Negativity About English Teachers In Thailand On Here?

[Trembly]

I'm blown away by the use of the English language here, but only by some who protest the loudest about others not being educated. That's not all of course, but there are some. I really choked on one rather long post back a page where the poster was pontificating about educational requirements.

For his information, there is no verb for "importantly" to modify so he should have used "more important." Additionally, that is a long, run-on and incomplete sentence brother. The last long phrase lacks a verb; even an implied one.

I have no degree in anything, but I'd be happy to proof-read your writing for you because you need the help. I could also teach English very well if I were so inclined.

I don't think anyone can really know how difficult teaching English is in Thailand unless you have tried it. It is not Kansas.

They are not the nice little Asian kids that went to school with my children in the West. They are screaming, hateful, violent maniacs with head lice and that is only the kindergarten students.

I understand your point, but I was referring to a God-like belief in higher education in English itself as the answer to being able to teach. I am especially noting some who yell the loudest about their education and the inability of those without the same to teach. Yet they can't use the language correctly themselves!

Thai classroom management is another story and is perhaps only something learned "in the dirt" in a Thai classroom. I doubt that there are any classes for that in Boston.

For someone who speaks the English language, already has a personal love for it and is predisposed to teach I think that a CELTA or DELTA are quite sufficient.

God knows that there are thousands of crusty old English teachers in UK state schools who have found their way there via non-Ed, non-English Language degrees and supplementary English Language teaching qualifications.

They're phasing DELTAs out in favour of PGCEs, but it should be noted that in order to commence DELTA training 3 years solid experience with a CELTA (or similar) is required, whereas you can commence a PGCE with no previous teaching experience.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Trembly

[GarryP]

Contempt, disdain, feeling superior to someone no matter the trigger, even the lack of natural fibres in their shirting, is IMO an outward sign of insecurity and fear.

I find it much more productive for my own serenity to be accepting of all the wide variety of human frailty we all share together; accept and try to ignore those showing arrogance and intolerance, try not to show how much I pity their lack of peace.

I really dislike socks made from manmade fibre. I pretty much only buy socks at Marks &.Spencer now. I'll probably stock up when I'm back I'm the Old Country later I'm the month

SC

There's a shop that only sells cotton stuff called Green Cotton on the second floor of Ploenchit Center. I got some nice cotton socks there to wear to work. 100 baht a pair and smell much fresher than synthetic fibre after a day at school.

Wow, according to many of the posters, that must be a luxury for a teacher. How long did it take you to save enough?

[barefoot1988]

"Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English."

what??? so im completely new to thai language, how do you expect me to understand grammar and verbs when the explanation is in thai?

[David48]

I really dislike socks made from manmade fibre. I pretty much only buy socks at Marks &.Spencer now. I'll probably stock up when I'm back I'm the Old Country later I'm the month

SC

There's a shop that only sells cotton stuff called Green Cotton on the second floor of Ploenchit Center. I got some nice cotton socks there to wear to work. 100 baht a pair and smell much fresher than synthetic fibre after a day at school.

Somehow I doubt that it will be socks uppermost in SC's mind when he returns for a visit to the Old Country ...

.

[chiangmaikelly]

Let me ask you this... Now everywhere in Thailand if the student have been taught English in a governmental school even though this could occur with students from private ones as well... They cannot pronounce H or X.... Now why is that?

Yes they can!! Yes they can!!! The thai versions, though -

H - 'Hayth'

X - 'Ek'

S - 'Et'

They can do the 'R', 'V' and 'Z', too!

R - 'Aah'

V - 'Wee'

Z - 'See'

As far as the pronouncing, I think it's a bit difficult to get them started after they've had a few years. There's a small boy around 4 whose parents I meet with frequently. Their parents speak English with the Thai accent, though even with his being born Thai, can enunciate properly, and effortlessly. Mind like a sponge - not a screaming, hateful, violent maniac with headlice (lol ChiangMaiKelly, I see you lol)

I am OK with anything above P 4. Below scares the heck out of me. They are like a pack of wild dogs. 40, 5 year olds running screaming at you with arms outstretched yelling ooooommm (means hug). Same as dogs if you get on their level or lower they jump on you. I am sitting on the floor trying to read a story in both Thai and English and all of a sudden they jump. It's a game how many can tackle the teacher. You can tell when it is head lice day as half the kids are wearing plastic shower caps. If that don't scare you what does? Although if you throw them chicken wings or candy they do back off for a bit.

Edited November 8, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[David48]

A serious question to the Teachers here ... what style of English do you teach?

What does the curriculum dictate?

The American style or the English style?

