Thailand's War With The Uk

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

No the proof is not in the pudding - Controlled market access and some of the highest import tariffs in the world have skewed the market - which regardless is absolutely not proof of the existence of YOUR CLAIM that Thailand has Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques.

So come on CMK - You have made the claim - now give us some examples of Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques?

Or would you like to retract the claim?

I think that's why there is so much manufacturing in the UK - easy access to European markets. The fact that we consultants like Lotus doesn't make a great deal of difference to the numbers, and Proton are not about to switch production to the UK, unless they decide to seriously attack the European market; in which case they would probably go to one of the newer Eastern member states.

Malaysia has three domestic car manufacturers, at least two of whom are now producing their own distinctive models and achieving brand recognition. Unlike Thailand, Malaysia has managed to lift itself into the 20th century, and while primary production remains an important part of the economy, the country is aggressively trying to crawl its way up the added-value ladder, and the main thing holding it back now is its protectionism

SC

It should be pointed out that Thailand makes a couple of million cars and Malaysia makes a half a million. Big difference there eh?

Out of interest, how many of those cars are to indigenous designs for Thai brands, following Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques? And how much is assembly work for foreign models? The local support industry for the automotive industry has had a significant impact on application of quality techniques in Malaysia - along with foreign-owned electronics manufacturing (judging from the CVs that I see)

SC

Edited October 15, 2012 by StreetCowboy

[chiangmaikelly]

...

...

No the proof is not in the pudding - Controlled market access and some of the highest import tariffs in the world have skewed the market - which regardless is absolutely not proof of the existence of YOUR CLAIM that Thailand has Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques.

So come on CMK - You have made the claim - now give us some examples of Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques?

Or would you like to retract the claim?

I think that's why there is so much manufacturing in the UK - easy access to European markets. The fact that we consultants like Lotus doesn't make a great deal of difference to the numbers, and Proton are not about to switch production to the UK, unless they decide to seriously attack the European market; in which case they would probably go to one of the newer Eastern member states.

Malaysia has three domestic car manufacturers, at least two of whom are now producing their own distinctive models and achieving brand recognition. Unlike Thailand, Malaysia has managed to lift itself into the 20th century, and while primary production remains an important part of the economy, the country is aggressively trying to crawl its way up the added-value ladder, and the main thing holding it back now is its protectionism

SC

It should be pointed out that Thailand makes a couple of million cars and Malaysia makes a half a million. Big difference there eh?

Out of interest, how many of those cars are to indigenous designs for Thai brands, following Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques? And how much is assembly work for foreign models? The local support industry for the automotive industry has had a significant impact on application of quality techniques in Malaysia - along with foreign-owned electronics manufacturing (judging from the CVs that I see)

SC

That is an interesting question. Why don't you start a thread about it. This thread is about production of vehicles. It takes 100 engineers to produce a vehicle and 1 to design it. My interests are more in the production of autos.

[chiangmaikelly]

http://yaleglobal.ya...ent/shrimp-wars

When American wild pink shrimp caught in the ocean are sold for $18.99 a pound while farmed shrimp from Thailand are only sold at $7.99, the market is going to tilt.

War is a normal word when applied to many things beside actual war as demonstrated above. Beer wars, Fish wars. Fast food wars. Lighten up a bit. We are not all dour Scots.

@CMK.... Usually I find your posts intelligent and generally I find myself agreeing with your point of view, but this whole thread is ridiculous: it appears to be some sort of personal attack on the UK, based on some ethereal premise. Worse than that, it is now descending into resorting to personal insults. I've been following the thread, but have felt no compunction to post, for easons already stated. But enough is enough... earlier you reacted when someone queeried whether you were talking about sales or manufacturing, (at leas that referred to your thread title) Now you're introducing shrimps..... The thread, and IMO the OP are losing the plot. Considering some of your earlier responses, your recent comment telling anoth poster to "lighten up a bit" is highly hypocritical.

Perhaps you can point out where I have insulted anyone. I don't see it. A poster said I should not have used the word war. It is a common word to express competition hence the reference to shrimp wars. I have repeated my point a number of times. Thailand makes a lot of cars. This year or next Thailand will make more cars than the UK. That's all I wanted to get across.

Point taking, Thailand will make lots of cars for their owners got it, Thailand will be a hub -wonderful-fantastic-super & the UK is nothing.

