Permanent Residency -- Whoa! I Got Tested In Spoken And Written Thai!

[CDB]

I am an Irish national aged 37, CEO of mid sized BOI sponsored company (~100 employees in Thailand).

I have been living here for over 12 years the last three of which have been with my girlfriend and 13 month old son. My name is on his birth cert., and his name is on my house registration. I earn enough to not have financial issues with immigration and I own a condo here that I live in.

So I am applying for the PR under the working category, since I am not married. 197 K but worth it, I suppose since I will eventually seek nationality.

Anyway the application is going smoothly enough and today I was back for another visit and interview ostensibly to hand in some more of the inevitable incomplete documentation.

One of the things they required was an extensive series of photos of me at home with my baby and girlfriend, pictures of the condo from inside and out, photos of me at my desk in the office, photos of me around the office, the office from the outside and so on. A bit nosy for all the family photos, don't you think since I am not applying under the section to support a Thai family...

But what shocked me was the following:

* I was grilled intensively in Thai for 25 minutes about my life, my job and relationship. I had to say where and how I met my gf and why I didn't register marriage with her. I was also asked about my previous jobs in Thailand and many other in-depth questions. My answers were transcribed and recorded on several pages of typed documentation. This Thai documentation was then printed out and I read it over and signed it.

* Next they turned on a video camera and I had to look into the camera and say a few sentences in Thai telling my age, nationality, workplace, salary, occupation, and so on.

* Finally they give me a written Thai test(!), multiple choice and mostly trivial. The questions included such idotic ones as "which is the following is a Thai food: A. macaroni, B. steak, C, Tom yum kung D. sushi" (but remember you do have to read and answer Thai). There were also some slightly harder ones such as "At which festival do they play a song entitled [something about a full moon]?" and "How many provinces are there in Thailand?" . Finally they had questions on my knowledge of the PR application process (which I had not studied too much since my secretary was in charge of that).

I'm sure I did okay on the test and I speak Thai clearly enough, but this process was a total shock to me. I expect something like this when applying for nationality, but for residence??

There's nothing mentioned about this on thaivisa.com and also I know of other people of the same nationality, income level, and status who don't speak a word of Thai but got their PR easily enough.

What's going on? Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a new process? I sure would have like to have been forewarned about this...

[samran]

The Thai language test is definetly part of the residency process and has been discussed quite a few times here.

By the sounds of it, your secretary, who as you state is in charge of the process, overlooked telling you that you would have to do this.

[Maestro]

I had to say where and how I met my gf and why I didn't register marriage with her.

That must have been a tough one to answer: an Irish bloke refusing to make an honest woman of the mother of his son

---------------

Maestro

[CDB]

I had to say where and how I met my gf and why I didn't register marriage with her.

That must have been a tough one to answer: an Irish bloke refusing to make an honest woman of the mother of his son

---------------

Maestro

My answer was that I wanted her to graduate first and that she was still quite young (23). And that I hadn't yet had the opportunity to meet her parents.

(of course that wasn't the real reason)

Sounds like I have my secretary to blame for not forewarning me. The HR department processes a lot of foreigners (we have 20+ working with us) so this is something she should have known.

[phuketsiam]

yes but knowing something and believing you need to know it too are very different things in LOS

[Rinrada]

So you got the food question right ..yea.

A. macaroni

...what?

[TBWG]

So you got the food question right ..yea.

A. macaroni

...what?

U sure

I put my money on D. sushi

TBWG

[camerata]

There's nothing mentioned about this on thaivisa.com and also I know of other people of the same nationality, income level, and status who don't speak a word of Thai but got their PR easily enough.

What's going on? Has anyone else experienced this? Is this a new process? I sure would have like to have been forewarned about this...

You can read my account of the interview at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=35331&st=0

[lopburi3]

Para 2 of the procedures from Immigration Web Site reads:

The applicants and those involved with the applications will get an appointment card to come for an interview with the immigration officers. The interview includes the test of the understanding of Thai language: speaking and listening (the applicants must come for the interview on the date of appointment; otherwise, without an appropriate reason, it will be automatically be assumed that they cancel the applications.)

