Thailand's War With The Uk

[chiangmaikelly]

So me and my buddy Henry were sitting around at the yacht club having a beer. I drove a Jaguar back then. Henry asked me why I wasn't driving a Ford and I told him it's because he couldn't win at Le Mans. He said, “could too.” I said, “could not.”

So good to my word I traded in my Jag and bought a Mustang in 1967 the first year an American designed and made car won at Le Mans.

But as good as it was for Americans to finally win at Le Mans among all those snooty European drivers who thought Yanks were only hillbilly stock car racers it had nothing to do with car production and also nothing to do with what I was talking about in this thread.

Where do the best automotive engineers come from today? I don't know but one would guess Germany or Japan. And I didn't compare Thailand to Germany or Japan.

Thai engineers may not be coming up with new ways to make a chassis more aerodynamic but they have figured out how to keep the factory running with Thai workers whose first priority is drinking whiskey and eating som tom. Now that is a feat of modern engineering. They take raw materials and produce a finished product and they do it on time and ship it on time and then go to lunch and eat som tom on time. The buses run on time that pick up the workers. They run past my house every day and in three years I have never seen one late. That takes maintenance and scheduling and a host of characters that have degrees in industrial engineering to pull off. It is not formula one racing it is simple factory engineering.

Let's just ignore that you're bezzie mates with Henry Ford for a minute, but Ford or Americans didn't design the GT40 they couldn't do it themselves. They got Eric Broadley of Lola to design it.

That would be British Eric Broadley of British company Lola with British John Wyer working with him. It was designed and built by British people in Britian.

The only American thing about the car was the engine block.

In 1967 the Mk IV GT40 would become the only entry designed and produced entirely within the United States to claim an overall win at Le Mans

[chiangmaikelly]

Lucky for me then (I guess) that I'm not British old chap.

Adios.

That is obvious.

[arthurwait]

So me and my buddy Henry were sitting around at the yacht club having a beer. I drove a Jaguar back then. Henry asked me why I wasn't driving a Ford and I told him it's because he couldn't win at Le Mans. He said, “could too.” I said, “could not.”

So good to my word I traded in my Jag and bought a Mustang in 1967 the first year an American designed and made car won at Le Mans.

But as good as it was for Americans to finally win at Le Mans among all those snooty European drivers who thought Yanks were only hillbilly stock car racers it had nothing to do with car production and also nothing to do with what I was talking about in this thread.

Where do the best automotive engineers come from today? I don't know but one would guess Germany or Japan. And I didn't compare Thailand to Germany or Japan.

Thai engineers may not be coming up with new ways to make a chassis more aerodynamic but they have figured out how to keep the factory running with Thai workers whose first priority is drinking whiskey and eating som tom. Now that is a feat of modern engineering. They take raw materials and produce a finished product and they do it on time and ship it on time and then go to lunch and eat som tom on time. The buses run on time that pick up the workers. They run past my house every day and in three years I have never seen one late. That takes maintenance and scheduling and a host of characters that have degrees in industrial engineering to pull off. It is not formula one racing it is simple factory engineering.

Let's just ignore that you're bezzie mates with Henry Ford for a minute, but Ford or Americans didn't design the GT40 they couldn't do it themselves. They got Eric Broadley of Lola to design it.

That would be British Eric Broadley of British company Lola with British John Wyer working with him. It was designed and built by British people in Britian.

The only American thing about the car was the engine block.

In 1967 the Mk IV GT40 would become the only entry designed and produced entirely within the United States to claim an overall win at Le Mans

A development of the original car not designed by Brits.

Ok I'll let you have one Le Mans win.

[samran]

Lucky for me then (I guess) that I'm not British old chap.

Adios.

That is obvious.

compliments will get you everywhere dear boy.

[chiangmaikelly]

So me and my buddy Henry were sitting around at the yacht club having a beer. I drove a Jaguar back then. Henry asked me why I wasn't driving a Ford and I told him it's because he couldn't win at Le Mans. He said, “could too.” I said, “could not.”

So good to my word I traded in my Jag and bought a Mustang in 1967 the first year an American designed and made car won at Le Mans.

But as good as it was for Americans to finally win at Le Mans among all those snooty European drivers who thought Yanks were only hillbilly stock car racers it had nothing to do with car production and also nothing to do with what I was talking about in this thread.

Where do the best automotive engineers come from today? I don't know but one would guess Germany or Japan. And I didn't compare Thailand to Germany or Japan.

