Pinpointing Weaknesses In Our Teaching System: Interview

[webfact]

EXCLUSIVE INTERVIEW

Pinpointing weaknesses in our teaching system

Chularat Saengpassa,

Wannapa Khaopa

The Nation October 29, 2012 1:00 am

Pornpun Waitayangkoon

IPST head tells what key assessments have revealed

BANGKOK: -- Achievements by Thai students in national and international tests have steadily declined - a situation all stakeholders need to solve urgently, Pornpun Waitayangkoon, director of the Institute for the Promotion of Teaching Science and Technology (IPST) told The Nation in a recent exclusive interview.

Why are Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study (TIMSS), the Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA), and the Ordinary National Educational Test (O-Net) so important to Thailand?

They've helped us discover weak points in our education. PISA assesses children's life skills and knowledge application while TIMSS assesses their academic achievements in maths and science. The analyses based on both assessments' results told us what has gone wrong in the Kingdom's education system. The results of the analyses are really helpful for education quality improvement. Learning all the flaws in the education system could lead to policies to provide correct solutions to these flaws. Thailand has to pay around Bt2 million - Bt3 million to join each round of international testing. We have to make use of all the assessments' results after analysing them.

What do they tell us?

Based on the analyses of these assessments, we've found that the problem lies in small schools and extended primary schools. (Extended primary schools extend educational provisions to lower secondary education). The extended primary school students are the weakest group in TIMSS. Schools in the Northeast had the lowest average scores in TIMSS compared to other parts of the country, whereas those in Bangkok achieved the highest average scores, followed by the North, Central, and South regions. Most Thai students were at low levels in PISA and TIMSS, which were at Level 1 or below. Also, most Thai parents, especially in the Northeast, have a low financial status so they have to work to earn a living for their families but don't have enough time to help their children improve their learning.

Why did the small schools and extended primary schools get the lowest average scores?

There are not enough teachers, books and instructional media at such schools. Many teachers in such schools have not taught in the fields they graduated from. Many of the 7,000 extended primary schools are not ready to provide lower secondary education to students due to a shortage of resources and teachers qualified to teach at that level. Knowledge among some teachers at secondary schools is weak. Teachers in Educational Development Study-Mathematics said many Thai secondary school teachers with a maths major had sufficient knowledge to teach only primary school students.

Overall, what are the problems challenging students and people in the education system?

Most Thai students have weak fundamentals in primary education but are allowed to pass this level and continue studying at more difficult levels. So, the higher education levels they study, the less they manage to absorb. Students have trouble with reading so they are unable to analyse, as they often don't understand the questions clearly.

Meanwhile, teachers cover too much content, while skipping difficult lessons they are unable to make students understand. Some content found in questions of TIMSS have not been taught in Thai curricula. Teachers don't teach and test adequately students' thinking and knowledge application, while their teaching is based on content.

What should the government do to make quality of education in different kinds and sizes of schools more equal?

We have to create clusters of schools with different achievements, including high, middle and low achievement groups. The government should give those in the low achievement cluster - which includes small and extended primary schools - the most resources, including budget, teachers, instructional media and books. As primary education is the heart of education, Thailand must recruit good and excellent teachers for this level. Primary school teachers should be the most expensive teachers because they have to provide students with a firm foundation.

What should the stakeholders do to lift education quality, resulting in improved test scores?

O-Net will have to be adjusted from a content-based test that requires only content recall and an understanding to answer the test's questions, to knowledge application that has students finding out solutions to different problems or situations. Teachers should learn more about applied test questions and questions in PISA and TIMSS. They should be trained to create that kind of test question because the questions encourage students' thinking skills. Better salaries should be paid to teachers to draw excellent people to this career. Teachers should have professional standards to guarantee their qualifications.

What has IPST done to upgrade education quality and increase test scores?

