Johnniey Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 However it's simply not fair to run down this guy and his colleagues based on our pre-supposing stereotypes (the same thoughts have passed through my mind too, but there is room for a large chunk of benefit of the doubt). through out the custody case, which was settled with a logical verdict, Oswald always stated that the particular court showed absolutely no distinction or impartiality towards either the Thai citizen or the South African citizen (let's dispell that myth right now). There is a process to go through, exactly the same as in the west, and every Thai official that we have encountered have been compassionate, caring, aware and professional. Special mentions to Siam Legal and the South African Embassy, and Siam Funeral for amazing advice and support throughout. Based on what we've been through this week, I recommend all of them. I think you'll find that those running the police down are tourists or other short-term foreigners here that don't realise that the Thai courts are very fair, IF you know how to deal with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnniey Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Isn't this the same report from yesterday? I pray for some very decisive news today concerning the child and his welfare. What good is "praying" going to do? But yes, best if the police get to the bottom of this. Prayer can be a very powerful thing. The only ones who mock prayer are the ones who never try it. Uh, yeah. No kidding. Why would anyone who thought it worthy of mocking spend any time doing it? I wonder how powerful it was for the millions of people who have prayed in vain for (to give just one example) their survival or that of their loved ones from a fatal disease? In any case let's hope things turn out the best they can for a boy who has lost his father... I estimate that about 4 billion people worldwide pray, including Musilms, Budhhists, Christians and have faith in it but you think YOU know better, rather arrogant isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F430murci Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 South Africa accepts dual nationality, there should be no issue. I would presume his father already went through the procedure. TAH I think one issue at the moment could be if the little one was already registered with the Embassy and holds a passport. It is something many of us do, but can take years to get around to it. One thing we can do is it will be no wasted effort to send a short email to the Embassy. The Consul for one, also copy in the Ambassador, the First and Third secratary, hell just phone them, what's the worst they can do...not answer. I am sure they are already all over this like a rash but for the time it will take to make a short post on TV we can start the ball rolling with mails of grave concern for the little one and condolences for Oswald included. The more communications an Embassy receive the greater the political pressure to act. Embassy of the Republic of South Africa 12th A Floor, M Thai Tower, All Seasons Place 87 Wireless Road, Lumpini, Pathumwan Bangkok Tel: +66 (0) 2 659 2900 Fax: +66 (0) 2 685 3500 e-mail: [email protected] www.saembbangkok.com H.E. Ambassador Ms. Ruby Marks ext 51001 Political Section: Counsellor Mr. Velelo G. Kwepile [email protected] ext 51003 First Secretary Mr. Raymond W. Manzini [email protected] ext 51022 Third Secretary Ms. Jabulisile Msibi msibij @dirco.gov.za ext. 51021 Police Service Counsellor (South African Police Service Liason & Officer) Mr. Gregory A. Gaillard [email protected] ext. 51012 CONSULAR SECTION [email protected] fax:+66 (0) 2 250 1063 While you are at it, make sure that everyone can see you have copied the main man, their boss.!! Contact emails for President Zuma Private Office of the President Deputy Director General: Private Office of the President Ms Lakela Kaunda Telephone: (Union Buildings) 012 300 5217 Fax: (Union Buildings) 012 323 3231 E-mail: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Get to it now, it will take the time for 1 cup of coffee. Mine is already sent to the lot! Thank you Sir, this is all the info I have been looking for. GentelmanJim, if there is anything I can do from my side as well please let me know. I have already been in contact with friends of mine back home in SA to see if I can try and gather as much support on this as possible. Media blitz is key,. Unfortunately, Thailand does nothing and investigates even less unless full on media assault raises concern about tourist dollars so media needs to slant articles at increasing danger or risk to foreigners in Thailand. Getting media just to focus on child custody issue will garner little attention absent danger to foreigners and official corruption angle. The good doc brother or those with means need to call in favors to news papers and media in areas when Thailand from where Thailand expects to receive tourism. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheWalkingMan Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Too many nutjobs running around and ready to kill. Are these people career criminals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) I estimate that about 4 billion people worldwide pray, including Musilms, Budhhists, Christians and have faith in it but you think YOU know better, rather arrogant isn't it? Where have I claimed to know better? Of such matters, I KNOW very little and can only go by own feelings which apply only to me. I merely pointed out 2 things 1) Of course people who mock prayer don't pray. 2) The power of prayer is arguable at best given that of those billions who have prayed over millennia, it's an indisputable fact that millions of decent people of faith have had ( to cite just one example) a child die despite their fervent prayers that the child be spared. The number of people subscribing to a belief has absolutely ZERO relevance to its veracity. By the way Islam and Christianity are mutually exclusive. So if you are a believer, at least some of those billions are praying the wrong way.... Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app Edited October 8, 2012 by SteeleJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annabel Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 You may be right, I am unsure if he holds dual nationality, but, if we think we cannot succeed, we are absolutely correct. I for one would like to try. South Africa accepts dual nationality, there should be no issue. I would presume his father already went through the procedure. TAH I think one issue at the moment could be if the little one was already registered with the Embassy and holds a passport. It is something many of us do, but can take years to get around to it. One thing we can do is it will be no wasted effort to send a short email to the Embassy. The Consul for one, also copy in the Ambassador, the First and Third secratary, hell just phone them, what's the worst they can do...not answer. I am sure they are already all over this like a rash but for the time it will take to make a short post on TV we can start the ball rolling with mails of grave concern for the little one and condolences for Oswald included. The more communications an Embassy receive the greater the political pressure to act. Embassy of the Republic of South Africa 12th A Floor, M Thai Tower, All Seasons Place 87 Wireless Road, Lumpini, Pathumwan Bangkok Tel: +66 (0) 2 659 2900 Fax: +66 (0) 2 685 3500 e-mail: [email protected] www.saembbangkok.com H.E. Ambassador Ms. Ruby Marks ext 51001 Political Section: Counsellor Mr. Velelo G. Kwepile [email protected] ext 51003 First Secretary Mr. Raymond W. Manzini [email protected] ext 51022 Third Secretary Ms. Jabulisile Msibi msibij @dirco.gov.za ext. 51021 Police Service Counsellor (South African Police Service Liason & Officer) Mr. Gregory A. Gaillard [email protected] ext. 51012 CONSULAR SECTION [email protected] fax:+66 (0) 2 250 1063 While you are at it, make sure that everyone can see you have copied the main man, their boss.!! Contact emails for President Zuma Private Office of the President Deputy Director General: Private Office of the President Ms Lakela Kaunda Telephone: (Union Buildings) 012 300 5217 Fax: (Union Buildings) 012 323 3231 E-mail: [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Get to it now, it will take the time for 1 cup of coffee. Mine is already sent to the lot! Good luck and hope it works better than the ones sent to the Canadian Embassy in regards to the Belanger Sisters.... Totally Numb and no response ! (yes, Yes I know the song says Comfortably Numb but I prefer Totally Numb) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 A post containing a copy and paste of PM's has been removed as per forum rule 20. Another post containing email addresses as well as personal details has been removed as well. http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?app=forums&module=extras§ion=boardrules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitfield Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I have every confidence in the Thai Family Courts. For those who doubt that Oswald's son could go to SA or Oz please remember Toby Charnaud, who was murdered in very similar circumstances back in 2006. His son is now being brought up in UK by Toby's sister if I recall correctly. The Thai Family courts are very fair and I have personal experience. The child's interests are always paramount regardless of nationality. I just hope they find him soon. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Vicious village gutter trash - Capital Punishment a must - Let them have the full 9 yards, not the easy way out (lethal injection). The wife wants a bullet put in back of her head, not told in advance the day of reckoning, just taken out in the prison yard every morning not knowing WHEN it will be, Grand mum and Uncle want stoning to death. One can only hope the bloodline is eradicated above the child. Now that is something worth praying for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackr Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Don't you all be so confident this sort of thing is unique to Thailand. It isn't, nobody said it was, but this is Thailand if I'm not mistaken and most places don't have (local on foreign) murders of this nature happen with such alarming regularity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteeleJoe Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) However it's simply not fair to run down this guy and his colleagues based on our pre-supposing stereotypes (the same thoughts have passed through my mind too, but there is room for a large chunk of benefit of the doubt). through out the custody case, which was settled with a logical verdict, Oswald always stated that the particular court showed absolutely no distinction or impartiality towards either the Thai citizen or the South African citizen (let's dispell that myth right now). There is a process to go