Blocking Of Krabi Video Considered

[jerrysteve]

THEY would have to do a whole lot more to untarnish the image than block a video irrespective or mutually exclusive of a video!!! Any tarnished image which exists, the Thais and not foreigners hold the responsibility for. Edited November 10, 2012 by jerrysteve

[bubblegum]

Actually the clip is popular within the Thai internet community and people are outraged by the way it is handled by the police.

[Aonangfarang]

I am new to posting on here but have been living in thailand for awhile now.

I'm pretty sure (at least 80%) that I hung out with that guy last night who's photo is in the video. It was either him or his identical twin. He's not really in hiding as I could find him pretty easily if I wanted. Had no clue about this video until now. He seemed nice enough and was interested in conversation and spoke good english but we all know how things "seem" around here.

[Colabamumbai]

I suggest that everyone watching this subject some 356 people now, post the video to their facebook site.

[supaprik]

340,000 odd view is hardly "viral" <deleted>.... I certainly have empathy for the young ladies father though, the rapist ( if found guilty that is ) should be dealt with to the full extent of the law.... As to comments from Thai Gov officals..situation normal there, As to the video having any effect on tourism...I very much doubt it, Thailand seems to be able to rape, murder, defraud and serve up numerous other nasties but they just keep coming and will continue to do so.... Really wish the young lady all the best, she is the victim in all this and thus deserves our thoughts...

[bigbamboo]

Well it can be blocked in Thailand, but doing so will likely just massively INCREASE the viral nature of the video internationally .... where the international tourists come from.

Exactly. That will send it super viral.

I bet the young protester Dylan would have loved the internet!

[pmem]

Is the daughter willing to come back to testify or is this a matter of they want justice done magically. Regretfully but unavoidably, you need to have victims relive their experience through testimony if you want prosecution ... even in his country.

I certainly hope so and I would expect farangs in mass to get behind her, support her and protect her from intimidation by the low life police, judiciary and political cretins.

[uptheos]

Well it can be blocked in Thailand, but doing so will likely just massively INCREASE the viral nature of the video internationally .... where the international tourists come from.

Yup, I would imagine the father is REALLY hoping it's banned in Thailand!

[pmem]

Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa had said earlier that the incident could not be considered rape. He quoted provincial tourism police chief, Pol Maj-General Loi Ingkhaphairoj as saying: "The woman had dinner with the Thai suspect and a foreign man. Later, she told the foreign man to return to the hotel before heading off with the suspect."

Good work dip-stick, you have now made it impossible for the lady to receive natural justice. Do you have any daughters arse hole.

[technologybytes]

It's easy to get all upset by a comment like "this case cannot be considered rape", and assume that it's because Thai's don't believe in rape.. etc etc.

Well, lets look at it for a western perspective. A few years ago, if this sort of thing happened in the west it WOULD NOT be called rape, ii would be labeled "DATE RAPE"... sounds the same, but adding the word DATE in front of the word RAPE changes the meaning quite substantially, not only in name but in many cases in the form of punishment IF a perpetrator was found guilty.

I AM NOT SAYING that she was not raped, and I'm certainly NOT suggesting for one moment that the crime was any less heinous just because she had dinner with him and possible went back to his place, or invited him to hers..

What I AM SAYING is that when you translate a word into Thai you have to accept that meanings can differ, in the same way that meanings differed in the west 30 years ago to some extent. If you accept that in the west (in some countries) we have a DIFFERENT expression that we call "Date Rape", then it's understandable that when you translate just the word RAPE that a Thai can say "this case cannot be considered rape". Defense lawyers in the west SAY THE SAME THING under circumstances where both parties had been drinking and they go into a bedroom environment of their own free will. I AM NOT SAYING that what happened is not rape, I just don't know what happened, and neither does anyone except the man and woman in the room at the time.

Also, for the record. The suggestion that bail was inappropriate is a difficult call. Bail is often given in the west to people accused of similar offences under similar circumstances.. remember he's a suspect and an alleged rapist that has not been given the opportunity yet to defend himself in a court of law. He may be an evil man, I just don't know and neither I suggest do you.

[skorchio]

Well it can be blocked in Thailand, but doing so will likely just massively INCREASE the viral nature of the video internationally .... where the international tourists come from.

Yes I hope they block it and watch the hit rate go through the roof after the blocking becomes an even bigger scandal in Europe and elsewhere. Go on Minister, just do it.