IPST has created a curriculum framework in maths, science and technology, telling what students need to learn. For PISA and TIMSS, we met more than 10,000 administrators of educational service area offices, school administrators and proficient teachers last year. We aimed to get them to know the importance of assessments and to learn about the assessments' applied test questions which should make test takers think deeper than the tests created by Thai teachers now. This will motivate them to adjust their teaching. We will train 700 educational supervisors to be trainers in schools. They will help the teachers improve their tests to encourage students' thinking skills rather than content. IPST will have to review mathematics, science and technology curricula of all 12 levels in primary and secondary education in 2013. We will keep the core concepts or big ideas of each subject and let students learn more from educational activities.

Will Thai students' achievements improve in both local and international tests?

They will be better. We are now adjusting many things to deal with the problems. We've learned what caused the decline but education policies still have to be implemented unceasingly. Now, different education ministers have different ideas of development. This affects continuity in policy implementation.

We've targeted for Thai students' average scores in PISA and TIMSS to be not lower than the international average by 2017.

-- The Nation 2012-10-29

[cup-O-coffee]

More bullshit about teaching / learning and education. These articles always make it out like the people mentioned, who are contributing factors, are waiting in the wings and tugging at the leash to get with the program.

Instead, the teachers, parents, directors government and students are all out of whack with their issues of face, apathy, stupidity, self-seeking avarice, etc. that goes with it.

By 2017 there will be no significant way to measure how Thailand rates on an international scale beyond their white lies and misrepresenting statistics.

Sorry lady, this is not a top > down problem. It is a bottom < up problem that begins with the parents (yeah right!) and the development of the child before you get your hands on them; not to mention the continuous obstruction and disruptive factors that contribute to and cram the minds of the students with pure crap. The chief factor that comes to mind is Face.

Go fish. You're on the wrong path to success (as your type usually are) and should be baking cookies instead.

[sport]

Hmmm, cup–O-coffee, an interesting and highly critical response to the article.

Would you care to give a point by point detailed outline of how you think the education system in Thailand should be restructured? It is generally accepted that it is in dire need of radical change.

I eagerly await your post

[hansnl]

Hmmm, cup–O-coffee, an interesting and highly critical response to the article.

Would you care to give a point by point detailed outline of how you think the education system in Thailand should be restructured? It is generally accepted that it is in dire need of radical change.

I eagerly await your post

What about reading his post?

He states the main reasons what is wrong.

What to do about it?

You ask fo a comprehensive solution to be deposited on your desk.

I guess making inroads in the B&F departments could be a very good start.

B&F=Bribe & Face

[cup-O-coffee]

Hmmm, cup–O-coffee, an interesting and highly critical response to the article.

Would you care to give a point by point detailed outline of how you think the education system in Thailand should be restructured? It is generally accepted that it is in dire need of radical change.

I eagerly await your post

It should not be restructured. It does not need to be restructured. Any attempt to restructure it will result in money going into the wrong places. It will result in more ad hoc bullshit to compound what you, newbie, think needs restructuring, hence propagating the cycle of perpetual bullshit about things that are not broke and should not be tampered with.

In short, what you describe as a dire need is not a need at all in the minds of people who live on pure, high-octane emotion, influenced by what they think others are thinking about them, and how they think they appear to others. It's classified in this country as Face. It derails all the implications in your post, which imply that you think that there is a dire need and a problem.

[car720]

cup-O-coffee, I see you, again, and I still like your thinking but I would like to point out the second last sentence in the second last paragraph.

"Now, different education ministers have different ideas of development. This affects continuity in policy implementation."

I am sure that those who are far more eloquent than I will be able to describe the true meaning of this little pearl.

Just a thought

[holymoly]

I want to be brief. According to my observations - mostly at the university level - the main problem in

the system is the belief that it is extremely impolite to ask the teacher questions. Asking questions indicates that the teacher failed to explain the material properly.

Please, this is a most fundamental belief that is observed from grade 1 thru to University graduation and beyond

in the job. Foreign managers in commerce and industry complain bitterly about the lack of feedback.

Teachers, who never answer questions, never discuss or debate a topic with their students operate in a vacuum.

They either read straight from the text or read off the overhead (powerpoint).

Students memorize without any uunderstanding of the material whatoever and regurgitate at the exam.

Yes, all very sad but true. the total absence of interaction about the material is so fundamentally accepted that it completely escapes the inquisitive mind (should there be one) of an observer and those that want to "improve"

the Thai educational system. They cannot see the problem since they all share the values that create the problem in the first place........

