Dtac To Lead Thai Telecom Industry Into 4G Era

[SEK]

Have any of the TV users here ever had any expirience of a overloaded 3G network?

Cell-breeding problem, that is when cell size is changing becauce of increasing load, becoming smaller and smaller until enough users are cut out and the cell size can start to expand again. If you are located outside the minimum cell size you are out of luck, even to perform an ordinary phone call.

Only a 3G network with a lot of spare capacity can provide good service in the whole coverage area.

4G has a much better possibility provide good reliable data service than 3G with any letters after.

2G/GSM is a much more reliable network than 3G, from a service reliability point of view.

Here in Thailand I do not expect to ever see any 3G network that will perform better than existing 2G/GSM.

Bet thing would be to forget 3G and go directly to 4G.

Myself I have GSM/EDGE giving me at best 200 to 300kbits/s to BBS Basestation controller. Ufortunaltly the rest of internet most of the time provides between 12 to 80kbits/s.

I live in the countryside without any chance to ever see a land line with ADSL

I do not expect to see any improvment with 3G in local speed improvment, even if there will be an improvment, internet further down the line need to be improved, for any change to occur.

For me 4G on 800MHz is the most promising prospect for the future, but first DTAC need to build a basestation that is reaching the village were I live.

[HOAX]

Takes huge nards to go on about being a 4G leader when you

have not yet got all 3G up and running everywhere

Having the capability and using and implementing it are very different things

Dtac was first to come with 3G in Thailand, that even after the gov held back it's licensing for a year over it's time. It took Dtac 5 years to get the go ahead, and the mother-company (Telenor) has expressed frustration with the government here in Thailand. Telenor says it's a chaotic mess, with the system organizing being pulled from all kinds of directions within the government. The only reason why there aren't more base stations are because of the gov and not Dtac.

NTC already hinted to the media that Dtac (foreign) dominance in Thailand was not welcomed. AIS is experiencing the same issues after Thaksin were forced to sell AIS. Even Financial Times have been critical to the Thai government's unfair treatment of the foreign owned telecom companies and the licencing process.

Telenor have been finished with 3G in most countries for a while except from Cuba, Burma and Thailand. They have already started with 4G in most countries they are operating in.

The government also require foreign telecom companies to pay 25% of all income to CAT plc. AIS (owned by Singtel/Temasek, which is owned by the Singaporean government) pays to TOT.

LudoMobil (Thailand) AS, a private owned Norwegian telecom company, also confirms the same turbulence with the Thai government. Ludo is a recently new started company. Idar Vollvik, the owner, got famous for buying his previous telecom company Chess for 20 million baht (4 million NOK), then 4 years with success he sold it for 12.5 billion baht (2.5 billion NOK) and after a short time had lost everything by gambling it away on lousy stocks.

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

[sensei]

The problem that I see here is that DTAC puts a cap on the usage. It allows me to use 3G at a respectable speed as long as I do not go over the 2GB cap they have set. Speed goes back to EDGE after that.

Having a faster 4G connection means that I will go through the cap faster then down goes the speed again. It won't take a lot of Youtube videos to burn through that limit.

[Thai at Heart]

Takes huge nards to go on about being a 4G leader when you

have not yet got all 3G up and running everywhere

Having the capability and using and implementing it are very different things

Dtac was first to come with 3G in Thailand, that even after the gov held back it's licensing for a year over it's time. It took Dtac 5 years to get the go ahead, and the mother-company (Telenor) has expressed frustration with the government here in Thailand. Telenor says it's a chaotic mess, with the system organizing being pulled from all kinds of directions within the government. The only reason why there aren't more base stations are because of the gov and not Dtac.

NTC already hinted to the media that Dtac (foreign) dominance in Thailand was not welcomed. AIS is experiencing the same issues after Thaksin were forced to sell AIS. Even Financial Times have been critical to the Thai government's unfair treatment of the foreign owned telecom companies and the licencing process.

Telenor have been finished with 3G in most countries for a while except from Cuba, Burma and Thailand. They have already started with 4G in most countries they are operating in.

The government also require foreign telecom companies to pay 25% of all income to CAT plc. AIS (owned by Singtel/Temasek, which is owned by the Singaporean government) pays to TOT.

LudoMobil (Thailand) AS, a private owned Norwegian telecom company, also confirms the same turbulence with the Thai government. Ludo is a recently new started company. Idar Vollvik, the owner, got famous for buying his previous telecom company Chess for 20 million baht (4 million NOK), then 4 years with success he sold it for 12.5 billion baht (2.5 billion NOK) and after a short time had lost everything by gambling it away on lousy stocks.