Edited November 10, 2012 by skorchio

[Lancelot]

Does any country not have some character in government who is prone to making ridiculous comments. Possibly he only meant it was not "forced rape" as one US politician claims is different and whose colleague recently stated it is God's will should a rape victim get pregnant ... and these are comments made around elections time in a first world nation.

What this moron says means nothing. He is about tourism and has nothing to do with the justice system and doubt he has a law degree. On top of it, I find it a frequent thing for English reports on what Thai leaders say are often misquoted or taken out of context but if not mistaken, this guy is known for making stupid comments.

All countries have persons of power and official authority that make, a-hem, less than intelligent comments. However, in most other countries, those folks are lampooned, ridiculed and taken to task for their gaffs...

[tombkk]

A post suggesting violent action has been hidden from view.

All, please keep it civil here.

Also, the Rolling Stone magazine is off-topic here. Thanks.

[Thai at Heart]

It's easy to get all upset by a comment like "this case cannot be considered rape", and assume that it's because Thai's don't believe in rape.. etc etc.

Well, lets look at it for a western perspective. A few years ago, if this sort of thing happened in the west it WOULD NOT be called rape, ii would be labeled "DATE RAPE"... sounds the same, but adding the word DATE in front of the word RAPE changes the meaning quite substantially, not only in name but in many cases in the form of punishment IF a perpetrator was found guilty.

I AM NOT SAYING that she was not raped, and I'm certainly NOT suggesting for one moment that the crime was any less heinous just because she had dinner with him and possible went back to his place, or invited him to hers..

What I AM SAYING is that when you translate a word into Thai you have to accept that meanings can differ, in the same way that meanings differed in the west 30 years ago to some extent. If you accept that in the west (in some countries) we have a DIFFERENT expression that we call "Date Rape", then it's understandable that when you translate just the word RAPE that a Thai can say "this case cannot be considered rape". Defense lawyers in the west SAY THE SAME THING under circumstances where both parties had been drinking and they go into a bedroom environment of their own free will. I AM NOT SAYING that what happened is not rape, I just don't know what happened, and neither does anyone except the man and woman in the room at the time.

Also, for the record. The suggestion that bail was inappropriate is a difficult call. Bail is often given in the west to people accused of similar offences under similar circumstances.. remember he's a suspect and an alleged rapist that has not been given the opportunity yet to defend himself in a court of law. He may be an evil man, I just don't know and neither I suggest do you.

It doesn't mitigate what charge the rapist would face, and whether or not Thailand is able to understand the concept of rape, apparently the guy beat the crap out of her too. The concept of date rape was created to describe what was a statistically common type of offence, to make people aware of the concept to protect themselves and to teach stupid people, that just because you buy someone a dinner, and they appear interested, it doesn't give anyone the right to rape them,.

I might be wrong, but people are not accused of date rape, it is a tabloid concept that came out of studying statistics to highlight a type of very serious offence to highlight it and raise awareness.

So a violent rape that occurs like this is rarely if ever classified as a "date" rape in the West.

[onthemoon]

So, people here on ThaiVisa complain about the justice system not working in Thailand but are all in agreement that this particular man raped the girl. Without even asking what the man has to say about it. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

The video does not give any information whatsoever. It probably became viral for two reasons:

1.) It is good music

2.) It is very opinionated (I don't expect the father to be neutral) and installs hatred. The rifle in his hand is certainly a prop with a meaning. That's "sexy" in marketing terms.

I fully understand the father's behaviour and intention, but let's not judge before any fair trial has taken place.

End remark: The politician's remark was indeed stupid.

[Buchholz]

News on Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa's comments regarding the rape case of The Evil Man From Krabi as well as other aspects of the topic is getting out in the Thai press as well

http://news.sanook.com/1152745/%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B8%E0%B8%A1%E0%B8%9E%E0%B8%A5-%E0%B8%AA%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%9A-%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%A5%E0%B8%B4%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%9B%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%99%E0%B9%84%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%AD%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%88%E0%B8%B2%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A2%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%97%E0%B8%B9%E0%B8%9B/

http://www.onlinetha...=1960#more-1960

http://www.clipmass.com/story/%E0%B8%84%E0%B8%99%E0%B8%8A%E0%B8%B1%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%A7%E0%B9%81%E0%B8%AB%E0%B9%88%E0%B8%87%E0%B8%81%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B0%E0%B8%9A%E0%B8%B5%E0%B9%88-%E0%B8%AB%E0%B8%A3%E0%B8%B7%E0%B8%AD-evil-man-from-krabi---53664

[Nisa]

Actually the clip is popular within the Thai internet community and people are outraged by the way it is handled by the police.

