Accepting The Farang Status, And The Implications

[bangkokburning]

Why does these idiots threafs prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply day foreigner

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

To funny. So you got yourself Thai citizenship and dont want to be labeled farang because you paid some money and did some paperwork. Well, Thais dont see it that way pal. You will always be farang.:

Thai foreigners? Thai Chinese are Thai!! They were born in Thailand. What an assinine statement. I did not state that a very white luk kreung is farang and neither do Thais.

If farang doesnt mean foreigner, suppose you enlighten us. Suppose you tell.us what that shop.owner in Sisaket is really saying when she smileswarmly and calls you farang.

They do indeed say farang.

I dont think its ok for YOUR family to call you farang, but you were the idiot yhat chose them and you are the idiot that continues to let it happen.

What your MIL chooses to label you as I cannot help nor care. My MIL calls me by my first names and every family member and that was made clear almost at outset, on the first visit.

Up to you. Not my problem.

If other Thais in the street call me farang, I have been here far too long to care so nust pass another beer over here and we can cry over your naturalized status not being accepted by the Thais. Maybe you can tatoo in on your forehead but until then, cry me a river.

Edited November 6, 2012 by bangkokburning

[BigJohnnyBKK]

i'm a German who has lived in the U.S. of A. where i was an "alien" for 15 years. and that was long before i selected an alien as avatar.

My mum still buys all her Weißwurst from Hammacher Schlemmer, but insists her home-made sauerkraut is better. Unfortunately her childhood cultural brainwashing is starting to show through the later post-war Yankee programming, so it's just as well she doesn't live in the city itself anymore. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If farang dorsnt mean foreigner, suppose you enlighten us.

They do indeed say farang.

It means white person, honky, Caucasian, "of European ancestry" or whatever other euphemism is currently acceptable to designate that commonly-accepted but unscientific racial classification.

If you bothered to read the thread from the beginning (or the previous dozens in the past few months on exactly the same topic) you'll see all your questions answered.

Just don't pay attention to the ones by the OP and you'll be OK (although some of what s/he says is occasionally correct too).

[Jingthing]

I wonder are Jews also considered khaek? If so that would be interesting as that word sounds very similar to a derogatory term for Jews that I won't mention.

[bangkokburning]

Big John - sorry if yiur kid gets that label. Its pretty nasty. Despite you knowing its origins I do not think anyine in Issan thinks she is the daughter of the Andanan - Nicobar version of Jack Sparrow.

It is basically the near equivilent of the "N" word and nothing remotely close to "farang".

Having yiour kid called kaek is not the same as labeling sll of us farang and you know that very well.

[bangkokburning]

If farang dorsnt mean foreigner, suppose you enlighten us.

They do indeed say farang.

It means white person, honky, Caucasian, "of European ancestry" or whatever other euphemism is currently acceptable to designate that com

monly-accepted but unscientific racial classification.

If you bothered to read the thread from the beginning (or the previous dozens in the past few months on exactly the same topic) you'll see all your questions answered.

Just don't pay attention to the ones by the OP and you'll be OK (although some of what s/he says is occasionally correct too).

So what. Even if that is the way some use it. You know the score, its common practice. We all have targets on our backs here. So what, really.

What is so ROTFGLMFHO is that what part of this society outside of our families do we have equality? Even the lowliest street vendor gets a rise in his otherwise dreary day my saying farang. Who cares.

You live her for donkeys years

Cant vote

Cant own land

Cant work

Cant own a business

Csnt

Cant

Cant

And you people worry because someone calls you farang. Too funny.

Like I said — if your family calls you farang, I suggest a new family. Mine doesnt. Maybe its a general lack of tespect for you or maybe you married into one really low class family.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Big John - sorry if yiur kid gets that label. Its pretty nasty. Despite you knowing its origins I do not think anyine in Issan thinks she is the daughter of the Andanan - Nicobar version of Jack Sparrow.