No so much the potato/tomato debate, but more the way a date is written.

For example the 11^th September, that famous day ... 9/11/**** in Thailand is taught as 11/09/**** ??

Spelling of worlds such as colour/color, neighbour/neighbor etc.

Is it the curriculum or the teacher who decides?

Edited November 8, 2012 by David48

[BigJohnnyBKK]

For someone who speaks the English language, already has a personal love for it and is predisposed to teach I think that a CELTA or DELTA are quite sufficient.

For someone with the above qualities plus a commitment to excellence - continuous quality improvement, lifelong learning - even the CELTA isn't necessary, but it is very helpful at getting a solid start and of course useful for getting the higher-paying jobs.

However the incremental pay hike for higher qualifications are usually minimal in Thailand, and only worth doing for those looking to become a DOS or other management position, which in my experience results in 5x the headaches for maybe a 25% increase in income.

People actually intending to teach as a long-term career in Thailand should really avoid the TEFL route completely and get qualified and experiences as school teachers back home and get recruited - usually through one of the top 2-3 agency/fairs - into as good ("real") an international school as possible.

That's the only way to make a living wage here as a teacher, anything else is a frustrating poverty trap long-term.

Actually another exception is the business training market, but that takes a whole other skill set on top of the teaching skills, and again something like DELTA would be of very slight advantage, compared to say corporate sales experience.

[chonabot]

Typical rationalization of incompetence... the only reason you only use english is because you are restricted to only english.

If you had sufficient knowledge of thai, you would use it to explain, when english no longer suffice

When a student has the impetus and desire to use a dictionary - they will go through a process that enables and empowers them to remember a word or phrase far more efficiently than if you translate it for them.

This is a proven fact.

For the record I do speak Thai and use it when it is the last resort - it is useful for classroom management and when speaking to the Thai English teachers.

[chiangmaikelly]

A serious question to the Teachers here ... what style of English do you teach?

What does the curriculum dictate?

The American style or the English style?

No so much the potato/tomato debate, but more the way a date is written.

For example the 11^th September, that fameous day ... 9/11/**** in Thailand is taught as 11/09/**** ??

Spelling of worlds such as colour/color, neighbour/neighbor etc.

Is it the curriculum or the teacher who decides?

I taught survival English. That means me surviving to teach another day. Thai little kids have no idea the difference between American and British. You can tell if they have had a teacher from the Philippines if they call a dress a frock and say mum a lot.

Out of a thousand questions asked of an English teacher how to spell color is way down on the list. I know it is important to some Brits and some Americans but it's not important to Thai people at all.

Edited November 8, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[chonabot]

A serious question to the Teachers here ... what style of English do you teach?

What does the curriculum dictate?

The American style or the English style?

No so much the potato/tomato debate, but more the way a date is written.

For example the 11^th September, that famous day ... 9/11/**** in Thailand is taught as 11/09/**** ??

Spelling of worlds such as colour/color, neighbour/neighbor etc.

Is it the curriculum or the teacher who decides?

You should teach the English that you are familiar with - I teach British English - God save the Queen

[NeverSure]

A serious question to the Teachers here ... what style of English do you teach?

What does the curriculum dictate?

The American style or the English style?

No so much the potato/tomato debate, but more the way a date is written.

For example the 11^th September, that famous day ... 9/11/**** in Thailand is taught as 11/09/**** ??

Spelling of worlds such as colour/color, neighbour/neighbor etc.

Is it the curriculum or the teacher who decides?

Being from the US and knowing about not only those differences but the colloquialisms that appear in each, I can understand almost anything a Brit, Aussie or Canadian says or writes so our English is fine. Now that there is an internet including this forum, I'm getting even more used to it. It's "license," dang it. I'm a "bloke," or so they tell me, dang it. Eh?

If I wanted to learn English as a second language, I would be delighted with any native country, given a good teacher.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

A serious question to the Teachers here ... what style of English do you teach?

What does the curriculum dictate?

The American style or the English style?

No so much the potato/tomato debate, but more the way a date is written.

For example the 11^th September, that fameous day ... 9/11/**** in Thailand is taught as 11/09/**** ??

Spelling of worlds such as colour/color, neighbour/neighbor etc.

Is it the curriculum or the teacher who decides?

In general UK is favoured over US, in practice students are taught a mix, IMO appropriately as long as the differences aren't belaboured to the point of distracting from the more important communicative issues.

In the commercial TEFL market, there is usually a reasonably well-laid out curriculum following a text and that determines the flavor/flavour of language.

