Chiang Mai Support Group

[chiang mai]

I recently came across Lanna Care Net which is, "a group of people who help ageing foreigners live safe and healthy lives in Chiang Mai and surrounding areas. We do this by providing advice and practical assistance where necessary". Their web site is here:

http://www.lannacarenet.org/

Perhaps of value to many at some point in the future hence I'm now simply making you aware.

[uptheos]

I believe Nancy L has been talking about this on the forum for some time and knows quite a bit about the organisation. I'm sure Nancy would be willing to answer any queries that she is able.

Seems like a good organisation, well worth noting.

[cmsally]

Would be interesting to know the kind of numbers of people needing support. Presumably if this group has been formed there is quite a need (or an anticipated need) based on demographics.

[Beetlejuice]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

[hellodolly]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

Keep looking you will always find doom and gloom.

[chiang mai]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

A few moments spent looking at their web site would answer all your questions, if still in doubt a few more minutes to Google the name of the group and you'll see lots of supportive data that recommends the group and their activities, if still not satisifed best you steer clear, But hey, thanks for your input regardless, it's always nice when a true sceptic and conspirarcy theorist adds a different dimension to what every one else regards as simple reason.

[elektrified]

He's negative about everything.

But to give credence to the organization and for elderly people looking to deal with it to feel more comfortable, perhaps they should include more than a mobile phone number and a gmail account for contacts don't you think?? I mean they are talking about taking over the finances of elderly people with dementia if I understand one of the "case studies" properly. Certainly the names of the principle(s) of the organization, a street address and a land-line telephone number would be in order IMHO.

[Beetlejuice]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

A few moments spent looking at their web site would answer all your questions, if still in doubt a few more minutes to Google the name of the group and you'll see lots of supportive data that recommends the group and their activities, if still not satisifed best you steer clear, But hey, thanks for your input regardless, it's always nice when a true sceptic and conspirarcy theorist adds a different dimension to what every one else regards as simple reason.

In respect, the said website does not give answers to all the questions people may have, far from it in fact, and if in the case of my nearest and dearest elderly relatives or perhaps for myself who maybe in need of profession assistance in the future, I would certainly hope and expect them or myself to be placed in the care of trusted, caring and fully qualified professional staff of a credible establishment.

These elderly people for several reasons are most vulnerable, as there maybe assets involved and more importantly their health and welfare.

If it were my relative, like my beloved 91 year old Dad for example, darn right I’m going to ask questions and would want to know a whole lot more than just the brief details of what’s published on the said website before handing him over to the mercy of complete strangers, regarding the owners, staff and the credibility of that establishment, such as credentials and qualifications. This pertains whether in Thailand or whether back in the States, the UK or in Timbuktu.

And what about the elderly ex-pats that have no relatives living alone here? Surely any organisation that takes charge of them in their twilight years has to be vetted first? Otherwise they could become ripe for exploitation by some unscrupulous people.

I`m not trying to discredit anyone, only saying that I treat these outfits with caution until I become convinced with actual facts.

I do thank you and grateful that you have passed on this information to make us all aware, but you say; [“if still not satisfied best you steer clear”]. That’s an odd comment from someone who is just passing on informing regarding this outfit as if you’re taking my comments as personal. . Do you have associations with this Lanna Care Net?

[chiang mai]

He's negative about everything.

But to give credence to the organization and for elderly people looking to deal with it to feel more comfortable, perhaps they should include more than a mobile phone number and a gmail account for contacts don't you think?? I mean they are talking about taking over the finances of elderly people with dementia if I understand one of the "case studies" properly. Certainly the names of the principle(s) of the organization, a street address and a land-line telephone number would be in order IMHO.

Yes I agree, when it gets to the point of handing over financial control then it's a whole diffierent ballgame, but I don't believe that level of support is what the group is aimed at primarily and I suspect that only a very small percentage of people would fall into that category.

[chiang mai]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

A few moments spent looking at their web site would answer all your questions, if still in doubt a few more minutes to Google the name of the group and you'll see lots of supportive data that recommends the group and their activities, if still not satisifed best you steer clear, But hey, thanks for your input regardless, it's always nice when a true sceptic and conspirarcy theorist adds a different dimension to what every one else regards as simple reason.

. Do you have associations with this Lanna Care Net?

No I do not, I had not heard of them until one of the foreign customer service reps at Rajavej Hospital recommended them to me and passed me their details, they have no relationship with TV except they now share the "list of doctors" in order to make the information available to as many people who might need it as possible. I know this might sound odd and strange to you but there are people out there that are willing to do things for other people for free, just in order to help.

The "steer clear" reference was made since you appear not to want to take these support functions at face value and if after digging a little bit you still don't trust them, you are probably a sceptic for whom such things are best avoided. And whilst none of any of this is "personal", I have to admit to being disappointed that someone would raise the sort of doubt you have raised, without any catalyst to do so and in the absence of any prompt of negative reports from any source, simply because you want to, I find it all very unhelpful and serving no useful purpose. One wonders if you would query the intentions of an animal rescue shelter as perhaps being a front for culinary lovers of dog meat or the intentions of a child rescue charity as really having a sinister purpose and an ulterior motive!

