Thai Democrats Ordered Use Of Snipers: Korkaew

[jayboy]

I'm not trying to provoke but I'm genuinely puzzled.Do you mean the drugs war during his premiership, although he has never been charged with that?

What has being charged got to with what crimes he (or Abhisit) is alleged to have committed?

To recap, you stated that Abhisit's alleged crimes were arguably more serious than Thaksin's alleged crimes.

So what is it? You think that Thaksin isn't alleged to have been involved in the deaths of thousands of innocent people, or you think he is, but those deaths, though in far far greater number, were somehow less serious?

So you are talking about the drugs war (I think!).To give you a straight answer I do believe that Abhisit's alleged involvement in murder of protestors would be judged by an impartial observer to be more serious than those of Thaksin in the ill considered and brutal drugs war which, given the misery the drugs trade causes, had the support of most Thais - from the pinnacle to the bottom.That is why he has never been charged - the objective was a sound one.

[jayboy]

Normally those who illegally participate in the seizure of installations such as airports are known as terrorists.

...

No, they are not.

Terrorism is the widespread use of terror to achieve a goal. For example threatening to burn down the capital of a country unless the demands of a group are met. But you don't call those people terrorists, do you?

I said I would accept the term "absurd plonker" in lieu of "terrorist".Happy now?

[jayboy]

Normally those who illegally participate in the seizure of installations such as airports are known as terrorists.I'm not tied to this term however and would equally be happy with "absurd plonker"

For someone who likes to belittle others on their use of the English language you write interesting constructions. I mean, can one 'legally' participate in the seizure of installations such as airports ?

It's a fair cop, guv.

[rubl]

The most serious alleged offence you can think of relations to Abhisit's direct involvement as Prime Minister in the murder of unarmed Thais and foreigners on the streets of Bangkok.(You forgot to mention the last part)

Thaksin could have avoided many of the charges of against him if he had put in place a blind trust (of the type Romney will institute if he wins).We know also froom Wikileaks and elsewhere that even though the charges against Thaksin are relatively trivial, the establishment was out to nail him on any pretext.Some of the charges like the lottery action are just plain ridiculous.This is why no country took the terrorist Kasit's calls for extradition seriously - obviously politically motivated.None of this suggests that Thaksin isn't corrupt and unfit for purpose, but his crimes are not in the same league as those alleged of Abhisit.The latter would in some jurisdictions if proved warrant the death penalty, Thaksin's in contrast if proved a short stretch inside.

Goh, serious charges, murder, death penalty and so on. Only thing missing is "I'm not in favour of Thaksin, but ..."

The deadliest bullshit is odorless and transparent"

William Gibson

Anyway the topic is a Pheu Thai party list MP and former UDD leader saying a police officer had once told him that the Democrat government had given security officers the green light to deploy snipers for crowd control. He didn't really seem to have been told details by the police officer, like which type of crowd and how to avoid 'friendly' fire with militants mingling with peaceful protesters. Of course, as former UDD leader the MP Korkaew doesn't know anything about militants, only that 'we did nothing wrong, it was the government and PM 'kill me some' Abhisit'. Just continue hammering, one of these days all may believe the UDD story

[rixalex]

Normally those who illegally participate in the seizure of installations such as airports are known as terrorists.

They didn't seize they occupied. Occupy London did something similar with St Paul's Cathedral last year that caused it to close down because of safety concerns. (note the word similar before all the predictable "ah but that wasn't the same" type comments come rolling in)

If you are going to call someone a terrorist - a serious thing to do right? - i think you should stand by the comment. Don't throw it our there and then quickly sneakily back-track with a "oh yes but i'm not tied to that term" type cop-out comment.

[jayboy]

Normally those who illegally participate in the seizure of installations such as airports are known as terrorists.

They didn't seize they occupied. Occupy London did something similar with St Paul's Cathedral last year that caused it to close down because of safety concerns. (note the word similar before all the predictable "ah but that wasn't the same" type comments come rolling in)

If you are going to call someone a terrorist - a serious thing to do right? - i think you should stand by the comment. Don't throw it our there and then quickly sneakily back-track with a "oh yes but i'm not tied to that term" type cop-out comment.

Call him a terrorist then.Call him what you like.Why are you arguing pedantically about this useless and incompetent jerk who undoubtedly deserved a spell in jail for his airport fun.

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.I don't believe the St Paul's occupiers were doing the country millions of $ damage.