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

Well, it isn't quite true that they forced him to sell to Singtel, he brokered the deal himself. He rode his monopoly as far as he could, and then saw it start to be eroded by DTAC and True. If they would just realise that developing mobile networks is of absolulte strategic importance to the country, and it doesn't matter which geography in the world this capital comes from. Telenor got in, but I would have to wonder if they think it was all worth it, but they face the same issue that AIS faced? Who to sell to? Who are the Thai companies with the money to buy it? CP? Oh they are in already.

PTT phone? Siam Cement Telephones? No one is interested in getting in as long as these restrictive laws are in place. So, there will be no Vodafone Thailand, no NTT, no T-Mobile Thailand, because they can't be bothered to deal with the crap that goes on here, and so even though the licenses are issued, the market is comfortably split, no new players, no innovation, no impetus to make it better.

All in the country's best interests right?

[jbrain]

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

Thaksin forced to sell AIS ?That must be a hoax.

[HOAX]

Takes huge nards to go on about being a 4G leader when you

have not yet got all 3G up and running everywhere

Having the capability and using and implementing it are very different things

Dtac was first to come with 3G in Thailand, that even after the gov held back it's licensing for a year over it's time. It took Dtac 5 years to get the go ahead, and the mother-company (Telenor) has expressed frustration with the government here in Thailand. Telenor says it's a chaotic mess, with the system organizing being pulled from all kinds of directions within the government. The only reason why there aren't more base stations are because of the gov and not Dtac.

NTC already hinted to the media that Dtac (foreign) dominance in Thailand was not welcomed. AIS is experiencing the same issues after Thaksin were forced to sell AIS. Even Financial Times have been critical to the Thai government's unfair treatment of the foreign owned telecom companies and the licencing process.

Telenor have been finished with 3G in most countries for a while except from Cuba, Burma and Thailand. They have already started with 4G in most countries they are operating in.

The government also require foreign telecom companies to pay 25% of all income to CAT plc. AIS (owned by Singtel/Temasek, which is owned by the Singaporean government) pays to TOT.

LudoMobil (Thailand) AS, a private owned Norwegian telecom company, also confirms the same turbulence with the Thai government. Ludo is a recently new started company. Idar Vollvik, the owner, got famous for buying his previous telecom company Chess for 20 million baht (4 million NOK), then 4 years with success he sold it for 12.5 billion baht (2.5 billion NOK) and after a short time had lost everything by gambling it away on lousy stocks.

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

Well, it isn't quite true that they forced him to sell to Singtel, he brokered the deal himself. He rode his monopoly as far as he could, and then saw it start to be eroded by DTAC and True. If they would just realise that developing mobile networks is of absolulte strategic importance to the country, and it doesn't matter which geography in the world this capital comes from. Telenor got in, but I would have to wonder if they think it was all worth it, but they face the same issue that AIS faced? Who to sell to? Who are the Thai companies with the money to buy it? CP? Oh they are in already.

PTT phone? Siam Cement Telephones? No one is interested in getting in as long as these restrictive laws are in place. So, there will be no Vodafone Thailand, no NTT, no T-Mobile Thailand, because they can't be bothered to deal with the crap that goes on here, and so even though the licenses are issued, the market is comfortably split, no new players, no innovation, no impetus to make it better.

All in the country's best interests right?

According to the media though, he was "forced" to sell AIS due to him becoming the Prime Minister, since it was against the law (disqualification/conflict of interest). That he chose to sell the company to Singapore was probably his own choice.

[jbrain]

Takes huge nards to go on about being a 4G leader when you

have not yet got all 3G up and running everywhere

Having the capability and using and implementing it are very different things

Dtac was first to come with 3G in Thailand, that even after the gov held back it's licensing for a year over it's time. It took Dtac 5 years to get the go ahead, and the mother-company (Telenor) has expressed frustration with the government here in Thailand. Telenor says it's a chaotic mess, with the system organizing being pulled from all kinds of directions within the government. The only reason why there aren't more base stations are because of the gov and not Dtac.

NTC already hinted to the media that Dtac (foreign) dominance in Thailand was not welcomed. AIS is experiencing the same issues after Thaksin were forced to sell AIS. Even Financial Times have been critical to the Thai government's unfair treatment of the foreign owned telecom companies and the licencing process.

Telenor have been finished with 3G in most countries for a while except from Cuba, Burma and Thailand. They have already started with 4G in most countries they are operating in.

The government also require foreign telecom companies to pay 25% of all income to CAT plc. AIS (owned by Singtel/Temasek, which is owned by the Singaporean government) pays to TOT.