In the better foreigner-managed international schools, the teacher is usually given structural guidance but has the freedom to plan lessons and select their materials - the flavour of the school overall will dictate the language issue.

In the Thai-run places, they often assume UK flavour but in fact give little guidance or oversight and in my experience don't care as long as everything seems OK on the surface and children/parents are happy.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

If I wanted to learn English as a second language, I would be delighted with any native country, given a good teacher.

When the accent is so thick even an internationally-acculturated NES has to really struggle to understand, barely getting the gist of even a casual conversation, I have to wonder how much is sinking into their poor little skulls 8-)

WRT speaking/listening skills, the impact of Hollywood games etc makes "standard Yankish" much easier for them, they perceive it as speaking "clearly".

Edited November 8, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[robblok]

Its just the OAP with low pensions having a go at people they consider lower then them. They can't stand the fact that there are young foreigners in Thailand too.

I have no problem with teachers or and most other people else, don't need to put people down to feel good about myself. I really would not want their job, i know some are paid quite well but most are not. But it is not a money thing, I doubt i could handle a classroom full of kids.

I have the most respect for my teachers, and noticed the higher my education was the better the teachers were (quality not knowledge) and the beter the students behaved. One of the last parts in my eduction some tax specialism all the students were professionals (who worked) The teacher was great and keeping order was never needed. If i compare that with the lower levels of education the difference was great.

So if i wanted to work (and had the knowledge) id want to work with older students who know what is at stake. Id go crazy if i had to work with kids. So i have the deepest respect for those who do.

[NeverSure]

If I wanted to learn English as a second language, I would be delighted with any native country, given a good teacher.

When the accent is so thick even an internationally-acculturated NES has to really struggle to understand, barely getting the gist of even a casual conversation, I have to wonder how much is sinking into their poor little skulls 8-)

WRT speaking/listening skills, the impact of Hollywood games etc makes "standard Yankish" much easier for them, they perceive it as speaking "clearly".

Also, some of the worst grammar is perpetuated worldwide via TV commercials and popular songs. I can still remember the first time I heard Sonny and Cher sing "I've Got You, Babe." I thought "Is this what it's coming down to?" Now a Miller Beer commercial says:

"If you’ve got the time.

We’ve got the beer."

Edited November 8, 2012 by NeverSure

[Chonburiram]

Isn't it funny how these 18+ classes "Englishteachers" can be posting atm. Are you running a tape/cd etc. and (ab)use the school's internetconnection?

[maxme]

Obviously you've never heard of private lessons or working in the private sector. Well shows your lack of knowledge more than anything

[Neeranam]

"Nonsense. When teaching a language you only use the language being taught. I'm amazed how many English teachers ask me if I know a Thai who speaks English to teach them Thai, when they know very well that they should never speak Thai when teaching English."

what??? so im completely new to thai language, how do you expect me to understand grammar and verbs when the explanation is in thai?

Think about how a toddler learns their native language .

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Also, some of the worst grammar is perpetuated worldwide via TV commercials and popular songs. I can still remember the first time I heard Sonny and Cher sing "I've Got You, Babe." I thought "Is this what it's coming down to?" Now a Miller Beer commercial says:

"If you’ve got the time.

We’ve got the beer."

Not only do I think you're completely off base I think the whole thrust of your argument is irrelevant. The kind of nit-picky spelling and grammar issues you're focusing on to show your supposed superiority aren't even on the radar screen of importance in teaching people how to use English to communicate effectively.

“This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.”

I don't expect you yourself will likely benefit from this, but I implore those interested in the topic to watch

, it's only six minutes long, and I consider it not only very informative but a work of art.

There's also an excellent recent book on the topic, reviewed well here.

PS It's standard British English to use "have got" where Yanks would only use "have". Not incorrect.

Isn't it funny how these 18+ classes "Englishteachers" can be posting atm. Are you running a tape/cd etc. and (ab)use the school's internetconnection?

Many TEFL teachers' classroom time in the commercial sector is 90% evenings and weekends.

Edited November 8, 2012 by BigJohnnyBKK

[NeverSure]

Also, some of the worst grammar is perpetuated worldwide via TV commercials and popular songs. I can still remember the first time I heard Sonny and Cher sing "I've Got You, Babe." I thought "Is this what it's coming down to?" Now a Miller Beer commercial says:

"If you’ve got the time.

We’ve got the beer."

Not only do I think you're completely off base I think the whole thrust of your argument is irrelevant. The kind of nit-picky spelling and grammar issues you're focusing on to show your supposed superiority aren't even on the radar screen of importance in teaching people how to use English to communicate effectively.

“This is the type of arrant pedantry up with which I will not put.”