[LawrenceChee]

To be a skeptic...just learn to trust there are good intention people around...with all of your questions beetle I wonder if you ever can live anywhere happily...who knows what the som tum lady is adding to your salad, of the crew behind the counter for your fav cup of coffee....

stop worrying and enjoy life...we came to CM for exactly that !

[NancyL]

Thank you, Chiang Mai for bringing our little organization to everyone's attention and also, thank you Beetlejuice and others for raising some good questions.

Our group was founded by Ben Svasti Thompson, the Hon. British Consul and Andrew Veprek, the former American Consul. Now Mark Carlson is in that role and is equally "supportive", but that's not "supportive" in the sense of providing funds. We don't have a street address or landline because, so far, our activities have been funded primarily with the funds of the people providing the assistance. Several clients have given donations (we never ask for donations) and those funds have been used to print "In Case of Emergency" cards which are available at all the foreign consulates, many restaurants and bars and at the meetings of Expats Club. If you like some, let me know. An example is on our website.

Usually a client is referred to us by a consulate or the social worker at a hospital. People in need sometimes call on their own, too. LCN people visit the English-speaking residents of McKean Hospital/Dok Kaew Gardens twice weekly. We also visit some clients at home. The people who do that are retired doctors, nurses, occupational therapists, etc. We do not handle client money directly.

I'm the person in the organization who knows my way around Thai banks and the local Immigration office. I'll help someone once to obtain a medical or retirement visa extension, but if it's evident they'll need long-term help, then it's time for a paid visa agent to take over their case. My bank dealings have been very short term -- for example helping next of kin to close local bank accounts when they come to take a loved one back to their home country. Also, I've helped people develop budgets and worked out payment plans for medical bills. Again, I'm not handling the client's money. The closest I've come to that is the few times I've obtained funds from a client's bank account to pay their medical bills. The check is always made out to the hospital, not me.

We have a fund-rasing event planned on 24 November, in conjunction with the Royal British Legion. It isn't fair to expect our members to pay for our website domain, telephone time, printing costs, etc, long term. We hope to raise an excess above our modest needs. (remember--no street address, paid staff, land line!). Any extra funds will be donated to McKean Rehabilitian Center which has been most generous in accepting charity cases of elderly expats who find them in need of medical care and unable to return to their home country.

Why do we do it? Well, someday we may find ourselves in need of these services. We love it here and want to continue to be welcomed by the Thai people. So, it's a chance for us to help the Thai people by taking caring of our own, so we don't create a burden for Thailand.

[Beetlejuice]

Thank you Nancy.

Has your group ever considered becoming a registered charity? Which is officially recognised by the various consulates and the Thai authorities for the issuing of work permits and where volunteers plus paid assistants and specialists in the field would be vetted for their competence regarding this sort of work? Plus fund raising as a charity would be a significant way that a non-profit organization may obtain it`s money, unless of course any organisation intends to become a business and run as a company, than the same would not apply.

[hellodolly]

Thank you Nancy.

Has your group ever considered becoming a registered charity? Which is officially recognised by the various consulates and the Thai authorities for the issuing of work permits and where volunteers plus paid assistants and specialists in the field would be vetted for their competence regarding this sort of work? Plus fund raising as a charity would be a significant way that a non-profit organization may obtain it`s money, unless of course any organisation intends to become a business and run as a company, than the same would not apply.

Considering there was two consulates involved setting it up I would think they had looked at that. These are just people trying to help people they are not looking for a full time job.

[Beetlejuice]

Thank you Nancy.

Has your group ever considered becoming a registered charity? Which is officially recognised by the various consulates and the Thai authorities for the issuing of work permits and where volunteers plus paid assistants and specialists in the field would be vetted for their competence regarding this sort of work? Plus fund raising as a charity would be a significant way that a non-profit organization may obtain it`s money, unless of course any organisation intends to become a business and run as a company, than the same would not apply.

Considering there was two consulates involved setting it up I would think they had looked at that. These are just people trying to help people they are not looking for a full time job.

Voluntary workers or helpers still requires a work permit and the Lanna Care Net and our good Nancy may have all the good intentions of helping those who require assistance, but by not having these outfits registered and regulated by some authority means that in the future there could be other such groups that are created by unscrupulous con people whose intentions are not so honourable and would prey on many vulnerable elderly ex-pats placing them at the mercies of those that would scam them, seeing them as fair game, especially considering the increasing numbers of elderly retirees that are moving to Thailand year by year. With what or whoever one chooses to place trust with their welfare at face value in later life is entirely up to their own risk and discretion, as is with most things we do here in Thailand and the reason I am much more cautious here than I would be in my home country.

[chiang mai]

Thank you Nancy.