LudoMobil (Thailand) AS, a private owned Norwegian telecom company, also confirms the same turbulence with the Thai government. Ludo is a recently new started company. Idar Vollvik, the owner, got famous for buying his previous telecom company Chess for 20 million baht (4 million NOK), then 4 years with success he sold it for 12.5 billion baht (2.5 billion NOK) and after a short time had lost everything by gambling it away on lousy stocks.

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

Well, it isn't quite true that they forced him to sell to Singtel, he brokered the deal himself. He rode his monopoly as far as he could, and then saw it start to be eroded by DTAC and True. If they would just realise that developing mobile networks is of absolulte strategic importance to the country, and it doesn't matter which geography in the world this capital comes from. Telenor got in, but I would have to wonder if they think it was all worth it, but they face the same issue that AIS faced? Who to sell to? Who are the Thai companies with the money to buy it? CP? Oh they are in already.

PTT phone? Siam Cement Telephones? No one is interested in getting in as long as these restrictive laws are in place. So, there will be no Vodafone Thailand, no NTT, no T-Mobile Thailand, because they can't be bothered to deal with the crap that goes on here, and so even though the licenses are issued, the market is comfortably split, no new players, no innovation, no impetus to make it better.

All in the country's best interests right?

According to the media though, he was "forced" to sell AIS due to him becoming the Prime Minister, since it was against the law (disqualification/conflict of interest). That he chose to sell the company to Singapore was probably his own choice.

He sold the company many years after he became pm, he even created a new law shortly before the sale that would allow him not to pay taxes on the sale.

[RKASA]

"Our current network system would enable us to switch on 3G and 4G signals less than 15 minutes at each base station and bring state-of-the-art services"

Hilarious... they will only have to wait 15 years to get permission. Where do I go to watch next comedy show!

Watch this space............

Bingo - lets just worry about 3G first.

[Thai at Heart]

Takes huge nards to go on about being a 4G leader when you

have not yet got all 3G up and running everywhere

Having the capability and using and implementing it are very different things

Dtac was first to come with 3G in Thailand, that even after the gov held back it's licensing for a year over it's time. It took Dtac 5 years to get the go ahead, and the mother-company (Telenor) has expressed frustration with the government here in Thailand. Telenor says it's a chaotic mess, with the system organizing being pulled from all kinds of directions within the government. The only reason why there aren't more base stations are because of the gov and not Dtac.

NTC already hinted to the media that Dtac (foreign) dominance in Thailand was not welcomed. AIS is experiencing the same issues after Thaksin were forced to sell AIS. Even Financial Times have been critical to the Thai government's unfair treatment of the foreign owned telecom companies and the licencing process.

Telenor have been finished with 3G in most countries for a while except from Cuba, Burma and Thailand. They have already started with 4G in most countries they are operating in.

The government also require foreign telecom companies to pay 25% of all income to CAT plc. AIS (owned by Singtel/Temasek, which is owned by the Singaporean government) pays to TOT.

LudoMobil (Thailand) AS, a private owned Norwegian telecom company, also confirms the same turbulence with the Thai government. Ludo is a recently new started company. Idar Vollvik, the owner, got famous for buying his previous telecom company Chess for 20 million baht (4 million NOK), then 4 years with success he sold it for 12.5 billion baht (2.5 billion NOK) and after a short time had lost everything by gambling it away on lousy stocks.

The problem isn't Dtac. It's the Thai nationalists unwillingness, hate and ignorance. They kinda shot themselves in the foot when they forced Thaksin to sell AIS, which got sold to Singapore. That's when the problems started.

Well, it isn't quite true that they forced him to sell to Singtel, he brokered the deal himself. He rode his monopoly as far as he could, and then saw it start to be eroded by DTAC and True. If they would just realise that developing mobile networks is of absolulte strategic importance to the country, and it doesn't matter which geography in the world this capital comes from. Telenor got in, but I would have to wonder if they think it was all worth it, but they face the same issue that AIS faced? Who to sell to? Who are the Thai companies with the money to buy it? CP? Oh they are in already.

PTT phone? Siam Cement Telephones? No one is interested in getting in as long as these restrictive laws are in place. So, there will be no Vodafone Thailand, no NTT, no T-Mobile Thailand, because they can't be bothered to deal with the crap that goes on here, and so even though the licenses are issued, the market is comfortably split, no new players, no innovation, no impetus to make it better.

All in the country's best interests right?

According to the media though, he was "forced" to sell AIS due to him becoming the Prime Minister, since it was against the law (disqualification/conflict of interest). That he chose to sell the company to Singapore was probably his own choice.

