Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)

[Tolley]

There are plenty of people that arent fat that dont exercise much so I dont think people should be using this as an excuse.

If you eat the right kind of foods then even if you are inactive you can still maintain a healthy body weight.

I wont buy into the happiness and weight debate because it is hard to defiine what happiness is and you never really know what is going on in someone elses head anyway. So I wont make assumptions about anyone else.

Personally I could be happy if i was a bit overweight but if it started affecting my lifestyle negatively then I think it would become an issue.

I like this post because you are not going to judge others.

I like that you do something about it if it would adversely affect your lifestyle.

I didn't understand the first sentence "There are plenty of people that arent fat that dont exercise much so I dont think people should be using this as an excuse."

That was in response to previous posts about how some people arent that active due to injury or illness etc. and that is the reason why they were overweight.

Obviously it is harder to keep a healthy body weight if you arent very active but many people still manage to do it.

Edited November 5, 2012 by Tolley

[tropo]

Being fit and being slim contribute a lot to my state of contentment ,however there seems to me to be a critical age when your susceptibility to gain weight increases.

Yes, there is a critical period in a person's life when weight gain becomes easier. The main contributor to that is insulin resistance increasing with age. This causes fat to be packed on at an increasing rate. Low testosterone and growth hormone in combination with high estrogen also makes the going tougher as one ages.

If one is aware of these problems, they can be compensated for. I find holding low bodyfat at age 53 easy now that I've solved the puzzle (as far as my body is concerned). There's no reason why I can't maintain into my 60's and 70's.

Edited November 5, 2012 by tropo

[tropo]

Only a very few people on TVF know me personally and they are people I am willing to listen to. As for the others like Tropo who is on my ignore list I simply don't like armchair doctors, psychiatrists, psychologist who say that because I fit a profile I must therefore be fat, sick, lame, lazy, unhappy or whatever.

LOL. If Tropo is on your ignore list you probably won't read this, but obviously you can't handle Tropo because he doesn't buy into your story. You're trying to convince everyone you're happy being fat because you failed to become slim. Tropo calls you out so you put him on your ignore list and then tell everyone about it.

That's hilarious.

It would be better you stop pretending you're happy and do something about it.

[Tolley]

Being fit and being slim contribute a lot to my state of contentment ,however there seems to me to be a critical age when your susceptibility to gain weight increases.

Yes, there is a critical period in a person's life when weight gain becomes easier. The main contributor to that is insulin resistance increasing with age. This causes fat to be packed on at an increasing rate. Low testosterone and growth hormone in combination with high estrogen also makes the going tougher as one ages.

If one is aware of these problems, they can be compensated for. I find holding low bodyfat at age 53 easy now that I've solved the puzzle (as far as my body is concerned). There's no reason why I can't maintain into my 60's and 70's.

I think I remember you posting before that you are taking T supplements.

That would be a big factor in making it easier to keep body fat down I would think.

[NoshowJones]

@tropo, i have had my down times too. During the flooding i really reverted back to all my bad habits. The stress and the lack of good food.. nothing to do and alcohol. Really was my downfall. But yes i am determined to finaly get a pair of good abs. It has never happened but now i feel im getting closer each month.

In november / december when my parents are there it will be extra hard to control my food intake as i will be on a holiday. So i will see, but i will be in the ocean a lot too. Maybe it helps a bit if i can make sure i dont eat too much.

Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday.

But yes im one of those guys that has to count his calories to make progress, hard to loose fat for me. Others doing the same would have lost much more then me.

Anyway buying a cybex arc trainer would be nice but like you its a dream as i cant afford it.

What is a cybex arc trainer? and how much? Where can you buy?

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

@tropo, i have had my down times too. During the flooding i really reverted back to all my bad habits. The stress and the lack of good food.. nothing to do and alcohol. Really was my downfall. But yes i am determined to finaly get a pair of good abs. It has never happened but now i feel im getting closer each month.

In november / december when my parents are there it will be extra hard to control my food intake as i will be on a holiday. So i will see, but i will be in the ocean a lot too. Maybe it helps a bit if i can make sure i dont eat too much.

Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday.

But yes im one of those guys that has to count his calories to make progress, hard to loose fat for me. Others doing the same would have lost much more then me.

Anyway buying a cybex arc trainer would be nice but like you its a dream as i cant afford it.

What is a cybex arc trainer? and how much? Where can you buy?

" Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday."

True but it is almost impossible to control your food intake if you have a wife or girlfriend who makes you two eggs rather than one or two sausages instead of one because she loves you and thinks the obvious expression of that love is to make more rather than less food for you to consume. I always lose weight when I am alone for a few weeks. Sticking to a dietary regime requires an iron discipline over a protracted period.

My belief is that having decided to change your ways and having worked out the detail, you start by briefing your partner and make sure she is signed up to the goals and understands all the details.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Rajab Al Zarahni

[robblok]

@tropo, i have had my down times too. During the flooding i really reverted back to all my bad habits. The stress and the lack of good food.. nothing to do and alcohol. Really was my downfall. But yes i am determined to finaly get a pair of good abs. It has never happened but now i feel im getting closer each month.

In november / december when my parents are there it will be extra hard to control my food intake as i will be on a holiday. So i will see, but i will be in the ocean a lot too. Maybe it helps a bit if i can make sure i dont eat too much.

Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday.

But yes im one of those guys that has to count his calories to make progress, hard to loose fat for me. Others doing the same would have lost much more then me.

Anyway buying a cybex arc trainer would be nice but like you its a dream as i cant afford it.

What is a cybex arc trainer? and how much? Where can you buy?

Cybex arc trainer he is talking about is a professional fitness equipment. You will have to import it starts at 5000$.

We (me and Tropo) both have a concept 2 model d rowing machine. Its one of the best cardio fitness equipments that you can buy. I imported mine from the USA and paid door to door incl taxes 56.000 baht. But its a thing you buy for a lifetime. You can even hook it up to a computer with a rowing program at 99$ but even without its a great machine. It was the best investment for my home gym cardio wise.

[robblok]

@tropo, i have had my down times too. During the flooding i really reverted back to all my bad habits. The stress and the lack of good food.. nothing to do and alcohol. Really was my downfall. But yes i am determined to finaly get a pair of good abs. It has never happened but now i feel im getting closer each month.

In november / december when my parents are there it will be extra hard to control my food intake as i will be on a holiday. So i will see, but i will be in the ocean a lot too. Maybe it helps a bit if i can make sure i dont eat too much.

Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday.

But yes im one of those guys that has to count his calories to make progress, hard to loose fat for me. Others doing the same would have lost much more then me.

Anyway buying a cybex arc trainer would be nice but like you its a dream as i cant afford it.

What is a cybex arc trainer? and how much? Where can you buy?

" Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday."

True but it is almost impossible to control your food intake if you have a wife or girlfriend who makes you two eggs rather than one or two sausages instead of one because she loves you and thinks the obvious expression of that love is to make more rather than less food for you to consume. I always lose weight when I am alone for a few weeks. Sticking to a dietary regime requires an iron discipline over a protracted period.

My belief is that having decided to change your ways and having worked out the detail, you start by briefing your partner and make sure she is signed up to the goals and understands all the details.

Sure your right.. but if she is your partner it should be easy to convey your feelings about this. It does not mean she has to diet, you cant force that upon anyone.

[cowslip]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

[robblok]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Ow god there we got the monkey hugger again. I still remember the wailing banshees in the vid.

You seriously have a problem with bodybuilders.. seems you have some insecurity problems. Dont worry its ok that your small and skinny or for just dont spew your insecurity problems to others.

[cowslip]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Ow god there we got the monkey hugger again. I still remember the wailing banshees in the vid.

You seriously have a problem with bodybuilders.. seems you have some insecurity problems. Dont worry its ok that your small and skinny or for just dont spew your insecurity problems to others.

i think that would be a classic case of "back-at-cha" wouldn't you say? - e.g. "Dont worry its ok that your small and skinny" now there's a revealing comment.