It is basically the near equivilent of the "N" word and nothing remotely close to "farang".

Having yiour kid called kaek is not the same as labeling sll of us farang and you know that very well.

Actually it was by her mother and grandmother, and just as the blacks back home can use the N word amongst themselves in good humour, it was in the same spirit in this case.

And honestly I do know a few dozen Thais of such ethnicities and they tend to shrug it off, there isn't AFAIC a commonly used generic classifier to replace khaek, so that's often what they're called even if no put-down is intended.

Note that the ones that have actually acculturated here don't even smell bad, they'll even complain about farang not showering enough 8-)

The other funny one I like is "ee-Gan!" for yanks, the leading ee sound makes it sound really insulting but their face lights up with that 500W grin at the end so no harm no foul.

Being fat and old you get a pretty thick skin here, not to mention having been toughened up in the biker bars and goldfields of Australia as a younger "septic" in decades past. . .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I wonder are Jews also considered khaek? If so that would be interesting as that word sounds very similar to a derogatory term for Jews that I won't mention.

Few Thais have every heard of Jews, so they'd just go off appearances, many Ashkenazim would get called farang, most Sephardim would be kaek as with Greeks, southern Italians. . .

Relevant (and hilarious IMO) link

More educational material here

Edited November 6, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[DP25]

Kha-min = Khmer people. That is offensive. The Thai say it and don't even realize.

Khamen isn't offensive. That is how you pronounce Khmer in Thai. In Thai consonants change sounds based on their position in the syllable. R and L change to an N at the end of a word. Same reason Thais say footbawn instead of football. It's no more offensive than French, German, Thai etc, it's only offensive if you want it to be

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Khamen isn't offensive. That is how you pronounce Khmer in Thai. In Thai consonants change sounds based on their position in the syllable. R and L change to an N at the end of a word. Same reason Thais say footbawn instead of football. It's no more offensive than French, German, Thai etc, it's only offensive if you want it to be

Unfortunately just as with phamaa, khmer does have derogatory implications since most Thais are taught from birth that they are thieving lying dirty sub-human species.

When I tell my tall white-skinned rich university students that the mother of my children is Khmer-Surin they all burst out laughing in unison every one. And many come up to me in serious confidence after class and warn me about the black magic those girls are famous for using to catch their farang.

And I honestly believe that none have any idea they are being stupid or offensive in any way, like trying to explain about water to a fish, that's just their reality, as much as ours is for us. . .

Edited November 6, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[MacChine]

So if one's inlaws are calling you farang and it's offensive, then how is it not offensive when others use it?

I think it's rude as hell and when professional office worker types use it, I tell them I prefer my name to my skin color.

It's racially based term, just like darky and a good indicator of the racism prevalent in the culture.

Edited November 6, 2012 by MacChine

[fatfather]

Cannot really get the point. I'm a farang. Because my family wasn't able to pronounce my falang name correctly they give me a thai name instandly. Whether this is better I don't know. It tooks me three to four years to get the feeling to be accepted and respected by the family clan and the village. It tooks another three to four years to recognize that that is BS. Like anywhere in the world you will have friends and maybe some people you dislike. The majority lives just next to you, you are friendly with them, occasionally you hang around with them..... no issues. Some call me farang, and? Live your own life, be yourself, respect the people who respect you and enjoy. Thailand is wonderful.

To the OP: The family shouldn't call you farang. If your name is difficult to pronounce for them, or if they like you, you would have a Thai name already.

Fatfather

Sent from my HTC Desire HD A9191 using Thaivisa Connect App

[chiangmaikelly]

Khamen isn't offensive. That is how you pronounce Khmer in Thai. In Thai consonants change sounds based on their position in the syllable. R and L change to an N at the end of a word. Same reason Thais say footbawn instead of football. It's no more offensive than French, German, Thai etc, it's only offensive if you want it to be

Unfortunately just as with phamaa, khmer does have derogatory implications since most Thais are taught from birth that they are thieving lying dirty sub-human species.