It was in the hands of offshore companies and his family. He wasn't forced to do anything with it in terms of selling it. In fact, what he did do is make sure that he got the law in line so that it could be bought by Singtel and give them the level of direct control they wanted. Without this law being in place it was essentially only worth something to a Thai company, and looking at the political mess attached to the whole investment since they got in, I wonder if Singtel reckoned it was all worth it.

Outside of Singtel, I reckon there wouldn't have been any other multinational phone company remotely interested in buying a company where they couldnt guarantee the legislative situation and give them transparent ownership without having to have offshore and domestic nominee shareholders.

Edited November 9, 2012 by Thai at Heart

[IsaanUSA]

I return to the U.S. ~ every 60 days and I rarely even see 3G in metro-Boston - I do not have a LTE-capable handset.

Still not a lot of LTE handsets either in customers hands, or even on offer from manufacturers.

100% dis-agree. Verizon announced their LTE rollout will be complete in 2013. Samsung Galaxy S3 outsold the iPhone4 in Q3 2012 and it is LTE. Pretty much every new smartphone coming onto the market in the last several months has LTE. Sprint announces a new LTE city every week, and they even had WiMax before. AT&T has 4G in many places.

Most posters in this thread didn't even read the news story. DTAC simply is testing a proof of concept and it works. They state that when they have full control over the 2100mhz spectrum that they bought, it is only a 15 minute process and each of the 15,000 transmitters to change the firmware to broadcast with 4G technology.

This story has nothing to do with existing service, or with the speed of your current phone / hot spot device. A bunch of complainers in here.

[Pib]

I return to the U.S. ~ every 60 days and I rarely even see 3G in metro-Boston - I do not have a LTE-capable handset.

Still not a lot of LTE handsets either in customers hands, or even on offer from manufacturers.

100% dis-agree. Verizon announced their LTE rollout will be complete in 2013. Samsung Galaxy S3 outsold the iPhone4 in Q3 2012 and it is LTE. Pretty much every new smartphone coming onto the market in the last several months has LTE. Sprint announces a new LTE city every week, and they even had WiMax before. AT&T has 4G in many places.

Most posters in this thread didn't even read the news story. DTAC simply is testing a proof of concept and it works. They state that when they have full control over the 2100mhz spectrum that they bought, it is only a 15 minute process and each of the 15,000 transmitters to change the firmware to broadcast with 4G technology.

This story has nothing to do with existing service, or with the speed of your current phone / hot spot device. A bunch of complainers in here.

Dtac now has over 15,700 base stations across Thailand. Over 5,000 of them will be 3G enabled by the end of the year.

"With all this progress, we believe dtac will become a leader in telecom service. With the most advanced technology, we will soon be ready to provide 3G services on the 2.1 GHz frequency band and 4G services in the future," said Darmp.

Prathet Tankuranun, senior vice president - Network Operations Division, said that the test, conducted with the use of aircards and 4G-compatible smart phones, showed a satisfactory result.

"By the end of this year, we expect to have completed the upgrade at base stations in other parts of the country. Besides offering 3G services on the 2.1 GHz frequency band, Dtac is also preparing for the arrival of 4G services. With the technology and equipment that we now have, upgrading our network to 4G is very easy and takes less than 15 minutes at each base station. This will position dtac as the most-prepared telecom operator to launch 4G services in Thailand. All this reflects dtac's leadership in communication technology, and the fact that it now has one of the most advanced mobile networks in Asia," Prathet said.

IsaanUSA,

Maybe you are right...maybe you have extensive 3G/4G technical background....I know I'm sure don't. But from reading the article again and quoting some key parts above my take-away is DTAC has 15,700 base stations of which over 5,000 will be upgraded to 3G capability by the end of the year...3G capability operating on 850MHz which they currently use. Expect the other 10,700 base stations will remain 2G/GSM base stations only because a lot of people could care less about 3G/4G especially for those poor folks out in the sticks where it expensive enough in just putting food on the table and DTAC (nor AIS or True) aren't going to put money to upgrading towers to 3G (or 4G) which would have little to no payback....oh, I will take that back...maybe they will if the govt puts a gun to their head. And I expect where they say upgrading base stations to 4G capability in a mere 15 minutes may apply to those 5,000 base stations which were previously upgraded to also have 3G capability....or maybe they are referring to the 1800MHz band...or maybe the 2100Mhz base stations/radios they will be installing. DTAC is promoting themselves, like any other company would do, but they are also making everything sound like jumping to 4G/LTE is a piece of cake so people should signup with them now!!!! I expect in the real world it's not a piece of cake...but like I said, I don't have extensive 3G/4G background...maybe it will be a piece of cake for the Hub of Patch Work 3G (i.e., Thailand) to switch over the 4G/LTE....or not!