Thai engineers may not be coming up with new ways to make a chassis more aerodynamic but they have figured out how to keep the factory running with Thai workers whose first priority is drinking whiskey and eating som tom. Now that is a feat of modern engineering. They take raw materials and produce a finished product and they do it on time and ship it on time and then go to lunch and eat som tom on time. The buses run on time that pick up the workers. They run past my house every day and in three years I have never seen one late. That takes maintenance and scheduling and a host of characters that have degrees in industrial engineering to pull off. It is not formula one racing it is simple factory engineering.

Let's just ignore that you're bezzie mates with Henry Ford for a minute, but Ford or Americans didn't design the GT40 they couldn't do it themselves. They got Eric Broadley of Lola to design it.

That would be British Eric Broadley of British company Lola with British John Wyer working with him. It was designed and built by British people in Britian.

The only American thing about the car was the engine block.

In 1967 the Mk IV GT40 would become the only entry designed and produced entirely within the United States to claim an overall win at Le Mans

A development of the original car not designed by Brits.

Ok I'll let you have one Le Mans win.

It is easy to tell Arthur is British he is a gentleman.

Ford entered and won Le Mans in 1967, in all-new car! The GT40 Mark IV was an all-Dearborn creation, born to some degree in response to criticism that the earlier cars were simply English machines funded by big American pockets. So different were the Mark IVs, for example, that they were constructed of aluminum honeycomb bonded with the latest aerospace techniques, instead of steel.

Edited October 16, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[draftvader]

Since we are on the topic of British and cars....

Does anyone remember that episode of "Top Gear" where Jeremy and the boys drove cars through the American deep South (Alabama) with stuff like "Nascar sucks" and "I'm Bi" written on their cars?

I just kind of got to thinking that this thread is kind of like that...but in reverse.

CMK, dude I gotta respect you for toughing it out in this thread.

Have you ever seen this reply from Rich Hall, one of the USA's finest comedians?

[draftvader]

So me and my buddy Henry were sitting around at the yacht club having a beer. I drove a Jaguar back then. Henry asked me why I wasn't driving a Ford and I told him it's because he couldn't win at Le Mans. He said, “could too.” I said, “could not.”

So good to my word I traded in my Jag and bought a Mustang in 1967 the first year an American designed and made car won at Le Mans.

But as good as it was for Americans to finally win at Le Mans among all those snooty European drivers who thought Yanks were only hillbilly stock car racers it had nothing to do with car production and also nothing to do with what I was talking about in this thread.

Where do the best automotive engineers come from today? I don't know but one would guess Germany or Japan. And I didn't compare Thailand to Germany or Japan.

Thai engineers may not be coming up with new ways to make a chassis more aerodynamic but they have figured out how to keep the factory running with Thai workers whose first priority is drinking whiskey and eating som tom. Now that is a feat of modern engineering. They take raw materials and produce a finished product and they do it on time and ship it on time and then go to lunch and eat som tom on time. The buses run on time that pick up the workers. They run past my house every day and in three years I have never seen one late. That takes maintenance and scheduling and a host of characters that have degrees in industrial engineering to pull off. It is not formula one racing it is simple factory engineering.

Let's just ignore that you're bezzie mates with Henry Ford for a minute, but Ford or Americans didn't design the GT40 they couldn't do it themselves. They got Eric Broadley of Lola to design it.

That would be British Eric Broadley of British company Lola with British John Wyer working with him. It was designed and built by British people in Britian.

The only American thing about the car was the engine block.

In 1967 the Mk IV GT40 would become the only entry designed and produced entirely within the United States to claim an overall win at Le Mans

A development of the original car not designed by Brits.

Ok I'll let you have one Le Mans win.

The GT40 is one of the finest cars produced by the US. Being that this is not USA vs UK I would like to add that this "across the pond" relationship has had a further chapter. When Ford decided to re-release the GT40 they made their designers and engineers drive the Lotus Elise (technically ground-breaking in car manufacture in SO many ways) as they wanted the GT40 to handle like the Elise does. That is a beautiful compliment to British engineering and shows humility from Ford in recognising brilliance and seeking to emulate.

I have to admit that the original GT40 always makes my top 10. The rest...British and Japanese. Another interesting factoid like this is that when Mazda decided it needed a market-winning 2 seater roadster they got the BGT design team out of their retirement homes and had them design the MX5 mk1. Totally unrelated and I forgot to include Thailand.