We've covered cars, shrimp & currency what's next ? Thailand grows more mangoes than the UK ?

Just a flame. I didn't say anything you said. Thin skinned brigade for you I guess. Try quoting me or debating the topic. I don't like flames.

[WilliaminBKK]

Don't feed The Troll

+ 1

[chiangmaikelly]

http://yaleglobal.ya...ent/shrimp-wars

When American wild pink shrimp caught in the ocean are sold for $18.99 a pound while farmed shrimp from Thailand are only sold at $7.99, the market is going to tilt.

War is a normal word when applied to many things beside actual war as demonstrated above. Beer wars, Fish wars. Fast food wars. Lighten up a bit. We are not all dour Scots.

@CMK.... Usually I find your posts intelligent and generally I find myself agreeing with your point of view, but this whole thread is ridiculous: it appears to be some sort of personal attack on the UK, based on some ethereal premise. Worse than that, it is now descending into resorting to personal insults. I've been following the thread, but have felt no compunction to post, for easons already stated. But enough is enough... earlier you reacted when someone queeried whether you were talking about sales or manufacturing, (at leas that referred to your thread title) Now you're introducing shrimps..... The thread, and IMO the OP are losing the plot. Considering some of your earlier responses, your recent comment telling anoth poster to "lighten up a bit" is highly hypocritical.

Perhaps you can point out where I have insulted anyone. I don't see it. A poster said I should not have used the word war. It is a common word to express competition hence the reference to shrimp wars. I have repeated my point a number of times. Thailand makes a lot of cars. This year or next Thailand will make more cars than the UK. That's all I wanted to get across.

I only disagree with Rob8891 in that i don't think you lost the plot as I thought you had your tongue very firmly through your cheek from the start.

As others have suggested your use of the word "war" and a comparison with the UK in this context is about as bogus as you can get - and by using it you obfuscated the message that you said you wanted to get across - if that was really your intent

It is true. It was easy to attack how I said Thailand makes more cars than the UK rather than debate the fact that Thailand makes more cars than the UK. But neither was really the point. The next fall back position of people who dislike Thailand even subconsciously was to point Thailand does not design the cars. That was not my point either and has nothing to do with what I said. The next position was to point out government tariffs in Thailand and again that had nothing to do with my point. Thailand makes a lot of cars. Thailand has a lot of engineering expertise in the manufacture of cars that's why they make more every year and have done so for 40 years. Drive along the East coast of Thailand and go to Mataphut industrial area. It is awesome. Little shops, big shops, refineries, welding shops, tool and die makers; the place is packed with business. Buses pick up the employees for three shifts all day and night the factories turn out cars and steel and other products. No union problems, no energy problems. Big houses in big new gated communities are all over the place. Thai companies and multi national companies. I can't get people to work on my lawn everybody is working in factories. A lot of skilled labor and a lot of trained labor no one works for minimum wages here. New houses, new cars, new clothes this is boom town Thailand. Making a couple of million cars makes a whole lot of other industries.

[chiangmaikelly]

Don't feed The Troll

+ 1

Don't even read the troll. Burn the books. He said something you disagree with, he must be a troll.

[StreetCowboy]

Not trying to turn this into a "Brit bash"...but, man you guys made some really really crappy awful cars.

British Leyland

The XJS and XJ6 of 1970's and 80's.

MG's, Jensen's, ...the Range Rover's of the 80's and 90's.

Austin princess, Austin Allegro

Morris Marina

lest not forget Lucas electrical systems.

AKA The Prince of Darkness.

The inventor of the first intermittent wiper.

The inventor of the first intermittent headlight.

Q: Why do Brits drink warm beer? A:Lucas refrigerators.

The Top Ten Worst British Cars as Chosen by the British themselves:

http://digitaljourna.../article/258458

http://top10.com/top...st-british-cars

I think you are totally wrong on all points. In fact l have owned, driven or worked on all you rides mentioned. You every worked on a Datsun of the era ?

Ah my dear Transam, so I suppose you shall be changing your Thaivisa Nick from "transam" to "morrismarina"?

Now my thoughts are I was never a mechanic by profession or choice, but rather out of necessity (usually standing at the side of the road in the pouring rain trying to figure out "how do I get this sh*t to work"?)

My dear brother had a Datsun 280ZX turbo. Never had the opportunity to really work on it (outside of the oil change), cuz it never really broke down. He moved on to Porsches. I think he still to this day regrets selling the 280zx.

