Stem Cell Therapy - Prolotherapy - Prp

[miketanman]

Hi,

Does anyone know of any doctors practicing Stem Cell Therapy, Prolotherapy or PRP techniques in Thailand?

I found two links to the same company:

http://www.absoluteh...rapy-tid67.aspx

http://www.absoluteh...-prp-tid60.aspx

I'm looking for a an "alternative" treatment for a complete horizontal medial Meniscus tear.

I live in Chiang Mai, but am willing to travel anywhere in Thailand.

I found out that Mc Cormick hospital in Chiang Mai was doing some stem cell trials in 2010, but I'm not sure if they're still doing them. I'll try to contact them this week to find out.

Please share any sources or experiences with these treatments in Thailand.

Thank you very much!

Mike

[jrtmedic]

Some hospitals in Thailand were offering "Stem Cell" treatments until the Thai Medical Council ended the practice in I believe 2010.

The treatments offered were at best experimental, not based on any good science and were probably unethical.

Research into the potential benefit of stem cell therapy is on going in many Western countries. As reported in the Nation Newspaper today the Thai Medical Council has just authorised a number of academic studies involving diabetes, arthritis, retina irregularities and the spinal chord. The newspaper also reports that the Police General Hospital is conducting research into the possible use of stem as treatment for arthritis

Below is a quote from the Nation

"Separately, the council has been asked to certify two other studies related to heart disease as standard treatment, but it has put them on hold due to opposition from Thailand's Royal College of Physicians and Royal College of Surgeons.

"These two medical colleges found that patients with heart disease did not feel any better after getting stem-cell injections," Somsak said.

Moreover, stem-cell treatment for heart disease had yet to be accepted by the international medical community as standard treatment.

"We found that many patients spent more than a million baht for this treatment and their condition did not improve," he said."

As far as I am aware stem cell therapy is only proven to be of assistance in some Haematological diseases and is, in these cases, used by way of a bone marrow transplant.

In your own case I would be tempted to follow advise of an Orthopaedic Specialist.

I doubt that you will find a validated, clinically proven and widely accepted "alternative" therapy for your damaged meniscus. However, if your search proves me wrong I would be very pleased if you would be kind enough to email me the details

Best wishes

Edited October 23, 2012 by jrtmedic

[miketanman]

Thanks jrtmedic,

With the Arthroscopic repair, the Ortho wants to repair the complete horizontal tear, but also wants to cut 1/3 to 1/2 the damaged part out. I am pretty mobile right now (and being careful) and can't imagine being on crutches 4-6 weeks + back to sports in 3-6 months. It seems ultra invasive to consider. Plus they say its only 85% success in red zone tears (http://www.webmd.com...meniscus-repair) and I'm over 40 with a white zone tear, which is why my confidence in Arthroscopic is not so high. I asked my Ortho to email me the percentages for my case if I were to do it.

So, I'm still considering at least 2 types of alternative treatment as my best shot at it, and think that I may have to go back to USA for either of these (not much luck in SE Asia with experienced practitioners):

1) http://www.regenexx.com - they use bone marrow stem cells (Mesenchymal) and a Fluoroscopic and musculoskeletal ultrasound needle guidance to insure accurate transplant targeting to the damaged site (as Meniscus is a small target).

2) Prolotherapy - Dr. Hauser http://tinyurl.com/8taxsnj

They can also use bone marrow as an option or PRP (platelet rich plasma) to help stimulate repair.

I know they don't have real clinical trials, but they both seem to have a lot of success stories out there and I have a couple friends who had great results with prolotherapy or stem cell treatmetns after years of having meniscus/knee issues. I'm not sure about healing a complete repair, but the chance of improvement is positive with side affects in only rare cases. And you can always do another set of treatments with injections, but you can never undo what is cut out.

Thanks for any further comment on the topic.

