Obtaining Us Citizenship For Newborn Baby

[4evermaat]

not sure if this should be here or in the family section. I have 1/2 Thai son that I wish to pass on US citizenship to.

http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/service/birth-of-a-u.s.-citizen-in-thailand.html

I have scheduled the appointment with the US embassy Bangkok American Citizen Services (ACS) at their online appointment scheduler.

I have the following ready

- my proof of US residency for the minimum 5 years and passport as proof of US citizenship (military service + high school transcripts).

- thai birth certificate. I understand this must be translated into English

- newborn must be physically present

- gf will be there with thai ID.

- I will need to sign the Consular Report of Birth Abroad in front of the ACS officer at the appointment. $100 fee.

- I will need to sign the Affidavit of Parentage (support of child).

- I will be getting a US passport as well. $105 fee. Requires the passport application and 2 - 2x2 inch passport photos. These photo places are supposed to be nearby the embassy, like the translation places.

Is there any tips or anything to look out for? I would hate to waste a trip over some technicality. Like any specific questions the ACS officer may ask? Or any additional documentations.

Or best place to get the photo / translation done? What time do those photo and passport photo places open (near the embassy)? fees?

I was also wondering if the name given on the Report of Birth Abroad can be different than the thai name given on thai birth certificate (even if different than the English-sounding equivalent)? In other words, I can give him a totally different name for his US citizenship?

Thanks in advance.

[ubonjoe]

It looks like you have every thing needed according to info posted on website and link on the page also.

I suspect that they will ask for a DNA test since you are not married to the child's mother.

Be sure you make an appointment. Appointments are mandatory and you will not even get through the front doors without one.

List of translators from embassy: http://bangkok.usembassy.gov/root/pdfs/translators_photographers.pdf

[Baloo22]

I noticed this one from the referenced website. If you are a naturalized U.S. citizen, this is one of those technicalities that could trip you up.

• Certificate of Naturalization (required for naturalized citizens even if presenting a U.S. passport)
  

[maprao]

You must make both names the same. Otherwise you will come unstuck later on. Easiest way is give him a wetern name a thai middle name and your surname (family name).

The only hurdle yoiu may face is the GF might want a Thai family name for her blue book.

Edited October 31, 2012 by maprao

[4evermaat]

I noticed this one from the referenced website. If you are a naturalized U.S. citizen, this is one of those technicalities that could trip you up.

• Certificate of Naturalization (required for naturalized citizens even if presenting a U.S. passport)
  

no problems there.

You must make both names the same. Otherwise you will come unstuck later on. Easiest way is give him a wetern name a thai middle name and your surname (family name).

The only hurdle yoiu may face is the GF might want a Thai family name for her blue book.

According to the reply I received from ACS official, I can prepare an affidavid to give the newborn whatever name I desire. I figured so as it is a totally new 'person' legally.

I'm taking the cross provincial train in, although unfortunately the days before were all booked to get that first class separate berth. I understand that a taxi is about 20 minutes away from the embassy. I'm wondering how long it takes to get the docs translated and photos done. I assume those places open shortly before or as the embassy opens (appx 7am) and the appt is 9:30 am.

Any experiences?

[Maestro]

According to the reply I received from ACS official, I can prepare an affidavid to give the newborn whatever name I desire. I figured so as it is a totally new 'person' legally...

Yes, your son can have different names on his Thai and US passports. It is when he travels abroad that complications may arise if he uses his Thai passport to leave Thailand and his US passport to go through immigration in the destination country. Which name will you have the airline put on his ticket? Which name will the check-in staff put on the passenger list and do you have any control over this?

Additional complications can arise in other situations when the names do not match, eg scholastic records, marriage records, etc, nothing that can't be solved with a detailed explanation and perhaps some notarised documents, but some people may consider it too much of a hassle.

[4evermaat]

I just found out that the translation does NOT have to be certified by the Thai ministry of foreign affairs. In fact, I (or any competent person) can do the translation if I wanted to. I saw this site as having sample english birth certificate and other common thai legal documents

http://www.thaicongenvancouver.org/cms/index.php?option=content&task=view&id=120

I'm wondering if fujifilm or kodak places not near the embassy will do the passport photos that are 5.1 cm x 5.1 cm

[ubonjoe]

I think I would still have an official translator do the translation of the birth certificate. Trying to save 400 baht for the translation could cost you a lot of time if they did not accept it. You should check with one of the translators listed on embassy document I posted (I have used No.5 before) and ask if you could send them a copy by fax or email so that the translation could be done when you arrive in Bangkok.

