How Hard Is Lpg On The Engine?

[soi41]

I see more and more often on Thai 2hand sites, the seller is using "never had gas" as a selling argument.

I know, that because of the higher temperatures by using LPG, it takes its toll on the engine. But how bad is it? Would you buy a European car like ie Audi or Volkswagen knowing that it has done lets say 100k km on gas??

[JeffreyMcCollum]

I would pay extra for a car or truck that had it and several companies sell then new that way (Suzuki and DMF come to mind)

[soi41]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

[skippybangkok]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

[culicine]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Its probably better to ask "which makes/models cope better with LPG than others. I have a honda and head many stories of burned valves by 100K, but interestingly no first hand stories. Old 8 valve mitsu engines seem to survive well, but the fords/hondas apparently don't. Thais love to save a few baht and probably end up selling their cars when they start to get problems. A fellow teacher has a nissan sunny that had run gas for a few years before he got it. Still seems ok; another has an old toyota corolla that also seems fine. Again, all of this is second hand information, so maybe other posters have direct experience with lpg.

[WarpSpeed]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Without hesitation, all else being equal and good, especially a European car in that vein ANY VW/Audi product. I'm speaking from experience and several Lp owned VW cars over the past few years without a single related problem and yes, all second and sometimes third hand. Search around there are several threads about this and I've given a lot of tips on how to extend the life and take proper care of the top end while using Lp.

Multi-valve engines are a bit more susceptible to burning valves though (well Honda and Toyota more so) and that includes VW/Audi multi-valve engines..

[sotsira]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

Actually LPG engines stay better lubricated than petrol or diesel engines because the oil doesn't get

contaminated with LPG as it's a gas, unlike petrol and diesel which are liquids and deteriorate engine oil

as they mix through the cylinder bores.

Therefore the oil will last longer and the engine will suffer less wear.

Also, because LPG is a gas it doesn't create carbon deposits inside the engine where as petrol and diesel

does so an LPG engine will run cleaner and therefore have a longer life expectancy.

[VocalNeal]

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

After 10,000kms the oil comes out the same amber colour it went in. Not all black and sludgy like a petrol/gas vehicle. Inside tail pipe has signs of surface rust as it is not all black like.....

Why is it less lubricated? If you mean the inlet valves, a very small percentage of the engine components, are less lubricated because gas is dry and not "wet" like petrol. Vehicles made since the demise of lead based anti knock additives have a valve gear that withstands the lack of lead based lubrication. What about direct injection engines where the fuel mist misses the inlet valve stems? Anyway many LPG vehicle here have small drip feed UCL tanks.

Given that in some countries like Italy is is quite common to use LPG one has to think that all European vehicles are designed with that in mind. As it is doubtful they make special engines for the Italian market.

Just a though that here it is probably more of a snobby thing. Inferring that an LPG equipped car was owned by a person of low financial standing who couldn't afford benzine and therefore couldn't afford maintenance. Or simply the current used car sales BS to increase the perceived price of a car.

I would judge a vehicle by its overall condition, history etc.rather than by the type of fuel it did or didn't use. If the salesman told me it has never been run on LPG one would have to challenge how he knew, what difference it makes and see what kind of BS answer he or she came up with.

Jeffrey is correct. Hard to find a Suzuki Carry that is not LPG.

[transam]

All engine designs are not equal.

Some cannot handle gas. Some motor manufactures who produce a ride to run on gas use a few different engine components to deal with the stuff.

[WarpSpeed]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

Actually LPG engines stay better lubricated than petrol or diesel engines because the oil doesn't get

contaminated with LPG as it's a gas, unlike petrol and diesel which are liquids and deteriorate engine oil

as they mix through the cylinder bores.

Therefore the oil will last longer and the engine will suffer less wear.

Also, because LPG is a gas it doesn't create carbon deposits inside the engine where as petrol and diesel

does so an LPG engine will run cleaner and therefore have a longer life expectancy.

