

Amazing. Especially after the flooding, the Gov. turned down a climate study by world class NASA scientists and engineers.

Was it a lack of kickbacks?

[whybother]

An "urgent" motion, that they've taken 3 months to get around to.

[asiawatcher]

1. It has already been deposed! Why debate it?

2. And appears Constable Plod is back in the foray - man this guys is a busy little beaver.

3. The Naval airport is U-tapau, and whilst having been used previously and I understand is being upgraded for international flights, is still a military airport. NASA and military don't mix.

4. The Nation should learn Nasa is spelt NASA

5. If Thailand wants to piss off China big time - this is one sure way to do it as it so obvious what US is trying to do. Who is likely to be financially secure in the next 10 years between US or China. China owns the US and can protect Thailand against the US war mongers

[HiSoLowSoNoSo]

An "urgent" motion, that they've taken 3 months to get around to.

They have been very busy plundering the state coffers, that' why so long time.

[GentlemanJim]

I don't understand what people think China have got to do with this. What do you think the plan is with the Americans regarding China, or what do you think the Chinese believe the Americans are up to? Just what is the security issue here?

[noitom]

The last round os news on this NASA project was that Thailand rejected it and stated that it wasn't necessary to have the parliament discuss or rule on it because it didn't have anything to do with "Thai sovereignty." One would have to wonder if the editors at the newspaper recall printing this in the past? Why doesn't the newspaper drill in on these endless contradictions and inconsistencies?

[Sateev]

I don't understand what people think China have got to do with this. What do you think the plan is with the Americans regarding China, or what do you think the Chinese believe the Americans are up to? Just what is the security issue here?

The issue is that China is throwing its weight around in the region. The US would like to re-establish some influence in the area, but are currently enjoying less-than-rave reviews for its recent behavior. Thailand has a VERY short memory, and will blow with whatever it perceives as the prevailing wind, currently from China. This is a tussle over influence between a Super Power, and a would-be Super Power, with Thailand making short bets.

Hate to disabuse those who think China will dominate the world, but theirs is a VERY weak position, long-term. Love it or hate it, the US can not be expected to fail, long term. If the US fails, it will be MUCH the worse for China, and they know it. There is only so much market for Chinese Walmart crap...

G_Jim, we are in agreement, for once - the US is NOT the problem, and poses no threat to Thailand. Thailand will do whatever it has to to keep aid flowing - if China offers more, it will be in a MUCH better position to force itself on Thailand, and if you doubt it, look next door at Cambodia...

If you live in the US, boycott Walmart.

[cloudhopper]

The issue is that China is throwing its weight around in the region. The US would like to re-establish some influence in the area,

What weight? Influence to what end?

[Thai at Heart]

The issue is that China is throwing its weight around in the region. The US would like to re-establish some influence in the area,

What weight? Influence to what end?

They plan a naval port in burma with a pipeline for oil for one. With the US on friendly terms with Singapore and Japan, they can effectively block the Chinese navy and Chinas oil supply if they want.

If they get access to the Indian ocean side, naval strategy gets a lot more complicated.

[TheKrayTriplet]

The last round os news on this NASA project was that Thailand rejected it and stated that it wasn't necessary to have the parliament discuss or rule on it because it didn't have anything to do with "Thai sovereignty." One would have to wonder if the editors at the newspaper recall printing this in the past? Why doesn't the newspaper drill in on these endless contradictions and inconsistencies?

Absolutely. Section 190 refers to treaties only. It was the Constitutional Court in 2008 (why is it always them?) that interpreted Section 190 in a very broad manner in order to attack Samak Sundaravej through his Foreign Minister, Noppadon Pattama with his agreement with the Cambodians over the MOU over the Preah Vihear temple. They ruled that the MOU threatened national security, a ruling that the PAD loved obviously.

Since then MP's have been wary of making any agreements wrt foreign countries and usually err on the side of caution and insist it is debated by the parliament - hence the democrat party threatening the PTP with Section 190 over the NASA project (anything that could possibly gain the democrat party political points). Of course the "cancellation" of the NASA project was regarded as a failure of the PTP by the papers and on this forum.

Ironically Abhisit wanted to amend Section 190 back in 2010 but the yellow shirts turned out and changed his mind.

In the meantime let the rumours and usual misinformation fly around.

[Pimay1]

The issue is that China is throwing its weight around in the region. The US would like to re-establish some influence in the area,

What weight? Influence to what end?