I must admit I have never really owned a British car. This was after driving my friends' British cars and having to listen to their horror stories. Of course in America, there were not too many British offerings really. In my younger days (and actually to this day) the only British cars available for sale brand new in the US are the Jaguar, Range Rover/Land Rover, the Bentley, and the Rolls Royce. Everyone of my friends who owned a Jaguar (xj6 or xjs) told me not to buy one. (PS it is a common thing in the USA to swap in a small block v8 into a Jag, even to this day.)

Really the only British offering I would really want are a Land Rover Defender, an Ariel Atom or a Caterham 7.

The car that got me through college was an Alfa Romeo spider. POS. I don't trust the Italians either. The Italians know how to engineer "sexy" into their cars, just no "reliability" or "ease of maintenance". Whenever something went wrong my thoughts were "what kind of idiot would put that part there so I have to tear apart the entire <deleted>' car to get to it"? The same garage I went to also worked on Ferrari's, Lamborghini's, Maserati's (it was actually Alfa Milano on La Cienega in Los Angeles, which is the location that the garage scene in "Gone in 60 Seconds" with Nick Cage and Angelina Jolie was filmed at). So when my POS Alfa would break down, I would go there. And I would see fairly late model Ferrari's that were all torn apart. Like it looked like they were in an accident or had something majorly wrong, like a blown engine. I'd ask my mechanic, Aquilles (ah the joys of having an actual Italian mechanic from Italy) about it. Nah...it was just the 30k mile service (which apparently runs $10-15k on a Ferrari). So whereas the Japanese would make the common parts that need servicing easy to reach, the Italians just didn't care that you had to tear apart their cars.

My thoughts are (1) Italians--know how to design sexy into cars, cars are still crap in terms of reliability (and yeah and I mean still crap to this day because I will never fully trust the Italians to design and build cars) (2) British know how to add elegance to their cars, crap in terms of reliability historically (though I understand has improved a great deal as of late) (3) Japanese know how to design reliability and durability but don't really understand "style" (not until fairly recently at least) (4) German--pretty good style (if you dig the "Teutonic" thing), good reliability, however if it goes wrong it will be expensive (5) American--not too hot at either styling or build quality but at least fairly easy to work on (let's face it, for years all the USA did was shove the same small block V8 into all the vehicles--the trucks, the sports cars, the sports coupes, the luxury sedans, the station wagons, such that the combo was pretty much perfected).

It must be great to have such a range of stereotypes by which to live your life.

I was a bit nervous about driving a Proton, but it has not let me down yet, and its a pleasant enough car to drive. I have to avoid washing it, so that I can recognise it in the car park amongst the others...

[StreetCowboy]

I think that's why there is so much manufacturing in the UK - easy access to European markets. The fact that we consultants like Lotus doesn't make a great deal of difference to the numbers, and Proton are not about to switch production to the UK, unless they decide to seriously attack the European market; in which case they would probably go to one of the newer Eastern member states.

Malaysia has three domestic car manufacturers, at least two of whom are now producing their own distinctive models and achieving brand recognition. Unlike Thailand, Malaysia has managed to lift itself into the 20th century, and while primary production remains an important part of the economy, the country is aggressively trying to crawl its way up the added-value ladder, and the main thing holding it back now is its protectionism

SC

It should be pointed out that Thailand makes a couple of million cars and Malaysia makes a half a million. Big difference there eh?

Out of interest, how many of those cars are to indigenous designs for Thai brands, following Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques? And how much is assembly work for foreign models? The local support industry for the automotive industry has had a significant impact on application of quality techniques in Malaysia - along with foreign-owned electronics manufacturing (judging from the CVs that I see)

SC

That is an interesting question. Why don't you start a thread about it. This thread is about production of vehicles. It takes 100 engineers to produce a vehicle and 1 to design it. My interests are more in the production of autos.

That's not my experience. My experience is it takes a few robots to build thousands of cars, and a couple of chaps to push the assemblies around and do some of the fiddly work. The engineers all sit upstairs running simulations on pressings, and designing test jigs for endurance testing door hinges and so forth. In the event that Thailand sees the need to get rid of its tariffs on imported cars, then the production will move elsewhere, since Japanese robots can be equally easily installed in Vietnam or China or India, and the Eastern Seaboard will become the Detroit of the Orient... perhaps a recording studio would be a good investment, to capture the talent of the migrant workers?

