Atm - No Not The Atm As A Foreigner Giving Cash Away.

[hellodolly]

A 5 baht raise in the price of a 250 baht bill would be 2% hardly noticeable to a bill of that size.

It would not take many baht on each item to raise it 2%. Make it a 3% raise to pay for the new menus.

[mesquite]

Other than this thread, I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to Duke's. They take credit cards!" Nope, it's good, tasty food that draws people in.

[pgthompson]

Other than this thread, I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to Duke's. They take credit cards!" Nope, it's good, tasty food that draws people in.

Other than this thread, I've never heard anyone say, "Let's go to Duke's. They take credit cards!" Nope, it's good, tasty food that draws people in.

And it's the convenience of being able to pay by debit/credit card. I don't go to the petrol station, Tesco's etc thinking, wow I'll go there because they take cards, I expect them to take cards and then I pay 1 bill per month.

It makes no sense whatsoever to not take cards, people can buy what they want without wondering if they have enough money on them, in fact, they spend more than they would normally do because they are not counting the pennies.

[theDukes]

A lot of great input. Thanks. It was just a thought because of the huge amount of money that it costs us every month. In the US there are a lot of guys that will put an ATM in your shop.

[theblether]

OP

You will create an open wound in your business if you do this.

I own two retail companies and I know exactly how you feel, I detest the charges, but I detest the loss of trade even more.

From bitter experience, don't do this.

[theblether]

In defence of the OP, these amounts look small, but at the end of the month when the bill lands it can easily work out at

10 transactions x 20 baht x 30 days - 6000 baht.

Not so small now eh? I bet there are months the fees are astronomical

I remember one month when I was starting out my fees were 44,000 baht equivalent.......painful.

Edited November 4, 2012 by theblether

[trainman34014]

In defence of the OP, these amounts look small, but at the end of the month when the bill lands it can easily work out at

10 transactions x 20 baht x 30 days - 6000 baht.

Not so small now eh? I bet there are months the fees are astronomical

I remember one month when I was starting out my fees were 44,000 baht equivalent.......painful.

Bleth; as a company owner you should know, or I hope you have learned, how to get around these things. In theory the 44,000 Baht should have already been paid in by customers, so the pain shouldn't be that bad. If this was not the case at the time then I guess you were still on the learning curve.

[theblether]

In defence of the OP, these amounts look small, but at the end of the month when the bill lands it can easily work out at

10 transactions x 20 baht x 30 days - 6000 baht.

Not so small now eh? I bet there are months the fees are astronomical

I remember one month when I was starting out my fees were 44,000 baht equivalent.......painful.

Bleth; as a company owner you should know, or I hope you have learned, how to get around these things. In theory the 44,000 Baht should have already been paid in by customers, so the pain shouldn't be that bad. If this was not the case at the time then I guess you were still on the learning curve.

It was the first time I'd had a credit card machine installed, so when the first bill hit it was a bit of a shock. It doesn't matter how you spin the wheel, the bottom line is all these relatively small transaction fees can add up to a fearsome bill. At one time it cost me £27.00 per thousand on fees, ( until I built up enough turnover and credibility with the bank ) and I remember on one occasion a customer wanted to pay me £10,200 by card, that worked out at a transaction fee of £275. That's serious money, so knowing that the job wasn't going ahead for a couple of weeks I requested a cheque, the fee was £0.40 to my recollection.

I'm in a different trade from the OP, I have time on my side, the OP does not, he needs payment immediately. These are one of a myriad of problems that business owners face, and many don't realize the impact of these small fees. They can be painful.

[hml367]

If the merchant fees are a percentage of the transaction, and the transaction presumably has a percentage for profit, wouldn't higher fees mean higher gross profit?

MSPain

[OriginalPoster]

I'm looking for someone to install an ATM machine in my 3 restaurants here in Chiang Mai. I want to get rid of credit cards and credit card fees. At The Duke's and The River Market Restaurant we have never passed the fees on to customers as is common here.

Correction: It's NOT common for restaurants.

It's common in a couple very competitive areas, either as a 2-3% extra charge for credit card use, or, more common these days, the willingness to discount by that amount when paying in cash. (And sometimes an even bigger discount, as it allows the shop to manage the books a bit more creatively.)