through, exactly the same as in the west, and every Thai official that we have encountered have been compassionate, caring, aware and professional. Special mentions to Siam Legal and the South African Embassy, and Siam Funeral for amazing advice and support throughout. Based on what we've been through this week, I recommend all of them. I think you'll find that those running the police down are tourists or other short-term foreigners here that don't realise that the Thai courts are very fair, IF you know how to deal with them. The police and the (family) courts are two different things. I've been here for decades and like every person I know who's been here a long time, as well as almost all the Thais I know, I am very critical of the police based on copious and sound reasons. Whereas the Family Courts have long had a good rep. Sent from my iPad using ThaiVisa app Edited October 8, 2012 by SteeleJoe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post weka Posted October 8, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Sorry, there may be a mis communication here. Don't waste your energy preaching to the converted by writing or phoning the embassy! Think about it here - they have done more than anyone on the planet to support Oswald's family and get the boy to safety, so there is little point in you (a completely unrelated party relying on conflicting media reports) ringing up or writing to them to tell them to find the lad and ensure his safety. I love the support you guys show, I'm totally blown away by it (especially Gentleman Jim) and I think one day we can use that energy and all of you if this case begins to lag or stall - but that time is not upon us right now. The Police have done a good job, the embassy have done a good job, the lawyers have done a good job and now all of those organisations want the best for the child and are working towards that. There's no point in reminding them that this is all terrible and must be resolved as quickly as possible. So many people talk about Thai law, well it states, the same as most of our home country's law that the mother has not been CONVICTED of anything yet ergo..... confession and conviction are not the same things. Please keep praying, please keep supporting, and when the time is right, let's make a constructive show of support and mobilise in a manner that truly and efficiently helps that beautiful little boy - write to the media rather than taking up the time of the very people who are DOING the most to help the situation That's what I think is best for now Edited October 8, 2012 by weka 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
weka Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) I have every confidence in the Thai Family Courts. For those who doubt that Oswald's son could go to SA or Oz please remember Toby Charnaud, who was murdered in very similar circumstances back in 2006. His son is now being brought up in UK by Toby's sister if I recall correctly. The Thai Family courts are very fair and I have personal experience. The child's interests are always paramount regardless of nationality. I just hope they find him soon. Thank you Whitfield There is NO official evidence to suggest that what Whitfield describes is not relevant. Remember, Oswald won a fair custody battle already. Let's remain rational and clear headed here and not let stupid and unproven stereotypes rule the day (it's not time for Springfield lynch mob outside Moe's tavern yet!) Edited October 8, 2012 by weka Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I Like Thai Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 through out the custody case, which was settled with a logical verdict, Oswald always stated that the particular court showed absolutely no distinction or impartiality towards either the Thai citizen or the South African citizen (let's dispell that myth right now). From this piece in the post it would suggest that the murdered man had won his custody battle with his ex wife for their son. What thoughts might go through the mind of a mother who had just lost custody of her child for the first time since she gave birth to him 3 years before. This is a very tragic situation for everyone involved on both sides. It has been stated already that the Thai police/Judiciary have been very fair, professional and even handed in this matter from the outset. I would like to await the outcome of any legal proceedings before making any uneducated decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paulbrun Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Opinions are like A-holes - everyone has them. And your comment proves the point..! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Opinions are like A-holes - everyone has them. And your comment proves the point..! Paulbrun You have to wonder about the type of character that lurks around for a year and that is one of his 3 contributions. Edited October 8, 2012 by GentlemanJim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beammeup Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 Isn't this the same report from yesterday? I pray for some very decisive news today concerning the child and his welfare. What good is "praying" going to do? But yes, best if the police get to the bottom of this. What good is your comment if the person wants to prey let him or her do it whats it got to do with you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QualityTouristNumberOne Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The boy has family