Pib

[IsaanUSA]

Yeah, nobody really knows. It's all up to the company and permissions granted by the government. Obviously the company is only going to upgrade services where they feel they can make additional profit. As consumers, there's really not much we can do, right? We just have to wait and see.

As you said Pib, DTAC is promoting themselves. They are fishing for business. The article is just saying, "Yeah we have the ability to do 4G in the future. We're cutting edge, switch over to our phone service now! 12 easy payments each year. We might have 4G in the future"

[hellodolly]

Let's take them seriously for one minute - Can anyone with a background in telecom confirm that IF dtac implements 4G (big IF I know!), that it would be in the same 2100 MHz spectrum as the current 3G services (presumably what they won at "auction")? It seems implied in this article, however given the suspect nature of the English language journalism here, one never knows...

Yes let us take them serious. Can any one with connections confirm that we will have 3G before the rest of the world has 6G?

[IsaanUSA]

Let's take them seriously for one minute - Can anyone with a background in telecom confirm that IF dtac implements 4G (big IF I know!), that it would be in the same 2100 MHz spectrum as the current 3G services (presumably what they won at "auction")? It seems implied in this article, however given the suspect nature of the English language journalism here, one never knows...

Yes let us take them serious. Can any one with connections confirm that we will have 3G before the rest of the world has 6G?

I dont know what sites we can or can't link to, but here is some info from a Bangkok based news distributor:

In a unanimous decision, the three members of the Ombudsman's Office agreed to ask the court to decide if the 3G auction was free and fair and to issue an injunction halting the issuance of the licences until the court ruling is delivered.

Col Settapong Malisuwan, chairman of the NBTC's telecom committee, said the commission will follow the court order if a ruling is made.

He said the NBTC will have to immediately cease issuing the licences to the auction winners if the court decides to grant an injunction.

"On the other hand, if the court rules in favour of us, we will quickly move ahead to issue the 3G licences within 90 days, or Jan 18 next year, to comply with the 3G's information memorandum condition," he said.

[IsaanUSA]

And 6G does not exist. 5G also does not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

Seriously man, 3 seconds of Googling and you would have this information.

[jbrain]

And 6G does not exist. 5G also does not exist. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/5G

Seriously man, 3 seconds of Googling and you would have this information.

I guess Hellodolly was well aware the 5G and 6G doesn't exist YET, same as Thailand hasn't 3G YET.

Let's see which one will be first, the chicken or the egg.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I guess everyone who wants LTE is ready, willing and able to purchase a new phone? Eh.

I certainly hope DTAC is better at selling people new 4G phones than they are are providing a decent, reliable telecommunications network. Because regarding the latter, overall, they clearly suck, as many posters here can attest. Without even going into DTAC's repeated network failures, etc etc.

Likewise, if their current concession doesn't constrain DTAC in terms of the type of mobile data services they can provide (2G, 3G, 4G, etc...), then what have they been doing all these past months and years...to be in a position now wherein they're actually boasting that they'll have ONE THIRD of their base stations 3G capable by the end of the year..... Really??? One third??? And as Pib reported above, not even able to provide a good, fast 3G signal in the heart of BKK.

BTW, doesn't their new concession pretty much require DTAC (and the other two) to make 3G available nationwide or pretty close to it, regardless of the "nonexistent" market for 3G in rural areas??? Ohh...and how are are those rural schools, many without even electricity, going to get wifi reception for the happy school children's government-provided tablets?

Edited November 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

100% dis-agree. Verizon announced their LTE rollout will be complete in 2013. Samsung Galaxy S3 outsold the iPhone4 in Q3 2012 and it is LTE. Pretty much every new smartphone coming onto the market in the last several months has LTE. Sprint announces a new LTE city every week, and they even had WiMax before. AT&T has 4G in many places.

Only those SGS3's sold in the U.S.A., and a few other markets, are LTE-capable, so yes the version for AT&T, the different version for Sprint, the different version for US Cellular, the different version tfor T-Mobile, the different version for Verizion support that carrier's specific LTE bands. The international version of the SGS3: I9300/I9300T does not support LTE in any flavor. If you were to go to the U.S. for a visit you could use pre-paid GSM (SIM) 3G service from AT&T on 850 or 1900 MHz - T-Mobile still has, for the most part, AWS (1700x2100) but is re-faring some AT&T 1900 MHz. In the U.S. 4G/LTE will be available in most major metropolitan areas, from at least two service providers, over the next two years.

But I think this thread is more about Thailand? Maybe?