Edited October 24, 2012 by jayboy

[rixalex]

So you are talking about the drugs war (I think!).To give you a straight answer I do believe that Abhisit's alleged involvement in murder of protestors would be judged by an impartial observer to be more serious than those of Thaksin in the ill considered and brutal drugs war which, given the misery the drugs trade causes, had the support of most Thais - from the pinnacle to the bottom.That is why he has never been charged - the objective was a sound one.

If we are talking objectives, i don't think there was anything unsound about Abhisit's objective in trying to clear Bangkok's streets of further rioting. Surely the problem wasn't with his objective, it was with how he is alleged to have gone about that task. Thaksin's alleged crime is surely the same. Nobody questions the soundness of the objective of clearing up the drugs problem, people question the methods that were employed, in particular, the alleged shoot to kill policy.

As for the old "it had the support of most Thais" chestnut (that is brought out each and every time the war on drugs is discussed here), it's a complete irrelevance. As if policy popularity with the public somehow removes culpability from those in charge when the policy turns out a tragic disaster. When the government unveils a plan to build a new bridge across the Gulf of Thailand, and it is warmly received by all, do we shift the blame away from the people who built it, when the bridge collapses and kills hundreds, because after all, it is what the people wanted?

[rubl]

begin removed ...

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.I don't believe the St Paul's occupiers were doing the country millions of $ damage.

'fascist occupation' ? Rhetoric which should be avoided. Before you know it someone will start talking about the UDD commissars who help the suppressed proletariat to rise against the feudalistic capitalist bourgeoisie. Karl Marx already argued that it was the goal of the proletariat to displace the capitalist system with the dictatorship of the proletariat, abolishing the social relationships underpinning the class system and then developing into a communist society in which "the free development of each is the condition for the free development of all." History seems to have learned us (or should I say 'only some') that that doesn't work well.

[rixalex]

Call him a terrorist then.Call him what you like.Why are you arguing pedantically about this useless and incompetent jerk who undoubtedly deserved a spell in jail for his airport fun.

I don't think the matter of whether someone is or someone isn't a terrorist, is a pedantic matter. As ricardo said earlier in this thread, when exaggerations are made, it tends to end up being rather self-defeating in terms of the point being made.

As for why are you arguing pedantically about this useless and incompetent jerk... please a penny for every time i have had that exact same thought about you regarding another certain jerk....

[rixalex]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

[jayboy]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

I'm surprised you don't compare the yellow horde and their fascist leadership with the twelve apostles.You have truly lost touch with reality.

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[Theoutsider]

So where are the snipers?

Unlike MiB and red-shirt snipers, the army snipers were more visible

Courtesy of a late lamented friend

Now that's a sniper:)

He was probably taking orders form afar for 500bht.

Made it easier for his sister to sweep to power.

[yoshiwara]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

I'm surprised you don't compare the yellow horde and their fascist leadership with the twelve apostles.You have truly lost touch with reality.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

speaking of losing touch with reality........

[rixalex]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

I'm surprised you don't compare the yellow horde and their fascist leadership with the twelve apostles.You have truly lost touch with reality.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

You've gone from daft exaggeration to try and underline a point, to silly misrepresentation of someone else's view to try and ridicule it. For someone who regularly bemoans the poor level of debate here, you aren't doing much yourself to raise it.

[yourauntbob]

yoshiwara

"Bogus from beginning to end. The suggestion that the reds were peaceful until fired upon is a blatant lie.

And not surprising when another fake is injected that an elected government was overthrown (not true) and replaced by the opposition (also not true)

And then we have the 'I don't care if a few of them have weapons'. That would be the few no doubt who were fully supported by the speakers urging the burning down of Bangkok applauded by the supporters waving their kids on the barricades and the supporters trying to set light to a petrol tanker or maybe the supporters setting fire to local town halls.

The whole diatribe a paeon to Thaksin. No relationship whatsoever to actual events. Another Che wannabe though this time in the bizarre camouflage of a pro-capitalist T-shirt.

Yo! Come to Thailand and reinvent yourself as a hero. Not. "

For some reason, TV will not let me quote the above normally.

WOW, this is the first time in my life I have been compared to Che, and quite frankly I am very insulted. You are so blinded by your hatred that your unwilling to even look at the other side. It also says something that you spend most of your time tearing me down instead of supporting your arguement, another Obama want to be camouflaged in a pro-capitalist T shirt.

p.s. maybe i was loose with the "i dont care" bit, maybe it should have stated "even if they were"

[hellodolly]

Sorry I have been ignoring this thread as idiotic.