I note too that you feel the need to attack the messenger rather than the message?...many of these drugs can affect your mental processes and moods.

I'm not sure whether misogyny is a symptom, but you certainly seem to suffer from it

Edited November 6, 2012 by cowslip

[cowslip]

PS - General exercise will help you stay fit and live longer than you would without it. Intense exercise and body building on top of that doesn't make the slightest difference, in fact it can be quite detrimental.

Edited November 6, 2012 by cowslip

[robblok]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Ow god there we got the monkey hugger again. I still remember the wailing banshees in the vid.

You seriously have a problem with bodybuilders.. seems you have some insecurity problems. Dont worry its ok that your small and skinny or for just dont spew your insecurity problems to others.

i think that would be a classic case of "back-at-cha" wouldn't you say? - e.g. "Dont worry its ok that your small and skinny" now there's a revealing comment.

I note too that you feel the need to attack the messenger rather than the message?...many of these drugs can affect your mental processes and moods.

No need to attack you that much you made yourself ridiculous before and you will do it again. On this thread you got your ass handed to you and the monkey thread with the wailing banshees too. So im not too worried about it.

You start posing about clinics and fake stuff, totally not relevant here. That is your thing going off track.. anyway have fun.

[robblok]

PS - Exercise will help you stay fit and live longer than you would without it. Intense exercise and body building doesn't make the slightest difference

Did i say I something like that, i always advise people to do a sport they like. As its important to keep it up and easier to do something you like. I say that in all the threads

But you and your fight against bodybuilders because of your insecurities are starting to get boring.

[cowslip]

"

Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)"

who's off track????

[robblok]

"

Is Being Fat A Choice (If There Is No Underlying Medical Reason)"

who's off track????

The guy posting a link about fake clinics. That being you.

[eek]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Sorry Cowslip, but i too am wondering about the relevance of what you posted. Is it in direct response to something in particular? (the thread is long, so im not sure).

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

[laislica]

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

Portion size is important.

I read that everyone on the planet has a portion example which is exactly right for them.

If you look at the palm of your hand, that is the size of a portion and the thickness of your palm defines the portion correctly for you.

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

Portion size is important.

I read that everyone on the planet has a portion example which is exactly right for them.

If you look at the palm of your hand, that is the size of a portion and the thickness of your palm defines the portion correctly for you.

Interesting, I haven't heard that before. If I serve up my own portions of food I just instinctively know what is right but someone who loves you and serves up the portions often inclines towards the belief that the more I give you is reflective of the more I love you!

[robblok]

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

You need a hobby, i notice when i got too much time on my hand i either spend too much or like you said want to eat bad stuff.

Since i stopped drinking alcohol weight loss was easier but drinking was fun too. It all depends what you think is important and what your willing to do.

I really weigh my food so i get exactly what i need. But for many that is just one step to far. For me its easy because i do all the cooking. Of course when i go and eat out im not that picky but then i just make the right food choices.

Actually one of my favorite meals is one that i prepare myself in the afternoon or morning. 250 grams of yoghurt (you can get 400-500 gram portions) 40 grams of musli (unsweatend) 14 grams of flaxseed oil and a scoop of protein powder, and 100 grams (or more) of frozen blueberries (get those at the makro)

[Huayrat]

Luckily the nearest mcdonalds is 90 minutes away as id be huge if we had 1 in my city

[Rajab Al Zarahni]

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

You need a hobby, i notice when i got too much time on my hand i either spend too much or like you said want to eat bad stuff.

Since i stopped drinking alcohol weight loss was easier but drinking was fun too. It all depends what you think is important and what your willing to do.

I really weigh my food so i get exactly what i need. But for many that is just one step to far. For me its easy because i do all the cooking. Of course when i go and eat out im not that picky but then i just make the right food choices.

Actually one of my favorite meals is one that i prepare myself in the afternoon or morning. 250 grams of yoghurt (you can get 400-500 gram portions) 40 grams of musli (unsweatend) 14 grams of flaxseed oil and a scoop of protein powder, and 100 grams (or more) of frozen blueberries (get those at the makro)

Possum:

Thanks for your PM.