Mike

[oxymoron]

Recently had a show on Ozzie Current Affair about a Sydney / Melbourne hospital harvesting the fat from your belly, processing it to get stem cells then injecting it. Had testimonials from two people, one hip the other knee problems from osteo-arthritus who raved about its benefits.

Cost around $9000AUD

Google Channel 7/9 my memory is fading.

We will be checking it out to see if will save the TW full knee replacements

[Sheryl]

I would stronglky urge against these. The lack of clinical studies is nto a minor detail. It means that the effectiveness has not been established and, worse, potential side effects not identified. there have been d=some horrific cases of people developing multiople tumors as a result of unapproved stem cell treatm,ent.

I would definitely not take the reports of the places doing the therapy as accurate or reliable. And 2 friends having a good experience doesn't mean you will...or for that matter that they will nto subsequently develop a serious malnignancy as a result.

[miketanman]

I also came to the decision about the middle of last week that it is too risky to jump into a stem cell treatment for my situation.

I made the decision to go with Dr. Sintip at the BioSky Medical Clinic in McCormick Hospital, Chiang Mai. He is a very meticulous Thai M.D. and experienced with knee rehabilitation at Maharaj hospital. After looking at the MRI and diagnosing my knee, he believes I don't need to have the surgery. He was actually more concerned about some Patellofemoral cartilage degeneration vs. the meniscus tear, which was where there was more pain before (I should have listened) and especially after the injury.

We're doing rehab in the following way:

- First he aspirated the knee near the medial patella to get the old dark yellow synovial fluid out and about 5cc of old dark blood. That was good to do as the blood was probably one month old since the injury and it showed that no new bleeding was occurring.

- Next he did the first injection of Prolozone (Ozone + B Vitamins) for general healing of the joint in the same location (actually leaving the needle in and just changing syringes). I've also found a couple friends and one doctor who does this therapy, and it looks very safe and non-invasive. Here's a sample link of testimonials: http://www.everydayh...zone-joint.html

- This week I will begin light Physical Therapy at Rajavej hospital on Monday along with a daily series of 3 Peptide shots in the afternoon. They promote release of my own Mesenchymal stem cells for joint/cartilage healing, according to Dr. Sintip.

- And then more Prolozone shots mixed in with increasing PT as much as possible.

The first treatment alone has helped my knee not to swell up, and I was pretty much walking around all day. I only notice it going up and down stairs, but it will improve... I'm confident now.</p>

[Swiss1960]

1) http://www.regenexx.com - they use bone marrow stem cells (Mesenchymal) and a Fluoroscopic and musculoskeletal ultrasound needle guidance to insure accurate transplant targeting to the damaged site (as Meniscus is a small target).

2) Prolotherapy - Dr. Hauser http://tinyurl.com/8taxsnj

They can also use bone marrow as an option or PRP (platelet rich plasma) to help stimulate repair.

Just start to think realistic and not out of some desperate hope to get your meniscus problem solved by some "alien" treatment... if stem cell therapy would be really proven, then all the major players in the health industry would be offering it... so ask yourself, why does not a single major hospital offer that kind of treatments???

so far, you just find some obscure sites about that kind of treatments... so you probably can do more damage to yourself by waiting with the operation than good by trying any of those (expensive) alternative "treatments"

[FBN]

A meniscal tear will not be susceptable to either regenerative therapy or stem cell therapy by virtue of its anatomy and physiology. It is a fibrous tissue that absorbs nutrients from the joint space itself, similar to cartilage but while cartilage is a metabolically active substance, the meniscus is not. It won't heal. The torn bit will eventually tear more and will usually result in a "bucket handle" tear. To remove the "dead" bit arthroscopically is minimally invasive. Also offers the opportunity to rinse the joint of any residual debris that resulted either from the injury or just overuse. Overall results are excellent and, if you want to get to sports quickly, really the only option.

[mogandave]

Why not visit the Thailand Medical Expo at the Bitec this week? Google it, should be someone there.

[miketanman]

Thanks for all the responses and the sanity check on Stem Cells.