OK, Winston Churchill, or whoever said it. I always heard it as "That is one rule up with which I will not put," attributed by some to Churchill at that time as a revolt against rules about prepositions, but I'm not sure who said it or what the quote really was.

I don't expect you yourself will likely benefit from this, but I implore those interested in the topic to watch

, it's only six minutes long, and I consider it not only very informative but a work of art.

There's also an excellent recent book on the topic, reviewed well here.

I will always be interested in learning anything.

PS It's standard British English to use "have got" where Yanks would only use "have". Not incorrect.

I apologize for not knowing the British usage. Will you still accept the popular movie title "He Got Game"? Some will but I don't because if we accept enough colloquialisms, soon enough there are no rules.

I don't believe that trying to learn and use proper grammar is "arrant pedantry." My English teachers would have given me a failing grade if I held that belief.

My father who is 95 was a teacher. He was a college certified teacher. Ever since I can remember and to this day there is on his desk a walnut and brass sign which says: "He who dares to teach must never cease to learn."

[BigJohnnyBKK]

Some will but I don't because if we accept enough colloquialisms, soon enough there are no rules.

The language is constantly changing, these days more rapidly than ever. Therefore over a period of time the "rules" change - if a speech pattern is widespread enough then the rule becomes nothing but a nitpicky holdover for older/wealthier pedants to try to demonstrate their superiority over the unwashed masses.

Whether or not a given sequence of words is "correct" or not will vary by the context. Young people's slang is not "incorrect" unless used in a context where it's inappropriate, e.g. a job application or academic paper. Advertising slogans and film titles can certainly do whatever they like, their whole point is to appeal to the young people who are spending their parents' money.

I don't believe that trying to learn and use proper grammar is "arrant pedantry." My English teachers would have given me a failing grade if I held that belief.

My father who is 95 was a teacher. He was a college certified teacher. Ever since I can remember and to this day there is on his desk a walnut and brass sign which says: "He who dares to teach must never cease to learn."

And that is wise indeed, if you seek to educate yourself further in the trend toward descriptive rather than prescriptive linguistics you will probably realize that much of what your English teachers taught you in grade school is now considered rubbish.

[HeavyDrinker]

As for the "Never use Thai" debate, I'd just say look at the most successful teacher of the lot; Andrew Biggs, and ask if his technique has been a success.

I'd wager you'd find your average Thai would learn more from one of his shows than a month with some prat rattling out his TEFL games aimlessly.

Those "experienced teachers" here saying that you don't need to use the learner's native language in order to teach them successfully are a huge indicator of why the level of English in Thailand is so abysmal.

And still you wonder why people don't take you seriously....?

[teatree]

The problem is that it is easy to pick up work as an English teacher even if you have zero experience, are totally unable to do teach competently and are unprofessional in your approach.

HOWEVER, this type really does unfairly tar all techers with the same brush and there are many, many hard working, intelligent and professioanal teachers who really do inspire their students to learn.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

As for the "Never use Thai" debate, I'd just say look at the most successful teacher of the lot; Andrew Biggs, and ask if his technique has been a success.

I'd wager you'd find your average Thai would learn more from one of his shows than a month with some prat rattling out his TEFL games aimlessly.

Those "experienced teachers" here saying that you don't need to use the learner's native language in order to teach them successfully are a huge indicator of why the level of English in Thailand is so abysmal.

And still you wonder why people don't take you seriously....?

I'm no longer going to try to argue your main point above.

However from a purely practical point of view, there are millions of Thais that need to learn English as quickly as possible. Since Thailand obviously can't afford to hire professional teachers, how on earth are they going to give enough incentive for NES people willing to work for a pittance to actually learn Thai as well?

If what you think is true, they may as well completely give up now. . .

[maxme]

As for the "Never use Thai" debate, I'd just say look at the most successful teacher of the lot; Andrew Biggs, and ask if his technique has been a success.

I'd wager you'd find your average Thai would learn more from one of his shows than a month with some prat rattling out his TEFL games aimlessly.

Those "experienced teachers" here saying that you don't need to use the learner's native language in order to teach them successfully are a huge indicator of why the level of English in Thailand is so abysmal.

And still you wonder why people don't take you seriously....?

Being the loudest mouth in the room doesn't mean one is the smartest one. I find your statement rather naive and not based on essential facts therefor inconclusive. I do agree there are some so called teachers here in this country who never should have been allowed to teach in the first place but to blame the problems of this country on the foreigners is a low blow.

[chiangmaikelly]

As for the "Never use Thai" debate, I'd just say look at the most successful teacher of the lot; Andrew Biggs, and ask if his technique has been a success.