If you cook your own food you have control of the ingredients and that's a good start. You also burn off some calories merely as a consequence of the activity. Refraining from alcohol consumption generally makes a big difference in weight control.

Another problem is who puts the portions on the plate. Healthy home cooked food is fine providing you don't eat loads of it!

Finally there is the problem of not having enough to do to keep busy. There is a problem frequently experienced by the recently retired.

Going shopping is a leisure activity that often involves buying food that you don't need. Having bought it you feel guilty if you don't eat it so you end up eating more to prevent it being wasted.

You need a hobby, i notice when i got too much time on my hand i either spend too much or like you said want to eat bad stuff.

Since i stopped drinking alcohol weight loss was easier but drinking was fun too. It all depends what you think is important and what your willing to do.

I really weigh my food so i get exactly what i need. But for many that is just one step to far. For me its easy because i do all the cooking. Of course when i go and eat out im not that picky but then i just make the right food choices.

Actually one of my favorite meals is one that i prepare myself in the afternoon or morning. 250 grams of yoghurt (you can get 400-500 gram portions) 40 grams of musli (unsweatend) 14 grams of flaxseed oil and a scoop of protein powder, and 100 grams (or more) of frozen blueberries (get those at the makro)

"It all depends what you think is important"

Absolutely, I agree and what a miserable life it would be without a beer or a glass of wine but if you were to make it your foremost priority to get down to your target weight and get reasonably fit, I suspect most people could do it inside 3 months. What it needs is the iron discipline to stick to a diet planned for quantity and content, a daily exercise regime and the motivation and persistence to allow nothing whatsoever to make you deviate from the plan.

[robblok]

"It all depends what you think is important"

Absolutely, I agree and what a miserable life it would be without a beer or a glass of wine but if you were to make it your foremost priority to get down to your target weight and get reasonably fit, I suspect most people could do it inside 3 months. What it needs is the iron discipline to stick to a diet planned for quantity and content, a daily exercise regime and the motivation and persistence to allow nothing whatsoever to make you deviate from the plan.

I'm not so sure it can be done in 3 months. I went from 107 (still no beer belly) to 91 and added 5 kg of muscle in around 10 months. Now i am at a point where i have well defined muscles and the beginning of a 6 pack. I want to loose an other 3-4 kg but i doubt i can do it in 3 months. I have good discipline workout a lot. But weigh loss is not that easy. At least not if you want to get though certain limits.

At first you might be able to loose 4 kg a moth (maybe even more depending how much your overweight) But it gets harder all the time. Best thing is to give yourself a bit of time. I have build up my ability to burn more calories by rowing. The more my stamina goes up the more i can do in a certain time frame. You can't just go all out at it.. you need to build up stuff.

I have tried it a few times all out usually you overdo it that much that you stop or you hit a wall in weight loss and loose all motivation.

I do think i can let go a bit once i am where i want to go. For me its a test if i can get there because even when i was young i never got there. Now i got more knowledge but an older body .. too bad i could not put my knowledge back in my young body (actually not that old)

I am lucky that i never acquired a taste for beer.. i drink to get drunk not for taste. If i want something nice ill drink Florida's natural red grapefruit juice. I still go to sizzler and enjoy the food there. Alcohol is just something that really stops everything.

It is said (not sure how true it is) that you need to eat a bit more once in a while they call it carb cycling. To keep your body on its toes and to not let it get used to a caloric deficit. How true it is I don't know but it is sure good to sometimes eat a lot more.

I enjoy my Oishy bufet too.. with loads of salmon, a good food program does not mean you can't eat anything anymore. It just means make good choices, choose Oishy over Mc Donalds. Enjoy the salad bar at sizzler (try to be careful with the salad dressing) Take a nice piece of beef as a main course.