But it just occurred to me if the army was using snipers why wasn't the death toll higher and why were the red shirted clowns not shot when they were prancing around the stage urging the armed peaceful hospital invading protestors to burn down Bangkok.

[rubl]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

I'm surprised you don't compare the yellow horde and their fascist leadership with the twelve apostles.You have truly lost touch with reality

I'm not surprised rixalex doesn't compare the 'yellow horde and their fascist leadership' with the 'twelve apostles'. If he did he would be really out of touch. You even just mentioning this seem to be out of it somewhat.

'Yellow horde' as in 'yellow peril' is a stereotype of East Asians, the use of which is to be frowned upon as discriminatory remarks uttered by other colour racist. On the other hand there is a Norwegian Football club FK Bodø/Glimt whose supporters are know as Den Gule Horde" (The Yellow Horde) seemingly for their yellow kits and not for having a fascist leadership

BTW if you would start to compare the PAD and their leaders with the UDD and their leaders you might be on the right track.

[jayboy]

I'm not surprised rixalex doesn't compare the 'yellow horde and their fascist leadership' with the 'twelve apostles'. If he did he would be really out of touch. You even just mentioning this seem to be out of it somewhat.

It's called sarcasm.He did compare the yellow mob with the occupiers at St Paul's which is lunacy beyond any sarcastic take down I have to agree.Next we'll be hearing that stale old mantra (so popular with dimmer kind of expat reactionary) about the AOT being responsible for the airport close down for elf and safety reasons

Not sure what all the shock horror indignation is all about in response to my reference to PAD fascism.The PAD and yellow shirt leadership showed many of the fascist characteristcs leadership - as does for example Dr Tui currently.To be fair I do not and in fact never have suggested this is the case with the PAD rank and file.Certainly there was a violent thuggish element but most in the early stages were decent if sometimes misguided citizens.

[rixalex]

It's called sarcasm.He did compare the yellow mob with the occupiers at St Paul's which is lunacy beyond any sarcastic take down I have to agree.

It might be somewhere on the edge of lunacy to say that both situations were exactly the same, but I didn't say that. I said they were similar. How? Both were reasonably peaceful. Both ended without destruction or what you could really call violence. Both resulted in the place in which they occupied having to be shut for safety reasons. Both would not be described by any reasonably thinker as being acts of terrorism. Acts of disruption and disorder, most certainly yes, acts of terrorism, now come on, the only people who would describe the PAD sit in at the airport in those terms would be precisely the same people who argue that the red protest of 2010 in Bangkok was peaceful. So please take a break from telling me how ridiculous the comparison is, and actually explain why.

Next we'll be hearing that stale old mantra (so popular with dimmer kind of expat reactionary) about the AOT being responsible for the airport close down for elf and safety reasons

No you won't be hearing that because that is not what i think or what i have ever said. In fact if you recall i am one of those that has always ridiculed that particular argument. So stop inventing silly things that you imagine i am arguing, and actually argue against what i am saying... or don't argue at all...

[khunken]

I'm not surprised rixalex doesn't compare the 'yellow horde and their fascist leadership' with the 'twelve apostles'. If he did he would be really out of touch. You even just mentioning this seem to be out of it somewhat.

It's called sarcasm.He did compare the yellow mob with the occupiers at St Paul's which is lunacy beyond any sarcastic take down I have to agree.Next we'll be hearing that stale old mantra (so popular with dimmer kind of expat reactionary) about the AOT being responsible for the airport close down for elf and safety reasons

Not sure what all the shock horror indignation is all about in response to my reference to PAD fascism.The PAD and yellow shirt leadership showed many of the fascist characteristcs leadership - as does for example Dr Tui currently.To be fair I do not and in fact never have suggested this is the case with the PAD rank and file.Certainly there was a violent thuggish element but most in the early stages were decent if sometimes misguided citizens.

Rubbish. You have no idea when & how the yellow shirts were formed. They started as a protest movement against the corrupt privatisation of PTT around 2003 & included trade union members of SRT & Thai Air. They then grew when Thaksin tried to privatise EGAT without any proper regulator in place. Sonthi & Chamlong joined later, with their supporters. In other words they were a protest group trying to prevent Thailand moving towards a Fascist dictatorship under Thaksin.

They are now a nationalist group who have no fascist leader, unlike the aforementioned Thaksin. I don't support many of their aims except their rightful concerns about the current politically & morally corrupt leadership & where it is leading Thailand.