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

[StreetCowboy]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

[transam]

Original GT40, AC Cobra, Jenson were built in UK using USA V8 engines.

[chiangmaikelly]

...

Thailand's motor industry is entirely based off being cheap labour. There is nothing wrong about this and it feeds a LOT of families (nice move) but it does for engineering what McDonalds and KFC does for cooking.

Cooking is all about quality - delivering the same product, the same way, wherever you do it, and meeting requirements and expectations every time.

SC

One Ford plant in Rayong will buy 24 billion baht worth of local Thai supplies/parts to build its cars or 40% of the auto total. Almost 9000 new jobs will be created outside of Ford to produce this 24 billion worth of parts and equipment.

Who do you think is going to machine, cast or make those parts? Who do you think is going to design them? Who do you think will make the machines that produce the part?

I see them every day. Little machine shops. Just like used to be all around Detroit.

One time when I was a kid I designed and built an ashtray for Ford. It took me one engineer, two draftsmen, a wood pattern maker, die maker and a number of others. Much different now but the idea is the same. Ford has a drawing and they give it to a local who makes it and then Ford puts it together. It is like a puzzle with 40% of the parts made in Thailand.

I don't know what Ford makes or what it jobs out anymore. Do they make gears? They never used to. But I think you get the idea.

[farang000999]

One Ford plant in Rayong will buy 24 billion baht worth of local Thai supplies/parts to build its cars or 40% of the auto total. Almost 9000 new jobs will be created outside of Ford to produce this 24 billion worth of parts and equipment.

Who do you think is going to design them? Who do you think will make the machines that produce the part?

Foreigners.

The elites want it this way. They want a small ruling class that profits out of providing labor. Of cars being assembled in Thailand, the Thai contribution is physical labor. Not human or physical capital. The companies are not Thai. The machines are not Thai. The technology is not Thai. The labor is Thai. There is no reason why this cannot change except that the ruling class wishes it to remain this way, which means that in thirty years there will still be horny middle class European men coming to Thailand to find a poor gf thirty years their junior.

[chiangmaikelly]

One Ford plant in Rayong will buy 24 billion baht worth of local Thai supplies/parts to build its cars or 40% of the auto total. Almost 9000 new jobs will be created outside of Ford to produce this 24 billion worth of parts and equipment.

Who do you think is going to design them? Who do you think will make the machines that produce the part?

Foreigners.

The elites want it this way. They want a small ruling class that profits out of providing labor. Of cars being assembled in Thailand, the Thai contribution is physical labor. Not human or physical capital. The companies are not Thai. The machines are not Thai. The technology is not Thai. The labor is Thai. There is no reason why this cannot change except that the ruling class wishes it to remain this way, which means that in thirty years there will still be horny middle class European men coming to Thailand to find a poor gf thirty years their junior.

List of 141 universities in Thailand. The above is simply nonsense.

http://studyinthailand.org/study_abroad_thailand_university/university_college_thailand.html

[StreetCowboy]

One Ford plant in Rayong will buy 24 billion baht worth of local Thai supplies/parts to build its cars or 40% of the auto total. Almost 9000 new jobs will be created outside of Ford to produce this 24 billion worth of parts and equipment.

Who do you think is going to design them? Who do you think will make the machines that produce the part?

Foreigners.

The elites want it this way. They want a small ruling class that profits out of providing labor. Of cars being assembled in Thailand, the Thai contribution is physical labor. Not human or physical capital. The companies are not Thai. The machines are not Thai. The technology is not Thai. The labor is Thai. There is no reason why this cannot change except that the ruling class wishes it to remain this way, which means that in thirty years there will still be horny middle class European men coming to Thailand to find a poor gf thirty years their junior.

List of 141 universities in Thailand. The above is simply nonsense.

http://studyinthaila...e_thailand.html

I suppose sometimes its hard for us to conceal our contempt for our fellows, though we may try to dress it up as sympathy for their plight.

SC

Edited October 16, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[F1fanatic]

Since we are on the topic of British and cars....

Does anyone remember that episode of "Top Gear" where Jeremy and the boys drove cars through the American deep South (Alabama) with stuff like "Nascar sucks" and "I'm Bi" written on their cars?

I just kind of got to thinking that this thread is kind of like that...but in reverse.

Since we are on the topic of British and cars....