Its not all bad and if you give yourself more time you can still let go once in a while. Just avoid the real bad things. I doubt a glass of wine would do me much harm. If you eat right 80% of the time its good. Just don't pig out too much in that other 20%.

I also believe that exercise is important to retain muscle while dieting and you might even burn some extra calories. Even if that is not the case exercise is still good for health.

Some people seem to think i promote bodybuilding as the ultimate weight loss solution. I don't, if you do sports you should do something you like. Its better to do something that MIGHT be less effective but for a long time. Then to go all out and stop after a few weeks.

I always hated cardio, got crazy on the bike (boring), in the end i bought a rowing machine and its perfect for a numbers man like me (accountant). Love watching my heart rate speed per 500 meters.. Racing myself in a previous run stuff like that. I can even do HITT on it. all in all it was one of my better investments. But if you guys love playing batminton (i like that too) then by all means do so.

If you cant do that because of physical problems try swimming also great.

My advice for anyone wanting to loose weight first make some changes. If you see it works and you like it make more changes. Don't go all out because its an effort you have to keep up. You cant loose all your weight and then go back to drinking beer like before because it will come back.

Also do it for yourself don't do it because of how others view you. Just my few cents. I am real motivated and like to help people out. I talk about training with others so they keep motivated too. That is part of my posts here helping others to find motivation or to keep them motivated.

[tropo]

@tropo, i have had my down times too. During the flooding i really reverted back to all my bad habits. The stress and the lack of good food.. nothing to do and alcohol. Really was my downfall. But yes i am determined to finaly get a pair of good abs. It has never happened but now i feel im getting closer each month.

In november / december when my parents are there it will be extra hard to control my food intake as i will be on a holiday. So i will see, but i will be in the ocean a lot too. Maybe it helps a bit if i can make sure i dont eat too much.

Its relatively easy to control food intake if you cook yourself and don't eat out too much. Its a different ball game when your on a holliday.

But yes im one of those guys that has to count his calories to make progress, hard to loose fat for me. Others doing the same would have lost much more then me.

Anyway buying a cybex arc trainer would be nice but like you its a dream as i cant afford it.

What is a cybex arc trainer? and how much? Where can you buy?

IMO, and from my experience it's the ultimate cardio machine. I know where you can buy a used one for 120,000 baht.

http://www.cybexintl.com/products/cross-trainers.aspx

Definitely the total body model is the one to go for.

[tropo]

two eggs rather than one or two sausages instead of one because she loves you

My breakfast usually consists of 5 eggs, and that's only a part of it. You can actually lose weight on the eggs if you cut out the carbs like toast that you may also consume along with the eggs.

[tropo]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Can you please get lost. We've had more than enough of your nonsense.

[cowslip]

5 eggs? - I would check your cholesterol levels!

Edited November 7, 2012 by cowslip

[cowslip]

There's a load of old tosh and quackery being spouted on this thread .....it would seem that many have been "blinded by pseudo-science".

This of course is an industry that flourishes in Thailand as in the thread below but also under the wing of apparently "legit" institutions.

I would seriously consult with a doctor from outside Thailand before engaging on ANY weight training, body-building or weight-loss program over here.

http://www.thaivisa....ne#entry5775588

Can you please get lost. We've had more than enough of your nonsense.

someone's in denial.

[tropo]

5 eggs? - I would check your cholesterol levels!

(I was waiting for the obligatory comment about cholesterol levels. Thanks for obliging and thanks for your concern)

That was only for breakfast dude. My daily total of eggs is usually about 8 - 10. Yesterday I had 13.

I know exactly what my cholesterol levels are as I regularly have them checked along with many other things.

My most recent test:

Total cholesterol: 154 mg/dl (normal 150 - 200)

HDL: 44 mg/dl (normal more than 40)

LDL: 94 mg/dl (normal less than 130)

Triglyceride: 111 mg/dl (normal 30 - 150)

Chol: HDL ratio: 3.7 (normal less than 4.5)

LDL: HDL ratio 2.2 (normal less than 3.0)

Get with the times baby. Get into those eggs.

Edited November 7, 2012 by tropo