But the top end being the heads and valves doesn't get good lubrication and then to make matters worse they run at higher temps which is notable when you drive long distances for long periods. An educated ear can hear the valve train tightening up and the car does show performance issues if you don't run it with benzine for short periods to both cool and lubricate the valves. It's certain that this is when it fractures or bends a valve stem on some cars with more fragile valves and higher RPM's like multi-valve engines are known to run..

^^ When it comes to resale, the LP cars I bought were priced higher then the benzine cars in similar condition and they sold very quickly both when searching, buying and when reselling..

[soi41]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

Actually LPG engines stay better lubricated than petrol or diesel engines because the oil doesn't get

contaminated with LPG as it's a gas, unlike petrol and diesel which are liquids and deteriorate engine oil

as they mix through the cylinder bores.

Therefore the oil will last longer and the engine will suffer less wear.

Also, because LPG is a gas it doesn't create carbon deposits inside the engine where as petrol and diesel

does so an LPG engine will run cleaner and therefore have a longer life expectancy.

But the top end being the heads and valves doesn't get good lubrication and then to make matters worse they run at higher temps which is notable when you drive long distances for long periods. An educated ear can hear the valve train tightening up and the car does show performance issues if you don't run it with benzine for short periods to both cool and lubricate the valves. It's certain that this is when it fractures or bends a valve stem on some cars with more fragile valves and higher RPM's like multi-valve engines are known to run..

^^ When it comes to resale, the LP cars I bought were priced higher then the benzine cars in similar condition and they sold very quickly both when searching, buying and when reselling..

Thank you for your replies so far. Can I just add another question related to WS's post above? When switching to benzine from driving gas is there any danger in the benzine going into a 900 degree engine?

[WarpSpeed]

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

Actually LPG engines stay better lubricated than petrol or diesel engines because the oil doesn't get

contaminated with LPG as it's a gas, unlike petrol and diesel which are liquids and deteriorate engine oil

as they mix through the cylinder bores.

Therefore the oil will last longer and the engine will suffer less wear.

Also, because LPG is a gas it doesn't create carbon deposits inside the engine where as petrol and diesel

does so an LPG engine will run cleaner and therefore have a longer life expectancy.

But the top end being the heads and valves doesn't get good lubrication and then to make matters worse they run at higher temps which is notable when you drive long distances for long periods. An educated ear can hear the valve train tightening up and the car does show performance issues if you don't run it with benzine for short periods to both cool and lubricate the valves. It's certain that this is when it fractures or bends a valve stem on some cars with more fragile valves and higher RPM's like multi-valve engines are known to run..

^^ When it comes to resale, the LP cars I bought were priced higher then the benzine cars in similar condition and they sold very quickly both when searching, buying and when reselling..

Thank you for your replies so far. Can I just add another question related to WS's post above? When switching to benzine from driving gas is there any danger in the benzine going into a 900 degree engine?

900 degrees? Hope it's nothing close to that temp, where'd you get that number from??

To answer your question in relation to factual numbers though there's no difference or danger factor..

[BSJ]

I was asking about 2hand cars! As an example, a 10 year old Passat with 200k on the clock, LPG-kit installed 5 years ago, so logically about 100k km on gas, how much damage has that done to the engine??

Not an expert, but I believe it damages the engine. I think it runs hotter and engine less lubricated.

I have diesel, would never want gas. Have plenty of power, and good fuel economy

Actually LPG engines stay better lubricated than petrol or diesel engines because the oil doesn't get

contaminated with LPG as it's a gas, unlike petrol and diesel which are liquids and deteriorate engine oil

as they mix through the cylinder bores.

Therefore the oil will last longer and the engine will suffer less wear.

Also, because LPG is a gas it doesn't create carbon deposits inside the engine where as petrol and diesel

does so an LPG engine will run cleaner and therefore have a longer life expectancy.