[rixalex]

And jayboy, i'm still interested in your response to this, if you care to give it:

So you are talking about the drugs war (I think!).To give you a straight answer I do believe that Abhisit's alleged involvement in murder of protestors would be judged by an impartial observer to be more serious than those of Thaksin in the ill considered and brutal drugs war which, given the misery the drugs trade causes, had the support of most Thais - from the pinnacle to the bottom.That is why he has never been charged - the objective was a sound one.

If we are talking objectives, i don't think there was anything unsound about Abhisit's objective in trying to clear Bangkok's streets of further rioting. Surely the problem wasn't with his objective, it was with how he is alleged to have gone about that task. Thaksin's alleged crime is surely the same. Nobody questions the soundness of the objective of clearing up the drugs problem, people question the methods that were employed, in particular, the alleged shoot to kill policy.

As for the old "it had the support of most Thais" chestnut (that is brought out each and every time the war on drugs is discussed here), it's a complete irrelevance. As if policy popularity with the public somehow removes culpability from those in charge when the policy turns out a tragic disaster. When the government unveils a plan to build a new bridge across the Gulf of Thailand, and it is warmly received by all, do we shift the blame away from the people who built it, when the bridge collapses and kills hundreds, because after all, it is what the people wanted?

[jayboy]

I'm not surprised rixalex doesn't compare the 'yellow horde and their fascist leadership' with the 'twelve apostles'. If he did he would be really out of touch. You even just mentioning this seem to be out of it somewhat.

It's called sarcasm.He did compare the yellow mob with the occupiers at St Paul's which is lunacy beyond any sarcastic take down I have to agree.Next we'll be hearing that stale old mantra (so popular with dimmer kind of expat reactionary) about the AOT being responsible for the airport close down for elf and safety reasons

Not sure what all the shock horror indignation is all about in response to my reference to PAD fascism.The PAD and yellow shirt leadership showed many of the fascist characteristcs leadership - as does for example Dr Tui currently.To be fair I do not and in fact never have suggested this is the case with the PAD rank and file.Certainly there was a violent thuggish element but most in the early stages were decent if sometimes misguided citizens.

Rubbish. You have no idea when & how the yellow shirts were formed. They started as a protest movement against the corrupt privatisation of PTT around 2003 & included trade union members of SRT & Thai Air. They then grew when Thaksin tried to privatise EGAT without any proper regulator in place. Sonthi & Chamlong joined later, with their supporters. In other words they were a protest group trying to prevent Thailand moving towards a Fascist dictatorship under Thaksin.

They are now a nationalist group who have no fascist leader, unlike the aforementioned Thaksin. I don't support many of their aims except their rightful concerns about the current politically & morally corrupt leadership & where it is leading Thailand.

You seem comically unaware that old style Trade Unions in Thailand are notoriously reactionary.EGAT's unions, often teamed with senior management !!, through restrictive practices, to put back Thailand's energy programme for decades.

I note that you seem to be an uncritical acolyte of PAD yet like many of your sort don't support many of their aims when it is impolitic or embarrasing to do so..Sorry you can't have it both ways or at least spell out what you don't like about them.The racism, the contempt for democracy, the Chinese triumphalism, the feudaliphilia, the exaltation of the army? Take your pick - there's a lot to choose from.

The PAD leadership - a truly ghastly group of old geezers - does have fascist characteristics, the rank and file less so.Not much influence now but could easily revive if the unelected elites decide to wind them up again.Useful idiots in Lenin's famous phrase.

[rixalex]

The PAD leadership - a truly ghastly group of old geezers - does have fascist characteristics, the rank and file less so.

Rank and file less so? Have you ever met any rank and file yellows that you would truly describe of as being fascists? I have yet to, just as i have yet to meet any rank and file reds who i would truly describe of as being communists. Just another bit of the usual extreme hyperbole. Either that or some people really don't understand the terms they are banding about.

[jayboy]

The PAD leadership - a truly ghastly group of old geezers - does have fascist characteristics, the rank and file less so.

Rank and file less so? Have you ever met any rank and file yellows that you would truly describe of as being fascists? I have yet to, just as i have yet to meet any rank and file reds who i would truly describe of as being communists. Just another bit of the usual extreme hyperbole. Either that or some people really don't understand the terms they are banding about.

It's fairly standard English for "not really", isn't it.As it happens however I have met yellowshirt supporters who are as close to being fascists as makes no difference.But I agree most aren't.

[khunken]

I'm not surprised rixalex doesn't compare the 'yellow horde and their fascist leadership' with the 'twelve apostles'. If he did he would be really out of touch. You even just mentioning this seem to be out of it somewhat.