What part of the police actions? Their getting video footage from the bar, showing it to the girl, getting her to identify they girl and then arresting and charging the guy after she left Thailand? The fact the court granted him bail is a clear indication at this point they are pursuing a case against him. Accused don't get bail when they are not accused / charged with a crime. Dad is simply mad that an accused person has been afforded the right to bail and presumably because a trial has already taken place that has found him guilty ... this is an understandable thing when victims and their families feel like they are violated because in all civil society the courts treat a person as innocent until proven guilty and if cannot be proven to be a flight risk or danger to the community they are also granted reasonable bail.

If I am missing something in this case then let me know but even the side we have heard so far being just the victim's indicates it is not going to be an easy prosecution. If she was raped, I am guessing she was, any defense attorney is going to bring up the fact she sent her boyfriend away (or he left her on her own that bar depending on version I have read) and chose to go out on a date of drinking and dinner with local and then invited him to take her home. The next question they may pose is if any injuries she received were from the boyfriend for going out and possibly having sex with the local. No saying any of this happened but a defense attorney would be reckless not to suggest this as a possibility and if she isn't here to defend such claims they he is likely going to walk but even with all this, the police have still charged him and are pursing prosecution.

Tell me what I am missing in terms of police handling this wrong?

Edited November 10, 2012 by Nisa

[pmem]

So, people here on ThaiVisa complain about the justice system not working in Thailand but are all in agreement that this particular man raped the girl. Without even asking what the man has to say about it. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

The video does not give any information whatsoever. It probably became viral for two reasons:

1.) It is good music

2.) It is very opinionated (I don't expect the father to be neutral) and installs hatred. The rifle in his hand is certainly a prop with a meaning. That's "sexy" in marketing terms.

I fully understand the father's behaviour and intention, but let's not judge before any fair trial has taken place.

End remark: The politician's remark was indeed stupid.

Stupid or brown paper bag crafty. This cretin will never go to jail. Edited November 10, 2012 by ozall

[JariB]

Tourism Minister Chumphol Silapa-archa had said earlier that the incident could not be considered rape. He quoted provincial tourism police chief, Pol Maj-General Loi Ingkhaphairoj as saying: "The woman had dinner with the Thai suspect and a foreign man. Later, she told the foreign man to return to the hotel before heading off with the suspect."

Krabi police said earlier yesterday that they would produce a clip to counter the one produced by the father, because they believe some of the points mentioned are incorrect, provincial police chief Pol Maj-General Nuntadet Yoinuan said yesterday.

If they produce a clip with excuses such as those in the first quoted paragraph, the result would most likely be more canceled hotel bookings. Go ahead.

[Pomthai]

Actually the clip is popular within the Thai internet community and people are outraged by the way it is handled by the police.

--SNIP--

Tell me what I am missing in terms of police handling this wrong?

How about the part where the alleged perpetrator admits rape and the part where his sister allegedly offered a bribe (which was refused) to drop the matter?

Edited November 10, 2012 by Pomthai

[boggle]

Actually the clip is popular within the Thai internet community and people are outraged by the way it is handled by the police.

What part of the police actions? Their getting video footage from the bar, showing it to the girl, getting her to identify they girl and then arresting and charging the guy after she left Thailand? The fact the court granted him bail is a clear indication at this point they are pursuing a case against him. Accused don't get bail when they are not accused / charged with a crime. Dad is simply mad that an accused person has been afforded the right to bail and presumably because a trial has already taken place that has found him guilty ... this is an understandable thing when victims and their families feel like they are violated because in all civil society the courts treat a person as innocent until proven guilty and if cannot be proven to be a flight risk or danger to the community they are also granted reasonable bail.

If I am missing something in this case then let me know but even the side we have heard so far being just the victim's indicates it is not going to be an easy prosecution. If she was raped, I am guessing she was, any defense attorney is going to bring up the fact she sent her boyfriend away (or he left her on her own that bar depending on version I have read) and chose to go out on a date of drinking and dinner with local and then invited him to take her home. The next question they may pose is if any injuries she received were from the boyfriend for going out and possibly having sex with the local. No saying any of this happened but a defense attorney would be reckless not to suggest this as a possibility and if she isn't here to defend such claims they he is likely going to walk but even with all this, the police have still charged him and are pursing prosecution.