BTW I would expect a fancy-ish restaurant to allow paying by credit card, especially one in a tourist area. And it would very much be a reason not to visit a particular place if it had to be cash. (Speaking for myself only) An ATM is really not a substitute, ATMs are all over Chiang Mai anyway. The point is that it's not cash out of one's pocket right away but only due a month or so later, allowing the spreading of expenses over a longer period.

I'd much rather you just add 2% on top of the 7% VAT that somehow doesn't make it in the individual prices in the menu.

Or better yet, if you want for example 235 baht for a dish including VAT and potential credit card use, just put a 2 a 3 and a 5 in the menu. It's not that hard. No wait, it's easier.

Agreed.

Hi Dave, Please DO NOT discontinue taking credit cards. I am a frequent customer at your restaurant and often pay by credit card; American Express or other. Not always but I like having the option. Sometimes things are tight and I need to pay by credit card and pay in 30 days. I'm sure many people feel the same as me and Winnie. I think for upscale places like yours, you have to accept credit cards or it could hurt business. I know when I am visiting other countries I prefer to go out to restaurants that accept credit cards rather than carry much cash around in an unknown country/city or visit an ATM at night.

Agree with that. But Credit Cards have other utility other than just be be able to keep spending when you're short on cash too. Another advantage of using a CC is that it makes record keeping easier, especially if your CC issuer lets you automatically download your transactions into Quicken or other financial software..

[OriginalPoster]

Foreign credit cards generally have bad exchange rates and extra fees. I disagree that visitors to CM want to use credit cards instead of cash.

Mine doesn't, no fees and I get the same exchange rate as from an ATM machine except that there is no 150 baht fee. I use it whenever possible when traveling & here in CM on account of that.

[wimpy]

Foreign credit cards generally have bad exchange rates and extra fees. I disagree that visitors to CM want to use credit cards instead of cash.

Mine doesn't, no fees and I get the same exchange rate as from an ATM machine except that there is no 150 baht fee. I use it whenever possible when traveling & here in CM on account of that.

Same here, plus I collect points to redeem for travel. Everything possible goes on the card. All other things being equal, I will choose the establishment that takes cards without a surcharge.

Sent from my HTC Desire HD using Thaivisa Connect App

[TheVicar]

What a great idea; I too have the visa credit machine and dont pass the charge on to the customer; its surprising how 20bt or so is charged per 1000bt, plus when you get the phone bill there is another charge for each and evey transaction via the phone line.

I always thought it a bit petty and wondered why many business charge 2% surcharge for credit cards....I make a minumum charge now of 1000bt to use credit card, otherwise cash only.

Agree with these sentiments and with those noble ones by the Dukes owner. I cannot understand how some people here need a credit card to pay for a meal because you need the 30 days grace period; if you are on such a tight budget, what are you doing here? And why encourage the piratical actions of the banks by using these cards with their high fees anyway? It just helps to create inflation for everybody and rewards the anti-social actions of the banksters.

Perhaps a business owner could help out: are these same charges put on the bill for debit cards? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for people addicted to plastic.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[TheVicar]

Foreign credit cards generally have bad exchange rates and extra fees. I disagree that visitors to CM want to use credit cards instead of cash.

Mine doesn't, no fees and I get the same exchange rate as from an ATM machine except that there is no 150 baht fee. I use it whenever possible when traveling & here in CM on account of that.

You're lucky. Most do charge hefty fees. Better to use cash or a debit card.

Another 2 bad feature(s) of the credit cards: 1) identity theft; and 2) charges for non-existing bills. I once (in Germany of all places) went to a fancy, upscale Italian restaurant only to find a month later that some unscrupulous person at the restaurant swiped my card twice (and not for the same meal either meaning it was an intentional, criminal act). I was billed for eating at the same time and at the same place for other diners. I think that happens frequently (not that it would at the fine restaurants run here by the OP); once you give a merchant your plastic for any reason and do not follow its path, you are subject to being defrauded by the unscrupulous. It took me months to unravel the problem (and lots of time and effort). Interestingly enough, the legal authorities in Germany could have cared less.