SC

[Trembly]

If the OP wants a knob waving contest perhaps he can answer how many Thai companies manufacture cars. All of the manufactuing in Thailand is from foreign companies.

All the manufacturing in the UK is from foreign companies too now I believe isn't it?

Thailand does have one small fully domestic owned company that manufactures cars. Thai Rung manufactures a small number of cars, both military and civilian under their own brand.

There is another company, Chaiseri, that manufactures military vehicles.

Additionally, unlike many other countries, virtually the entire car is manufactured in Thailand and it is not just assembled like in most other countries. And the majority of the parts companies that supply the foreign brands in Thailand are completely Thai owned or majority Thai owned.

Regardless, the auto industry in Thailand is booming. Production is estimated at 2.2 million units this year. Sales are estimated at 1.3 million. It won't be long now before Thailand is not only manufacturing more units per year than many countries in Europe, but selling more as well. They already sell more than medium sized EU countries like Spain, they are getting close to countries like the UK now too and in another decade will probably surpass them.

Like every other company in Thailand then.

[arthurwait]

Really the only British offering I would really want are a Land Rover Defender, an Ariel Atom or a Caterham 7.

You don't like Aston Martins or Lotus's or Nobles or Mclarens or Morgans or Ascaris or Bentleys or Caparo or Ginetta or Westfield ?

Yes a couple are foreign owned, but so are caterham.

Or any of the other cars from hundreds of our cottage industry car manufacturers. I quite like the Ultima myself.

[chiangmaikelly]

It should be pointed out that Thailand makes a couple of million cars and Malaysia makes a half a million. Big difference there eh?

Out of interest, how many of those cars are to indigenous designs for Thai brands, following Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques? And how much is assembly work for foreign models? The local support industry for the automotive industry has had a significant impact on application of quality techniques in Malaysia - along with foreign-owned electronics manufacturing (judging from the CVs that I see)

SC

That is an interesting question. Why don't you start a thread about it. This thread is about production of vehicles. It takes 100 engineers to produce a vehicle and 1 to design it. My interests are more in the production of autos.

That's not my experience. My experience is it takes a few robots to build thousands of cars, and a couple of chaps to push the assemblies around and do some of the fiddly work. The engineers all sit upstairs running simulations on pressings, and designing test jigs for endurance testing door hinges and so forth. In the event that Thailand sees the need to get rid of its tariffs on imported cars, then the production will move elsewhere, since Japanese robots can be equally easily installed in Vietnam or China or India, and the Eastern Seaboard will become the Detroit of the Orient... perhaps a recording studio would be a good investment, to capture the talent of the migrant workers?

SC

This year Ford spent 14 billion baht in Rayong on a new plant and GM 6 billion baht. I don't see them moving and I doubt you do either!

[StreetCowboy]

...

...

Out of interest, how many of those cars are to indigenous designs for Thai brands, following Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques? And how much is assembly work for foreign models? The local support industry for the automotive industry has had a significant impact on application of quality techniques in Malaysia - along with foreign-owned electronics manufacturing (judging from the CVs that I see)

SC

That is an interesting question. Why don't you start a thread about it. This thread is about production of vehicles. It takes 100 engineers to produce a vehicle and 1 to design it. My interests are more in the production of autos.

That's not my experience. My experience is it takes a few robots to build thousands of cars, and a couple of chaps to push the assemblies around and do some of the fiddly work. The engineers all sit upstairs running simulations on pressings, and designing test jigs for endurance testing door hinges and so forth. In the event that Thailand sees the need to get rid of its tariffs on imported cars, then the production will move elsewhere, since Japanese robots can be equally easily installed in Vietnam or China or India, and the Eastern Seaboard will become the Detroit of the Orient... perhaps a recording studio would be a good investment, to capture the talent of the migrant workers?

SC

This year Ford spent 14 billion baht in Rayong on a new plant and GM 6 billion baht. I don't see them moving and I doubt you do either!

Not until the plants need upgrading in a few years. There's plenty of rusting investment around the world that highlights the ephemeral nature of industry.

Is half a billion dollars a lot for a car plant?

SC

[chiangmaikelly]

That is an interesting question. Why don't you start a thread about it. This thread is about production of vehicles. It takes 100 engineers to produce a vehicle and 1 to design it. My interests are more in the production of autos.

