Remove Sandbags In 15 Days, Bangkok Governor Told

[webfact]

Remove sandbags in 15 days, governor told

THE NATION

Plodprasob insist govt has right to oversee city admin

BANGKOK: -- The row over sandbags between Democrats and Pheu Thai Party raged on yesterday, with the Science Minister issuing an ultimatum for the city governor to remove the bags from Bangkok drainage canals within 15 days.

Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee threatened that if Sukhumbhand Paribatra refused to remove the sandbags within 15 days, he would order ministry officials to remove them instead.

On Sunday, Pheu Thai MPs led reporters to look at sandbags placed in drainage pipes on Srinakarin Road, and on hearing about this Plodprasob cried foul, claiming that Bangkok officials under control of the Democrats were "causing more problems" for residents already suffering from heavy downpours.

Pheu Thai claims the sandbags are the main reason why canals are unable to drain rainwater fast enough.

However, Sukhumbhand and city officials say the sandbags stop water flowing back from canals and flooding roads. They say the BMA has been using this flood-prevention technique for years.

Plodprasob responded by saying the practice was unacceptable, as the technique was not used elsewhere and blocking drains with sandbags would not help prevent floods.

The minister challenged the governor - who faces an election early next year - to sue him for ordering the sandbags to be removed.

"I've studied the laws and believe the central government has the authority to manage flood-prevention measures in the capital as well," Plodprasob, who oversees the Water and Flood Management Commission (WFMC), said.

He said he would send an official note to city administrators demanding that they explain the sandbag flood-prevention technique in detail and disclose all locations where sandbags are being placed.

Sukhumbhand, meanwhile, responded to Plodprasob yesterday by saying the WFMC should be stepping up efforts to help flood victims elsewhere and leave the BMA to handle the city on its own.

The governor said the BMA had been using sandbags to block drainage pipes under Srinakarin Road for a while to prevent water from flowing back from the adjacent canal. He said this technique was also used in the Netherlands.

He said he did not have to comply with the WFMC order, adding that Plodprasob should have spoken to him in person instead of creating such a public uproar.

"I hereby declare that the technique is being used by the BMA's Drainage Department and has nothing to do with politics.

"Plodprasob should pay more attention to flood victims in Prachin Buri's Kabin Buri district who are suffering. I believe the sandbag technique would help alleviate the grievance of flood victims there."

Democrat Party spokesman Chavanond Intarakomalyasut said sandbags were being used to block water from Hua Mark Canal from flowing into Srinakarin Road because the water in the canal was at a level higher than the road.

He said sandbags were part of measures to push water into the Kaja Canal, which is linked to Saen Saeb Canal before it can be drained via a drainage tunnel.

Chavanond said the technique had prevented the road from flooding.

-- The Nation 2012-10-10

[Thai at Heart]

He said this technique was also used in the Netherlands.

I somehow don't think putting hand packed rice sacks full of sand is part of the Dutch flood management.

Now moving high points in drainage systems yes.

[MikeOboe57]

After showing off their incompetence in last year's flooding the PTP experts are again out in force. Their agenda is painfully obvious: Sabotage the BMA's water management to promote their candidate in the upcoming elections for Governor of Bangkok. The claim that you increase your chances of reelection by making living in your community more miserable may only sound logical to tinfoil hatters but PTP has never aimed for the educated.

Leading the charge is a man whose knowledge of water doesn't go beyond "you can drink it" and who invented the Thai "water-pushing machine".

[cloghead]

"Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee threatened that if Sukhumbhand Paribatra refused to remove the sandbags within 15 days, he would order ministry officials to remove them instead".

I'd pay big $$$ to watch actual "ministry officials" on their hands and knees removing sandbags from the sewers. That would indeed be a sight to behold...

[moe666]

Where are the defenders of the downtrodden to defend this interference in the cities flood management.

[Soutpeel]

"Science Minister Plodprasob Surassawadee threatened that if Sukhumbhand Paribatra refused to remove the sandbags within 15 days, he would order ministry officials to remove them instead".

I'd pay big $$$ to watch actual "ministry officials" on their hands and knees removing sandbags from the sewers. That would indeed be a sight to behold...

Sure they would feel right at home in a sewer as one suspects thats were a lot of them crawled out of in the first place, let them do it and if everything does go to r*t sh*t, accountability only sits in one persons hands

[cloghead]

+1...

[maidu]

What a strange string of events. For starters, all drainage aparatus in the Bangkok region is essentially flat, because there are no slopes to work with. In the big picture of things, Bangkok should be abandoned, and a more sensible location should be found, preferably comprising satellite cities. Thais don't need to lump all their city stuff in to one giant location, particularly if that site is a flood plain which is sinking an average of 10 cm/year and seas are rising (nearly a cm in 20 years on average).