A possible remedy: send all teachers to summer school where they learn about meaningful debates, discussions,

interaction between teacher and student from foreigners trained in group work and group interaction. These foreigners must at the same time understand the value system in which teachers and students operate.

I have introduced group work and group interaction in a lighthearted, friendly way in my classes in Thailand. Students enjoyed the learning. Many told me it was the first time they were encouraged to speak English in class. Amen.

Reframing the structure in the classroom by teaching teachers and students a different value system is a tall order and will take decades. At the same time the establishment has to become convinced that this is necessary and desirable.....

[alexanderkaufman]

The problem is the teacher and the school system as a whole starting from elementary up to the university level. A new breed of teachers need to be trained in progressive methods. However, it is a vicious circle as the teachers even at a university level are rarely interested in developing creativity. Student play it safe by regurgitating what their teachers' say to get a good grade. And students are mainly concerned with grades and not their learning.

Having provided assistance to elementary schools in Southern Thailand, I noticed many teachers turned on satelilte teaching on a television, while teaching unrelated subjects.

My comments are based on my personal experience having completed a phd here and taught many levels of students in Thai universities.

[belg]

another well paid commitee to tell us what everybody knows: the thai school system is not worth the paper their degree is printed on

[Mario2008]

A teacher in thailand, especially at a small secondary school, is snowed under with additional work that has nothing to do with teaching, but with the finances and administration of the school.

The government should help schools hire more administrative personell so teacher can focus on teaching, instead of doing it as a side job. And hire teachers that are competent in the subject that they teach.

[Xangsamhua]

Just a thought....

If we could get (1) a serious Minister for Education (who can stay in the job for more than a year or so) who could (2) appoint a courageous Permanent Secretary to implement a reform agenda based on attainable goals and evidence of success from Thailand and abroad, and (3) provide firm and continuing support to those implementing this agenda, perhaps we could get a breakthrough.

The present Permanent Secretary is very capable and well qualified, but she is part of the system, and has been for a long time. Her predecessors, though highly educated, were also products of the system, neutralizing their abilities to make qualitative changes. An educator myself, I'm suggesting that someone new needs to be brought in from outside the education networks, to do a very close examination and push through a new vision and strategy. Many early retirements may be necessary, and those moving up would be forced to realize that rewards will be based on success, and failure will be accounted for.

Maybe just a pipe dream. Maybe things will just muddle along as always, and Thailand will continue to decline in comparison with its ASEAN partners, but there'll be rice in the fields and fruit on the trees for the villagers, and Louis Vuitton and Tesco-Lotus for the urbanites. Politics will be fractious and acrimonious and shambolic, but there'll be no civil wars, so life will go on pretty much as always.

[Phatcharanan]

The IPST statement is fundamentally correct although it sounds like parts of it are copied from the feedback reports from PISA. The reports are not generally made public.

As 'cup-O-coffee' has pointed out, 'Face' forms a huge barrier to progress. I disagree with his/her statement though that this is not a 'top-down' issue,it most certainly is. You are referring to cultural change and that is highly unlikely to be led from the grassroots.

Can you imagine parents commenting on the IPST quote?

"We have to create clusters of schools with different achievements, including high, middle and low achievement groups"

Parent 1. 'Which school your son go to?'

Parent 2. 'Nakhon Nowhere Primary School for Low Achieving Students'

Parent 1. 'Ohhhhhhhhhh. Mai bpen rai'

Like that conversation is ever going to happen under the present cultural norms.

Edited October 29, 2012 by Phatcharanan

[bkk_mike]

I don't have kids in the Thai education system, but surely the person said, in as kind words as possible, that the real problem is kids getting progressed when they're not ready. (i.e. the not allowed to fail issue).

And the second problem is that the teachers aren't up to the job.

Personally, I'm not in favour of holding kids back, especially in primary, but surely you need to use the test results to identify the poorest performing students and give them help to keep up with the class, be that separate classes before/after school, for whatever subject it is that's holding them back (reading, or maths). After all, it's only in really small class sizes or one-to-one teaching that you'd pick up on things like dyslexia.