Using cash is simpler and better all around. Unless you're hosting a large party or group of people, the bills should not be so large that you cannot easily pay them through the cash one normally carries around with you.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[elektrified]

What a great idea; I too have the visa credit machine and dont pass the charge on to the customer; its surprising how 20bt or so is charged per 1000bt, plus when you get the phone bill there is another charge for each and evey transaction via the phone line.

I always thought it a bit petty and wondered why many business charge 2% surcharge for credit cards....I make a minumum charge now of 1000bt to use credit card, otherwise cash only.

Agree with these sentiments and with those noble ones by the Dukes owner. I cannot understand how some people here need a credit card to pay for a meal because you need the 30 days grace period; if you are on such a tight budget, what are you doing here? And why encourage the piratical actions of the banks by using these cards with their high fees anyway? It just helps to create inflation for everybody and rewards the anti-social actions of the banksters.

Perhaps a business owner could help out: are these same charges put on the bill for debit cards? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for people addicted to plastic.

Thanks Dad for the scolding. I don't need to be told how to manage my finances. I can afford a meal but am often awaiting over-seas transfers, payments from clients, etc. and prefer to keep the cash on hand and pay the bill in 30 days. I also like having itemized monthly statements. Besides American Express requires payment in full in 30 days. I'd rather pay my bills all at once, thank you.

How do credit cards create inflation?

[OriginalPoster]

Foreign credit cards generally have bad exchange rates and extra fees. I disagree that visitors to CM want to use credit cards instead of cash.

Mine doesn't, no fees and I get the same exchange rate as from an ATM machine except that there is no 150 baht fee. I use it whenever possible when traveling & here in CM on account of that.

You're lucky. Most do charge hefty fees. Better to use cash or a debit card.

Another 2 bad feature(s) of the credit cards: 1) identity theft; and 2) charges for non-existing bills. I once (in Germany of all places) went to a fancy, upscale Italian restaurant only to find a month later that some unscrupulous person at the restaurant swiped my card twice (and not for the same meal either meaning it was an intentional, criminal act). I was billed for eating at the same time and at the same place for other diners. I think that happens frequently (not that it would at the fine restaurants run here by the OP); once you give a merchant your plastic for any reason and do not follow its path, you are subject to being defrauded by the unscrupulous. It took me months to unravel the problem (and lots of time and effort). Interestingly enough, the legal authorities in Germany could have cared less.

Using cash is simpler and better all around. Unless you're hosting a large party or group of people, the bills should not be so large that you cannot easily pay them through the cash one normally carries around with you.

I've had fraudulent charges show up on my card before but each time they were reversed upon me calling the credit card issuer. With cards issued in the US at least, the rights of credit card holders are quite well protected.

Also, it's bogus to paint credit cards users as people who are simply too strapped to pay by cash. Some people just are not comfortable carrying around a big wad of cash all the time. I pay off my CC bill each month so as to incur no finance charges; my reason for using it is not a lack a funds. But hey, if people like Duke's don't want my business, they are free to look down upon credit card users.

Edited November 5, 2012 by OriginalPoster

[OriginalPoster]

What a great idea; I too have the visa credit machine and dont pass the charge on to the customer; its surprising how 20bt or so is charged per 1000bt, plus when you get the phone bill there is another charge for each and evey transaction via the phone line.

I always thought it a bit petty and wondered why many business charge 2% surcharge for credit cards....I make a minumum charge now of 1000bt to use credit card, otherwise cash only.

Agree with these sentiments and with those noble ones by the Dukes owner. I cannot understand how some people here need a credit card to pay for a meal because you need the 30 days grace period; if you are on such a tight budget, what are you doing here? And why encourage the piratical actions of the banks by using these cards with their high fees anyway? It just helps to create inflation for everybody and rewards the anti-social actions of the banksters.

Perhaps a business owner could help out: are these same charges put on the bill for debit cards? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for people addicted to plastic.

Thanks Dad for the scolding. I don't need to be told how to manage my finances. I can afford a meal but am often awaiting over-seas transfers, payments from clients, etc. and prefer to keep the cash on hand and pay the bill in 30 days. I also like having itemized monthly statements. Besides American Express requires payment in full in 30 days. I'd rather pay my bills all at once, thank you.

How do credit cards create inflation?

I'm going to guess that if falls into the same category as tipping -- an elitist, arrogant, American habit that is spoiling Thailand for everyone.