Yes, your right. The only problem that plagued older models was valve guide wear. Generally todays engines have harder valve guides. Also modern car engines are running hotter so LPG may have some benefit in cooling the combustion chamber . Yer, that sounds weird but there maybe some benefit. Years ago people where working with water injection systems to cool the combustion chamber. The theory was that it lowered the threshold for pre-ignition under load or high revs.

[thunder30101]

Too many people when converting to lpg or cng try to go with the cheapest kit\install they can find, thats where problems come from not the engines. Just search for kits online and you will see the difference in quality.

[aussiebebe]

In answer to the OP, I think 'never had gas' is a valid selling point as you are specifically dealing with retro-fitting vehicles that were never designed to run on LPG nor warranties to do so - no vehicles have ever been sold with factory-fitted LPG systems in Thailand the way they are in other countries like Australia, for instance.

I should add that I have no experience of running a car on LPG; I understand that the LPG company will service the LPG system ie. if you buy a Versus system, they will service that, but I don't know where the owners get the LPG-related issues serviced. For example, I just have a Honda City, so if I fitted LPG, would Honda's service schedule take account of LPG issues related to the engine? I'm not sure. I do have friends with LPG fitted cars and I know the savings are significant, certainly enough to cover engine damage over a 100,000km span.

[culicine]

In answer to the OP, I think 'never had gas' is a valid selling point as you are specifically dealing with retro-fitting vehicles that were never designed to run on LPG nor warranties to do so - no vehicles have ever been sold with factory-fitted LPG systems in Thailand the way they are in other countries like Australia, for instance.

I should add that I have no experience of running a car on LPG; I understand that the LPG company will service the LPG system ie. if you buy a Versus system, they will service that, but I don't know where the owners get the LPG-related issues serviced. For example, I just have a Honda City, so if I fitted LPG, would Honda's service schedule take account of LPG issues related to the engine? I'm not sure. I do have friends with LPG fitted cars and I know the savings are significant, certainly enough to cover engine damage over a 100,000km span.

I wouldn't fit any CNG/LPG kit during the warranty period. When I asked them about it, they said CNG would damage my engine. I would guess they would not be happy at dealing with any engine tune related issues that "might" be attributable the the gas system fitted - the attitud that I got was that any tune problem was due to the gas system, and they would not deal with it. I don't know what a compete top overhaul would cost on a honda but I doubt it's cheap - it could still be cheaper than running on gas for 100K though. The BIL has a crv that has been running happily on LPG though, for 70/80K kms now; no apparent problems as yet.

[WarpSpeed]

In answer to the OP, I think 'never had gas' is a valid selling point as you are specifically dealing with retro-fitting vehicles that were never designed to run on LPG nor warranties to do so - no vehicles have ever been sold with factory-fitted LPG systems in Thailand the way they are in other countries like Australia, for instance.

I should add that I have no experience of running a car on LPG; I understand that the LPG company will service the LPG system ie. if you buy a Versus system, they will service that, but I don't know where the owners get the LPG-related issues serviced. For example, I just have a Honda City, so if I fitted LPG, would Honda's service schedule take account of LPG issues related to the engine? I'm not sure. I do have friends with LPG fitted cars and I know the savings are significant, certainly enough to cover engine damage over a 100,000km span.

The BIL has a crv that has been running happily on LPG though, for 70/80K kms now; no apparent problems as yet.

Only 70 or 80K's well no wonder .................................... Seriously though I have to agree I'd never consider it on a newer warranteed car..

[raro]

I have now over 100k on lpg on the clock and no signs of engine wear whatsoever.

Honda civic 2.0

I must add, I drive mostly high ways and keep the revs under 3000 - which corresponds to 140 kmph set with the cruise control.

sent from my Android phone

[culicine]

I have now over 100k on lpg on the clock and no signs of engine wear whatsoever.