As for the wealthy - they know the Thai education system lets down their kids, which is why they pushed to allow Thai kids to be allowed to go to International schools.

That's why there are so many international schools around. But that causes a separate problem that the kids being more proficient in English than they are in Thai and so if they fail to get into a University abroad (often for financial reasons - International fees are STEEP), their Thai often isn't up to a University education given in Thai. (Especially on scientific or medical subjects, they wouldn't have the vocabulary as all their science subjects at school were taught in English).

As for upgrading teachers, surely the old adage is at least partly true.

If you pay peanuts, you get monkeys...

i.e. The current pay levels in Thai schools mean that people go into teaching either because they REALLY want to do it, and the money is secondary (which is the few decent teachers you come across), or because it's the only job they could get. And don't get me started on the Asian-wide phenomenon of promoting the person with the longest tenure rather than the "best" person...

Edited October 29, 2012 by bkk_mike

[khaowong1]

More bullshit about teaching / learning and education. These articles always make it out like the people mentioned, who are contributing factors, are waiting in the wings and tugging at the leash to get with the program.

Instead, the teachers, parents, directors government and students are all out of whack with their issues of face, apathy, stupidity, self-seeking avarice, etc. that goes with it.

By 2017 there will be no significant way to measure how Thailand rates on an international scale beyond their white lies and misrepresenting statistics.

Sorry lady, this is not a top > down problem. It is a bottom < up problem that begins with the parents (yeah right!) and the development of the child before you get your hands on them; not to mention the continuous obstruction and disruptive factors that contribute to and cram the minds of the students with pure crap. The chief factor that comes to mind is Face.

Go fish. You're on the wrong path to success (as your type usually are) and should be baking cookies instead.

[spidermike007]

In fact the only way things will finally change, is when Thailand loses face internationally. Otherwise, no change will come from within. So, these international studies, and results are beneficial to Thailand, if they cause the LOS to become embarrassed to the point where they actually do something to fix the system, which is terribly broken. Most of Thailand's neighbors are making great strides when it comes to education. Considering how renowned the continent of Asia is for the emphasis they put on education, Thailand is seriously behind the curve. But for those of us who know Thailand well, this comes as no surprise. If the kids are not receiving a proper education, how bright does the future look? When in a recent study, 86% of math teachers in 16 provinces failed the test that they administer to their own students, how can we expect that the students will be able to comprehend the lessons?

[atyclb]

In fact the only way things will finally change, is when Thailand loses face internationally. Otherwise, no change will come from within. So, these international studies, and results are beneficial to Thailand, if they cause the LOS to become embarrassed to the point where they actually do something to fix the system, which is terribly broken. Most of Thailand's neighbors are making great strides when it comes to education. Considering how renowned the continent of Asia is for the emphasis they put on education, Thailand is seriously behind the curve. But for those of us who know Thailand well, this comes as no surprise. If the kids are not receiving a proper education, how bright does the future look? When in a recent study, 86% of math teachers in 16 provinces failed the test that they administer to their own students, how can we expect that the students will be able to comprehend the lessons?

Only 86% hmmm, perhaps then the quality of education actually is improving

[indyuk]

I think that the IPST analysis of assessments against current National and International standards that Thailand falls short of is fair and based on the sound data collected.

However Thailand is part of Asia and the solutions to these well understood problems could find some of their solutions in regional teaching intuitions. Both India and Indonesia have evolved education solutions that fit their Asian student's need to achieve. The Chinese have also motivated their students to attain remarkable progress in Science, Mathematics and Languages.

Asian solutions will all ways work best in Thailand. Thai culture is not an issue because it is just the Thai way of life. The views of the west are of little import to Thai educators. This is because the ingenuity of the west that is already of interest to the Thai is already adopted with enthusiasm.

[culicine]

The problem is the teacher and the school system as a whole starting from elementary up to the university level. A new breed of teachers need to be trained in progressive methods. However, it is a vicious circle as the teachers even at a university level are rarely interested in developing creativity. Student play it safe by regurgitating what their teachers' say to get a good grade. And students are mainly concerned with grades and not their learning.