[sriracha john]

Given that OP was given a written test, would it seem they need to also add "reading" to the speaking and listening to their guidelines?

[lopburi3]

It has been reported before if you can not read it they will do so for you.

[Bobcat]

There's nothing mentioned about this on thaivisa.com

It's all here if you take the time to look. I gave a detailed account, including the video and the multiple choice test. This is nothing unusual, but it's a pity you didn't know beforehand.

[sriracha john]

It has been reported before if you can not read it they will do so for you.

ok.. sorry, must have missed it... and think it's nice of them to do so....

[Bobcat]

Sounds like I have my secretary to blame for not forewarning me. The HR department processes a lot of foreigners (we have 20+ working with us) so this is something she should have known

It is your PR, so you should have been on top of the process. In my experience, important matters like this should not be left to others to handle.

[sabaijai]

There's nothing mentioned about this on thaivisa.com

It's all here if you take the time to look. I gave a detailed account, including the video and the multiple choice test. This is nothing unusual, but it's a pity you didn't know beforehand.

Bobcat, did you have to supply all the home/family photos he describes? That's the first I've heard of this requirement.

[camerata]

I was asked to supply photos of the inside and outside of my home, office and office building. Nobody specifically requested that I be in the photos, although I made sure the nameplate on my office door was visible in one photo. I guess there should be some proof that it really is your home and office in the photos.

[Bobcat]

Bobcat, did you have to supply all the home/family photos he describes? That's the first I've heard of this requirement.

Yes I did, Sabaijai. I supplied photos of my apartment (inside and front of the building), a photo of my workplace showing the company logo at the reception area and a photo of me and my secretary in my office at work. I did not show any photos of my partner of 9 years or his family as I was not sure this would go down too well.

Edited February 8, 2006 by Bobcat

[EdtheTruth]

I've been lurking in this forum for quite a while, but self-interest has brought me out into the open. You guys have been posting really helpful information, but I have a few more questions.

I submitted my PR application this last December based on the fact that I have been working for a Thai company for 5 years. I got engaged to my Thai girlfriend in October, and we have a wedding planned in the States for September of 2006. While preparing the paperwork (and reading this forum), I noticed the different fees (roughly 200,000 baht if your single, roughly 100,000 if your married). Solely to save money on the fees in case I get accepted, my girlfriend and I went out to Bang Rak and got legally married 2 days before I submitted the application.

Now here's the twist. When submitting all the documentation, the immigration officer said, "I won't accept your marriage license because you've been married less than 2 years and you have no children." She absolutely would not take copies of any of the marriage information. However, the application form itself asks if your married and asks for basic info on your spouse (which I filled in). At the time, I assumed she was trying to tell me that I would have to pay the higher fee if I was accepted (although she never said that directly). Later, it dawned on me she could have just been letting me know that I couldn't use my marriage as a basis for the PR app. This should have been completely obvious though since on the app you must clearly state your basis for applying.

So now I am in a state of complete confusion. Any guesses? Am I gonna get stuck with the 200,000 baht fee even though I am legally married? I haven't re-contacted the office yet. My interview is in two weeks. Advice?

Thanks in advance. Again, this forum has been really helpful.

-Ed

[camerata]

Did you apply in the "marriage" or "work" category? This is just a guess, but maybe they won't accept applicants in the "marriage" category if they haven't been married two years and have no children. Perhaps they've switched you to the "work" category. However, I would think you'd still be entitled to the married applicant's lower fee.

I wonder if Immigration actually prefers us single guys because they get double the fee?

[samran]

Given that OP was given a written test, would it seem they need to also add "reading" to the speaking and listening to their guidelines?

Depends if a multiple choice 'tick the box' falls into your definition of 'reading' or 'writing'. Sounds like he was given a multiple choice reading test only (unless he then given an essay question on the PR process - which I think may have happened verbally).