You should be able to get the photos at a lot of locations. The size (includes the head not just overall size ) and background color is the most important.

[4evermaat]

I think I would still have an official translator do the translation of the birth certificate. Trying to save 400 baht for the translation could cost you a lot of time if they did not accept it. You should check with one of the translators listed on embassy document I posted (I have used No.5 before) and ask if you could send them a copy by fax or email so that the translation could be done when you arrive in Bangkok.

You should be able to get the photos at a lot of locations. The size (includes the head not just overall size ) and background color is the most important.

Prices?

[ubonjoe]

The going price for translations is 400 baht per page. Just opened file I posted and number 5 is 500 baht which still is not a lot of money.

[4evermaat]

The going price for translations is 400 baht per page. Just opened file I posted and number 5 is 500 baht which still is not a lot of money.

I called thinking about your tip to email it and have it ready when I arrive tomorrow. They want 700 baht for rush service. If I gave them 2 days, it would only be 350 baht. Only for the front side, which they say is the only side I need. The passport photos done at the same place is 150 baht, which is reasonable.

But 700 baht for a standard form translation? 350 baht is kind of out there already, but acceptable. This is where others can learn from my mistake; get your request in early. To think I was going to walk up for service 2 hours prior. Although i'm wondering between two thai friends (one worked overseas and another one an American Univerity grad) or if even fiverr.com was worth it, although I was considering it 150 baht for 600 words, which would cover front and back. But like you said....hard to take a chance when I'm this close to getting it altogether.

And yes, I was able to phone and then email the request to #4 aLanguageLover.

[4evermaat]

update: the process is actually straight-forward. I took the gf and newborn with me. We took the train to Hualumphon train station Bangkok. Do your best to get a metered taxi THAT YOU SEE PULL IN; these go very quickly. Not sure why the locals seemed to ignore the metered taxis in the lot across the street. Alternatively, you have the tuk-tuk. As soon as they hear "embassy USA (thai: sa-taan-two-t U S A)", they will price 250 baht. The 3rd tuk tuk reasonably came down to 120 baht and we took it. The Language Lover translation place is on the same street about 3 buildings down from the US embassy. You need to make sure your taxi knows to pull up on the same side as the embassy as there is no easy u-turn the way the street pattern is. Unless you want to use the walk bridge, discuss with taxi en route to give him adequate time to prepare.

First stop: translator's office. I used a Language Lover (#5 on the pdf above). From the US embassy front gate, make a right so you are walking against the traffic. GPF skyscraper office building, but you probably cannot see the GPF or Language Lover sign. But you can see "Herbalife or Herbal life" and the "Security and Exchange Commission" signs at waist level. That's the building. Go inside and it's suite 117. If you came down the street opposite the embassy, you could make a u-turn way further down and then come up on the correct side.

Get there 1.5-2 hrs prior to appointment if possible to ensure you can look over the translation and get proper passport photos. 6 proper passport-size photos for 150 baht is pretty good deal. I picked up one photo set for myself also. Takes about 10-15 minutes if no one is in line. Make sure the photo looks correct before she hits the print button.

There was some guy who came in after us and wanted passport photos. One of his comments was "you should already know what size photo...you do this all the time" when the lady asked what size for the dutch passport. They don't know every single country, but they had USA/UK standards on the wall. And you are in the room as she edits the photo, so you can grab the photo requirements from your state department or passport dept website and have them ready.

Ask the translator to email the translation and/or passport photos to you, write down the email address for them clearly. The passport photos are already digitized, but the signed translation may require a scan (color). I had to pay the rush service price of 700 baht, so I might as well get full service. to get the 350 baht price, email or drop off the documents 2 days minimum.