It's called sarcasm.He did compare the yellow mob with the occupiers at St Paul's which is lunacy beyond any sarcastic take down I have to agree.Next we'll be hearing that stale old mantra (so popular with dimmer kind of expat reactionary) about the AOT being responsible for the airport close down for elf and safety reasons

Not sure what all the shock horror indignation is all about in response to my reference to PAD fascism.The PAD and yellow shirt leadership showed many of the fascist characteristcs leadership - as does for example Dr Tui currently.To be fair I do not and in fact never have suggested this is the case with the PAD rank and file.Certainly there was a violent thuggish element but most in the early stages were decent if sometimes misguided citizens.

Rubbish. You have no idea when & how the yellow shirts were formed. They started as a protest movement against the corrupt privatisation of PTT around 2003 & included trade union members of SRT & Thai Air. They then grew when Thaksin tried to privatise EGAT without any proper regulator in place. Sonthi & Chamlong joined later, with their supporters. In other words they were a protest group trying to prevent Thailand moving towards a Fascist dictatorship under Thaksin.

They are now a nationalist group who have no fascist leader, unlike the aforementioned Thaksin. I don't support many of their aims except their rightful concerns about the current politically & morally corrupt leadership & where it is leading Thailand.

You seem comically unaware that old style Trade Unions in Thailand are notoriously reactionary.EGAT's unions, often teamed with senior management !!, through restrictive practices, to put back Thailand's energy programme for decades.

I note that you seem to be an uncritical acolyte of PAD yet like many of your sort don't support many of their aims when it is impolitic or embarrasing to do so..Sorry you can't have it both ways or at least spell out what you don't like about them.The racism, the contempt for democracy, the Chinese triumphalism, the feudaliphilia, the exaltation of the army? Take your pick - there's a lot to choose from.

The PAD leadership - a truly ghastly group of old geezers - does have fascist characteristics, the rank and file less so.Not much influence now but could easily revive if the unelected elites decide to wind them up again.Useful idiots in Lenin's famous phrase.

Why don't you read what I said before posting. I said I don't like their aims (all - for the myopic) except their opposition to the current corrupt lot in power. 'uncritical'? try reading the previous sentence. The wild terms you toss out so easily (contempt for democracy, Chinese triumphalism, feudalism) all can be applied to the Thaksinists who have their fascist dictator all lined up to take the country further downhill politically.

For such 'useful idiots' they have'nt done too bad in preventing the DL's return via amnesty so far. I do feel sorry for those who have swallowed the Thaksin/redshirt propaganda without question.

[jayboy]

And jayboy, i'm still interested in your response to this, if you care to give it:

So you are talking about the drugs war (I think!).To give you a straight answer I do believe that Abhisit's alleged involvement in murder of protestors would be judged by an impartial observer to be more serious than those of Thaksin in the ill considered and brutal drugs war which, given the misery the drugs trade causes, had the support of most Thais - from the pinnacle to the bottom.That is why he has never been charged - the objective was a sound one.

If we are talking objectives, i don't think there was anything unsound about Abhisit's objective in trying to clear Bangkok's streets of further rioting. Surely the problem wasn't with his objective, it was with how he is alleged to have gone about that task. Thaksin's alleged crime is surely the same. Nobody questions the soundness of the objective of clearing up the drugs problem, people question the methods that were employed, in particular, the alleged shoot to kill policy.

As for the old "it had the support of most Thais" chestnut (that is brought out each and every time the war on drugs is discussed here), it's a complete irrelevance. As if policy popularity with the public somehow removes culpability from those in charge when the policy turns out a tragic disaster. When the government unveils a plan to build a new bridge across the Gulf of Thailand, and it is warmly received by all, do we shift the blame away from the people who built it, when the bridge collapses and kills hundreds, because after all, it is what the people wanted?

Indignation about the war on drugs was generated very late in the day primarily as a means to attack Thaksin.There were some honourable people who criticised the policy at the time but they were rather few in number.It was an awful business but it's in a completely different category from the Bangkok 20120 deaths.I agree that because a policy is popular is not the same as a policy being morally correct.I tend to avoid discussion on this forum because of the infantile tendency of some -not you - to tot up deaths incurred by Abhisit and Thaksin, and conclude the latter was the wickedest because of the drugs war.The two are totally different and non comparable.