That's not my experience. My experience is it takes a few robots to build thousands of cars, and a couple of chaps to push the assemblies around and do some of the fiddly work. The engineers all sit upstairs running simulations on pressings, and designing test jigs for endurance testing door hinges and so forth. In the event that Thailand sees the need to get rid of its tariffs on imported cars, then the production will move elsewhere, since Japanese robots can be equally easily installed in Vietnam or China or India, and the Eastern Seaboard will become the Detroit of the Orient... perhaps a recording studio would be a good investment, to capture the talent of the migrant workers?

SC

This year Ford spent 14 billion baht in Rayong on a new plant and GM 6 billion baht. I don't see them moving and I doubt you do either!

Not until the plants need upgrading in a few years. There's plenty of rusting investment around the world that highlights the ephemeral nature of industry.

Is half a billion dollars a lot for a car plant?

SC

14 billion baht is a lot of money for anything.

[submaniac]

It must be great to have such a range of stereotypes by which to live your life.

I was a bit nervous about driving a Proton, but it has not let me down yet, and its a pleasant enough car to drive. I have to avoid washing it, so that I can recognise it in the car park amongst the others...

Streetcowboy drives a Proton? I always pictured you with something like this:

You have ruined the mystique for me.

Really the only British offering I would really want are a Land Rover Defender, an Ariel Atom or a Caterham 7.

You don't like Aston Martins or Lotus's or Nobles or Mclarens or Morgans or Ascaris or Bentleys or Caparo or Ginetta or Westfield ?

Yes a couple are foreign owned, but so are caterham.

Or any of the other cars from hundreds of our cottage industry car manufacturers. I quite like the Ultima myself.

Aston Martin=like, but expensive so wouldn't realistically own.

McClaren=see above

Morgans=forgot about them, but yes would own

Lotus=don't like Elise; like esprit though. Especially liked the sound of the twin turbo V8. The sound of turbos spooling coupled with a masculine V8 roar--yes.

Bentley=submaniac is not a rap music mogul

Rolls Royce=see above

Noble=south african

Ultima=looks too much like a kit car Porsche 917

Ascari=know nothing about

Capara, Ginetta=see above

Caterham=yes

Westfield=same as Caterham

Land Rover/Range Rover=only one I would consider is the Defender, a true off road military machine. Defender was only officially imported to US for a few years in the 1990's, and they are still fetching $30k USD because they are collector's items. In Thailand, Defenders are ridiculously expensive. Everything else I consider a glorified station wagon. Evocque is ugly.

Ariel Atom=brilliant idea and great engineering; unfortunately not officially US imported or available in Thailand.

Jaguar=don't really trust. I like the E type, but they are finicky in terms of reliability and maintenance. The XJ6 drove like a Ford Taurus, so kind of bland for my tastes. The XJS I had a love hate relationship. Thought it was beautiful on the outside. Kind of cramped on the inside. Didn't like that the hood was so long and I could never tell where the bumper was in the parking lot.

Triumph TR7/TR8=umm...no...reliability issues.

Triumph TR6=reliability issues but at least was really cool.

[geriatrickid]

And the reactors for the UK nuclear submarine fleet and gas turbines for the Royal Navy and other marine uses. We also build trains that are exported worldwide.

Oh yes, those submarines the UK unloaded on Canada were so well built.

[StreetCowboy]

It must be great to have such a range of stereotypes by which to live your life.

I was a bit nervous about driving a Proton, but it has not let me down yet, and its a pleasant enough car to drive. I have to avoid washing it, so that I can recognise it in the car park amongst the others...

Streetcowboy drives a Proton? I always pictured you with something like this:

You have ruined the mystique for me.

....

Just me and my driver...

[chiangmaikelly]

And the reactors for the UK nuclear submarine fleet and gas turbines for the Royal Navy and other marine uses. We also build trains that are exported worldwide.

Oh yes, those submarines the UK unloaded on Canada were so well built.

I could have done the whole thread about Canada but what kind of response would I have gotten?

How many Canadians post here 3 or 4 and they are mostly polite. If anything overly polite.

All I wanted to do is wake up some people about the Thai economy which is doing quite well.

To contrast Thailand with Canada hardly is a rip roaring thread eh? Thailand's war with Canada? Ho hum; two posts and the thread dies.

On the other hand Brits come on full bore. 2000 views in a day.