Has your group ever considered becoming a registered charity? Which is officially recognised by the various consulates and the Thai authorities for the issuing of work permits and where volunteers plus paid assistants and specialists in the field would be vetted for their competence regarding this sort of work? Plus fund raising as a charity would be a significant way that a non-profit organization may obtain it`s money, unless of course any organisation intends to become a business and run as a company, than the same would not apply.

Considering there was two consulates involved setting it up I would think they had looked at that. These are just people trying to help people they are not looking for a full time job.

but by not having these outfits registered and regulated by some authority means that in the future there could be other such groups that are created by unscrupulous con people whose intentions are not so honourable and would prey on many vulnerable elderly ex-pats placing them at the mercies of those that would scam them, seeing them as fair game,

I put it to you that by registering such groups and making them authorised legal bodies it would be a potential license to legitimise scamming, anyone could estbalish such a group and begin to charge fees as they choose. Better I think that it operates as is, just under the radar but with the linkage to current and past embassy officials.

As for work permits, I wonder if all foriegn representatives of Medicine Sans Fronteirs, Greenpeace, Oxfam, the Red Cross et al, all have work permits in order to operate in Thailand or whether there is a work around, it would seem inhumane and unjust if such bodies were dissallowed from operating simply because of beaurocracy, whilst LC is a much smaller version of those organisations the operating model and principles are very similar.

[NancyL]

Yes, the entire issue of organizational structure was carefully considered, with consulatations with some important Thai government officials, in the early months of the organization. It is possible to get "temporary" permission for specific activities from the local labor dept and that's in the works for the 24 November charity fund raising fair at JJ Market.

As to the other activities, like the weekly visits to shut-ins, well that's really not much different than the activities of say, the local Alcoholics Anonymous groups, where they come together to help each other. Also, we're very careful not to do any work that a Thai person could be paid to do. For example, we've had to turn away well-meaning expats who love doing home improvement projects and want to build wheelchair ramps, modify bathrooms, etc for handicapped expats. Clearly, that's work that a Thai person could be paid to do. The closest we'd come to being involved in a project like that is for an LCN member to develop plans and supervise the work of the Thai contractor.

[philw]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

Keep looking you will always find doom and gloom.

Well said Dolly.

[LawrenceChee]

Fully agree Nancy ...when the intention is just to help, all the registration and all the work may sometimes defeat the entire purpose of the intent.

I support your well meaning intents....at times people just need a listening ear and simple help ...that is more meaningful than funds and financial assistance.

What a great way to contribute...when I have more time after the business runs, it's my intention to return to CM on a full time basis and start up a business school for hospitality professionals so that I can share my experience for free. It's a great way to give back to the CM people who have over the years I have been here more than welcome me to their land and homes.

[Beetlejuice]

Interesting.

My question is: Is this all for free or just another farang money making scheme? Because no where on the site does it mention whether there are fees involved or is a completely free service run by volunteers, so therefore I am suspicious.

Also, if this is a fee-paying service, is the staff fully qualified to provide advice and practical assistance where necessary as mentioned on their website? Plus I have not been able to find a single name of anyone linking to this organisation.

I would certainly want to know a lot more regarding the Lanna Care net before considering ever placing myself in their hands if the need be.

Keep looking you will always find doom and gloom.

Well said Dolly.

Nothing to do with doom and gloom, it`s to do with common sense.

If the Lanna Care Net is operating via it`s website, word of mouth and recommendations without the appropriate work permits or without being officially registered as a non profit or profit making business company or charity status, especially where donations are involved, than it is not legal here in Thailand. Assisting people via an organisation and helping people such as neighbors or friends out of kindness are completely different scenarios.

It makes no difference whether the work involves farang related issues or who recommends the organisation, work permits and registration are still required, otherwise it`s as I have described in my previous post, elderly trusting ex-pats could be at risk of exploitation by unscrupulous people of other help groups which may form in the future.

But this is only my observation of the situation, which means nothing, like it or lump it, and it`s not me that has to be convinced and sold on the idea as to the credibility and safety of such unofficial clubs/help groups and those that wish to trust or place the welfare of others on the integrity of such groups, do so at their own risk and discretion.

[chiang mai]

I am appalled that BJ has chosen to make so much mileage out of this topic and to raise the suspicion of doubt without cause or obvious reason, the very fact that this debate now exists will prove detrimental to the cause simply because it has created suspicion where non was deserved. And the final message delivered is that we should get involved, "at our own risk and discretion", really BJ, isn't that exactly what each of us do with every single action we each undertake in the course of our every day lives? You want us all to be careful and make wise choices yet you've chosen this thread to tell us that, I dispair in your behaviour, quite simply and will ask the Mods. to see if they will not close this thread now before the dialogue causes further damage, to us both! My sincere apologies to Nancy L and LCN for causing this debate in the first place.

[Tywais]

I believe chiang mai and Nancy have addressed certain questions and issues constructively. Probably best to address further questions to chiang mai or Nancy directly rather than letting this topic degrade any further.

//Closed//