Phuket Hospitals Defend Fractured Pricing

[somchaismith]

Can't see any argument--Medical billing fraud is the inclusion of false statements on a bill submitted to a patient or insurance provider for payment.

Edited October 21, 2012 by somchaismith

[stevenl]

Are you guys really so bored that, even though you don't give a dam_n about Phuket, are still trawling the forums looking to give some negative comments about the place?

[Travelman868]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If there was nothing wrong why did you go to the hospital ????

I have used several Thai hospitals and have had good treatment at fair prices. Yes, I paid more than the locals but it has never been expensive. I do believe that the main tourists cities can be very expensive so you now know the answer.

NZ man. In the UK we pay for our NHS treatment every month.

[aguy30]

It sounds like another private hospital with the "pigs feeding at the trough mentaility". Seems that almost every Thai wants to have the "farang golden goose" for dinner.

It would be proper for the government to control what can be charged to a farang living in Thailand by limiting it to whatever the hospital would normally receive from a Thai insurance company like BUPA.

[LivinginKata]

Sorry, I just have never experienced this double pricing. I see my specialist doctor in the Phuket International every 2 months and I pay a total fee of 400 baht, if I need some blood tests its increases to about 800 baht. For me that is incredibly cheap. Even the eye specialist I consult with at the Bangkok Phuket costs at most 1,000 baht, yes I know that's far too much but we are talking about that 5 star resort hospital ...

[radiochaser]

In the article PPAO Vice President Chawalit Na Nakorn, is alleged to have said:

“Every hospital, even those that are government-owned and operated by the Ministry of Public Health, have different medical treatment rates between Thai and foreign patients. Our rates for foreign patients are partly based on the range of prices as set by the Ministry of Public Health.

However, our hospital management committee, after considering the issue, decided to adjust the prices for foreigners,” he said."

I have had medical and dental treatment in a Bangkok hospital and from a Bangkok private dental office and was charged the same prices as a Thai national, so I was not aware of the dual pricing scheme Pres. Nakorn is referencing..

I had to have emergency medical treatment outside of Bangkok and was only charged about Baht 150. I was in the triage area for an hour, given an injection of medicine, and provided pills to take for the next three days or so before being discharged.

Every time I received medical and dental treatment was when I was there as a tourist.

What I had to pay, out of pocket, here in the United States for a root canal and crown for one tooth far exceeded all the charges I had to pay for all my medical and dental care in Thailand. The dental plan part of my health insurance did not cover root canals and crowns either in the United States or outside the United States! (I have had a separate dental plan for the last four years that does cover root canals and crowns and the total monthly payments I have made is still less than the cost of that one root canal and crown!)

My health plan reimburses me at 40% of the cost, for any medical treatment in Thailand as they consider the doctors and hospitals to be outside of their approved network. I was a federal government employee and kept my health insurance coverage when I retired two years ago. As it is a health plan for employees that may work inside or outside of the United States, it does reimburse for medical costs incurred outside of the United States.

As an aside, my health care plan allows me to walk into any doctors office any where on the Earth and ask for treatment of any medical problem. Even in the doctors office that has signs posted on the wall that read, "You must have a referral from you physician before being seen at this office!"

[citizen33]

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

Curious. You should have been covered for NHS care under the existing reciprocal agreement.

http://www.health.govt.nz/new-zealand-health-system/eligibility-publicly-funded-health-services/reciprocal-health-agreements

Admiittedly this would not cover a New Zealander if s/he had travelled to the UK for ongoing treatment for a pre-existing condition, but necessary treatment to prevent such a condition worsening during a temporary visit would be given free.

Even somebody from a country with no reciprocal agreement - like Thailand - gets a restricted range of emergency and other services - a lot more than the expat in Thailand receives at no charge.

[radiochaser]

Oh, and complaining of inflated prices and a little bit off topic, but to illustrate that Thailand may not be the only place that charges excessive prices.