If you have a truck with square wheels, you could probably bumble on slowly down the road a short distance. At some point though, you'd be smart to change to round wheels - the sooner the better.

[noitom]

He say, she say, they all say, and he is saying again, and yet another he is still staying. "Sandbagging" used to be a term that we used in the military to denote slacking off, pretending to work, sidestepping duty. It seems that the Thais are always sandbagging. So this ancient military term has redeeming utility in the Thai milieux.

[rubl]

He said this technique was also used in the Netherlands.

I somehow don't think putting hand packed rice sacks full of sand is part of the Dutch flood management.

Now moving high points in drainage systems yes.

In the Netherlands where water has to be drained from sometimes meters below sea level to above that, we have lots of pumps, multi-level 'draining' and 'if' systems are linked there would be some type of measure possible to 'block' a link temporarily. If you have levels you need to drain starting with the highest level first otherwise the water will simply overflow somewhere and flow back.

Handfilled sand sacks are used in cases of emergency only.

Maybe have a look at this for some more insight in

"CHALLENGES IN CREATING SUSTAINABLE URBAN POLDER IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, CASE STUDY: DEVELOPMENT OF PLUIT POLDER, JAKARTA"

http://greenimpactin...polder-jakarta/

An a bit on polder drainage, powered drainage

http://www.cruquiusm...e/drainage.html

[Curt1591]

So, to fend off the possibility of water coming in from a reoccurrence of a flood that hadn't happened in over 50 years, they decided to plug up the drainage.

It's far more likely that drainage from the streets would be needed more than protection from backwash from the river and canals? After all, that is their purpose!

Edited October 10, 2012 by Curt1591

[Thai at Heart]

He said this technique was also used in the Netherlands.

I somehow don't think putting hand packed rice sacks full of sand is part of the Dutch flood management.

Now moving high points in drainage systems yes.

In the Netherlands where water has to be drained from sometimes meters below sea level to above that, we have lots of pumps, multi-level 'draining' and 'if' systems are linked there would be some type of measure possible to 'block' a link temporarily. If you have levels you need to drain starting with the highest level first otherwise the water will simply overflow somewhere and flow back.

Handfilled sand sacks are used in cases of emergency only.

Maybe have a look at this for some more insight in

"CHALLENGES IN CREATING SUSTAINABLE URBAN POLDER IN DEVELOPING COUNTRIES, CASE STUDY: DEVELOPMENT OF PLUIT POLDER, JAKARTA"

http://greenimpactin...polder-jakarta/

An a bit on polder drainage, powered drainage

http://www.cruquiusm...e/drainage.html

Well that was my point, I somehow doubt the Dutch drainage system has to rely on plastic sacks as a general means of management.

[Thai at Heart]

So, to fend off the possibility of water coming in from a reoccurrence of a flood that hadn't happened in over 50 years, they decided to plug up the drainage.

It's far more likely that drainage from the streets would be needed more than protection from backwash from the river and canals? After all, that is their purpose!

Indeed, these are probably remnants of emergency provisions from last year, which would tend to prove rather conclusively that the BMA didn't get off it's backside and do very much at all to clean the drains. Leaving them in place from last year is rather stupid. Now if they claimed to have mapped the entire system from new, got laser guided levels across the entire system and these are intended "weirs" to help divert water from one place to another, maybe it would wash.

Of course, why they would use porous sacks that will wash more sand into the system over time is quite another issue. Does Thailand lack bricks and cement?

[asiawatcher]

Plod plodding along again, sticking his political nose into things he (obviously) knows nothing about. I hope the BMA ignores him and let's the ubiquitous 'officials' do their thing, but as we are nearing the end of the wet season, and there will be no evidence of this folly to rub Plods scientific nose in it, this is again all huff and puff due to elections.

Edited October 10, 2012 by asiawatcher

[Curt1591]

Why hasn't Thaksin been blamed yet? Are you guys still asleep?

[Thai at Heart]

Plod plodding along again, sticking his political nose into things he (obviously) knows nothing about. I hope the BMA ignores him and let's the ubiquitous 'officials' do their thing, but as we are nearing the end of the wet season, and there will be no evidence of this folly to rub Plods scientific nose in it, this is again all huff and puff due to elections.

Does the BMA have a unified management of all the drains in the capital, or is it down to each individual district/tessaban to do as best they can?

