U-Turn Seen On Thaksin Passport

[Buchholz]

Brilliant move by PTP, Thaksin had no real requirement for a Thai passport, turning the insistant clamour to have it revoked into a feather of fairness and judgement in the PTP cap,also accentuating the PTP adherance to legal responsibilities is good news for Thailand.

Brilliant move by PTP? More like an illegal move by the Minister of Foreign Affairs to have effected the issuing of a new passport while not only his office was flooded, but a larger part of the Thai population was suffering and if revoked just a correction of a procedural or probably even legal fault. Poor judgement of the government or just a cabinet minister.

In some countries including your own the MoFA would have been removed from office already and under further investigation.

AND this only coming after the cousin insisting he did nothing wrong and refusing to revoke the passport.

ALL of this comes ONLY after the Ombudsman Office definitively delineates its illegality. THEN and only then, are there rumblings that maybe the Cousin Foreign Minister committed an illegal act as his very first act as a brand new Foreign Minister upon being named by his other cousin, the Prime Minister.

Shameful, stupid move after move by the Pheu Thai Party.

Only when a third party tells them they are rule breakers do they pay any heed.

.

Edited October 13, 2012 by Buchholz

[473geo]

I have confidence PTP will resolve the passport situation with an acceptable solution for all in their push for reconciliation, highlighting their ability to perform within the current 'legal' boundaries............until such time as they can change them.....

[osiboy]

one law for the rich,..........one for the rest of us, same same the world over !

[473geo]

one law for the rich,..........one for the rest of us, same same the world over !

Shhhhhhhhhhh.......there are people here who think the politicians run countries......

[OzMick]

"If I had to choose between betraying my country and betraying my friend, I hope I should have the guts to betray my country. "

E. M. Forster

Of course Forster wasn't referring to a fiscal friendship.

[Bagwan]

Would he actually be deported to Thailand? My understanding of UK practice is that if a foreigner is refused entry to the UK he is deported to the country that he/she entered the country from rather than his own country. Wouldn't that be standard World practice? Furthermore the airline or shipping company bringing the refusee have to take away him/her at their expense. What happens if the undesirable arrives by hang glider? You could sell tickets to see him/her launch themselves off the White Cliffs of Dover or at Land's End.

Presume a lot depends upon various Hague Treaties, it is easy to put some one back on a plane, boat or train back to where they came from atb a port of entry but more difficult once they get into the country, presume if he landed illegally [hang glider, private plane, yacht, back of a lorry, etc] here in the UK they probably allow him leave to any country he wishes if he goes voluntarily, but if they have to "forcibly removed him I presume then he can be removed to any country he hold nationality, probably the one with the cheapest air fair.

But surprisingly he probably will not be returning back in Thailand, cattle class on Ryan Air any time soon.

Once they are in the UK it will take years to get them out again.Do gooders and their lawyers will see to that. I should think that many 'illegals' do not have a passport or if they have been issued with one, have destroyed it. Then the wheels grind away slowly until it can be proved that they are citizens of a particular country that they could be sent back to.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Let us all be truthful here for a moment, if the passport had been issued to somchai by the MOFA it would be a non issue, however as it is Thaksin, and without him the opposition have no platform....it is....but attempts to try and see the MOFA issuing a passport as anything other than issuing a passport are rather pointless....unless you like making up stories and conspiracy theories

If it was illegal then revoke it.....I do hope nothing crops up that would distract the government from attending to this important matter

Let us be all be truthful here for a moment, if Somchai (a registered criminal fugitive) would have applied for a new passport in the UAE he would have been apprehended on the spot (assuming a certain level of automation at the consulate), or upon returning to try to collect a new passport (with checks done back in Thailand). He might also have some explaining to do why his passport had expired and he didn't renew before.

BTW personally I consider this "Let us be all be truthful here for a moment" an insult

[rubl]

I have confidence PTP will resolve the passport situation with an acceptable solution for all in their push for reconciliation, highlighting their ability to perform within the current 'legal' boundaries............until such time as they can change them.....

I am less confident, but believe in the end the government will have no choice but to correct this slight mishap which is seen as flaunting the law. nothing related to reconciliation, just correcting a legal fault. Maybe the MoFA will need to step down to accept his responsibility, that's normal in properly functioning democracies.

Of course there is the distinct possibility that in the name of reconciliation the government led by "Thaksin thinks" Pheu Thai party will try to force through a change of law to allow issuing passports to fugitive criminals who's name start with "Th". terribly sorry, but we could hardly include "Somchai", now could we ?