Honda civic 2.0

I must add, I drive mostly high ways and keep the revs under 3000 - which corresponds to 140 kmph set with the cruise control.

sent from my Android phone

This is the 8th gen civic? The only think I might suggest is having the valves adjusted, in case there is some valve seat wear. Did you also have a lubrication kit fitted as well?

[Mousehound]

Had a Camry 2.4L 4 cylinder converted to LPG as I average 1000k per week - have done over 150 000k and never a problem with anything. I now insist on using Shell oil that is especially for LPG. Toyota mechanics opinion is that the engine will be cleaner. Also I have had some problems with dirty fuel from petrol pumps - so cuts out that worry to some degree.. Saves me about $3000 a year on fuel so I think it is a good bet. Taxis in Oz use LPG and get huge Kms out of them. Usually it is the transmissions that play up way before the motor.

[technologybytes]

I made the decision last month to pay the 27,500 baht to have one of my cars converted to LPG here in Thailand. I did a lot of research and whilst I must stress that I am no "expert" on the subject, I did speak to experienced mechanics and did a lot of detailed research.. and you know what, there is an awful lot of misinformation out there.

It is a selling point to have a car that has NEVER had LPG fitted, because quite simply the less aftermarket mods to a car the more it's worth. Cars that have LPG fitted have a tendancy to do more KM per year, and people like the idea of a used car that's done fewer miles. Its NOT because LPG damages the engine, but it could be partly because of the perception of LPG damaging the engine.

I first wanted LPG a few years ago when I had a new Toyota, I could not get a clear answer from Toyota about how it affected the warranty so I decided against it, I have had 2 new small cars since and recently bought a older Volvo as a second car, and we love it so much we just use it all the time, however it was a bit thirsty around town so I decided it was a good candidate for LPG. I talked to the Volvo dealer and they recommneded a local LPG fitter, then I talked to a couple of very good and experienced mechanics and asked their opinion on LPG, in retation to engine wear etc. Both experienced mechanics who routinely service a wide range of cars with and without LPG were both totally convinced that LPG is actually better for a engine than petrol.

I researched the theory that engines run hotter on LPG and the rumors that engines get less lubrication.

The suggestion that an engine runs hotter is confusing, but I've been told that on ECU managed engines the higher octane rating of LPG (which is higher than any available petrol) allows the engine management to advance the timing more than it would on petrol without the risk of pre-ignition and hence run more efficently, this is not at all detrimental to the engine but can make the internal temperature higher under certain conditions, however the cooling system of any well maintained car ensures that the engine is sufficiently cooled to the same stabilised tempearture as when running on petrol.. so basically its not an issue and you will never notice ot.

The idea that the engine gets less lubrication seems crazy, modern engines are lubricated soley by the motor oil and not by the fuel. Anecdotal evidence from experienced mechanics suggests that if your car was built after about 1986 (and hence has hardened valve seats to cope with unleaded petrol) then any sort of upper cylinder lubricant is unnessesary and LPG cars experience no more wear than petrol cars.

I have done about 3000 km now on LPG and I'm amazed at the cost savings, it's costing less than half the previous cost of running on petrol, and the only downside is that the LPG tank only has a range of about 370km, but there seem to be plenty of LPG stations and I have not yet found any to have queues, also it's nice not to have to choose which pump to stop at as they are all the same.

Before having the system fitted nobody told me that despite having a 64 litre tank I can only get approx 44 litres of gas in there, that's because you can't fill a LPG tank beyond about 80% and most LPG pumps cut off before even that.

I asked if the weight of the tank would be an issue and the fitting shop said it would not, however when I have a full tank of gas the back of the car sits noticably slightly lower at the back than it did before, so I may look into having slightly stronger springs fitted to compensate.

The big question: How does it run in gas? Honestly, it runs a bit smoother on gas than it did on petrol, the idle is a bit more even and it seems a bit more responsive, I think that's because it's an older car with a new LPG injection system.