in South Africa and Thailand. Maybe the mother's relatives can look after the child better than the fathers?? OK the mother and grandmother are no good but the rest might be. Why did he marry into this family to start with and start a family? - they must have had something going for them. One side is more educated and probably has more money but we don't know this - pure speculation. This will give them an unfair advantage in the court. Just because someone has money and degrees doesn't mean they would be good parents. That's taking the concept of "playing devil's advocate" a bit too far mate. remove your head from your anal cavity,your foot from your mouth, and your fingers from your keyboard and kindly step AWAY from the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atyclb Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 I would think such a high profile case would stimulate the authorities to find the child ASAP, take him into protective custody, until the court issues get sorted out. It could be other factions are holding the child for ransom / bribe. If ever a non Thai relative had a high probability chance to get custody, this is it. Perhaps he had a high probability chance prior to the murder which is the reason they chose murder. I hate to say it but there are some horrendously low, evil, and despicable families connected to some of the bar girls. (if applicable to this case) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 The boy has family in South Africa and Thailand. Maybe the mother's relatives can look after the child better than the fathers?? OK the mother and grandmother are no good but the rest might be. Why did he marry into this family to start with and start a family? - they must have had something going for them. One side is more educated and probably has more money but we don't know this - pure speculation. This will give them an unfair advantage in the court. Just because someone has money and degrees doesn't mean they would be good parents. That's taking the concept of "playing devil's advocate" a bit too far mate. remove your head from your anal cavity,your foot from your mouth, and your fingers from your keyboard and kindly step AWAY from the internet. Indeed, aside from the nest of vipers who plan murders, they sounds like a model bunch. Maybe, just maybe people who commit premeditated murder of a child s father ARENT the ideal people to care for a child. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post cdnski12 Posted October 8, 2012 Popular Post Share Posted October 8, 2012 This only confirms my point that ferangs are probably stupid to sucumb to the Greet, Meet, Marry, Have Children, Build a house you don't own syndrome in LOS. Much safer to find, fornicate with and forget your Thai Terak. You will never be Thai ... as per 5 generation Hiso/Burmese/Cabodians/Laotians. It is a simple fact of Expat life in LOS. Yes there are long term relationships. The best ones I know are those not based on money. Short time sex, buy a condo if that turns you on, but best to RENT, RENT & RENT ..again. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
craigt3365 Posted October 8, 2012 Share Posted October 8, 2012 A few posts have been removed, and a few others are borderline. Per forum rules: 29) Not to lobby members. Please be informed that ThaiVisa is an apolitical discussion forum, meaning that we take an unbiased position in regard to political matters in Thailand. As such, ThaiVisa will not permit itself to become a sounding platform for members to lobby other members to effect changes to or suggestions on political issues or Thai government decrees. This does not mean that members cannot voice a political opinion as ThaiVisa is first and foremost a discussion forum, but lobbying for any kind of action is forbidden. Any further recommendations to lobby members for action will result in an official warning being issued and a potential posting suspension. I hope you understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geriatrickid Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Good luck and hope it works better than the ones sent to the Canadian Embassy in regards to the Belanger Sisters.... Totally Numb and no response ! (yes, Yes I know the song says Comfortably Numb but I prefer Totally Numb) Please note that the Canadiuan embassy has been diligent. There are privacy laws that apply that preclude the embassy from releasing information to the public. The Quebec provincial medical examiner is the one that has the information as to the cause of death and the contributing factors. Just as the Canadian embassy can not and should not release confidential information, the South African embassy faces the same predicament. It is very easy to take potshots at embassy officials, but the general public has no clue as to the meetings and pressure that the respective embassies will bring to bear in their respective cases. Neither embassy is in a position to pressure Thailand and must work within the system. Just what does one expect the respective embassies to do short of sanctions or severing diplomatic ties? The embassy officials often have no more clout in trying to elicit co-operation than do run of the mill foreigners. One need only look at how the foreign consuls are ignored in Phuket. As long as foreigners are falling over themselves to get to Thailand, foreign governments, except for the USA and China, have no influence. The aforementioned countries have a big stick and its called money. Neither South Africa, nor Canada are large foreign aid donors, nor do their respective commercial interests have a significant impact. In plain language, the two countries cannot do much more than to protest when they are aggrieved. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thai at Heart Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 Good luck and hope it works better than the ones sent to the Canadian Embassy in regards to the Belanger Sisters.... Totally Numb and no response ! (yes, Yes I know the song says Comfortably Numb but I prefer Totally Numb) Please note that the Canadiuan embassy has been diligent. There are privacy laws that apply that preclude the embassy from releasing information to the public. The Quebec provincial medical examiner is the one that has the information as to the cause of death and the contributing factors. Just as the Canadian embassy can not and should not release confidential information, the South African embassy faces the same predicament. It is very easy to take potshots at embassy officials, but the general public has no clue as to the meetings and pressure that the respective embassies will bring to bear in their respective cases. Neither embassy is in a position to pressure Thailand and must work within the system. Just what does one expect the respective embassies to do short of sanctions or severing diplomatic ties? The embassy officials often have no more clout in trying to elicit co-operation than do run of the mill foreigners. One need only look at how the foreign consuls are ignored in Phuket. As long as foreigners are falling over themselves to get to Thailand, foreign governments, except for the USA and China, have no influence. The aforementioned countries have a big stick and its called money. Neither South Africa, nor Canada are large foreign aid donors, nor do their respective commercial interests have a significant impact. In plain language, the two countries cannot do much more than to protest when they are aggrieved. Absolutely, to believe that the embassy has not been involved at all in an incident like this is stretching it very far. The British embassy for example has a nationwide network of volunteers who would be the first point of contact in a case like this, then the embassy follows up with direct contact as needed. I doubt the SA embassy has quite the same type of network, but as others have mentioned here, they have been extremely helpful. Believe it or not, it is essentially their job to stick their noses into issues as far as they can within the law. What they can't do it push the system to get the result we would like to see, that is a Thai issue, and that is the way it is. However, I know that embassies do lobby authorities to increase protection for tourists in the main areas, give ideas about how to improve visas and the such, and hope that the Thai's do something about it. But as you mention above, as long as the numbers of arrivals keep increasing, it is very hard for anyone to get anything to change. Then add in legality of land ownership for farangs as an example, the moment the subject is broached, people's eyes glaze over and say "Selling the country" in a trance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Shameless bump back to the top! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tinfoilhat Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 In this land of psycho, If the boy is missing... it might means that they killed him as well. this post got a freakin like? there are some sad bastards on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GentlemanJim Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Any news from those in the know concerning the plight of this little boy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coma Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Any news from those in the know concerning the plight of this little boy? All those " in the know " have gone silent as soon as the media went silent. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 The boy has family in South Africa and Thailand. Maybe the mother's relatives can look after the child better than the fathers?? OK the mother and grandmother are no good but the rest might be. Why did he marry into this family to start with and start a family? - they must have had something going for them. One side is more educated and probably has more money but we don't know this - pure speculation. This will give them an unfair advantage in the court. Just because someone has money and degrees doesn't mean they would be good parents. "One side is more educated and probably has more money but we don't know this - pure speculation" If I may speculate on this. We have a family of rice farmers and we have a family of successful Physicians and business people. I would say that the RICE Farmers are far more educated and in a better position to care for the boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chooka Posted October 11, 2012 Share Posted October 11, 2012 Isn't this the same report from yesterday? I pray for some very decisive news today concerning the child and his welfare. What good is "praying" going to do? But yes, best if the police get to the bottom of this. Prayer can be a very powerful thing. The only ones who mock prayer are the ones who never try it. Praying to an imaginary friend seems a little ridiculous, you will get more assistance from a brick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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