[Beetlejuice]

What a great idea; I too have the visa credit machine and dont pass the charge on to the customer; its surprising how 20bt or so is charged per 1000bt, plus when you get the phone bill there is another charge for each and evey transaction via the phone line.

I always thought it a bit petty and wondered why many business charge 2% surcharge for credit cards....I make a minumum charge now of 1000bt to use credit card, otherwise cash only.

Agree with these sentiments and with those noble ones by the Dukes owner. I cannot understand how some people here need a credit card to pay for a meal because you need the 30 days grace period; if you are on such a tight budget, what are you doing here? And why encourage the piratical actions of the banks by using these cards with their high fees anyway? It just helps to create inflation for everybody and rewards the anti-social actions of the banksters.

Perhaps a business owner could help out: are these same charges put on the bill for debit cards? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for people addicted to plastic.

Sorry, but you and the Dukes are not grasping the situation into the correct perspectives here.

I live in Chiang Mai, don`t have online banking accounts in Thailand, don`t have any credit or ATM cards, don`t need them, don`t want them. But I live in Thailand and how we conduct our business here cannot be equated to the attitudes of how businesses and how people run their lifestyles in the West and in some other Asian countries.

The Dukes I assume has a high percentage of Western and non-Thai visitor/tourist clientele. In the West is where the use of technology has become an addition, a way of life. For example, mobile phones are now surgically attached to their ears and voice boxes, they are logged in to facebook at all times where they are addicted and feel committed to reporting in they’re activities every 10 minutes and could not comprehend paying a bill by any methods other than online or by plastic card. And these are the idiots that have to be appeased if the business falls into the upper end category of catering to tourists and visitors to Thailand.

It`s all rather a catch 22 situation. If the reason for considering the discontinuation of credit card payment facilities is because Chiang Mai`s tourist industry is down? Than the Dukes and other similar type restaurants either has to endure the losses and work on lower profits, that is if the businesses can sustain the loss of revenue? Or reduce the status of these restaurants to cater more for Thai and cash strapped ex-pats on tight budgets, or move the business to another more lucrative location such as Bangkok or Pattaya or close down. That’s the reality as there are no in-between solutions, because there is no ways of beating the banks or being able to cut expenditure without any major alterations to the format of the business.

[TheVicar]

Are you confusing "Credit" cards with "Debit" cards, which are usually just a payment card that deducts straight from your bank account.

And are the charges the same? I have a Siam Commercial Debit card, if I use it in your restaurant, what % would you lose compared to be using an overseas Credit or Debit card?

I think we should be told.

I also wonder about debit cards. Do they also charge a fee? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for the Dukes. Maybe a business owner/banking sector person can enlighten us. Even farangs can pretty easily get a debit card from a Thai bank. End of problem if they don't charge a fee.

I also like the idea posted by someone earlier: charge 2% extra for credit card use and/or perhaps gave a discount for cash payment.

I'm still amused by the poster who needs to pay by credit card to make his finances work each month. You are the prodigal son and also a poster boy for all that is wrong in the West! I'm sure the banksters love you.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[ALFREDO]

Actually, there is no longer a charge for using a Thai ATM card from one bank in another banks ATM machine. This has been eliminated - as long as you are not from another province.

Did not realize that, have to check.

But I mostly be, in another province.

Edited November 5, 2012 by ALFREDO

[elektrified]

Are you confusing "Credit" cards with "Debit" cards, which are usually just a payment card that deducts straight from your bank account.

And are the charges the same? I have a Siam Commercial Debit card, if I use it in your restaurant, what % would you lose compared to be using an overseas Credit or Debit card?

I think we should be told.

I also wonder about debit cards. Do they also charge a fee? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for the Dukes. Maybe a business owner/banking sector person can enlighten us. Even farangs can pretty easily get a debit card from a Thai bank. End of problem if they don't charge a fee.

I also like the idea posted by someone earlier: charge 2% extra for credit card use and/or perhaps gave a discount for cash payment.

I'm still amused by the poster who needs to pay by credit card to make his finances work each month. You are the prodigal son and also a poster boy for all that is wrong in the West! I'm sure the banksters love you.

In case you haven't noticed there are a number of people who have posted in this thread who prefer to live their lives the way they wish, credit card or whatever. It's really none of your business.