Having provided assistance to elementary schools in Southern Thailand, I noticed many teachers turned on satelilte teaching on a television, while teaching unrelated subjects.

My comments are based on my personal experience having completed a phd here and taught many levels of students in Thai universities.

The Thai son of a family friend just graduated from engineering in the US after doing school in Thailand. He said the main difference was that US students study to get knowledge while Thai students study to get a piece of paper. That was quite an astute observation I thought...

[thirteenalpha]

Once they get all those tablet PCs distributed the IQ and EQ of all Thai children will rise exponentially.

[Xangsamhua]

The problem is the teacher and the school system as a whole starting from elementary up to the university level. A new breed of teachers need to be trained in progressive methods. However, it is a vicious circle as the teachers even at a university level are rarely interested in developing creativity. Student play it safe by regurgitating what their teachers' say to get a good grade. And students are mainly concerned with grades and not their learning.

Having provided assistance to elementary schools in Southern Thailand, I noticed many teachers turned on satelilte teaching on a television, while teaching unrelated subjects.

My comments are based on my personal experience having completed a phd here and taught many levels of students in Thai universities.

The Thai son of a family friend just graduated from engineering in the US after doing school in Thailand. He said the main difference was that US students study to get knowledge while Thai students study to get a piece of paper. That was quite an astute observation I thought...

I thought the idea was to study for both. You need both the knowledge and the credential.

Is the young man suggesting that US students have purer and loftier motives and, perhaps, would be happy not to sit for the exams after the knowledge was attained?

Perhaps what he really means is that, in the US, the bit of paper will not be handed over if you haven't acquired the knowledge. In Thailand, however ....

[Scott]

One of the differences I have seen between Western education and Asian Education is that in Asia the test scores reign supreme. Most learning is geared toward passing a test. In Western education knowledge is the goal and tests are the means by which a determination has been made that the goal has been met. These are generalizations and I don't know that someone is wiser through one system or the other.

I know I prefer the Western model and I have seen a lot of students who have enjoyed learning. I have not run into anyone yet who enjoys taking tests.

[rijb]

The concept of 'face' is not unique to Thailand. It would be interesting to know how other Asian countries factor 'face' issues into their (more successful?) education systems.

[Scott]

The difference between some of the other countries and Thailand is that a lot of times the people in power will actually listen to others--including employees. They will make a decision based on a significant amount of input. In Thailand, quite frequently, the person in charge makes a decision based on no input from anyone as lowly as employees.

People simply do not dare question those in authority. Some very unwise and avoidable decisions are made and then the issue of face complicates the situation immensely.

[cup-O-coffee]

cup-O-coffee, I see you, again, and I still like your thinking but I would like to point out the second last sentence in the second last paragraph.

"Now, different education ministers have different ideas of development. This affects continuity in policy implementation."

I am sure that those who are far more eloquent than I will be able to describe the true meaning of this little pearl.

Just a thought

Yes, I caught it all; even, "Now, different education ministers have different ideas of development. This affects continuity in policy implementation." But this is what you call jabberwocky. All talk; no do!

There is no solution as long as there is Face. Thailand will never lose Face with the International community, because anything outside of this eggshell does not matter. The Thais have plenty of mutual support amongst themselves to encourage stupidity and stubbornness.

When I read poster's suggestions that the teachers are overworked and/or do not listen, or the students are not up to snuff, or the directors or government won't listen, etc. I chuckle to myself because it is all face. Face, face face.

You cannot pour new wine into an old wineskin, and this what I use to describe as novel ideas and suggestions being put to the Thai mind. These ideas and suggestions simply will not work because that backwards, avaricious beast is designed to process those brilliant and insightfull suggestions in a non-productive and mal-intentioned manner. It's called Face; the origin of Thai-ness. Remove Face and they would have to start all over again.

I understand I am being a bit harsh, but all I get from the majority of these people is talk, talk talk and no do! Even the exceptions wallow in the midst of this crap and say the right things with a million-dollar smile, but nothing ever changes. So, where does that get them in my view? Hah! Not far. The saying, "It's their country", clearly is a double-edged sword that often cuts both ways. In this instance it shows that this is their version of normal, so why kick a dead dog?