[473geo]

begin removed ...

Let us all be truthful here for a moment, if the passport had been issued to somchai by the MOFA it would be a non issue, however as it is Thaksin, and without him the opposition have no platform....it is....but attempts to try and see the MOFA issuing a passport as anything other than issuing a passport are rather pointless....unless you like making up stories and conspiracy theories

If it was illegal then revoke it.....I do hope nothing crops up that would distract the government from attending to this important matter

Let us be all be truthful here for a moment, if Somchai (a registered criminal fugitive) would have applied for a new passport in the UAE he would have been apprehended on the spot (assuming a certain level of automation at the consulate), or upon returning to try to collect a new passport (with checks done back in Thailand). He might also have some explaining to do why his passport had expired and he didn't renew before.

BTW personally I consider this "Let us be all be truthful here for a moment" an insult

Yet you use the same phrase to start your post.......not that insulted then.........and your comment is superfluous to the point I was making, I doubt you missed the point just trying to make some rather poor milage out of my post as you have nothing original to say.....

[473geo]

I have confidence PTP will resolve the passport situation with an acceptable solution for all in their push for reconciliation, highlighting their ability to perform within the current 'legal' boundaries............until such time as they can change them.....

I am less confident, but believe in the end the government will have no choice but to correct this slight mishap which is seen as flaunting the law. nothing related to reconciliation, just correcting a legal fault. Maybe the MoFA will need to step down to accept his responsibility, that's normal in properly functioning democracies.

Of course there is the distinct possibility that in the name of reconciliation the government led by "Thaksin thinks" Pheu Thai party will try to force through a change of law to allow issuing passports to fugitive criminals who's name start with "Th". terribly sorry, but we could hardly include "Somchai", now could we ?

Oh I don't think there 'is a distinct possibility' at all........and let us be truthful here for a moment..... neither do you!!

Edited October 13, 2012 by 473geo

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Let us all be truthful here for a moment, if the passport had been issued to somchai by the MOFA it would be a non issue, however as it is Thaksin, and without him the opposition have no platform....it is....but attempts to try and see the MOFA issuing a passport as anything other than issuing a passport are rather pointless....unless you like making up stories and conspiracy theories

If it was illegal then revoke it.....I do hope nothing crops up that would distract the government from attending to this important matter

Let us be all be truthful here for a moment, if Somchai (a registered criminal fugitive) would have applied for a new passport in the UAE he would have been apprehended on the spot (assuming a certain level of automation at the consulate), or upon returning to try to collect a new passport (with checks done back in Thailand). He might also have some explaining to do why his passport had expired and he didn't renew before.

BTW personally I consider this "Let us be all be truthful here for a moment" an insult

Yet you use the same phrase to start your post.......not that insulted then.........and your comment is superfluous to the point I was making, I doubt you missed the point just trying to make some rather poor milage out of my post as you have nothing original to say.....

So irony is lost on you?

Anyway, in a few posts now you are desperately trying to give a positive spin on an error made by the Pheu Thai led government with a cabinet minister having permitted the issuing of a new passport to a fugitive criminal. Correcting this error has nothing to do with the government being nice, Pheu Thai willing to be reconciliatory, etc., etc. Just plain error correction as forced by law.

I agree with you stating I have nothing original to say, but unfortunately saying "follow the law" was only original once, maybe seven or eight mlilennia ago

[rubl]

I have confidence PTP will resolve the passport situation with an acceptable solution for all in their push for reconciliation, highlighting their ability to perform within the current 'legal' boundaries............until such time as they can change them.....

I am less confident, but believe in the end the government will have no choice but to correct this slight mishap which is seen as flaunting the law. nothing related to reconciliation, just correcting a legal fault. Maybe the MoFA will need to step down to accept his responsibility, that's normal in properly functioning democracies.

Of course there is the distinct possibility that in the name of reconciliation the government led by "Thaksin thinks" Pheu Thai party will try to force through a change of law to allow issuing passports to fugitive criminals who's name start with "Th". terribly sorry, but we could hardly include "Somchai", now could we ?

Oh I don't think there 'is a distinct possibility' at all........and let us be truthful here for a moment..... neither do you!!

With the 'reconciliation bills' affair I think there can be no doubt that distinct possibility is close to a probability (in trying to push through that is).

BTW as a Dutch uncle I am truthful to a fault and sometimes disliked for it

[473geo]

I have confidence PTP will resolve the passport situation with an acceptable solution for all in their push for reconciliation, highlighting their ability to perform within the current 'legal' boundaries............until such time as they can change them.....