I certainly hope DTAC is better at selling people new 4G phones than they are are providing a decent, reliable telecommunications network. Because regarding the latter, overall, they clearly suck, as many posters here can attest. Without even going into DTAC's repeated network failures, etc etc. Likewise, if their current concession doesn't constrain DTAC in terms of the type of mobile data services they can provide (2G, 3G, 4G, etc...), then what have they been doing all these past months and years...to be in a position now wherein they're actually boasting that they'll have ONE THIRD of their base stations 3G capable by the end of the year..... Really??? One third??? And as Pib reported above, not even able to provide a good, fast 3G signal in the heart of BKK. BTW, doesn't their new concession pretty much require DTAC (and the other two) to make 3G available nationwide or pretty close to it, regardless of the "nonexistent" market for 3G in rural areas??? Ohh...and how are are those rural schools, many without even electricity, going to get wifi reception for the happy school children's government-provided tablets?

I believe the current concession requires minimum percent coverage, for both geography and population, for telephony and 2G data, and I think AIS and DTAC met those requirements as required. TrueMove probably has not, but then they play by a different set of rules.

The 2100 MHz auction does have some requirements re: coverage, I think the rules of the auction stipulated 50% POPULATION coverage within two years and 80% POPULATION coverage within four years. DTAC has committed to one and two years respectively.

I think everyone, save a few old souls here on Thai Visa, recognizes that there is little to be gained by deploying 3G on every single base-station.

People, especially the cranky, older types here seem to fall into three categories re: mobiles service providers: mine sucks, yours sucks, they all suck.

As a very satisified DTAC 3G customer for ~ 10 months I would encourage everyone to move to TrueMove H/My by CAT, AIS, TOT and stop hogging my bandwidth. DTAC sucks.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Yes, the coverage requirement is 80% within 4 years for the 3G license holders, assuming they are issued and confirmed.

I guess that's going to be a lot of 3G coverage for a "nonexistent" 3G market in rural areas, depending on how one defines "rural". There are a lot of good sized city areas outside BKK/CM/Pattaya/HH/ etc. where there certainly is a demand and market for better mobile 3G services.

Of course, it's just possible that -- once the telcoms actually build out the 3G networks nationwide as required, and benefit from the substantial reductions in their fees to the government, and whatever pricing controls are implemented, and four or more years has passed -- it's just possible that the rural 3G market won't be "non-existent" any more.

Indeed, there are a lot of rural areas that probably will end up getting their broadband capacity more from 3G once it's deployed than they would from DSL, because those providers aren't offering service in their areas, whereas the mobile providers will be... telephony being more encompassing than wireline Internet for now.

I'm glad, Loma, you're a "Happy" DTAC customer in terms of their broadband services. You can count yourself as one of the few! (And I'm not a DTAC customer happy or unhappy... But I do follow their sorry exploits... )

Edited November 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[innerspace]

I have also been happily using 3g "trials" for ages.

The talk of bringing 3g to thailand is almost as big a joke as the auctions...its been here for years with massive companies working around the laws because of the governments incompetance.

And as for 4g, AFAIK the auctions were not for 3g per se, but for bandwidth spectrums suitable for 3g. So if they stand the 3g auctions could also provide 4g which also works on the same frequencies.

[lomatopo]

You can count yourself as one of the few! (And I'm not a DTAC customer happy or unhappy... )

So that puts you in the "yours sucks" category.

Well just one of 2.4 million I guess. But I'm sure whatever point you were trying to make, makes sense to you?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Just because they have customers...doesn't mean they're "happy" or satisfied customers.... Just ask how "happy" DTAC's customers were the last time they had a network failure, one in a series that they've had.

DTAC fined Bt10m for network failure

USANEE MONGKOLPORN

THE NATION September 6, 2012 1:00 am

The National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission has slapped Total Access Communications (DTAC) with a fine of Bt10 million over its network failure late last month. The mobile-phone service provider must pay the fine within 15 days, NBTC secretary-general Takorn Tantasit said yesterday.

DTAC chief executive officer Jon Eddy Abdullah said his company, the second-largest cellular operator, was willing to pay the fine. He admitted that the incident had caused a negative perception of the company but added that it would launch several campaigns and activities to boost customer satisfaction and encourage them to stick with its network.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/business/DTAC-fined-Bt10m-for-network-failure-30189830.html

Edited November 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[thaicbr]

I guess everyone who wants LTE is ready, willing and able to purchase a new phone? Eh.

I certainly hope DTAC is better at selling people new 4G phones than they are are providing a decent, reliable telecommunications network. Because regarding the latter, overall, they clearly suck, as many posters here can attest. Without even going into DTAC's repeated network failures, etc etc.

Likewise, if their current concession doesn't constrain DTAC in terms of the type of mobile data services they can provide (2G, 3G, 4G, etc...), then what have they been doing all these past months and years...to be in a position now wherein they're actually boasting that they'll have ONE THIRD of their base stations 3G capable by the end of the year..... Really??? One third??? And as Pib reported above, not even able to provide a good, fast 3G signal in the heart of BKK.