Tell me what I am missing in terms of police handling this wrong?

I think why the Dad got even more pissed off, if possible, and made this video as I understand it is that the Thai guy confessed and was in the lockup then he withdrew his confession and then let out on bail. I dont know if this is a normal judicial process or what.

[Nisa]

So, people here on ThaiVisa complain about the justice system not working in Thailand but are all in agreement that this particular man raped the girl. Without even asking what the man has to say about it. Whatever happened to "innocent until proven guilty"?

That only becomes relevant here when a farang is accused of the crime and we have actual facts and information about the crime from authorities indicting overwhelming evidence against the accused ;-)

But my guess is this guy is guilty and/or believe the women as police would not have arrested him and continuing to pursue the matter if they thought is was BS. No matter how superior some want to feel about Thai investigators, they are well trained in reading people and figuring out what is BS just as they did with the farang girl (forget where from) who accused the Thais of raping her a few months ago but turned out the got the girl to admit it was BS and think she got a couple weeks in jail.

[BarryM]

Maybe a few members (not living in Thailand if you value your security here) should post the video where it matters:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts

http://www.facebook.com/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts#!/tat.sg

http://www.facebook.com/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts#!/TAT.HongKong

http://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Tourism%20Authority%20of%20Thailand&init=quick&tas=0.6925506082652573#!/TAT.USA

http://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Tourist.Info?ref=ts&fref=ts

[crazydrummerpauly]

"The father was possibly furious due to a misunderstanding. He went on to say that the authorities would try to help the girl's father understand the situation in order to "rebuild the country's image"

What a joke, do not care about the victim or justice for the victim. They only care about Thailand's image.

People should realize before the arrive that Thailand is not the same same as any civilized nation. Thailand

is like the wild west. They should realize that Thailand is a 3rd world nation where laws are not obeyed and

there are laws for the rich, laws for the Thais and laws for foreigners

Actually, Thailand is not, 'a 3rd world nation' - and that is what makes its deficiencies in the political and legal spheres so bloody depressing.

[BobbyLambo]

"Krabi police said earlier yesterday that they would produce a clip to counter the one produced by the father, because they believe some of the points mentioned are incorrect, provincial police chief Pol Maj-General Nuntadet Yoinuan said yesterday."

Oh man, I can't wait to see the clip the police produce to counter the fathers claims. Hilarity ensues.

Edited November 10, 2012 by BobbyLambo

[Nisa]

Actually the clip is popular within the Thai internet community and people are outraged by the way it is handled by the police.

What part of the police actions? Their getting video footage from the bar, showing it to the girl, getting her to identify they girl and then arresting and charging the guy after she left Thailand? The fact the court granted him bail is a clear indication at this point they are pursuing a case against him. Accused don't get bail when they are not accused / charged with a crime. Dad is simply mad that an accused person has been afforded the right to bail and presumably because a trial has already taken place that has found him guilty ... this is an understandable thing when victims and their families feel like they are violated because in all civil society the courts treat a person as innocent until proven guilty and if cannot be proven to be a flight risk or danger to the community they are also granted reasonable bail.

If I am missing something in this case then let me know but even the side we have heard so far being just the victim's indicates it is not going to be an easy prosecution. If she was raped, I am guessing she was, any defense attorney is going to bring up the fact she sent her boyfriend away (or he left her on her own that bar depending on version I have read) and chose to go out on a date of drinking and dinner with local and then invited him to take her home. The next question they may pose is if any injuries she received were from the boyfriend for going out and possibly having sex with the local. No saying any of this happened but a defense attorney would be reckless not to suggest this as a possibility and if she isn't here to defend such claims they he is likely going to walk but even with all this, the police have still charged him and are pursing prosecution.

Tell me what I am missing in terms of police handling this wrong?

I think why the Dad got even more pissed off, if possible, and made this video as I understand it is that the Thai guy confessed and was in the lockup then he withdrew his confession and then let out on bail. I dont know if this is a normal judicial process or what.

Remember what the source of this information was and that bail is not an indication of guilt. In fact admitting your crime in Thailand gains trust and likely hood you will return to court while on bail as well as getting 1/2 the time knocked off your sentence. This isn't even getting into the fact how many posters here swear Thai police beat confessions out of people or just make them up.