When I tell my tall white-skinned rich university students that the mother of my children is Khmer-Surin they all burst out laughing in unison every one. And many come up to me in serious confidence after class and warn me about the black magic those girls are famous for using to catch their farang.

And I honestly believe that none have any idea they are being stupid or offensive in any way, like trying to explain about water to a fish, that's just their reality, as much as ours is for us. . .

Ya but outside of being thieving lying dirty sub-human species what's so bad about them? I mean it's not like they are a Farang or an Indian.

[DP25]

Khamen isn't offensive. That is how you pronounce Khmer in Thai. In Thai consonants change sounds based on their position in the syllable. R and L change to an N at the end of a word. Same reason Thais say footbawn instead of football. It's no more offensive than French, German, Thai etc, it's only offensive if you want it to be

Unfortunately just as with phamaa, khmer does have derogatory implications since most Thais are taught from birth that they are thieving lying dirty sub-human species.

When I tell my tall white-skinned rich university students that the mother of my children is Khmer-Surin they all burst out laughing in unison every one. And many come up to me in serious confidence after class and warn me about the black magic those girls are famous for using to catch their farang.

And I honestly believe that none have any idea they are being stupid or offensive in any way, like trying to explain about water to a fish, that's just their reality, as much as ours is for us. . .

Many Thais do look down on Khamen, but that's not my point. The word itself is not an ethnic slur like the poster thinks, it is the official word of that ethnicity and language using Thai pronunciation. Any ethnic term, including ones that are not inherently insulting, can be an insult if used by certain people in a certain manner.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

So if one's inlaws are calling you farang and it's offensive, then how is it not offensive when others use it?

I think it's rude as hell and when professional office worker types use it, I tell them I prefer my name to my skin color.

It's racially based term, just like darky and a good indicator of the racism prevalent in the culture.

You may consider it rude by your own culturally taught standards, but the fact that your sophisticated and well-educated office staff use it in the work context should show you that it isn't rude by theirs.

And we are the guests here.

How polite is it for a foreign guest to tell his hosts that they aren't living up to his PC standards of politeness?

"Asian" is a racially based term, as is "African-American", and both are acceptable terms in our language given appropriate context.

It is not polite IMO for even the most uneducated peasant to say the equivalent of "hey farang" once they've been introduced to me properly, especially if I've discreetly and politely informed him I'd prefer him to use my name.

However I still wouldn't get het up about it if it ever happens, even within my own family - which has never happened. Although I can understand someone thinking it implies a lack of respect, but without being there, and seeing the average level of cross-cultural understanding exhibited here I would tend to give the Thais the benefit of the doubt if I'm not there to observe it directly myself.

[hookedondhamma]

Khamen isn't offensive. That is how you pronounce Khmer in Thai. In Thai consonants change sounds based on their position in the syllable. R and L change to an N at the end of a word. Same reason Thais say footbawn instead of football. It's no more offensive than French, German, Thai etc, it's only offensive if you want it to be

Unfortunately just as with phamaa, khmer does have derogatory implications since most Thais are taught from birth that they are thieving lying dirty sub-human species.

When I tell my tall white-skinned rich university students that the mother of my children is Khmer-Surin they all burst out laughing in unison every one. And many come up to me in serious confidence after class and warn me about the black magic those girls are famous for using to catch their farang.

And I honestly believe that none have any idea they are being stupid or offensive in any way, like trying to explain about water to a fish, that's just their reality, as much as ours is for us. . .

That last sentence speaks volumes. For what it is, I notice more nationalism than anything else blocking their ability to take on a new idea and think 'outside of the box.' After being here for a while, I don't classify them as racist, but more so as ignorant. As long as that superiority complex remains, it'll be hard to recognize others as the same.