I'm told that the engine oil and exhaust emissions will be cleaner, well I change my engine oil every 5000k and it always comes out the same colour that it goes in anyway, it's nice to think that emissions are lower.

If anyone here lives in Chiang Mai and really wants to know how gas feels compared to petrol then you are welcome to drive my old volvo and judge for yourself.

[WarpSpeed]

Like you said you're not an expert and like you said "there is way too much misinformation" . A properly tuned car has a virtually indistinguishable difference in performance between fuels.. 5k with modern oils even without Lp is costly and wasteful overkill, but up to you. Changing the filter these days is far more effective and necessary but still not nearly as often as that..

Of course the tank is larger as the Lp (which stands for 'liquid propane') has to have room to vaporize when it warms, travel through the system and expand safely without breaching the tank..

BTW I thought you said you did a lot of research but yet several basic items escaped your research before you bought..

Most Lp systems BTW have been designed by worthy mechanics and that's where a lot of the advice & recommendations come from and not from Thailand either..

[technologybytes]

Yes Warpspeed, you are right I should have done more of the research before I had the installation and not after!

Really, prior to installation my research was mostly about wear and tear on the engine.

I agree that 5000 km oil changes are probably too frequent, but it's a small price to pay for peace of mind. I have always changed oil frequently in my cars and it's a policy that i'm happy to continue. If it were a new car I'd certainly just go with recommended service intervals, but my mechanic only charges 600 baht for oil and filter change and I'm happy with doing that every 5k. I'm certainly not suggesting that oil needs to be changed that frequently and I'm not suggesting that a LPG car needs more frequent changes.

Like you said you're not an expert and like you said "there is way too much misinformation" . A properly tuned car has a virtually indistinguishable difference in performance between fuels.. 5k with modern oils even without Lp is costly and wasteful overkill, but up to you. Changing the filter these days is far more effective and necessary but still not nearly as often as that..

Of course the tank is larger as the Lp (which stands for 'liquid propane') has to have room to vaporize when it warms, travel through the system and expand safely without breaching the tank..

BTW I thought you said you did a lot of research but yet several basic items escaped your research before you bought..

Most Lp systems BTW have been designed by worthy mechanics and that's where a lot of the advice & recommendations come from and not from Thailand either..

[transam]

Yes Warpspeed, you are right I should have done more of the research before I had the installation and not after!

Really, prior to installation my research was mostly about wear and tear on the engine.

I agree that 5000 km oil changes are probably too frequent, but it's a small price to pay for peace of mind. I have always changed oil frequently in my cars and it's a policy that i'm happy to continue. If it were a new car I'd certainly just go with recommended service intervals, but my mechanic only charges 600 baht for oil and filter change and I'm happy with doing that every 5k. I'm certainly not suggesting that oil needs to be changed that frequently and I'm not suggesting that a LPG car needs more frequent changes.

Like you said you're not an expert and like you said "there is way too much misinformation" . A properly tuned car has a virtually indistinguishable difference in performance between fuels.. 5k with modern oils even without Lp is costly and wasteful overkill, but up to you. Changing the filter these days is far more effective and necessary but still not nearly as often as that..

Of course the tank is larger as the Lp (which stands for 'liquid propane') has to have room to vaporize when it warms, travel through the system and expand safely without breaching the tank..

BTW I thought you said you did a lot of research but yet several basic items escaped your research before you bought..

Most Lp systems BTW have been designed by worthy mechanics and that's where a lot of the advice & recommendations come from and not from Thailand either..

5000km is the correct oil change period for basic mineral oil regardless of whats on paper, especially in LOS climate.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes Warpspeed, you are right I should have done more of the research before I had the installation and not after!

Really, prior to installation my research was mostly about wear and tear on the engine.