I thought that I was experiencing a heart attack one morning when getting ready for work. I went to the emergency room of my local hospital and was in the hospital for more than 24 hours. I was given a baby aspirin (a 25 or 50 mg tablet) within five or ten minutes of arriving in the emergency room . The hospital billed me $50.00 US for that one pill!

Edited October 21, 2012 by radiochaser

[Anon999]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don't expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

Not always true, I am a UK citizen, I would be charged the same as you if I required medical help in the Uk. If I was an illegal

Immigrant in the Uk,then yes it would be free for me.

You appear to be talking about NHS Hospitals whereas the one in Phuket is a private hospital therefore this is not comparing like with like.

[Anon999]

Jeez..stand by for self righteous venom.

I detest and abhor Farang Price as much as everyone else.

But I'd have thought the guy from Phuket Hospital made out a perfectly reasonable case for charging farang extra.

The hospital gets nothing from the Thai Governmet or Health Funds et al....if farang are treated.

It is NOT a charity.

Isn't it obvious that they need to recoup costs and make a profit?.

I wonder, how people call this 'scams' in their home countries, where doctors and hospitals doing exactly the same:

On price for people with social health Insurance = normal care

Another price for people in welfare = only real needed care

And a totally different price for private insured people = every care, you can/wanna afford!

As long your insurance isn't having a agreement with the hospital, you are paying out of your pocket.

Private!

Always nice, to see the insurance guys rolling their eyes, in case someone claims the refund for hospital bills on motorcycle accidents.

Would be a lot cheaper, if the hospital would get the insurance details in the beginning and had to bill the insurance direct.

I'm not a fan of double pricing, but in hospitals you mostly get more for more money.

You pay a lot more for the room, but you are alone in it, with English TV, and a nurse shows up quickly, on your ring.

Sure you may have to check with their price list. But complaining after a 'walk in' is about the same, like ordering a beer in a nightclub, and wondering about the 500 baht to pay for it, later!

It isn't like in national parks, temples in Bangkok, or in the restaurant or the Expo-Areas

Also the "we are so good, nice and cheap" article about this 'new' hospital, some weeks ago, was pointing (to me), that they need money.

The 30 baht customer aren't paying for the bills!

Edit: Also now it's easier, to chose international or Bangkok Hospital. No need to worry, that you pay too much, there!

If you choose a private hospital then it's highly likely to be more expensive than a government hospital. I've used Rutnin Eye hospital and Bangkok Hospital in Bangkok and have no complaints about the fees charged by either.

[nontabury]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don't expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

Not always true, I am a UK citizen, I would be charged the same as you if I required medical help in the Uk. If I was an illegal

Immigrant in the Uk,then yes it would be free for me.

You appear to be talking about NHS Hospitals whereas the one in Phuket is a private hospital therefore this is not comparing like with like.

If you go into a private hospital in the UK,example a BUPA hospital, EVERYBODY is charged the same, British,foreigners,rich,poor,black,white,or whatever.

[Keesters]

The fact that they see the need to defend is an admission that something is wrong. If they just charged everybody the same then this article would never have appeared.

Same goes for when places show prices using Thai script numerals for Thais and regular 0-9 numerals for Farang. They are covering up, trying to hide the fact that they double price. If they felt so justified in their 2 tier pricing then they wouldn't need to hide it and would only use one set of numerals, the kind you see in every supermarket, 7-11 and department store etc. in Thailand. Thai numerals are only used on some Thai government official documents and places where they practice double pricing.

[drdoom6996]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

I just had complete shoulder re-construction surgery at one of the Bangkok group hospitals. The cost was just over 21,000 USD. In America surgery for just the rotator cuff for a friend was just over 65,000 USD. I found the surgeon to be excellent. The hospital facilities to be excellent. And the after surgery to be way above that gotten in the so called "western world".

That's why all international hospitalisation and health insurances doe not cover the USA and Hong Kong. These two are the worst in the world.