BTW, doesn't their new concession pretty much require DTAC (and the other two) to make 3G available nationwide or pretty close to it, regardless of the "nonexistent" market for 3G in rural areas??? Ohh...and how are are those rural schools, many without even electricity, going to get wifi reception for the happy school children's government-provided tablets?

Before the 3g trials that came to Thailand eg True/dtac on 850 and Ais on 900. I would have said Dtac had the best network and fastest Edge connection. They were crippled by successive ITC ministers because of foreign dominance rules and were the last company to be ALLOWED to do 3g. With a 2100 auction pending. No surprise really that they haven't spent to much on it. I do believe if/when the 2100 license is issued they will be a force to be reckoned with again. I hope

PS: maybe the 5000 cell sites will be 2100mhz.

sent from my Q6

Edited November 10, 2012 by thaicbr

[lomatopo]

Just because they have customers...doesn't mean they're "happy" or satisfied customers.... Just ask how "happy" DTAC's customers were the last time they had a network failure, one in a series that they've had.

No one will argue that DTAC hasn't had some serious network outages as they've basically re-built their entire network over the past year or so, nor that these outages have not impacted subscriber defections. The foreign-dominance issue probably doesn't raise as much ire in consumers as it might have 10 years ago. As their concession has so long to run, until 2018, and with no guarantees that new spectrum would become available, they really needed to re-build their infrastructure. TrueMove and AIS's concessions are ending much sooner so they can limp along on their aging infrastructure.

In general, consumers rarely poll as happy or satisfied with utility providers, but perhaps not quite as negatively as they do with the folks on Thaivisa?

I'm still looking for some detailed Q3 numbers but as far as total subs goes:

AIS 34,808

DTAC 23,601

TrueMobile 17,931

in millions, recent data

edited to add: DTAC's outages have been attributable to the new infrastructure cut-overs, but one was the result of simultaneous redundant backbone interruptions, maybe by a major road accident, and some inept third-party construction efforts?

Edited November 10, 2012 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

In terms of their history, DTAC seems to have been talking out of both sides of their mouth in terms of their legal ability to launch 3G services prior to the recent auction. From The Nation last November:

DTAC argued that the launch complied with the concession. It has insisted that it can launch its commercial 3G service under the permit it secured from the now-defunct National Telecommunications Commission to install and use a 3G-HSPA (high-speed packet access) network.

DTAC has been waiting for CAT's permit since 2008 to upgrade the network to offer the 3G service. DTAC needed to launch the service or risk losing its premium customers to Real Move and Advanced Info Service, which have already made full 3G services available.

So if their long-delayed 3G launch last year "complied with their concession", then why had they been "waiting for CAT's permit" since 2008, which was the same year DTAC originally received permission to run 3G from the now-defunct National Telecommunications Commission?

And of course in the end, DTAC went ahead and launched their commercial 3G service in BKK in August 2011 without CAT's permission and in fact over CAT's explicit objections. So years and years of waiting for what???

http://www.nationmul...e-30169069.html

Of course, if I was running a business that depended in large part on dealing with CAT (or TOT for that matter), I'd probably have offed myself many years ago and thrown the whole endeavor in the can...

Edited November 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[lomatopo]

And of course in the end, DTAC went ahead and launched their commercial 3G service in BKK in August 2011 without CAT's permission and in fact over CAT's explicit objections.

I think there were two, or more, primary issues:

1.) CAT wished to restrain DTAC as they (CAT) themselves built out their own 3G network, which they re-sell to TrueMove H. Smart move holding back the competition.

2.) CAT were "taking a long time" negotiating the concession fee rates for 3G.

So years and years of waiting for what???

You mean other than so you could whinge about it?

Seriously, it comes back to 3G CPE (phones, aircards, tablets, etc.), which weren't that widely available until the iPhone. So there wasn't a huge market for the services, either from a CPE perspective, and arguably from an apps perspective, or even from a consumer perspective - there are a limited number of people who can afford mobile broadband services.

Edited November 10, 2012 by lomatopo

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

I was here in 2008 and I had a 3G capable Nokia phone then... And I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one capable of mobile 3G back then. Maybe even you had a 3G phone back in the good ole' days.

DTAC certainly made a big deal back in 2008 in announcing the arrival then (supposedly) of their 3G network... and how it was going to transform Thailand...So at least DTAC must have thought and believed back then in 2008 (FOUR YEARS AGO!) that there was a market for it... unlike you Loma...