I agree that 5000 km oil changes are probably too frequent, but it's a small price to pay for peace of mind. I have always changed oil frequently in my cars and it's a policy that i'm happy to continue. If it were a new car I'd certainly just go with recommended service intervals, but my mechanic only charges 600 baht for oil and filter change and I'm happy with doing that every 5k. I'm certainly not suggesting that oil needs to be changed that frequently and I'm not suggesting that a LPG car needs more frequent changes.

Like you said you're not an expert and like you said "there is way too much misinformation" . A properly tuned car has a virtually indistinguishable difference in performance between fuels.. 5k with modern oils even without Lp is costly and wasteful overkill, but up to you. Changing the filter these days is far more effective and necessary but still not nearly as often as that..

Of course the tank is larger as the Lp (which stands for 'liquid propane') has to have room to vaporize when it warms, travel through the system and expand safely without breaching the tank..

BTW I thought you said you did a lot of research but yet several basic items escaped your research before you bought..

Most Lp systems BTW have been designed by worthy mechanics and that's where a lot of the advice & recommendations come from and not from Thailand either..

5000km is the correct oil change period for basic mineral oil regardless of whats on paper, especially in LOS climate.

More old school rubbish being spewed especially in the case of an Lp car, you should do more research before looking the fool and posting your usual nonsense.. And it no longer has naught to do with "Thailand climate" only clueless northerners fall into that old hype ... Curious though, just how many lp cars have you owned?

[transam]

Yes Warpspeed, you are right I should have done more of the research before I had the installation and not after!

Really, prior to installation my research was mostly about wear and tear on the engine.

I agree that 5000 km oil changes are probably too frequent, but it's a small price to pay for peace of mind. I have always changed oil frequently in my cars and it's a policy that i'm happy to continue. If it were a new car I'd certainly just go with recommended service intervals, but my mechanic only charges 600 baht for oil and filter change and I'm happy with doing that every 5k. I'm certainly not suggesting that oil needs to be changed that frequently and I'm not suggesting that a LPG car needs more frequent changes.

Like you said you're not an expert and like you said "there is way too much misinformation" . A properly tuned car has a virtually indistinguishable difference in performance between fuels.. 5k with modern oils even without Lp is costly and wasteful overkill, but up to you. Changing the filter these days is far more effective and necessary but still not nearly as often as that..

Of course the tank is larger as the Lp (which stands for 'liquid propane') has to have room to vaporize when it warms, travel through the system and expand safely without breaching the tank..

BTW I thought you said you did a lot of research but yet several basic items escaped your research before you bought..

Most Lp systems BTW have been designed by worthy mechanics and that's where a lot of the advice & recommendations come from and not from Thailand either..

5000km is the correct oil change period for basic mineral oil regardless of whats on paper, especially in LOS climate.

More old school rubbish being spewed especially in the case of an Lp car, you should do more research before looking the fool and posting your usual nonsense.. And it no longer has naught to do with "Thailand climate" only clueless northerners fall into that old hype ... Curious though, just how many lp cars have you owned?

Don't care what the propulsion method is, oil is the life blood of ANYTHING mechanical, 5000km or 3000miles on mineral oil for one who CARES about mechanical stuff, an engine, is safe, change it at THAT interval.

Back off Warpy till you have something constructive in your theatre of expertise, eh. .

[WarpSpeed]

So you're wrong again and trying to sound all tough and make this personal again to distract from the false information you've provided? First off when you grow a real set Lance you can tell me to "back off" but until then you're nothing but wanke_r windbag..To coin a phrase you should know very well.

Now having made that clear, in the hear and now climate of 2012 versus the 1980's you still live in, with better engine components, higher quality oil, higher expense & to cut back on unnecessary waste, those recommendations have been altered & adjusted dramatically & in most cases doubled by nearly EVERY credible source on the topic of which doesn't include Thai Visa's own T/A or those who'd like you to buy as much as possible to keep them working, but instead oil filter changes on those intervals and that's WITHOUT an LP car.