I am not complaining. I have insureance and am/was completely covered. I was given very good treatment for a fair price, by world standards. I do not to expect to be treated as a Thai when I am an expat in Thailand. I do not understand those who do. Expats in their own countries are not treated as nationals their, in the expats home. Why should expates be treated as the Thai nationals here in Thailand that they are not?

I have and will continue to pay for what I get here in Thailand as an expat fo all things. I have never expected anything more or less. I have never expected to be treated as a Thai as I am not a Thai.

Edited October 22, 2012 by drdoom6996

[drdoom6996]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If there was nothing wrong why did you go to the hospital ????

I have used several Thai hospitals and have had good treatment at fair prices. Yes, I paid more than the locals but it has never been expensive. I do believe that the main tourists cities can be very expensive so you now know the answer.

NZ man. In the UK we pay for our NHS treatment every month.

+1

[nontabury]

Wanna do something about it ,all your foreigners and expats alike,......sent emails and updates to all ur friends and families overseas to boycott Phuket and also Thailand, lobby to your governmenst and opposition groups back home to stop aiding Thailand in any trade and also funding policies and make poeple back home to terat thais there, be it workers, tourists or prostitutes, the same way that they treat foreigners in thailand if not worst.

Make sure that the foreign press pick up stories about how Thailand should be labelled as a medical hub and also discourage people from coming here for treatments, promote countries like Singapore, Malaysia or Australia as alternative medical hubs.

And lastly when you see the so called ar..... holes...who defenede these double pricing policies...spit on them in the public along with their imeediate families.

I just had complete shoulder re-construction surgery at one of the Bangkok group hospitals. The cost was just over 21,000 USD. In America surgery for just the rotator cuff for a friend was just over 65,000 USD. I found the surgeon to be excellent. The hospital facilities to be excellent. And the after surgery to be way above that gotten in the so called "western world".

That's why all international hospitalisation and health insurances doe not cover the USA and Hong Kong. These two are the worst in the world.

I am not complaining. I have insureance and am/was completely covered. I was given very good treatment for a fair price, by world standards. I do not to expect to be treated as a Thai when I am an expat in Thailand. I do not understand those who do. Expats in their own countries are not treated as nationals their, in the expats home. Why should expates be treated as the Thai nationals here in Thailand that they are not?

I have and will continue to pay for what I get here in Thailand as an expat fo all things. I have never expected anything more or less. I have never expected to be treated as a Thai as I am not a Thai.

Please re-read my post 41, You say ex-pats in our own countries pay more then the nationals,

This is certainly wrong regarding the UK.There ex-pats are charged the same as the British in the uk

private hospitals,and the Phuket hospital in question is a private hospitalt.It is this double pricing that people are complaining about. I may be wrong but I think if a British private hospital was found to have a policy of double pricing as practiced here in Thailand, they would be open to prosecution by the British government, unlike the situation here in Thailand where the Thai government actively encourages this practice.

[stevenl]

The main double pricing private hospitals here have is between insurance and no insurance.

[andre47]

One of my friends here lived already 25 years here in Pattaya when he got cancer. After some radiotherapy he got a few chemotherapyies in the Bankok Pattaya Hospital. He had a German health insurance and he thought that they will pay everything. When he got the first invoices for his chemotherapyies he sent them to his insurance in Germany. They answered him that the treatment would cost in Germany only half of the Thai price and they paid him back only the German price. Than my friend changed the hospital and got the same treatment in a goverment hospital in Chonburi. They charged him only 60 percent of the Bangkok Pattaya hospital. The cost for the treatment is mainly caused by an imported medication. Why the Bangkok Pattaya hospital must charge 100% profit on selling a medication. In my opinion its just a ripp off. I had a similar experience with them, but I asked for their price before they started the treatment and I got a 40% reduction after some discussuions. Stay away from them, if you can. If I know that I need a expensive treatment I would try to make it during my next trip to Germany.

Edited October 22, 2012 by andre47

[oops]

What this idiot fails to realize, that if it wasn't for the the westerners visiting here or retiring here he most likely wouldn't have

a hospital to manage or the medical supplies or equipment

brought in by westerners to help the locals. I know my government has helped Thailand over the years since the Vietnam War.