One of my friends is half Indian, half Khmer. Straight-up, good guy - was born here and went through a rough time in his childhood. I asked him how he was able to shake it off, and he told me "one of me, many of them" - when the small pudgy kid stuffing pork balls into his mouth shouts 'falang' repeatedly (or whatever else I get mistaken for that day), I just remember I'm not thai, and I'm no longer bothered.

This is a very interesting discussion. BigJohnnyBKK, I gotta say it's great to read your replies.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Many Thais do look down on Khamen, but that's not my point. The word itself is not an ethnic slur like the poster thinks, it is the official word of that ethnicity and language using Thai pronunciation. Any ethnic term, including ones that are not inherently insulting, can be an insult if used by certain people in a certain manner.

Yes you are technically correct.

Sort of like the word "Negro" or "cripple", the fact that it's become perceived as disparaging is a result of the meaning's object being looked down upon, so the PC crowd tries to remedy that with "black" and "disabled", which then has to become "African-American" and "special needs". Or someone from Germany has to walk on eggshells talking about his racist ancestors with his schoolmates in New York, at least the Jews haven't campaigned to have their designator changed.

Stand up and be proud this is what we are (all together now) "Farang!"

[bangkokburning]

Well, since Thai's all seem to be so jealous of white skin - we should just take being called whitey as a compliment.

With all the undercurrent of racism in the us election, all the outright hatred of thr president, much of it intertwined with him being black. With all the hierarchy, eliteism, classism and subtle bigotry in Europe. With all the outright racism in Straya and general.xenophobia in Kiwiville. The outright hostility to anyrhing non Arab or Muslim.in the ME...the whole thread makes me smile.

Thais are very poorly educated people that allow millions of farang tramp thru their country annually. Ive got 99 problems but being called farang aint one.

Edited November 6, 2012 by bangkokburning

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is a very interesting discussion. BigJohnnyBKK, I gotta say it's great to read your replies.

Why thank you I sincerely appreciate that, maybe buy a sandwich for the next down and out farang you meet begging in the street, it may well be me 8-)

[hookedondhamma]

Thais are very poorly educated people that allow millions of farang tramp thru their country annually. Ive got 99 problems but being called farang aint one.

I don't think they're poorly educated, but I think things are the way they are due to their wanting to be percieved as top-tier with other European FALANG countries, and America FALANGLAND. Developing too fast can have consequences. 'Gan bpen ciwilized' is something that many strive for. Cultural beliefs run deep here, and impressing others is something that can take high priority.

That doesn't go without saying that I've met some of the most beautiful, loving people here that I wouldn't think twice about helping out if the time came (well, just not financially ... ). Thailand's a great place, great weather. As posted in another reply, we're guests here, and I agree with that. Enjoy the weather and watch the fireworks light up the sky.

Edited November 6, 2012 by hookedondhamma

[hookedondhamma]

This is a very interesting discussion. BigJohnnyBKK, I gotta say it's great to read your replies.

Why thank you I sincerely appreciate that, maybe buy a sandwich for the next down and out farang you meet begging in the street, it may well be me 8-)

Lol, what is your definition of a sandwich?? Maybe one of those sandwich-shaped-objects from the 7?

[BigJohnnyBKK]

This is a very interesting discussion. BigJohnnyBKK, I gotta say it's great to read your replies.

Why thank you I sincerely appreciate that, maybe buy a sandwich for the next down and out farang you meet begging in the street, it may well be me 8-)

Lol, what is your definition of a sandwich?? Maybe one of those sandwich-shaped-objects from the 7?

Well if it is me, I'd prefer an Italian foot-long from Subway please. Double meat with both ham and salami, mustard on the meat side, mayo with cheese on the other, lots of salad bit of onion extra tomatoes soaked in vinaigrette, some jalapeños, black pepper and sweet onion sauce and a bag of plain chips please.

Haven't been able to afford one of those in 3+ years, costs as much as my 9-person household spends altogether in two or three days.

Know what I'll be dreaming of tonight. . .