[hellodolly]

Are you confusing "Credit" cards with "Debit" cards, which are usually just a payment card that deducts straight from your bank account.

And are the charges the same? I have a Siam Commercial Debit card, if I use it in your restaurant, what % would you lose compared to be using an overseas Credit or Debit card?

I think we should be told.

I also wonder about debit cards. Do they also charge a fee? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for the Dukes. Maybe a business owner/banking sector person can enlighten us. Even farangs can pretty easily get a debit card from a Thai bank. End of problem if they don't charge a fee.

I also like the idea posted by someone earlier: charge 2% extra for credit card use and/or perhaps gave a discount for cash payment.

I'm still amused by the poster who needs to pay by credit card to make his finances work each month. You are the prodigal son and also a poster boy for all that is wrong in the West! I'm sure the banksters love you.

Well we have over 50 posts and not a one of them has come forward with what a business has to pay if they take a debit card.

Not talking about what they pay their bank just what does the owner of the business pay for a Thai debit card.

A credit card can be convenient for people who don't like to carry cash. But in case of a robbery it could be a bigger loss of money.

On the other hand I am not sure you are always going to get the best exchange rate which is really minamel for a restaurant bill. But on the other end you will get charged a service fee for the transaction at your end of the credit card

I use my credit card once a month to transfer in enough money for the month and pay a 150 baht service fee for the whole month. I then pocket some money and have the rest in the Bank of Siam where I have a debit card.

[mcgriffith]

hellodolly,

I think the merchant fee for a Visa Thai bank debit card, is the same as for a Visa credit card, Thai or not.

I almost always use a Bangkok Bank Visa debit/ATM card with certain merchants here in CM.

At Tops, they never say a thing, no matter how small the purchase amount.

However, at my local liquor wholesaler (Luxsana on Huay Kaew Rd.) they told me they won't accept the above card for purchases of less than 500 B.

Yeah, I know the Visa "rules" say merchants aren't supposed to do this. In the US, UK and EU no doubt that is the case. But here is a different story.

I am making an assumption that any Visa card transaction here, whether it is a debit card, or a credit card, has the same fees that the merchant pays.

Perhaps some banking maven can clarify this issue for us?

[hellodolly]

hellodolly,

I think the merchant fee for a Visa Thai bank debit card, is the same as for a Visa credit card, Thai or not.

I almost always use a Bangkok Bank Visa debit/ATM card with certain merchants here in CM.

At Tops, they never say a thing, no matter how small the purchase amount.

However, at my local liquor wholesaler (Luxsana on Huay Kaew Rd.) they told me they won't accept the above card for purchases of less than 500 B.

Yeah, I know the Visa "rules" say merchants aren't supposed to do this. In the US, UK and EU no doubt that is the case. But here is a different story.

I am making an assumption that any Visa card transaction here, whether it is a debit card, or a credit card, has the same fees that the merchant pays.

Perhaps some banking maven can clarify this issue for us?

Ya that was what I was hoping. Seems like no body wants to break down the different costs and who they are to yur own account with a debit card for a bank in Thailand or how much the cost is to you when you use your credit card (foreign one) I know I pay a 150 baht on it myself at my banks end but I don't know what percent they are charging me. I know a long time ago when I had my own business in Washington the banks charged me a 3% for handling it.That was no matter what the dollar value was I had to pay it to.

[TheVicar]

hellodolly,

I think the merchant fee for a Visa Thai bank debit card, is the same as for a Visa credit card, Thai or not.

I almost always use a Bangkok Bank Visa debit/ATM card with certain merchants here in CM.

At Tops, they never say a thing, no matter how small the purchase amount.

However, at my local liquor wholesaler (Luxsana on Huay Kaew Rd.) they told me they won't accept the above card for purchases of less than 500 B.

Yeah, I know the Visa "rules" say merchants aren't supposed to do this. In the US, UK and EU no doubt that is the case. But here is a different story.

I am making an assumption that any Visa card transaction here, whether it is a debit card, or a credit card, has the same fees that the merchant pays.

Perhaps some banking maven can clarify this issue for us?

Yes, clarification needed from merchants on the point of the debit card.