[arthurwait]

Aston Martin=like, but expensive so wouldn't realistically own.

McClaren=see above

Morgans=forgot about them, but yes would own

Lotus=don't like Elise; like esprit though. Especially liked the sound of the twin turbo V8. The sound of turbos spooling coupled with a masculine V8 roar--yes.

Bentley=submaniac is not a rap music mogul

Rolls Royce=see above

Noble=south african

Noble still put together in Leicestershire somewhere I believe. Founded by a Brit. The designer of the ultima.

You don't like the Elise ??? What ?????? I suppose it was designed by a Thai.

Caparo.

[arthurwait]

Ginetta

[arthurwait]

[arthurwait]

And one of the originals, Ginetta G4, now manufactured by the founders the Walklett Brothers under the name Dare.

[transam]

And the reactors for the UK nuclear submarine fleet and gas turbines for the Royal Navy and other marine uses. We also build trains that are exported worldwide.

Oh yes, those submarines the UK unloaded on Canada were so well built.

Canada bought old ''Warn Out'' stuff that their engineers passed.

[chiangmaikelly]

And the reactors for the UK nuclear submarine fleet and gas turbines for the Royal Navy and other marine uses. We also build trains that are exported worldwide.

Oh yes, those submarines the UK unloaded on Canada were so well built.

Canada bought old ''Warn Out'' stuff that their engineers passed.

I defy you to turn it into a bash Canada thread. It just don't happen. Take the cops. The Royal Canadian Mounted Police always get their man right?

"The Winnipeg Free Press reports a Manitoba court ordered four “chronic” car thieves to attend counseling sessions, to learn the error of their ways."

Ok I'll try. Thai cars are a lot better than Canadian cars. Now watch what happens.

[samran]

I think this conversation boils down to essentially that every country basically protects their car manufacturing industry - if not behind tariff walls then with subsidies, tax breaks or bail-outs. Car manufacturing is a bit like national airlines. You really want one if you want to view yourself as an important country - regarless of the cost.

This plays well into the Auto company's hands. And they play it up for all it is worth.

What is evident is Thailand is a relatively important cog in the Asia Pacific supply chain for auto manufacturers. It will more or less continue to be thus. A couple of auto execs I know prefer being in Thailand over China - but for them from a personal perspective that is more a lifestyle thing than a economic decision.

But given that I know people who have set up entire and substantial regional HQ's in Thailand because they prefer the nightlife, you can't dismiss that aspect of the attraction to Thaiand as an intangible for being based here. That and the government incentives.

Beyond that, there isn't much sensible you can say about this industry in the context of the OP's heading.

Edited October 15, 2012 by samran

[Rob8891]

CMK said "The reason the Thai baht has risen and the UK and US currencies have gone down is in part because of the health and future of the Thai auto industry among many other things."

And in all seriousness how much do you think the Thai auto industry affected the UK and US currencies' decline compared with the banking crisis? Come on, man, get a grip. You've put up a good fight: I really do respect the way you've fought your corner, but you're punch-drunk now.

[a99az]

My award would go to the country that produces the least number of cars and who's people use public transport.

[transam]

My award would go to the country that produces the least number of cars and who's people use public transport.

Does your baht bus have air con. ?

[KKvampire]

If Romney was president back in 2009 the USA wouldnt have a car industry today.The Yank in ChiangMai thank the President who saved General Motors

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

[GuestHouse]

CMK we are STILL WAITING for you yo give us examples to back up YOUR CLAIM that Thailand has Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques.

Give us some examples of these Superior Thai Engineering and Production Techniques.

Or admit you can't think of any!

[kblaze]

If Romney was president back in 2009 the USA wouldnt have a car industry today.The Yank in ChiangMai thank the President who saved General Motors

Sent from my LG-P350 using Thaivisa Connect App

Wrong, GM would have been restructured and sold, as would the other car companies that received a bailout. The industry would be damaged but it wouldn't disappear.Also, who is the Yank in CM? The OP is Canadian from what I have read.

My favorite parts of this thread (wasted 2 hours of work productivity reading it);

1) the well written responses from British members who im sure were seething to some degree inside but managed nevertheless to remain within the confines of their British politeness.

2) CMK steadfastly defending his position in the face of hordes of dissenters...and seemingly reveling in the attention.

and 3) The Blether getting offended at the title...lol.

Edited October 15, 2012 by kblaze