Edited November 6, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[Neeranam]

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner...

...say those who possess a wealth of "no idea"

Naam, can I ask how where and how long it took you to become fluent in the Thai language?

[Neeranam]

Why does these idiots threafs prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply day foreigner

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

Neeranam, I completely agree with your objections to his nonsense, but then you have to ruin it with that last bit.

To be honest you sound as bad as the Bangkok Thais with such contempt for country peasants. In general the latter are IMO a much better quality of human than the former. . .

You misunderstand me. I would much rather spend time with country bumkins that Bangkokonians. I've worked in Univerities in Bangkok and Isarn and the Isarn experience is much much better. I've lived in Isarn for many years now. I have many baan nok friends due to an organisation I am in. I agree they are a better quality. Here I was thinking that the only time a Thai family would call a foreigner farang would be if they were used to being introduced to many ie daughter took many home from Pattaya.

I really can't imagine a Westerner being called farang to his face by his family - has this actually happened to anyone? If so what did you say?

Edited November 6, 2012 by Neeranam

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Here I was thinking that the only time a Thai family would call a foreigner farang would be if they were used to being introduced to many ie daughter took many home from Pattaya.

Most sex workers are quite selective about who they take home, as very often the family and neighbors go through the motions of pretending she's not actually a sex worker.

I really can't imagine a Westerner being called farang to his face by his family - has this actually happened to anyone? If so what did you say?

I can certainly "imagine" it, but I agree in the sense of "hey farang" by someone who's actually learned his name. But in a big family there's always a few village idiots, drunk or otherwise who would use it that way, with no insult intended.

I'm also sure many think that this has happened to them, when often it's just side conversations about farang generally which he misinterprets as being about him personally.

And finally, just as we get honkies here going on about "stupid bloody Thais" in an angry tone, the neutral-meaning term can be used in a derogatory manner.

But the bottom line is that the term itself has no such connotation unless specifically used in that way, any more than "jing jok" does when I swear at them leaving spots on my computer screen.

[Neeranam]

Why does these idiots threafs prattle onlike this?

In the end it all means foreigner. So bloody what, you are a foreigner here and always will be - even with your new PR stats whoopie!!

Thai/Lao say farang

Khmer say barang

Malay/Indo say orang asling

Germans says ouslander

Americans simply day foreigner

Now, if your family is calling you "farang", you have a personal problem.

To everyone else get over your petty self abdorbed selves.

<deleted>!

So much wrong here I don't have time to say what I want.

What about those with Thai citizenship?

Would you say that Thai Chinese are foreigners and always will be?

'farang' doesn't mean foreigner.

Loatians dont say 'farang'

Why do you think it's ok for your family to call you farang - this is proposterous unless you call your family the rice farmers in Nakhon Nowhere that you visit on your yearly visit from Pattaya.

To funny. So you got yourself Thai citizenship and dont want to be labeled farang because you paid some money and did some paperwork. Well, Thais dont see it that way pal. You will always be farang.:

Thai foreigners? Thai Chinese are Thai!! They were born in Thailand. What an assinine statement. I did not state that a very white luk kreung is farang and neither do Thais.

If farang doesnt mean foreigner, suppose you enlighten us. Suppose you tell.us what that shop.owner in Sisaket is really saying when she smileswarmly and calls you farang.

They do indeed say farang.

I dont think its ok for YOUR family to call you farang, but you were the idiot yhat chose them and you are the idiot that continues to let it happen.

What your MIL chooses to label you as I cannot help nor care. My MIL calls me by my first names and every family member and that was made clear almost at outset, on the first visit.

Up to you. Not my problem.

If other Thais in the street call me farang, I have been here far too long to care so nust pass another beer over here and we can cry over your naturalized status not being accepted by the Thais. Maybe you can tatoo in on your forehead but until then, cry me a river.

I don't have Thai citizenship - I could get it easily and might someday.