Certainly the banks in Thailand know that most merchants are passing on the charge of 2% to their customers; that's why using credit cards helps to create inflation. Maybe the solution is simple for Dukes: give people who pay cash a nice discount.

[TheVicar]

Are you confusing "Credit" cards with "Debit" cards, which are usually just a payment card that deducts straight from your bank account.

And are the charges the same? I have a Siam Commercial Debit card, if I use it in your restaurant, what % would you lose compared to be using an overseas Credit or Debit card?

I think we should be told.

I also wonder about debit cards. Do they also charge a fee? If not, that would seem to be the way to go for the Dukes. Maybe a business owner/banking sector person can enlighten us. Even farangs can pretty easily get a debit card from a Thai bank. End of problem if they don't charge a fee.

I also like the idea posted by someone earlier: charge 2% extra for credit card use and/or perhaps gave a discount for cash payment.

I'm still amused by the poster who needs to pay by credit card to make his finances work each month. You are the prodigal son and also a poster boy for all that is wrong in the West! I'm sure the banksters love you.

In case you haven't noticed there are a number of people who have posted in this thread who prefer to live their lives the way they wish, credit card or whatever. It's really none of your business.

Weren't you the guy who brought up your problems on a public forum?

And your kind of "buying" is bad for everyone because it creates inflation for everyone else. Most merchants pass on the 2% charge or raise their prices to make up for the credit card fees. That means people who pay in cash pay for your bad habits.

People who are unable to manage their own finances do create problems for others. If you're so living on the edge that you need a credit card to delay payments for 30 days, what happens when a crisis hits you or your family? There's a whole thread devoted to just that issue on this website. Individuals who are unable to manage their finances and live off credit cards have a lot to do with the worldwide financial and economic crisis that the world has been struggling with for the last 5 years. It's called "living over your head." Most financial planners advise people who are on the edge to give up on their credit cards and live a simpler life.

Edited November 5, 2012 by TheVicar

[WinnieTheKhwai]

hellodolly,

I think the merchant fee for a Visa Thai bank debit card, is the same as for a Visa credit card, Thai or not.

I almost always use a Bangkok Bank Visa debit/ATM card with certain merchants here in CM.

At Tops, they never say a thing, no matter how small the purchase amount.

However, at my local liquor wholesaler (Luxsana on Huay Kaew Rd.) they told me they won't accept the above card for purchases of less than 500 B.

Yeah, I know the Visa "rules" say merchants aren't supposed to do this. In the US, UK and EU no doubt that is the case. But here is a different story.

I am making an assumption that any Visa card transaction here, whether it is a debit card, or a credit card, has the same fees that the merchant pays.

Perhaps some banking maven can clarify this issue for us?

Yes, clarification needed from merchants on the point of the debit card.

Certainly the banks in Thailand know that most merchants are passing on the charge of 2% to their customers; that's why using credit cards helps to create inflation. Maybe the solution is simple for Dukes: give people who pay cash a nice discount.

Yes, like 10%

[bobl]

raise the prices, then 2% discount when paying in cash

I'm no longer in the business but that's precisely what I did. People don't realise what a collossal pita it is to accept cards, and why should I pay for your 30 days free credit?

Edited November 6, 2012 by bobl

[WinnieTheKhwai]

raise the prices, then 2% discount when paying in cash

I'm no longer in the business but that's precisely what I did. People don't realise what a collossal pita it is to accept cards, and why should I pay for your 30 days free credit?

Wild guess: because you want the 98% of my dinner spend?

Plus a tip that more than covers the remaining 2?

Edited November 6, 2012 by WinnieTheKhwai

[hellodolly]

Going strong 59 posts and no replies from business that accept Thai debit cards as to what the banks charge them.

I believe 7 11s take them so it can't be that much. Unless they are presented a once a month non broken down price. Imagine the size of the list if they had to break it down 19 baht a loaf of bread 14 baht a can of Pepsi Max (which is getting hard to find again)

Maybe it says something about the people who are on the forum non business owners.

mcgriffith said some would accept his and some would not. I remember a few years ago where Tops claimed to give a 5% discount to credit card user's. There was more to it but I did not and still don't read Thai. I talked to the OP about it and a he could give me was the bank costs per month.

One final point I pay my rent with my debit card and not a word about extra cost. If I use my Canadian or American credit card they say they want 3% more