The three benefits of 3G

The NTC’s approval of the 3G upgrade comes at a good time; the country needs investments in vast projects to stimulate its overall economy. The decision also helps boost the confidence of the general public and investors in the growth potential of the nation. The company believes the approval for mobile phone operators to develop 3G services will result in three advantages at the same time:

• Consumers will enjoy better and faster access to information through high-speed telecommunications networks, as people in other countries are experiencing.
  
• The decision benefits the overall telecommunications industry because the 3G technology will lead to active development among mobile phone operators and related entrepreneurs such as mobile phone vendors, application developers and content producers.
  
• The decision will contribute to national economic and social development because 3G systems will expand information access to all regions of the country, especially remote areas that are longing for efficient telecommunications and Internet networks.
  

Five billion baht investment plan

dtac will build about 1,200 new base stations during the first phase of the upgrade plan, at an estimated cost of approximately five million baht. Initially dtac introduces 3G services in Bangkok, Phuket and Chon Buri, which are major provinces with high market demands. The company is confident that it will complete the installation and launch commercial services within one year after obtaining official approval. [Emphasis added]

http://telenor.com/n...ts-green-light/

And as for the issue of mobile 3G service in rural/remote areas of Thailand, note what DTAC was saying four years ago.

3G systems will expand information access to all regions of the country, especially remote areas that are longing for efficient telecommunications and Internet networks.

Edited November 10, 2012 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[Thai at Heart]

Just because they have customers...doesn't mean they're "happy" or satisfied customers.... Just ask how "happy" DTAC's customers were the last time they had a network failure, one in a series that they've had.

No one will argue that DTAC hasn't had some serious network outages as they've basically re-built their entire network over the past year or so, nor that these outages have not impacted subscriber defections. The foreign-dominance issue probably doesn't raise as much ire in consumers as it might have 10 years ago. As their concession has so long to run, until 2018, and with no guarantees that new spectrum would become available, they really needed to re-build their infrastructure. TrueMove and AIS's concessions are ending much sooner so they can limp along on their aging infrastructure.

In general, consumers rarely poll as happy or satisfied with utility providers, but perhaps not quite as negatively as they do with the folks on Thaivisa?

I'm still looking for some detailed Q3 numbers but as far as total subs goes:

AIS 34,808

DTAC 23,601

TrueMobile 17,931

in millions, recent data

edited to add: DTAC's outages have been attributable to the new infrastructure cut-overs, but one was the result of simultaneous redundant backbone interruptions, maybe by a major road accident, and some inept third-party construction efforts?

The foreign issue never figures with consumers. It's dumbass flag waving politicians and businessmen who care.

Would a Thai turn down superior service over a flag? No way.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

Here's a good site for up to date info on DTAC's Thailand operations and financials:

http://telenor.com/global-presence/thailand/

BTW, it was "funny" the other day, to see in one of the court complaints challenging the recent 3G auctions one of the Thai complainants raising the issue that DTAC's CEO is an AMERICAN!!! Ohh... horrors for Thailand!!!

Jon Eddy Abdullah

CEO of dtac, Thailand

• Appointed: 1 March 2011
  

Background: Prior his current position as CEO of dtac, Jon Eddy Abdullah was CEO of Telenor Pakistan in 2008. From 2002 – 2007, he was Chief Technology Officer of DiGi Telecom.

Education: Bachelor of Science, Electrical Engineering (BSEE) from Montana State University, USA.

[Thai at Heart]

Just because they have customers...doesn't mean they're "happy" or satisfied customers.... Just ask how "happy" DTAC's customers were the last time they had a network failure, one in a series that they've had.

No one will argue that DTAC hasn't had some serious network outages as they've basically re-built their entire network over the past year or so, nor that these outages have not impacted subscriber defections. The foreign-dominance issue probably doesn't raise as much ire in consumers as it might have 10 years ago. As their concession has so long to run, until 2018, and with no guarantees that new spectrum would become available, they really needed to re-build their infrastructure. TrueMove and AIS's concessions are ending much sooner so they can limp along on their aging infrastructure.

In general, consumers rarely poll as happy or satisfied with utility providers, but perhaps not quite as negatively as they do with the folks on Thaivisa?

I'm still looking for some detailed Q3 numbers but as far as total subs goes:

AIS 34,808

DTAC 23,601

TrueMobile 17,931

in millions, recent data

edited to add: DTAC's outages have been attributable to the new infrastructure cut-overs, but one was the result of simultaneous redundant backbone interruptions, maybe by a major road accident, and some inept third-party construction efforts?

The foreign issue never figures with consumers. It's dumbass flag waving politicians and businessmen who care.

Would a Thai turn down superior service over a flag? No way.