Thais DO call very white look kreungs 'farang'. I have kids, I know.

Do you really think Si sa ket is in Laos? The Lao word is 'baksida'. Some in that Thai province speak Lao, some Kymer, some Thai some Suai.

Farang means Caucasian.

Do Thais call foreigners farang? NO of course Japanese are not, or Chinese, or Ethiopian, or a hundred other countries.

I don't understand the rest of your argumentative ramble as I never mentioned my MIL.

Of course my family call me by my name - how strange to think otherwise. I can't believe that you had to tell your MIL not to call you farang!!

[Neeranam]

I'm also sure many think that this has happened to them, when often it's just side conversations about farang generally which he misinterprets as being about him personally.

I agree here. I hear my family tell neighbours about how farang like this food etc that 15 years ago I paranoidly assumed they were talking about me personally.

When I first lived in Bangkok and took the bus to work every day I got pissed off with the conductress saying farang to me every time. I "knew" that she was saying something bad about me even though I could speak Thai. I felt a real tool when 6 months later I realised she was saying go to the back of the bus. She was in fact saying "kang lang".

Assumptions are dangerous when learning a language. Even after learning for 10 years I made some silly assumptions. Maybe now I'm assuming wrongly.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Assumptions are dangerous when learning a language. Even after learning for 10 years I made some silly assumptions. Maybe now I'm assuming wrongly.

Especially when we're constantly being told how wonderful our Thai is, and then realize they're just being polite.

Get out where people aren't used to the way we mangle it and talk to strangers, we have to try four times to try to be understood with the most basic stuff.

Like we can understand Thainglish much more easily than newcomers, our ear's just tuned to their patterns.

[ayayay]

Sort of like the word "Negro" or "cripple", the fact that it's become perceived as disparaging is a result of the meaning's object being looked down upon, so the PC crowd tries to remedy that with "black" and "disabled", which then has to become "African-American" and "special needs". Or someone from Germany has to walk on eggshells talking about his racist ancestors with his schoolmates in New York, at least the Jews haven't campaigned to have their designator changed.

Stand up and be proud this is what we are (all together now) "Farang!"

So if you were crippled, or was a Jew, you would like your wife to point that out to her freind as soon as you and your wife where going out?

"we are are going out, me and my husband, he is crippled"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is a Jew"

"we are going out, me and my husband, he is white skinned/farang"

Or would you expect her to be a little more familiar with you after 10 years of marriage, to the point were she sees you as a person rather than a white skinned person who happnes to be married to me"

If you are married to a cripple, you dont mentionen that to everyone, after a while it is not important, because you will see beyond that she is crippled.

A dark skinned person would not walk around and call himself darkskin, for example, can a dark skinned person have any food to eat around sukhumvit.

I, a dark skin, would like to rent an apartment near suhkumvit area, are there any good places for a dark skin to hang out?

[ayayay]

One of countless scenarios inthe US where it would't bother me at all if I overheard:

Thai 1: That guy' in the blue shirt is my neighbor. His names SteeleJoe (Indicates in my direction as I stand amid a group of Asians)

Thai 2: Which one, the fat guy?

Thai 1: No, the Farang.

Thai 2: Oh, him. He looks incredibly intelligent and charismatic. And so handsome. Introduce me please.

ario.

A scenario that wouldn't be OK:

Thai 1: That guy in the blue shirt is my neighbor.

Thai 2: What's his name?

Thai 1: Who cares? I just call him "Farang".

Thai 2: Well he looks incredibly intelligent and charismatic. And so handsome. But I think he's coming over to punch you in the head.

Funny you mentioned that, my co worker told me a customer had been visiting our office and wanted to see me, of course she pointed out, "he farang", I asked her if he was American, as I was expecting a customer from the US, she said something along the lines of "ah i dont know, just farang" then actually realizing, it might have sounded a little rude, she said somethig about it was difficult for her to see any difference between farangs.

Edited November 7, 2012 by ayayay