They plan a naval port in burma with a pipeline for oil for one. With the US on friendly terms with Singapore and Japan, they can effectively block the Chinese navy and Chinas oil supply if they want.

If they get access to the Indian ocean side, naval strategy gets a lot more complicated.

I think you have been reading too many Tom Clancy spy novels.

[GentlemanJim]

To be honest the whole 'cold war' concept of blocking ocean and sea access with naval vessels is all a bit outdated. One well placed cruise missile stops any ship going anywhere, do that once and every other ship will follow your instructions to the letter. .There is absolutely no need for the US to establish any 'influence' in the area whatsoever, it has enough. A military staging post in Myanmar is a great idea, but nothing to do with military requirements. Putting 3000-5000 military personnel in an area injects a massive amount of money in to the local economy, jobs are created and before long, under the guise of a 'military staging post' the entire local economy is totally dependent on the Yankee and his bottomless wallet. The corporations flood in to service the new market and the claims to mine Myanmar's vast deposits and resources is made, otherwise the military base is simply closed and the entire, now booming economy collapses and everyone, except the US looses. Compliance with requests to mine resources is therefore a given. The establishment of US military presence anywhere is no longer to do with having a military advantage, the military are used to front up the commercial interests that are lobbied for back in Washington.

Also, do not fall in to the trap that the Japanese are 'friends' with the US. The Japanese have towed the line for one reason only..the US nuked them and at the subsequent surrender, imposed some back breaking sanctions on them that were endorsed world-wide. The Japanese have used all that to their advantage, and with little requirement to sink vast amounts of money into the military complex they have been able to put their money where we all should have done, into the development of economy, industry, commerce and standard of living. The Japanese are reminded of their loss of face on every official meeting with the US, be it Governmental or business, and they will have their day. If, metaphorically speaking, the US were to fall down a big hole, I am unsure the Japanese would extend a hand to pull them out, in fact they might just start shoveling earth in !

Establishment of a base in Thailand by NASA, can have nothing to do with security. spying or any other such issue as many speculate. A nation that has the most sophisticated communications monitoring facilities in the world and a satellite system that can read the print on a newspaper you are holding does not need to consider implementing some crappy third world concept of espionage and subterfuge. Perhaps NASA just wanted to measure weather systems after all!

[asiawatcher]

I don't understand what people think China have got to do with this. What do you think the plan is with the Americans regarding China, or what do you think the Chinese believe the Americans are up to? Just what is the security issue here?

The US has recently been setting up observation stations all over Asia (amongst other things), under the guise of 'weather'. It is no secret. The USA is now 145 trillion in debt, a debt that can never be repaid (EVER) unless they start 'cultivating' their own oil. The reports fed from media at 16 - 24 trillion is ludicrous. They have enough reserves for the world that they do not need to buy one more drop from the oil rich nations, they just have not started extracting it yet. But controlling the oil reserves of other countries has been their goal, no different from Japan hoarding coal by buying in Australia and dumping it as reefs in their territorial waters for later resumption. But right now China is slowing but still has enormous wealth. The US and China have huge military capability matched by no-one else, not even Russia and whilst US has been removing nuclear weapons China has been increasing. The US is nervous as it's economy is on the brink of collapse thus this becomes a issue of knowing what the other guy is doing! China's currency is most likely to replace the US as reserve currency in the very foreseeable future. Read this article to get a better idea overall.

http://www.dailyhera...news/706229625/

Edited October 2, 2012 by asiawatcher

[GeorgeO]

These corrupt politicians need teaching a real lesson, and this would be a great place to start by giving them a slap on the face on the world stage. Hold the debate, then hold the vote and when Thailand say 'yes, we will let NASA come here', then NASA and the US say, 'we told you two months ago we had to cancel our planned operation because of your previous actions. We will not come and have no plan to come in the near future'. Time to give this Government a bitch slap.

I agree with you GentlemanJim, as far as I can recall, this particular ship has already sailed.

The US made a statement saying that it did not have the time to sit around and wait for these muppets to come to some sort of decision!

Still, in their usual form, they are now going to hold a debate on the matter ...duuh!

[LomSak27]

I read the article aging expat asiawatcher - 3/4 of your post is nothing but your own ramblings, not supported by, and having nothing to do with the article you link.

Have a Leo for me aging asiawatcher! Post on!

[Thai at Heart]

The issue is that China is throwing its weight around in the region. The US would like to re-establish some influence in the area,

What weight? Influence to what end?

They plan a naval port in burma with a pipeline for oil for one. With the US on friendly terms with Singapore and Japan, they can effectively block the Chinese navy and Chinas oil supply if they want.