I am less confident, but believe in the end the government will have no choice but to correct this slight mishap which is seen as flaunting the law. nothing related to reconciliation, just correcting a legal fault. Maybe the MoFA will need to step down to accept his responsibility, that's normal in properly functioning democracies.

Of course there is the distinct possibility that in the name of reconciliation the government led by "Thaksin thinks" Pheu Thai party will try to force through a change of law to allow issuing passports to fugitive criminals who's name start with "Th". terribly sorry, but we could hardly include "Somchai", now could we ?

Oh I don't think there 'is a distinct possibility' at all........and let us be truthful here for a moment..... neither do you!!

With the 'reconciliation bills' affair I think there can be no doubt that distinct possibility is close to a probability (in trying to push through that is).

BTW as a Dutch uncle I am truthful to a fault and sometimes disliked for it

Rubl "to be truthful" does not necessarily imply people were not being truthful previously, it can be to approach the truth head on, as in this case, not dance around it, more education for you.

Edited October 13, 2012 by 473geo

[rubl]

Oh I don't think there 'is a distinct possibility' at all........and let us be truthful here for a moment..... neither do you!!

With the 'reconciliation bills' affair I think there can be no doubt that distinct possibility is close to a probability (in trying to push through that is).

BTW as a Dutch uncle I am truthful to a fault and sometimes disliked for it

Rubl "to be truthful" does not necessarily imply people were not being truthful previously, it can be to approach the truth head on, as in this case, not dance around it, more education for you.

First things first, so let me thank you for taking the time to try to improve my understanding of this confusing language called English.

Now back to the posts, to be frank, heads on, straight to the point and the like, I truthfully think you are getting rather desperate and somewhat pathetic in trying to find a positive twist to the government and/or Pheu Thai party having to backtrack on what was a mistake.

Now just take a decent pint of bitter to wash away the taste of the chicken liver paté and contemplate if all that garlic was a good idea

[Roadman]

No wonder Thaksin wants to change the constitution. So that then all of this disregard for any sort of statue law is allowable to them but nobody else, with the judicary elected and governed by them. Just look at the total disregard for all types of governance process's that they have stuffed up or corrupted their way through over the short time of their governance, and most of it for a swindling criminal who wants to turn the rest of the Thai century into the Shinawatra dynasty.

And the waste of time and resources is being set by Pheu Thai and Thaksin not the response to their lawlessness.

Edit for some spelling

Edited October 13, 2012 by Roadman

[Nisa]

Aren't Thai passports only good for 5-years? How does he still have a valid one?

[Buchholz]

Aren't Thai passports only good for 5-years? How does he still have a valid one?

The passport illegally issued to him last year through his Cousin Foreign Minister was a new one.

It would have been valid until October 2016.

.

[perriwinkle]

He has more passports than Jason Bourne, I would have thought.

[Fozfromoz]

Aren't Thai passports only good for 5-years? How does he still have a valid one?

The passport illegally issued to him last year through his Cousin Foreign Minister was a new one.

It would have been valid until October 2016.

.

I must remember never to ask you for the time. I would get a complete description on how the Chronograph works....LOL

[MikeOboe57]

It was not "a mistake", it was a willful violation of the law. The timing was perfect, as with everybody staring at the rising floodwater levels the stammering idiot in Dubai was out of the limelight.

And all the energy the government invested in getting a Royal Pardon, a general amnesty bill or a new constitution to whitewash the paymaster made them think that his return "in pomp and glory" was just a matter of time. So an advance "gesture of goodwill" like a new passport, although illegal, was deemed highly appropriate.

Alas, all these aforementioned attempts fizzled out and now the FM looks like a moron.

[indyuk]

A Royal Thai police summons of Thaksin would be something worth seeing. It would certainly be another although major group who may wish to see the back end of the crim, giving that the numbers against him from balanced fields is mounting. Pretty girl should take heed and arse him and his main mob out of Pheu Thai and look to build something with those with some credibility...even the Dems would probably support.

Either way it is pleasing to see that general opinion is starting to ease Thaksins slimmy slithers from the cookies.

This whole charade over Taksin and his passport is infantile. There no general opinion that Taksin should not have a Thai passport. Taksin's political enemies may be fearful of his return to Thailand and perhaps it is they that are urging the ombudsman, the foreign office and Royal Thai Police in this matter.