[Bobcat]

Am I gonna get stuck with the 200,000 baht fee even though I am legally married? I haven't re-contacted the office yet. My interview is in two weeks. Advice?

Good question. My understanding is that irrespective of the category under which your application was made, you will be entitled to the reduced fee becuase you are married to a Thai national. I cannot recall, however, if the fee reduction provisions stipulate a length of time that you need to be married before the discount would apply.

Depends if a multiple choice 'tick the box' falls into your definition of 'reading' or 'writing'. Sounds like he was given a multiple choice reading test only (unless he then given an essay question on the PR process - which I think may have happened verbally).

When I did my multiple choise test, I was told by the officer would read the questions to me if I could not read Thai.

[rainman]

i hope you didn't answer macaroni. i did hear the same things from a friend of mine who applied for residency a few years ago, he actually had to show proof of the financial status of even his family members that were not living in thailand, such as his parents and siblings.

[EdtheTruth]

My understanding is that irrespective of the category under which your application was made, you will be entitled to the reduced fee becuase you are married to a Thai national. I cannot recall, however, if the fee reduction provisions stipulate a length of time that you need to be married before the discount would apply.

The provisions that are posted on the wall outside the immigration office do not stipulate that you must be married for any length of time. The weird thing is that my application clearly stated from the beginning that I was applying in the 'work' category. Maybe I'm being paranoid, but I feel like I'm gonna get screwed on the fee, irrespective of what the law says. I'm leaning towards NOT bringing this up at my interview, because I don't want to queer their decision of whether or not to accept me. I'll just have to wait and see.

Speaking of the interview, I was going over the old posts and noticed several different types of questions were mentioned. I found at least three categories: your personal life/family, your job/career, and Thailand itself. Is this list complete? Do I need to prepare for any other areas?

Last, I understand that the written exam is limited to ten questions, but what about the oral part? Is it an open-ended interview where they just keep asking you questions? Or is it also a set number? Also, is the videotaped part just a presentation on your own, or do you have to answer questions while being taped?

Thanks a bunch once again.

-Ed

[george]

All is beeing taped.

[CDB]

Some answers, questions, and comments:

* The questioning in Thai seemed to be open-ended and unlimited, but I suppose they started out in the initial cateogies as mentioned above, then maybe she wandered off topic a bit. Responses were transcribed, but incompletely. At first I didn't even realize it was a formal part of the process. She fiddled with the camera a few times so it looked like the questioning was being recorded but the device didn't look like it could take lots of long digital videos....

* I applied under the "supporting a Thai dependent" regulation. Immigration officers told me clearly that supporting my child who lives with me would be sufficient for the cheaper version, and I didn't have to be married. The official who later interviewed me said I had to be married. When I suggested I might marry my girlfriend, she said that unless I was married for two years it wouldn't count.

* During the written test, she read the questions but not the choices. However I had already told her that I read Thai and she could see that was so.

* I was specifically told to take photos of myself with my gf and baby at home on the sofa! That despite the fact that I ended up applying under the working category not the Thai dependant category.

* three or four questions on the written test were questions about the PR process. I was asked what the fee was, and what the procedure was if I wanted to leave the country once I had the book ( I got that one wrong!). Before the test the immigration officer went over all the rules and procedures but I wasn't really listening to her at all since I had no idea I was about to be tested.

* Several friends got PR without speaking a word of Thai. Either the rules have changed (always likely) or they didn't need the "points" gained by passing the Thai test because they worked for multinationals.

* As to whether I should have been on top of the procedures, I will note that I interviewed two PR holders in depth and neither was tested in Thai in any way. Then I asked my secretary to follow up and check. Finally I went to Thaivisa.com and clicked on "residency" -- nothing about a Thai test there, is there? Not to worry since I speak Thai well and got nine of ten questions right.

Edited February 8, 2006 by CDB

[Bobcat]

CDB, it sounds like you'll do just fine.