Edited October 31, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[Xangsamhua]

When I read poster's suggestions that the teachers are overworked and/or do not listen, or the students are not up to snuff, or the directors or government won't listen, etc. I chuckle to myself because it is all face. Face, face face.

You cannot pour new wine into an old wineskin, and this what I use to describe as novel ideas and suggestions being put to the Thai mind. These ideas and suggestions simply will not work because that backwards, avaricious beast is designed to process those brilliant and insightfull suggestions in a non-productive and mal-intentioned manner. It's called Face; the origin of Thai-ness. Remove Face and they would have to start all over again.

Cup-O-coffee, while I sympathise with what you're saying, the importance of face is not just a Thai value. It's endemic throughout East Asia, and yet Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Korea are among the top 5 performers on PISA assessments, and, together with Taiwan, are no mean performers in the broader economic sphere. There must be more to Thai conservatism and insularity than just face.

Could it be simply a matter of choice, at least among those able to make choices? When Thai executives and senor managers look at the pressure to perform placed on people in the East Asian societies - managers, teachers, students, et al - maybe they think the surface harmony and lack of accountability in the Thai workplace (and classroom) is preferable. And I don't know if Thai civil servants are any less focussed on their own interests and the "little picture" than civil servants elsewhere (excepting Singapore, where they seem to be driven to achieve national and corporate goals), but I'd say there's much less pressure from above to make them look beyond their immediate office politics. Dealing with Thai civil servants over the past ten years I've been struck by (1) how pleasant they are, and (2) how little reforming (or any other) zeal they seem to have. They seem to be a bit hollow - almost as though they'd much rather be somewhere else. But this is only an impression based on limited experience.

Given the right catalyst, any group of people can stir themselves. If motivated, either by carrot or stick, or perhaps by shining example, otherwise lethargic people can be galvanized. Soldiers under good leaders achieve much more than those under mediocre ones. And I believe something like this occurred in the Department of Energy in the late 90s, when a small group of well-informed civil servants gained the confidence of their superiors and much reform took place as a result.

[culicine]

The difference between some of the other countries and Thailand is that a lot of times the people in power will actually listen to others--including employees. They will make a decision based on a significant amount of input. In Thailand, quite frequently, the person in charge makes a decision based on no input from anyone as lowly as employees.

People simply do not dare question those in authority. Some very unwise and avoidable decisions are made and then the issue of face complicates the situation immensely.

There's saying in Thai - one would rather have a lazy stupid boss than a hard working stupid one...exactly for those reasons. Bosses simply don't listen (or rarely listen), and take advice from their underlings. They are supposed to know it all anyway; admitting anything else is a loss of face.

[cup-O-coffee]

When I read poster's suggestions that the teachers are overworked and/or do not listen, or the students are not up to snuff, or the directors or government won't listen, etc. I chuckle to myself because it is all face. Face, face face.

You cannot pour new wine into an old wineskin, and this what I use to describe as novel ideas and suggestions being put to the Thai mind. These ideas and suggestions simply will not work because that backwards, avaricious beast is designed to process those brilliant and insightfull suggestions in a non-productive and mal-intentioned manner. It's called Face; the origin of Thai-ness. Remove Face and they would have to start all over again.

Cup-O-coffee, while I sympathise with what you're saying, the importance of face is not just a Thai value. It's endemic throughout East Asia, and yet Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Korea are among the top 5 performers on PISA assessments, and, together with Taiwan, are no mean performers in the broader economic sphere. There must be more to Thai conservatism and insularity than just face.

Could it be simply a matter of choice, at least among those able to make choices? When Thai executives and senor managers look at the pressure to perform placed on people in the East Asian societies - managers, teachers, students, et al - maybe they think the surface harmony and lack of accountability in the Thai workplace (and classroom) is preferable. And I don't know if Thai civil servants are any less focussed on their own interests and the "little picture" than civil servants elsewhere (excepting Singapore, where they seem to be driven to achieve national and corporate goals), but I'd say there's much less pressure from above to make them look beyond their immediate office politics. Dealing with Thai civil servants over the past ten years I've been struck by (1) how pleasant they are, and (2) how little reforming (or any other) zeal they seem to have. They seem to be a bit hollow - almost as though they'd much rather be somewhere else. But this is only an impression based on limited experience.