[jayboy]

Why don't you read what I said before posting. I said I don't like their aims (all - for the myopic) except their opposition to the current corrupt lot in power. 'uncritical'? try reading the previous sentence. The wild terms you toss out so easily (contempt for democracy, Chinese triumphalism, feudalism) all can be applied to the Thaksinists who have their fascist dictator all lined up to take the country further downhill politically.

For such 'useful idiots' they have'nt done too bad in preventing the DL's return via amnesty so far. I do feel sorry for those who have swallowed the Thaksin/redshirt propaganda without question.

I understood your post only too well.The supporters of the Nazis said much the same thing ..."don't much like them but at least they deal firmly with the communists, Jews, trade unionists..."Sorry can't accept that as a morally sustainable position.

And to suggest that the unattractive aspects of the PAD I recommended you review are in fact applicable to those they hate, is just silly and lame.

[khunken]

Why don't you read what I said before posting. I said I don't like their aims (all - for the myopic) except their opposition to the current corrupt lot in power. 'uncritical'? try reading the previous sentence. The wild terms you toss out so easily (contempt for democracy, Chinese triumphalism, feudalism) all can be applied to the Thaksinists who have their fascist dictator all lined up to take the country further downhill politically.

For such 'useful idiots' they have'nt done too bad in preventing the DL's return via amnesty so far. I do feel sorry for those who have swallowed the Thaksin/redshirt propaganda without question.

I understood your post only too well.The supporters of the Nazis said much the same thing ..."don't much like them but at least they deal firmly with the communists, Jews, trade unionists..."Sorry can't accept that as a morally sustainable position.

And to suggest that the unattractive aspects of the PAD I recommended you review are in fact applicable to those they hate, is just silly and lame.

Now that you drag up the Nazis, it is interesting looking at the parallel between what they did & where the PTP party is going. Both elected, both intent on discarding any semblence of democratic checks & balances, black shirts, red shirts - same modus aperandi, & a Fuhrer (waiting in the wings here).

I don't care what is morally sustainable to you, nor what you consider lame or silly. I've yet to see you demonstrate anything moral so if you don't like my comparisons - good.

[yoshiwara]

And if you seriously believe the protest at St Paul's can be compared to the fascist occupation of Bangkok's airport, you have clearly lost it.

Why have i lost it? Both involved what was on the whole the rather peaceful if not disruptive business of camping out at a place and by doing so, causing it to close because of safety concerns.

As for the "fascist occupation" bit, i refer you back to my earlier comment about exaggerations not serving but rather undermining arguments being made.

I'm surprised you don't compare the yellow horde and their fascist leadership with the twelve apostles.You have truly lost touch with reality.

Sent from my GT-I9300 using Thaivisa Connect App

You've gone from daft exaggeration to try and underline a point, to silly misrepresentation of someone else's view to try and ridicule it. For someone who regularly bemoans the poor level of debate here, you aren't doing much yourself to raise it.

Ah, 'the yellow horde and their fascist leadership.' The trouble with this contributor is that though he thinks his nit-picking paints him as Mr Reasonable, as a straight down the line Thaksin apologist, he has to keep the bile buttoned up or at least tries to, until every so often the mask comes off and the snarl is there for all to see. One can also see in response to the resulting comments that we migrated from it was only sarcasm (cover up) to the slow retreat, well they are a little bit fascist, well some of them are fascist, thugs and all and so on. A retreat from a viewpoint which is where he stands. This is from someone who to this day has refused to acknowledge the existence of Arisman's Burn Bangkok video and has defended to the death the 'peaceful reds' and 'unarmed reds' agenda. Korkaew's line of reasoning, Jatuporn et al. They are no strangers, they are a part of Thaksin's team and how he presents his arguments are peas in a pod. Maybe he picked up the phrase 'the yellow horde and their fascist leadership.' from red TV. Certainly sounds like it.

Edited October 24, 2012 by yoshiwara

[maidu]

So if all these highly trained snipers were deployed, why didn't they use them to pick off the hate-mongers inciting violence from the stage?

Whether or not the habitual liar's words are true, it's not a bad idea to deploy snipers in such a scenario. A large part of Bangkok has been commandeered. Barricades of pointed bamboo mixed with petrol-soaked tires are growing week by week. People are on stage, shouting in microphones to burn Bangkok down. Armed men are seen mingling with the Red Shirt crowd. By all means, employ snipers.

I recommended, during the early days of the occupation, that a sniper take out the generators which were powering the P.A. system. One or two well placed bullets would have knocked them out, pow. It would have been heartening to have heard of some of the Red Shirt arsonists being taken out by snipers, but that didn't happen.