People have a right to recant their testimony and Dad has a right to be mad every step of the way and each time the accused is granted his rights but I just have a problem, given what we know about this case, to condemn the Thai police or judicial system. Of course no system is perfect and has incident of things going wrong but I just haven't heard anything go wrong in this case and it actually appears the police pursued the matter even after the women left the country.

[Arkady]

Is the daughter willing to come back to testify or is this a matter of they want justice done magically. Regretfully but unavoidably, you need to have victims relive their experience through testimony if you want prosecution ... even in his country.

Please understand the procedure for handling rape cases in Thailand is probably similar to the way things were done in most Western countries prior to the Second World War. The female rape victim has virtually zero chance of being questioned by a female police investigator because there aren't many of them and there is no policy to assign them to female rape victims. The male police investigators automatically zero in on the victim's sexual history to try to make the standard case that the victim encouraged the rapist and later changed her mind. And so it will go through the court proceedings in the unlikely event that a case with a surviving victim ever makes it to court. Normally the rapist will be given bail so that he can be free to intimidate the victim and her family and friends and, importantly, witnesses. Many victims run out of the police station in tears and abandon the case which is what the system is designed to achieve. Often that is the safest thing for them to due to the high risk of being raped again in a police station.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Arkady

[Nisa]

Maybe a few members (not living in Thailand if you value your security here) should post the video where it matters:

http://www.facebook.com/#!/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts

http://www.facebook.com/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts#!/tat.sg

http://www.facebook.com/thaiairwaysuk?fref=ts#!/TAT.HongKong

http://www.facebook.com/search/results.php?q=Tourism%20Authority%20of%20Thailand&init=quick&tas=0.6925506082652573#!/TAT.USA

http://www.facebook.com/Thailand.Tourist.Info?ref=ts&fref=ts

Yes, because rape doesn't occur in their home countries and foreigners leaving bars with strangers is safe in their country. And that is in no way blaming a rape victim because even if a girl is drunk running around topless doesn't give any man the right to force themselves on her but I also think in every country you need to takes steps to not putting yourself in a position to be a victim being it going to the wrong side of town alone at night or leaving your valuables unattended ... doesn't make it right if you are mugged or stolen from but the fact is there are bad people everywhere and we all need to take do caution to help us not fall victim to them and this applies just about everywhere but more especially for foreigners in a less developed nation.

[Nisa]

First, thank g-d for the internet and social media.

Second, on the subject of Bail for rape suspects, see this interesting list of bail amounts in the state of California -

http://californiabailattorney.com/californiabailschedule.php

Given this is not California where you only need to come up with 10% of the bail and the average rape bail is $100,000 (10,000) and the average Californian makes more than 10 times what an average Thai makes ... this averages out to $1000 or 30,000 baht in Thailand. Not to mention this is an average and some folks committing rapes jumping out of bushes with a stranger can have bail over a million while those accused of something closer to what some call "date rape" with ties to the community get off with just a promise to appear.

But more importantly, you are comparing California bail amount with a bail for a guy in Thailand whose bail amount we don;t even know.

[BarryM]

Maybe a few members (not living in Thailand if you value your security here) should post the video where it matters:

http://www.facebook....rwaysuk?fref=ts

http://www.facebook....ref=ts#!/tat.sg

http://www.facebook....#!/TAT.HongKong

http://www.facebook....52573#!/TAT.USA

http://www.facebook....?ref=ts&fref=ts

Yes, because rape doesn't occur in their home countries and foreigners leaving bars with strangers is safe in their country. And that is in no way blaming a rape victim because even if a girl is drunk running around topless doesn't give any man the right to force themselves on her but I also think in every country you need to takes steps to not putting yourself in a position to be a victim being it going to the wrong side of town alone at night or leaving your valuables unattended ... doesn't make it right if you are mugged or stolen from but the fact is there are bad people everywhere and we all need to take do caution to help us not fall victim to them and this applies just about everywhere but more especially for foreigners in a less developed nation.

Back in their home countries, rape victims don't expect to see the accused released after confessing to violent rape.

Nor are they used to government ministers dismissing the rape because the victim had eaten with the rapits.

Tourists normally expect that local law enforcement is there for their protection. Not to cover up and distort crimes against tourists in case it hurts their patrons wallets.