Taksin is a Thai born and bred a son of Thailand and it's former Prime Minister. Taksin continues to enjoy the trust and the support of the majority of the Thai people. He is not a threat to the community. He is neither terrorist nor serial killer. There is absolutely no lawful justification or reason to cancel or refuse the issue of a passport or passports to Taksin.

[kerrysum]

Thaksin's Thai passport was revoked in April 2009 by then foreign minister Kasit. The current minister, Surapong Towichukchaikul, issued Thaksin a new one in October last year via the Thai Embassy in Abu Dhabi, United Arab Emirates

The old boys network will probably see it reissued again at some point in time! If not I would suspect that with his wealth he could obtain a Hong kong/Cambodian passport?

I guess that without a passport he would be unable to obtain and meet visa requirements which would in turn see him deported back to Thailand?

Let the games begin!

Are you aware he has a passport issued by Montenegro ?

He is on record proclaiming how happy he was to have gained Montenegrin citizenship before a crowd of journalists in Montenegro. Presumably he also got the passport too at the time as that was before he got his Thai passport back. Before that he was an honorary Nicaraguan ambassador and presumably had a Nicaraguan passport. However, the Nicaraguan honorary ambassador thing apparently carries a high price tag and renewal fees. So he probably ditched that after he became Montenegrin.

Gee you don't think that He bought it do you??????

[rixalex]

Rixalex previous post: "especially when considering the way they went about reissuing said passport during the floods."

Not closed for everybody it would appear......so one passport was produced.....'during the floods'......we come full circle to your ridiculous attempt to link the production of a passport to the floods.....thank you.... and good afternoon

There is no need to attempt to link the production of a passport to the floods, the link exists as a matter of absolute certainty, virtue of the fact that the passport was issued at the same time as parts of the country and the capital was up to its neck in water (the FM admitted it, after attempting to lie and getting caught out). That is the link, the time-scale... the two events occurred at the same time.

Acknowledging that link, does not however equate to stating that one act was responsible for the other. To make that equation, required you to travel not full circle, but to travel via a gargantuan leap in interpretation, and to intentionally completely misrepresent my view in the process. Or to put it more simply, lie about what i said.

Desperately trying to argue in favour of a Foreign Minister specially opening up offices at the time of a national disaster, so as which to make a new passport for a family relative who requested it, a family relative who is on the run from the law and who has no legal or logical right to be reissued a passport, has led you to some sad and desperate measures.

[rixalex]

This whole charade over Taksin and his passport is infantile. There no general opinion that Taksin should not have a Thai passport. Taksin's political enemies may be fearful of his return to Thailand and perhaps it is they that are urging the ombudsman, the foreign office and Royal Thai Police in this matter.

His sister is PM and his brother-in-law is head of the police. If his opponents are so fearful of his return, why doesn't he just defy them and come back?

Taksin continues to enjoy the trust and the support of the majority of the Thai people.

Explain then why the majority of people didn't vote for his party?

The fact is, the extent of his personal popularity is unknown until the day there is a referendum about him. You would think PTP would be keen to have one, were they as sure as you clearly are about the opinion of the majority of the nation.

He is not a threat to the community. He is neither terrorist nor serial killer. There is absolutely no lawful justification or reason to cancel or refuse the issue of a passport or passports to Taksin.

Anyone who breaks the law, gets convicted, jumps bail, and flees the country, has no right to be reissued a passport. It's not about whether a person is a threat or not. Arguing in favour of fugitives rights to travel is just about the most absurd thing i have ever heard from the reds, and that is saying something.

[rubl]

This whole charade over Taksin and his passport is infantile. There no general opinion that Taksin should not have a Thai passport. Taksin's political enemies may be fearful of his return to Thailand and perhaps it is they that are urging the ombudsman, the foreign office and Royal Thai Police in this matter.

Taksin is a Thai born and bred a son of Thailand and it's former Prime Minister. Taksin continues to enjoy the trust and the support of the majority of the Thai people. He is not a threat to the community. He is neither terrorist nor serial killer. There is absolutely no lawful justification or reason to cancel or refuse the issue of a passport or passports to Taksin.

Please explain this to the Ombudsman who is of the studied opinion that the passport was incorrectly issued and should be revoked again. Whether or not political but k. Thaksin is a fugitive criminal. That type of people normally don't need a passport and will not get one issued either.

[metisdead]

With a long post, we want members to snip the quoted post, ie quote only the part of the other member's post that is relevant to the reply. However, it is not acceptable to snip the quoted post leaving parts of the post to change the meaning or "taking the piss".