[jonclark]

Ahh so we can take from this that the PTP election campaign for Bangkok governor has begun. And from this initial salvo we can conclude that it is based on, mud- slinging and the discrediting of opposition as opposed to a coherent and sensible policy - perhaps that's because Bangkok people are less easily bought and aren't interested in a cheap arsed tablet or rice. Which seems to be the fundamental idea underpinning National government polict

[hellodolly]

"I've studied the laws and believe the central government has the authority to manage flood-prevention measures in the capital as well," Plodprasob, who oversees the Water and Flood Management Commission (WFMC), said."

As well as what?

[slapout]

I think it is interesting to see how the various elected/appointed government officials issue orders to others, who do not have any responsibility to follow those orders. I doubt any of those 'plod' is threatening work for him nor does he sign their paycheck.

If there is a 'chain of command' it seems to be ignored by everyone from the top of the pile, to the bottom. The same applies to job description for various positions. When the Thai's tell us farang, 'you do not understand' I have to agree, in that we do not understand their mangament thinking, action, etc as displayed by the government, and they seem to ignore what does not meet with their personal approval/agreement.

[Soutpeel]

perhaps that's because Bangkok people are less easily bought and aren't interested in a cheap arsed tablet or rice. Which seems to be the fundamental idea underpinning National government polict

But I am sure their opinion could be swayed if they were promised a new BMW or Ferrari by the PTP..

[Farangdam]

Nice picture the boss pick up the garbage.......nice job siya.

[fstarbkk]

"Plodprasob responded by saying the practice was unacceptable, as the technique was not used elsewhere..."

Neither is pushing water down the river with boat propellers! So what was your point again, Mr. Plod?

Edited October 10, 2012 by fstarbkk

[hkt83100]

If you have a truck with square wheels, you could probably bumble on slowly down the road a short distance. At some point though, you'd be smart to change to round wheels - the sooner the better.

Another move might be to put on triangular wheels, this would give you one bump less per rotation.

[WilliaminBKK]

They must want the sand back in Pattaya for the beach.

[1weatherman]

In 15 days the rainy season will be over in Bangkok and the sandbags will still be there, but now drying out in the cooler and dry season air. Meanwhile back at the ranch....

[IMA_FARANG]

I am quite familiar with why in certain areas of Bangkok sandbags were placed in or on "drains" last November.

In the Sois around my area the "drainage" for storm water is perhaps 10 to 15 cm (at best) above the high water level of "normal" canal peak levels.

So the authorities built a sandbag barrier to "control" the water levrl in those canals.

Eventually the water inside those canals with barrier walls reached 20 t0 30 cm over "normal" high flood level.

At that point the canal, it's level was then between maybe 20 to 30 cm OVER the storm drains level, began to flow back into the drains.

Eventually floodwater began flowing UP into our Soi from the canals.....the siphon effect....caused by the level being higher in the canals than our Soi.

When that started the local moo bahn committie got work crews together and they put wood barriers held down by sandbags on top of and into the drains....to stop the floodwater from coming out of the drains and flooding the Soi.

Makes perfect sense if you follow the sequence of events.

I happened to have built a approximately 30 cm sandbag barrier around my house....so all the Soi did flood....but the water never actually got into my house.

P.S. In this Soi, probably not all however, the moo bahn committie also removed our sandbags and wood blocks after the floods subsided.

Edited October 10, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[tragickingdom]

Sukhumbhand must have learned at school that the sea streams it water up to the rivers in land. Just relieve the idiot from his post.

[monkeycountry]

"He (Science Minister Plodprasob) said he would send an official note to city administrators demanding that they explain the sandbag flood-prevention technique in detail and disclose all locations where sandbags are being placed."

Perhaps he can in turn explain the "water pushing machines" in detail amd disclose all locations where they have been placed?

As always not a single qualified engineer is involved, just politicians without any relevant education whatsoever :-D

[khunken]

Sukhumbhand must have learned at school that the sea streams it water up to the rivers in land. Just relieve the idiot from his post.

The idiot who badly needs booting out is Plodprasop. The BMA are doing their job - not perfectly, but far more competently that Plod's mob.

You seem to like trolling.

[maidu]

Interesting to note that the locals are not 'up in arms' about it. In every case, where locals feel they're getting a bad deal (getting flooded so others, higher up the social ladder, can remain dry), they vociferously let their feelings be known. Looking at this scenario and knowing how wrong Plodprasop usually is about things, I would venture that the Bkk administration is doing a reasonably good job. They're at the vanguard of the situation. PT and us on Thaivisa are outside observers.

It also smells a lot like politics, with PT trying to do all they can to try and make the Bkk administration look inept.