Second stop: US Embassy, about 20-30 minutes early, but I understand you can come as early as you want (no guarantees that you can be seen until appointment time) Have your appointment email / screenshot printout ready. There is a line for locals and a line for ACS/US Citizen/American Nationals. Both you and your wife head to that line and show your passports (or ID card if spouse does not have passport. You will be checked for appointment status, given a laminated queue number and then directed to the security checkpoint. You check ALL of your bags and valuables at the counter. You cannot take your cell phone or any electronic device, but they give you a zip locked pouch with a key lock on it to store small valuables. The thai national must place their ID card in the pouch. Hold onto the key around your wrist until you leave. Larger bags are placed to the side nearby. Pass through the security metal detectors, get scanned again manually, and then proceed to the ACS building.

You check in at counter 3. The representative immediately asks you for your appointment paper and what service you need. Then pull out all the required forms. He will check them over and give you the ability to fill out any missing information. It's like he begins processing what is done, and then adds to it one by one until the 'packet' is complete. In this way, they can service a few people simultaneously, your tax dollars at work . Once the private room is free, you (and your family) will shift to the private room to complete the paperwork and there is one additional paper that the thai national has to write in english (or thai) something to the effect of "I, [mother/father's name] do swear that [child's name] is my biological son and [father's name] is the biological father.

If you are unmarried, they will ask where you met your gf/spouse, what profession they are in, how long you two have been together, and how long you have been in thailand, and what are you doing here (profession, school, etc). It wasn't a grilling, but they did want to know. I did not have DNA test done.

Once you have confirmed all of the services that are required, he returns the forms to you to go to the cashier to pay. The exchange rate is 1 USD = 32 baht, so bring your USD cash or USD credit card to avoid losing on the exchange. The consular will then collect back the paperwork with the receipt and, if he has not already asked, if you want your documents mailed to you within thailand. If you want them mailed, he will give you a slip to fill out and take downstairs to the Thai post office inside the Embassy property. The prepaid envelope + EMS service is 75 baht. Before you hand the envelope back to the consular, I had my gf put the thai eqivalent of the mailing address right below the english and I wrote it in such a way to leave plenty of space (although the envelope is large enough to write it on the back). I think I forgot to put my phone number on the envelope, but it should be fine. The point is to make the opportunity for error as close to 0 as possible.

The consular officer will then interview you, ask those questions again, make some friendly chat, and return ALL of your originals to you. You sign everything in front of him and your spouse/gf will sign that statement she had to hand-write earlier. Then the officer tells you that everything is good to go and in 2-4 weeks you should have all of your documentation in your hands. I understand thai gov't offices (immigration) is the exact opposite, you need several copies of everything. I came prepared with 2-4 copies of everything only to find out the US embassy makes all the copies for you that they need. Save a tree?

Except for the interview, the entire process is like an assembly line. It takes about 1 - 2 hours max to complete everything from you enter the embassy to exit. You collect your valuables and bags on the way out. Check your bags right there to ensure you have everything.

The embassy staff is a combination of thai and foreigners and are fairly proficient in both languages (at least the ACS consular staff). For the birth certificate, It is possible to use your own translator not on the embassy list. Just make sure the translator's name (english and thai), signature, and phone # and the words "certified correct translation" (english and thai) are at the bottom. Only the front of the birth certificate had to be translated. They are also big on the appointment-only thing. You might be late or early, but make sure you at least have an appointment. If you need to change or get an alternative appointment (even if it is earlier than what is shown on the online appointment system), you can call or email ACS; they appear accommodating.

Although I did not order it initially, I went ahead and got extra passport pages. After you pay, it takes about 20 minutes...they do it while you wait to be interviewed. $82.

And I was able to give him a middle name of my choosing no problem. Just make sure every page that you fill out has the exact same name you are giving him for the report of birth abroad and the passport.

Hualumphon is actually not that far from Wong Wien Yai. The embassy is a little further.

[Baloo22]

Great update 4evermatt! Thanks. Glad everything worked out well for you. Congratulations to you, your girlfriend, and to our newest citizen of the United States of America!

Edited November 6, 2012 by Baloo22

[bangkokburning]

To get to US embassy you could also take the MRT to Asoke, change to BTS and ride up to Chidlom. Walk a tiny bit to Wireless and then 10min down Wireless rd. Of course, w/o the kid.

Happy its working out so well for you.

[ubonjoe]

You can also take MRT from train station to Lumpini and walk from there to embassy.