Which BTW you have done your usual 'tap dance around the question routine' and not answered just how many Lp cars you've owned? Until you do, you have no credibility on the topic I've had over 5 so far not a single one with problems so I guess this is well within my area of expertise...

Of course the oil companies and garages who want you to change as often as possible don't discourage you from giving them work for more money now do they? Unless of course it was a mechanic with ethics and principles with YOUR best interest at heart like me but they're few and far between..

[transam]

So you're wrong again and trying to sound all tough and make this personal again to distract from the false information you've provided? First off when you grow a real set Lance you can tell me to "back off" but until then you're nothing but wanke_r windbag..

Now having made that clear, in the hear and now climate of 2012 versus the 1980's you still live in, with better engine components, higher quality oil, higher expense & to cut back on unnecessary waste, those recommendations have been altered & adjusted dramatically & in most cases doubled by nearly EVERY credible source on the topic of which doesn't include those who'd like you to buy as much as possible to keep them working, but instead oil filter changes on those intervals and that's WITHOUT an LP car.

Which BTW you have done your usual 'tap dance around the question routine' and not answered just how many Lp cars you've owned? Until you do, you have no credibility on the topic...

Of course the oil companies and garages who want you to change as often as possible don't discourage you from giving them work for more money now do they? Unless of course it was a mechanic with ethics and principles with YOUR best interest at heart like me but they're few and far between..

NOTHING PERSONAL from me. I did near half million miles in two cars, changed oil every 3000 miles with mineral oil.. READ stuff eh.

So tell me oh wise one. When you whizzed round a track for 20 minutes in your VW grocery getter, WHEN did you, or did you change the oil. ?

[WarpSpeed]

Just for the record it's note worthy to mention that with those cars and especially one in particular I did all of the maintenance from when I acquired it and it had over 180,000K's on Lp alone and over 300,000k when I sold it and it still ran like brand new without a single noise to be had.. The one upgrade I made to them all was to increase the and filtering capacity to diesel oil filters which fit without modification and to provide more oil and filtering capacity was made but is a little known racers trick to provide better protection.

Additionally in more then 25 years of racing, winning, track records, fastest laps & multiple championships I've NEVER blown an engine. Don't know of a single front running driver who can make that claim in an even shorter time frame then 25 years, again more then well enough qualified..

[WarpSpeed]

So you're wrong again and trying to sound all tough and make this personal again to distract from the false information you've provided? First off when you grow a real set Lance you can tell me to "back off" but until then you're nothing but wanke_r windbag..

Now having made that clear, in the hear and now climate of 2012 versus the 1980's you still live in, with better engine components, higher quality oil, higher expense & to cut back on unnecessary waste, those recommendations have been altered & adjusted dramatically & in most cases doubled by nearly EVERY credible source on the topic of which doesn't include those who'd like you to buy as much as possible to keep them working, but instead oil filter changes on those intervals and that's WITHOUT an LP car.

Which BTW you have done your usual 'tap dance around the question routine' and not answered just how many Lp cars you've owned? Until you do, you have no credibility on the topic...

Of course the oil companies and garages who want you to change as often as possible don't discourage you from giving them work for more money now do they? Unless of course it was a mechanic with ethics and principles with YOUR best interest at heart like me but they're few and far between..

NOTHING PERSONAL from me. I did near half million miles in two cars, changed oil every 3000 miles with mineral oil.. READ stuff eh.

So tell me oh wise one. When you whizzed round a track for 20 minutes in your VW grocery getter, WHEN did you, or did you change the oil. ?

Yes when you tell me to "back off" and that "I'm not qualified" it is most definitely personal...

2 cars? Again Lp cars and where??

Yes real men and drivers do more then 1-15 second run at a time in their Firechicken and they brake and turn corners fast & consistently dozens of times per lap and for hours on end (stamina) & don't head to the loo or frig between straight line runs to get a brewski or drain the lizard ..