If they get access to the Indian ocean side, naval strategy gets a lot more complicated.

I think you have been reading too many Tom Clancy spy novels.

Nope. Read it in the economist a year ago. The extension of Chinese naval power is a big issue for the USA and the region.

5] China has developed a deep-water

port on Kyaukpyu in the Bay of Bengal. [7] It has also built an 85-metre jetty, naval facilities and major reconnaissance and electronic intelligence

systems on the Great Coco Island, [10][5] located 18 kilometres from India's Andaman and Nicobar Islands, giving China capabilities to monitor India's

military activities, including missile tests. [5] China assists in constructing a naval base in Sittwe, a strategically important sea port close to eastern

India's largest city and port, Kolkata. [

Just wiki relations between Myanmar and China.

http://idsa.in/idsacomments/ChinasPipelinesinMyanmar_shivananda_100112

Edited October 2, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[55Jay]

"The extension of Chinese naval power is a big issue for the USA and the region."

Agreed. And weather is (one) significant factor in planning military operations and strategy.

Edited October 2, 2012 by 55Jay

[RisqEM]

I wonder why they're even debating it. Seems to me the plan was withdrawn when the government fought and bickered about it before, and ignored a deadline set in June. The US gave them a deadline because they need to prep vehicles, and as usual Thai's ignored something they didn't want to hear.

Wonder why they're debating now? Doubt there' any conspiracy, just Thai's fumbling at politics as usual!

[caughtintheact]

We've been told for years by the UN, NASA, and Al Bore that Climate Change/Global Warming/Manmade Global Warming, etc., is "settled science". So why does NASA want to waste more taxpayer money to come here?

[infernalman7]

Wouldn't it be awesome fun now that the Democrats will flame the government for not letting NASA in in-time (when they caused all the problems themselves months ago)

[khunken]

Wouldn't it be awesome fun now that the Democrats will flame the government for not letting NASA in in-time (when they caused all the problems themselves months ago)

They didn't cause all the problems. The problem is that the current government have an unwarranted fear of proper debates in parliament. Ruling by decree is Thaksin's forte & he tells PTP what to do..

PTP have a sizable majority so what the hell are they afraid of?

[whybother]

Wouldn't it be awesome fun now that the Democrats will flame the government for not letting NASA in in-time (when they caused all the problems themselves months ago)

What problems did the Democrats cause 12 months ago?

[dcutman]

OK all you conspiracy theorists, It really is about weather and pollution in the upper atmosphere, and how that is affecting weather patterns. I am sure there are some other studies planned. But it aint got anything to do with China or a military buildup.

I believe Thailand hesitated because, it knows it pollutes big time, and it does not want to look like filthy stepchild of Asia.

[OZEMADE]

China and Russia are the ones that dont want the USA any where near their countrys, especially with long range warning aircraft.

I saw a show a couple of weeks ago, a show re China rattling their swords, showing their Military mite. The answer they got from the American Military was they the Chinese have toys against the Military Mite of the US arsenal.

If they want to come to UTAPOU they will, as they did in the Vietnam War. The Phillippines have already invited them back.

They are already in Darwin and the new Marine Barracks is almost finished, one of the US Fleets is moving to Australia and they have re vamped Woomera Rocket Range and Pine Gap, Australias and the US Spy Base.

[Mosha]

I believe things are less cold with the USA relationship with NZ and their strict non nuclear stance. Did anyone see the Intelligence Squared Debate on BBC filmed in Australia. The were debating a motion about there was nothing to fear from China's emergence as a developing nation. The motion was soundly defeated.

[khunken]

I believe things are less cold with the USA relationship with NZ and their strict non nuclear stance. Did anyone see the Intelligence Squared Debate on BBC filmed in Australia. The were debating a motion about there was nothing to fear from China's emergence as a developing nation. The motion was soundly defeated.

Yes - I watched it too. IMO the result was more to do with the lack of debating quality on the pro side than any real fear.

[Thai at Heart]

I believe things are less cold with the USA relationship with NZ and their strict non nuclear stance. Did anyone see the Intelligence Squared Debate on BBC filmed in Australia. The were debating a motion about there was nothing to fear from China's emergence as a developing nation. The motion was soundly defeated.

Yes - I watched it too. IMO the result was more to do with the lack of debating quality on the pro side than any real fear.

It is the Militarys job to be paranoid. Is an emerging China potentially a problem in the south China sea?

Just look at the spats that are going on already.