Does anyone remember that episode of "Top Gear" where Jeremy and the boys drove cars through the American deep South (Alabama) with stuff like "Nascar sucks" and "I'm Bi" written on their cars?

I just kind of got to thinking that this thread is kind of like that...but in reverse.

CMK, dude I gotta respect you for toughing it out in this thread.

Have you ever seen this reply from Rich Hall, one of the USA's finest comedians?

CMK, dude I gotta respect you for toughing it out in this thread.

Have you ever seen this reply from Rich Hall, one of the USA's finest comedians?

I found the Top Gear episode funny - but embarrassing as they took the joke too far.

The Rich Hall clip you posted was not at all funny (bearing in mind you say he is one of USA's finest comedians), but he made a good point about 'muscle cars'.

Mind you, Richard Hammond also loves 'muscle cars' and defends them on Top Gear....

[farang000999]

lol hopefully you at least learned a few things in this thread CMK and are less of a moron and everyone's time has not been fully wasted.

[chiangmaikelly]

lol hopefully you at least learned a few things in this thread CMK and are less of a moron and everyone's time has not been fully wasted.

What did I learn?

[StreetCowboy]

lol hopefully you at least learned a few things in this thread CMK and are less of a moron and everyone's time has not been fully wasted.

You missed "than I"; I'll let others figure out where it goes.

Wise men get so from learning, whether they find themselves on the easy side of an argument, or the more challenging.

SC

[chiangmaikelly]

One Ford plant in Rayong will buy 24 billion baht worth of local Thai supplies/parts to build its cars or 40% of the auto total. Almost 9000 new jobs will be created outside of Ford to produce this 24 billion worth of parts and equipment.

Who do you think is going to design them? Who do you think will make the machines that produce the part?

Foreigners.

The elites want it this way. They want a small ruling class that profits out of providing labor. Of cars being assembled in Thailand, the Thai contribution is physical labor. Not human or physical capital. The companies are not Thai. The machines are not Thai. The technology is not Thai. The labor is Thai. There is no reason why this cannot change except that the ruling class wishes it to remain this way, which means that in thirty years there will still be horny middle class European men coming to Thailand to find a poor gf thirty years their junior.

My wife is a Thai engineer. When we go out we go out with Thai engineers. Our neighbors are Thai engineers. I know what they do all day long. They design and manufacture products for companies all over the world. They make Thai machines. They make Thai refineries. They are executive engineers. There are 140 colleges and universities in Thailand that produce thousands of Thai engineers every year who work in Thailand. Sorry fella you are way off base.

[Rob8891]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

[chiangmaikelly]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Edited October 16, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[transam]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Did you know the UK Merlin engine HAD to be used in the USA built P51 fighter (1944/5) cos the USA motor couldn't do the job. Edited October 16, 2012 by transam

[chiangmaikelly]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Did you know the UK Merlin engine HAD to be used in the USA built P51 fighter (1944/5) cos the USA motor couldn't do the job.

Actually I know quite a bit about it and the history of the engine in in Thailand but gotta go now.

[farang000999]

My wife is a Thai engineer. When we go out we go out with Thai engineers. Our neighbors are Thai engineers. I know what they do all day long. They design and manufacture products for companies all over the world. They make Thai machines. They make Thai refineries. They are executive engineers. There are 140 colleges and universities in Thailand that produce thousands of Thai engineers every year who work in Thailand. Sorry fella you are way off base.

nice strawman there. you opened this little topic with a ridiculous rant about how Thailand is winning their (imaginary) battle with the UK for auto supremacy and cited the superiority of Thai engineering as the catalyst. then when everyone piled onto your series of inane posts you have tried to change the argument/imply that these people are bigoted and positioned yourself as if you are just trying to defend "thai engineering" when of course you are clearly the bigoted individual in the conversation.

[farang000999]

lol hopefully you at least learned a few things in this thread CMK and are less of a moron and everyone's time has not been fully wasted.

You missed "than I"; I'll let others figure out where it goes.

Wise men get so from learning, whether they find themselves on the easy side of an argument, or the more challenging.

SC

sure... that said, OP got a lot more attention in this topic than he deserved.