I agree that Stem Cells are unproven technology and expensive now after 2-weeks of research, contacting a few vendors and hearing your responses.

I'm not an agro sports guy anymore, so things like cycling & stairs are fine on the knee already. Hopefully PT, massage, stretching and the alternative injections I'm working with here should be good enough. There have been no side-effects from the shots and they kicked me out of PT to do it myself already.

There is always the possibility to do the arthroscopic cut and repair down the road if the conservative approach doesn't work out. I just can't justify the invasiveness of it right now knowing that probably 30-40% of the people have meniscus tears and don't even know it.

Anyway, its a good topic though and I'm sure there will be others considering similar options in the future, especially when the technology has more time to mature and come down in price.

[petedk]

I have just been diagnosed as having osteoarthritis so I was quite interested in this thread. My problem started about 3 weeks ago and came quite suddenly. I couldn't squat, go up or go down stairs.

I have also just browsed a few websites about Prolozone Therapy and they seem to give positive remarks about this kind of treatment.

Does anyone know of a place in Bangkok that performs this treatment and how much it costs?

[rbmcn]

One of my friends is considering stem-cell treatment for metasticized prostate cancer at the "Better Being Hospital" on Sukhumvit soi 39. I have googled and trolled thro TV without any solid comments/ reviews found. Has anyone had dealings with this hospital and if so, can you comment on the service/ success experienced? Grateful for feedback.

[Sheryl]

The Thai Medical Council banned this some years back for very good reason (the science is not yet developed to a point where treatments are safe or effective).

So if this place is offering stem cell "treatments" they are doing so outside the framework of accepted medical practice and contrary to Medical Council guidelines. I think that in itself tells you more than enough.

If your friend has already had standard chemotherapy to no effect then I would suggest he look into the many clinical trials that are underway on newer drugs.

[rbmcn]

Thanks Sheryl- I will pass that along. I thought that this was the case.

[GlobalHealth]

Hi all,

After working with and seeing cellular therapy performed in Thailand i can certainly say that this new technique, in regenerating the body, works. I would like to say that not everyone will see amazing results, its case by case. However what i have seen is truly fantastic. The western style of medicine is extremely scared of this new medicine as it could literally collapse the pharmaceutical industry. I'm no politician nor Doctor and my eyes do not lie to me.

I would like to comment on a few details that i have read in this thread:

- using Autologously derived mesenchymal Stem Cells are 100% safe for the body. The body can not reject these cells and the genetic code for these cells will mean that they can only perform a certain amount of cellular differentiation. e.g bone, cartilage, tissue.

There has not been a single amount of clinical data that says that cancer or tumors will form MSC.

- as in the US and Thailand , Stem Cells might not be approved by the FDA however it is your human right to decide on what style of medicine you want. It is not illegal to have Stem Cell therapy. Again the pharmaceutical industry has its greasy paws wrapped around the right people so as to keep it this way.

- for orthopedic conditions Stem Cell therapy is immensely effective and the doctors that can perform this therapy have decades of experience in this field. I would gladly share any information and data to support this.

- Cancer patients are not recommended for Stem Cell therapy however alternative treatments (that don't involve destroying your immune system and everything great about the human body) are definitely out there. Again i would gladly share any information and data to support this.

I thank you for reading my 2 pence on the matter.

[stix9]

I just had PRP administered into right knee joint exhibiting slightly torn meniscus of 6 weeks duration.

I am very pleased to experience a cessation of pain and inflammation symptoms within 6 days of the treatment.

[CobraSnakeNecktie]

Peyton Manning the american football star went from inactive and facing retirement to having one of his best seasons and nearly winning the MVP award after getting PRP.

It's now available in Los Angeles and New York and lots of athletes are having great results on joint injuries.

I doubt Thailand will have it for some time but its no joke and costs about $5k per injury site in the US.

Edited November 13, 2014 by CobraSnakeNecktie