30) Do not modify someone else's post in your quoted reply, either with font or color changes, added emoticons, or altered wording.

One post has been removed.

[rubl]

begin removed ...

Let us all be truthful here for a moment, if the passport had been issued to somchai by the MOFA it would be a non issue, however as it is Thaksin, and without him the opposition have no platform....it is...

If the passport had been issued to Somchai Khunpluem, another convicted politician fugitive on the run like Thaksin, it would definitely be an issue.

http://en.wikipedia....mchai_Khunpluem

It would really be an issue if, just like Thaksin, his relative in Yingluck's Cabinet (in his case, Culture Minister Khunpleum), had helped in obtaining it for him.

... picture removed ...

Is this post on topic? If it is, how?. There is no mention of this person in the thread whatsoever and the post adds nothing to the discussion.

If you had read all of the posts you quote you would have read that a member questioned if the issuing of a passport to a 'Somchai' would have led to similar questions.

[rixalex]

If the issuance of the passport is deemed to be illegal it must be revoked (stated in a previous post already but repeated for you)

Do you not think it should perhaps go beyond simply revoking it, if it is deemed illegal?

If a government does something illegal, should they be allowed to simply say, "whoops, sorry about that folks, we'll just undo what we did and let's say no more on the subject". Don't "normal" people usually get punished when they do something illegal?

I have contested the attempts to turn "Ok do it" (referering to the processing of the passport) into a massive distraction for the government during the floods (also stated in a previous post but repeated for you)

Nobody said it was a "massive" distraction.

But a distraction, "yes", at a time when it might have been reasonable to think there were other more pressing ministerial duties taking precedence that they could have been applying themselves to.

[473geo]

If the issuance of the passport is deemed to be illegal it must be revoked (stated in a previous post already but repeated for you)

Do you not think it should perhaps go beyond simply revoking it, if it is deemed illegal?

If a government does something illegal, should they be allowed to simply say, "whoops, sorry about that folks, we'll just undo what we did and let's say no more on the subject". Don't "normal" people usually get punished when they do something illegal?

I have contested the attempts to turn "Ok do it" (referering to the processing of the passport) into a massive distraction for the government during the floods (also stated in a previous post but repeated for you)

Nobody said it was a "massive" distraction.

But a distraction, "yes", at a time when it might have been reasonable to think there were other more pressing ministerial duties taking precedence that they could have been applying themselves to.

No rixalex there are people who do not get punished, which makes a farce of the attempts to single others out......inconsistencies abound.......but keep turning your blind eye towards them

There are many major issues in Thailand at the moment that require the attention of the government.....but that won't stop you advocating the time consuming witch hunt you seek

Double standards rixalex?

No I don't think this is a major issue worth anything further than revoking the passport if required....what do you think? dissolution of PTP.?..

Edited October 14, 2012 by 473geo

[rubl]

First things first, so let me thank you for taking the time to try to improve my understanding of this confusing language called English.

Now back to the posts, to be frank, heads on, straight to the point and the like, I truthfully think you are getting rather desperate and somewhat pathetic in trying to find a positive twist to the government and/or Pheu Thai party having to backtrack on what was a mistake.

Now just take a decent pint of bitter to wash away the taste of the chicken liver paté and contemplate if all that garlic was a good idea

If the issuance of the passport is deemed to be illegal it must be revoked (stated in a previous post already but repeated for you)

I have contested the attempts to turn "Ok do it" (referering to the processing of the passport) into a massive distraction for the government during the floods (also stated in a previous post but repeated for you)

I have confidence PTP will resolve this issue to the legal and moral acceptance of all (also stated in a previous post but repeated for you)

Desperate?...I think not....Rubl......but if you look at the responses to my posts you may find your strains of desperation

(garlic removed)

May I remind you of one of your previous posts in this thread (#25):

"Brilliant move by PTP, Thaksin had no real requirement for a Thai passport, turning the insistant clamour to have it revoked into a feather of fairness and judgement in the PTP cap,also accentuating the PTP adherance to legal responsibilities is good news for Thailand."

So again, just correcting a fault, or more correct an unlawful issuing of a passport to a fugitive criminal who happened to be related to both the PM and the MoFA. Adherance to legal responsabilities would have seen a request for a passport turned down and not sneakily issued when none where looking (and lots flooded) and more than a month later admitting that it had been done. Nothing 'feather of fearness', nothing ' judgment in PT's cap', nothing in adherance to legal responsibilities', just plain old deviousness. The government that is , not you of course