Yet they still don't get enough....not to mention my government allows Thailand government to open an run resturaunts in America

using Thai staff, no local Americans...I bet the Thai's don't pay 5000 baht a month for a work permit. So basically they do this same thing

most likely in your country and your government like mine allows because they think Thaiiland is broke.....Far from it.. Most of the Thai's

have millions of baht coming in from some scheme that involves a company outside of Thailand and they pay either little or nothing to the

infulstructure of Thailand. Bottome line is nothing will change this until we do what one of the top posters said...protest our governments for

using Thailand.

[oops]

Why do you lend credence to them for charging us double.

They have a policy in Pattaya, :" I believe". I tested it, then I disputed the way both Bangkok Pattaya, and Pattaya International.

They charged me almost 2000 baht with out my medical card for a doctor visit and some medication in most cases it always has to do with

food poisining. Then I stated using my medical card and for the same issue, they charged me almost 2000baht on top my medical card and it pays for up to 2000 baht a vist.

I went round and round with them at Pattaya International. At Bangkok Pattaya, the bill before was always at 2000 and above. When I started using my card it stayed around 11oobaht to15oobaht.

I tried Queen Sirikit hospital in Sattahip after awhile because I got tired of paying the 2000baht and there with my card with medication is was always free. However, I went to a skin specialist there " Yes I have heard the stories about Queen Sirikit " , anyway I went to see the skin doctor about the bumps at my booth my ankels. She looked at my ankels from her thrown and said ( They are freckles, old people have them ). I asked where she went to school...she replied something I don't remember. I said because those aren't freckles they are bumps, I said how can you see from where your at. So she bent down and look closer and with the very dim light and my feet in the shadows she determind they were pimples...? I said PIMPLES?. Those aren't pimples..they are just bumps.. In most cases a doctor would of told you to get up on the bed then use his light and magnifying glass to see what your talking about...I think she just wanted to get rid of me because her attitude like most of them out there wonder why you are even there at their hospital. They can be very rude there, not all but most.

[Expat Rob]

A reader writes:

I went yesterday to the Phuket Provincial Hospital for a doctors visit that was only five minutes as there was nothing wrong with me.

After that I sat waiting in a special section for 30 minutes while staff made out a bill for 1,100 baht for that five minutes with the doctor. A physician valuation/management fee of 500 baht; a hospital fee costing 200 baht and an administrative fee of a further 400 baht. That is more than I pay at Bangkok Hospital Phuket or at the Phuket International Hospital.

I asked them why it was so expensive, to which I was told they had different prices for foreigners. I left with a bad feeling as I don’t expect to be ripped off by a decent hospital.

If they want to charge fees like that they should at least make us aware of it beforehand.

– Gazette reader

Thanks for that heads up....I was going to give them a try

Re the pricing for locals againts expats you will find most European countries have a similar policy...being a NZr seeking medical help in the UK is much more expensive for me than a UK citizen

If there was nothing wrong why did you go to the hospital ????

I have used several Thai hospitals and have had good treatment at fair prices. Yes, I paid more than the locals but it has never been expensive. I do believe that the main tourists cities can be very expensive so you now know the answer.

NZ man. In the UK we pay for our NHS treatment every month

I've been going to Paolo Hospital and its dental clinic for nearly ten years now. I've noticed for the past three years that the prices for simple dental procedures and cleaning have been going up with each and every visit. I learned today from both the dentist and their customer service representative that they have instituted a dual-pricing system, one for Thais and a higher one for foreigners. I work and pay taxes in Thailand, many more taxes than most upper-middle class Thais and I will never get any benefits from the Thai government, all that I accept. What I will not accept is paying more for medical and dental procedures just because of the color of my skin. This is discrimination pure and simple. I was also told that the owners have put in the same dual-pricing system at Phayathai Hospital. I was not aware of these practices, now that I am I will go to a hospital that will treat me as a patient and not as someone to fleece.