[sabaijai]

Camerata and Bobcat, thanks for the photo details. I'll be applying under the work category as well. My workplace is nothing more than a spare BR in my condo with a desk and walls lined with bookshelves. No nameplates or logos (freelance journo), so perhaps the thing to do is pose for a photo in front of the computer?

This is a little off topic, but while we have the experts assembled here, I'd like to ask another PR-related question. Did you (meaning Bobcat, Camerata, CDB) submit supporting docs in the form of letters of reference from well-placed Thai acquaintances/colleagues? I don't mean politicos necessarily, but people such as university chancellors, company directors and the like. It seems like a natural thing to do, if it's effective.

I've been putting this off for years, was planning to apply last year and the year before that, etc, always getting too busy to do the paperwork. Probably best to get it over with - the fees are not going to go anywhere but up.

[camerata]

Camerata and Bobcat, thanks for the photo details. I'll be applying under the work category as well. My workplace is nothing more than a spare BR in my condo with a desk and walls lined with bookshelves. No nameplates or logos (freelance journo), so perhaps the thing to do is pose for a photo in front of the computer?

I would say so, since they seem to want proof that the office/home really is yours. I suppose a major reason for the photos is that they want to see how "prestigious" your situation is, but that wouldn't really apply to a freelance journo.

This is a little off topic, but while we have the experts assembled here, I'd like to ask another PR-related question. Did you (meaning Bobcat, Camerata, CDB) submit supporting docs in the form of letters of reference from well-placed Thai acquaintances/colleagues? I don't mean politicos necessarily, but people such as university chancellors, company directors and the like. It seems like a natural thing to do, if it's effective.

Yes. This is one way to put together the "portfolio" they ask for. The legal firm helping me with my application told me it's all about prestige and convincing Immigration of what a worthy citizen you are. So the documents you provide don't necessarily have to be related to your "contribution to Thai society."

As well as the references, I provided newspaper articles I had written, clippings of interviews and press events, and membership of chambers of commerce, etc. Basically, just include anything that makes you look like you are a bit above average and contribute to society in general.

In addition, I included a letter to Immigration stating what I thought my contribution has been to Thai society and linking it where possible with my references. In this letter I mentioned my participation in public events and other things for which I have no documents or photos. When I solicited my references, I gave each referee a brief template letter that tied in with my contribution to society. The ones who were busy used my template pretty much the way it was, while others added stuff to it and rewrote it in their own style.

If you have written about Thai culture or Buddhism, I think that would be a good theme for your social contribution.

I've been putting this off for years, was planning to apply last year and the year before that, etc, always getting too busy to do the paperwork. Probably best to get it over with - the fees are not going to go anywhere but up.

Incidentally, I didn't mention anything about a girlfriend and they didn't ask. After I said I was single, that was the end of it.

[sabaijai]

I would say so, since they seem to want proof that the office/home really is yours. I suppose a major reason for the photos is that they want to see how "prestigious" your situation is, but that wouldn't really apply to a freelance journo.

Perhaps I should have the work photo taken sitting inside the media agency that sponsors my visa. I almost never actually go there, but I just thought of it since they do have a nice-looking placard out front, and it's a fairly impressive, stand-alone two-storey building. (Side benefit of that idea - I won't have to clean my office.) And then take a separate batch of photos in my condo. I have plenty of books and magazine/newspaper clippings to show, virtually all of them Thailand- or SE Asia-related.

Thanks for the idea of a letter template, that should ease the imposition on my Thai friends and acquaintances.

[Bobcat]

Did you (meaning Bobcat, Camerata, CDB) submit supporting docs in the form of letters of reference from well-placed Thai acquaintances/colleagues? I don't mean politicos necessarily, but people such as university chancellors, company directors and the like. It seems like a natural thing to do, if it's effective.

I did not submit any such documents. I tried to submit documents showing my contribution to society, but looking at the amount of tax I have paid, they said those documents were not needed.