I'd wager you'd find your average Thai would learn more from one of his shows than a month with some prat rattling out his TEFL games aimlessly.

Those "experienced teachers" here saying that you don't need to use the learner's native language in order to teach them successfully are a huge indicator of why the level of English in Thailand is so abysmal.

And still you wonder why people don't take you seriously....?

I'm no longer going to try to argue your main point above.

However from a purely practical point of view, there are millions of Thais that need to learn English as quickly as possible. Since Thailand obviously can't afford to hire professional teachers, how on earth are they going to give enough incentive for NES people willing to work for a pittance to actually learn Thai as well?

If what you think is true, they may as well completely give up now. . .

Teachers from the Philippines speak English well enough to meet the educational needs of 90% of the Thai people. Teachers from the Philippines are available for a price that the Thai government can afford. The Thai government only needs to realize it is time to stop wasting money on white skin.

Edited November 8, 2012 by chiangmaikelly

[NeverSure]

Whether or not a given sequence of words is "correct" or not will vary by the context. Young people's slang is not "incorrect" unless used in a context where it's inappropriate, e.g. a job application or academic paper. Advertising slogans and film titles can certainly do whatever they like, their whole point is to appeal to the young people who are spending their parents' money.

Ah, but therein lies the problem. I hold a firm belief that a lot of kids in college in the US today don't know the difference and are therefore handicapped when writing for a job application, a business letter and so on. Many of them are atrocious and it will negatively affect them if they strive to advance in life in many areas.

Many inner city kids grow up with what's sometimes called "ebonics" and IMHO they are severely handicapped. What if one is a fine athlete who aspires to become a TV commentator? It won't happen for him. Good English is not a dead language. There are still many places where it is the written word which makes the first impression on someone and you know what they say about first impressions.

Now, back to Thailand, if I as a native speaker am speaking to anyone who has English as a second language, then he gets all kinds of slack. If I can merely understand him, he's golden.

It is those who teach, and even more, those who criticis/ze those who teach without all of the top credentials that I hold to a high standard. There are some in this thread with that head-held-high attitude and I aimed my barbs at them, never at you.

And that is wise indeed, if you seek to educate yourself further in the trend toward descriptive rather than prescriptive linguistics you will probably realize that much of what your English teachers taught you in grade school is now considered rubbish.

See above. I believe there are many places where what I was taught is still required if one wishes to be taken seriously. I do agree that in everyday life it isn't necessary and may even be too binding. I don't concede that one shouldn't know, and where appropriate use, the difference.

[BigJohnnyBKK]

It is those who teach, and even more, those who criticis/ze those who teach without all of the top credentials that I hold to a high standard. There are some in this thread with that head-held-high attitude and I aimed my barbs at them, never at you.

But online communications like this forum is one of those contexts where it isn't appropriate to hold anyone to some sort of "high standard". If you're reviewing job applications or grading academic papers then fine, but sloppy usage in email, chat and forums is completely acceptable even when written by people perfectly capable of accurate usage when it's required.

And do please watch that video, it's really a lot of fun!

[phuturatica]

I really couldn't care less what people think of teachers in a foreign country.

I'm really happy with my job teaching and I find it very rewarding.

Screw what all the others say.

Also, for the record... I'm not in Thailand because I want a woman, nor am I here because I can't a job or get laid in my own country. I just happened to be looking for something different in my job and I'm female. (before you hit me with stereotypes)

[NeverSure]

It is those who teach, and even more, those who criticis/ze those who teach without all of the top credentials that I hold to a high standard. There are some in this thread with that head-held-high attitude and I aimed my barbs at them, never at you.

But online communications like this forum is one of those contexts where it isn't appropriate to hold anyone to some sort of "high standard". If you're reviewing job applications or grading academic papers then fine, but sloppy usage in email, chat and forums is completely acceptable even when written by people perfectly capable of accurate usage when it's required.

And do please watch that video, it's really a lot of fun!

First, I did watch the video before I posted and I liked it and agreed for the contexts he was using as examples. It was very good.

Second, I'm trying to make a point which is either wrong, or misunderstood. I believe that if someone posts on this forum, and the thread is about English, and that person purports to be better than thou with English, he then needs to write that statement using correct English or he opens himself up for a critique by the unwashed. Otherwise and for all other purposes I agree. Let it fly. You should see my voice recognition texts which often miss capitalizing the first word of a sentence and I don't go back and correct it because it's a nuisance.

When I see a post on here without those caps and often no space after the period in the prior sentence, I just shrug and assume it's posted from a smartphone. No biggie.