[chiangmaikelly]

My wife is a Thai engineer. When we go out we go out with Thai engineers. Our neighbors are Thai engineers. I know what they do all day long. They design and manufacture products for companies all over the world. They make Thai machines. They make Thai refineries. They are executive engineers. There are 140 colleges and universities in Thailand that produce thousands of Thai engineers every year who work in Thailand. Sorry fella you are way off base.

nice strawman there. you opened this little topic with a ridiculous rant about how Thailand is winning their (imaginary) battle with the UK for auto supremacy and cited the superiority of Thai engineering as the catalyst. then when everyone piled onto your series of inane posts you have tried to change the argument/imply that these people are bigoted and positioned yourself as if you are just trying to defend "thai engineering" when of course you are clearly the bigoted individual in the conversation.

My wife is a Thai engineer. When we go out we go out with Thai engineers. Our neighbors are Thai engineers. I know what they do all day long. They design and manufacture products for companies all over the world. They make Thai machines. They make Thai refineries. They are executive engineers. There are 140 colleges and universities in Thailand that produce thousands of Thai engineers every year who work in Thailand. Sorry fella you are way off base.

nice strawman there. you opened this little topic with a ridiculous rant about how Thailand is winning their (imaginary) battle with the UK for auto supremacy and cited the superiority of Thai engineering as the catalyst. then when everyone piled onto your series of inane posts you have tried to change the argument/imply that these people are bigoted and positioned yourself as if you are just trying to defend "thai engineering" when of course you are clearly the bigoted individual in the conversation.

I know Thai engineers and have for many years. You don't. It is pretty simple. There is nothing wrong with British engineering and nothing wrong with Thai engineering. British engineers work in the UK and Thai engineers work in Thailand. I believe it is you who can't accept the fact that Thai people can be engineers not I.

[chiangmaikelly]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Did you know the UK Merlin engine HAD to be used in the USA built P51 fighter (1944/5) cos the USA motor couldn't do the job.

Maybe you want to look up Packard V-1650 I believe they made 55,000 of them.

[transam]

I'm amazed that this thread is till going strong..... running longer than a Model T Ford, and more viscious than rats in a sack...CMK, you certainly have some staying power. I might not agree with you, but I certainly respect you!

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Did you know the UK Merlin engine HAD to be used in the USA built P51 fighter (1944/5) cos the USA motor couldn't do the job.

Maybe you want to look up Packard V-1650 I believe they made 55,000 of them.

I know, the US made the Rolls Royce V12 under license to fore fill wars demands. US Allison could not do the job.

[chiangmaikelly]

Did you know they used Ford Model T engines in the Franco Thai war (1940) in the tanks that helped to defeat the French.

Did you know the UK Merlin engine HAD to be used in the USA built P51 fighter (1944/5) cos the USA motor couldn't do the job.

Maybe you want to look up Packard V-1650 I believe they made 55,000 of them.

I know, the US made the Rolls Royce V12 under license to fore fill wars demands. US Allison could not do the job.

The first American version of the Merlin was the Packard Merlin 28 (Mark XX), designated the V-1650-1 by the American military. This engine used a single stage, two speed supercharger. As the Merlin 28, it was used for the Avro Lancaster bomber.

The real improvement Packard incorporated into the Merlin was adopting the Wright supercharger drive quill. This modification was designated the V-1650-3 and became known as the "high altitude" Merlin destined for the P-51.

[NeverSure]

I know, the US made the Rolls Royce V12 under license to fore fill wars demands. US Allison could not do the job.

Well, that doesn't have a lot to do with Thai auto production, but I'll stay with you. The Brits were as fine as it gets in that war, contributing a lot. In fact, the British had already been fighting for a few years and France and Italy had fallen to Hitler before the US even joined the fray.

The Normandy Invasion, or D-Day was about the Brits and the US liberating France and then going on through to Belgium and crushing Hitler's army at the Battle of The Bulge. My Dad was there. He's still alive and well at 95. He says the Brits are tougher than h3ll.

I already mentioned that the Brits invented radar and then gave it to the US right in the middle of that mess which destroyed any hope of air superiority by Hitler. The US and British bombers could suddenly see the German fighters in the dark and through the clouds and avoid them. Allied fighters could see German fighters and get above them and the dive from behind and devastate them.

I hope this doesn't degrade into a UK vs US topic because the Brits can hold their own.

What important invention have the Thais contributed to the industrial or electronics or electric eras? Just one, please? With all of their brilliant engineers, surely they invented the disk drive or RAM chips or the CPU or the TCP/IP model or something, right?

Surely?

Edited October 16, 2012 by NeverSure

[transam]

I knowwwwwwww, my point was the UK provided the best piston engine for the job at the time.

Though the fuel injected inverted V12 of the opposition was cool.