[4evermaat]

how about this 3 days later: The staff apparently forgot to get a signature for the passport application. So guess who has to return to the embassy to get this done? Turns out the supervisor allowed mailed application with signatures instead, since we already verified everything else. I didn't start getting really mad until about 20 minutes after I hung up with one of the guys who acknowledged the error .

I suppose one could go over with a checklist all of the applications with the ACS officer to ensure that all required documentation is signed. I mean the signatures, although they only take 10 minutes, comprise of 90% of the entire application process. So you would have to take initiative to do this until a formal checklist is in place. Or say something like "sir/ma'am....can we go over each individual application required one more time to make sure we got everything?" So perhaps for those planning a trip, maybe make that the first thing you do as you hang out in Thailand a bit longer. This way you can still cover a potential mistake within the week if one comes up.

.I was telling a fellow expat and he proceeded to talk about the visa process to immigrate to the USA....Missing photos, misplacing evidence submitted, having to start the entire process over because the deadline is past because you couldn't get an appointment, etc. I think he was suggesting that I got off fairly easy. I guess in a way they can be commended, because at least they worked out a simple solution and it only resulted in a minor delay (hopefully).

Edited November 11, 2012 by 4evermaat

[ubonjoe]

The ACS normally does a good job of things. At least you got to mail the form in.

The other side of the building for visas is another story altogether.

Edited November 13, 2012 by ubonjoe

[VocalNeal]

Just curious is the child ever going to reside in the US if not why saddle him with having to pay taxes for life regardless of where he lives. i'm sure he'll thank you later for that.

[4evermaat]

Just curious is the child ever going to reside in the US if not why saddle him with having to pay taxes for life regardless of where he lives. i'm sure he'll thank you later for that.

He has nothing to worry about as long as he remains a non-taxpayer. I cannot speak for those in a taxpayer status. Additionally, I did not issue a social security number, despite the insistence of the ACS rep. But if he later wants to volunteer for that; entirely his choice.

On the other hand, if I were to die tomorrow or something happened to me, it would have been nearly impossible for the mother or him to prove US citizenship or become an American national through descent at a later point. I have given him the opportunity to go; but it is up to him to explore the possibilities.

[VocalNeal]

OK maybe it is simply he can choose when 18?

[IMA_FARANG]

A polite answer to the question of why would a child want to be registered as a child of U.S. citizen while he was living here with his U.S. father and Thai mother.

If the U.S. father died before the child reached 18 the Thai wife could be eligible for Social Security Support benefits for the child.

If she was, the child"s Social Security card would be of great help to her in getting those benefits,

And the fact that the U.S. father had the child registered here in the U.S. embessy would be the clincher.

And if the farher simply FILED (not necessarily paid tax, but simply filed a tax return) even if he was actually exempt from paying U.S. taxes legally and claimed the child AND his Thai wife as dependents on that tax return could entitle her to benefits for the child until the child reached 18.

But some people just never think of those things.

[4evermaat]

The ACS normally does a good job of things. At least you got to mail the form in.

The other side of the building for visas is another story altogether.

Yep. They received the letter on sunday, which I thought was very odd as I sent it saturday. But then I was informed that all mail is routed to a mail processing center for security reasons, which makes sense. So allow 1-2 business days for the staff member to actually receive anything mailed. The processor got it in his hands Tuesday and processed it either that day or the next. Good idea to follow up via email 2-3 days after EMS shows delivered to make sure they received it.

OK maybe it is simply he can choose when 18?

For SSN, yes. I want him to make the choice to attach an SSN if/when he needs it. Although I know several people on some form of 'disability' and are doing quite well for themselves, I'm not big on gov't handouts and the strings that are attached to them. For citizenship, the qualification is through descent. So like I stated previously, the parent passing down the citizenship must do it in person to guarantee it will be done properly. If something were to happen to me and my son later attempted to document citizenship later, it would be extremely more difficult and he is much more likely to receive a run-around at the embassy.

I know a couple of older family members that did not get their citizenship papers done correctly for their children and, like ubonjoe and others have commented the visa process is much less friendly.

[ubonjoe]

Just getting the SSN will not automatically make the child a taxpayer. If he never works in the US there would be no history of him other than the original SSN application.

One problem of not having the SSN will be for the next passport application which will require it.

Edited November 16, 2012 by ubonjoe