Given the right catalyst, any group of people can stir themselves. If motivated, either by carrot or stick, or perhaps by shining example, otherwise lethargic people can be galvanized. Soldiers under good leaders achieve much more than those under mediocre ones. And I believe something like this occurred in the Department of Energy in the late 90s, when a small group of well-informed civil servants gained the confidence of their superiors and much reform took place as a result.

The bottom line is Face; Thai Face. Everything else you suggested is either not relative, or a means to that end. It really is that simple.

The other countries have their forms of face, but it is not Thai Face, hence your comparisons are fruitless; respectfully.

Those other countries are heavily ruled and ran by foreign corporations and governments, and heavily rely on them and LISTEN to them when they make suggestions, and gladly accept assistance in order to even exist. They understand that their existence depends upon that; hence their Face is toned down and merely an ornament in lieu of more important things. What I mean is that those countries do not really run themselves as Thailand is (for the time).

Shanghai is still Communist and Face has nothing to do with anything you suggested, so I opt out Shanghai.

Korea is still heavily influenced by the North, yet gladly nurses at the teat of their U.S. benefactors (much to the chagrin of the North and the Southern sympathizers of the North who are in power and hope for a One Korea). Korea is, in a word, living a double standard that cannot continue.

Hong Kong is overseen, run and funded by Big Brother PRC.

Singapore is not really a nation in my view, but rather more like a strategic island refuelling stop-over for tankers on their way elsewhere. Singapore's economic dominence and luster would be severely compromised without their port.

Thailand is blessed with the means to exist and run its own affairs independantly, with the luxury of keeping its Thai Face intact and not needing any benefactors to exist independantly, but only for a very short time longer. It will eventually become like those other countries you mentioned, but the devastation remaining in the aftermath of giving up its Thai Face places its economic position in the world to come in the "unknown" bracket. That depends on how remorseful and humble they are when it will eventually come to accepting the same terms and conditions that Singapore, Shanghai, Hong Kong and Korea operate under their benefactors.

Edited November 2, 2012 by cup-O-coffee

[quandow]

I've been a teacher in Thailand for six years. I have taught both in a private Thai school and currently work in an International school. The difference is startling, and the short version is this: I could not fail a student in the Thai school system. I and my fellow teachers would have to retest, and in some cases, just change the answer sheets ourselves to get the student passed on to the next grade. By the time a student hits grade three, they catch on to this scam and stop trying. Until the Thai government admits and confronts this issue, failure will continue (though the answer sheets will reflect otherwise).

[culicine]

I've been a teacher in Thailand for six years. I have taught both in a private Thai school and currently work in an International school. The difference is startling, and the short version is this: I could not fail a student in the Thai school system. I and my fellow teachers would have to retest, and in some cases, just change the answer sheets ourselves to get the student passed on to the next grade. By the time a student hits grade three, they catch on to this scam and stop trying. Until the Thai government admits and confronts this issue, failure will continue (though the answer sheets will reflect otherwise).

How many students have you failed in your International school? Or were they just given "failing grades" - grades deemed below 50%, then passed to the next grade level? How did the parents feel about being asked to pay again to repeat the same grade level?

[cup-O-coffee]

I've been a teacher in Thailand for six years. I have taught both in a private Thai school and currently work in an International school. The difference is startling, and the short version is this: I could not fail a student in the Thai school system. I and my fellow teachers would have to retest, and in some cases, just change the answer sheets ourselves to get the student passed on to the next grade. By the time a student hits grade three, they catch on to this scam and stop trying. Until the Thai government admits and confronts this issue, failure will continue (though the answer sheets will reflect otherwise).

How many students have you failed in your International school? Or were they just given "failing grades" - grades deemed below 50%, then passed to the next grade level? How did the parents feel about being asked to pay again to repeat the same grade level?

And is it really an International School, or just a school with that adjective tacked on, but without a sister school located in another country?