Australian Arrested And Charged With Sexually Abusing A 7-Year-Old Thai Boy

BookMan · November 10, 2012

This article in the Sydney Morning Heral indicates that Potterton sent home an image of a 15 year old boy. I guess things were discovered after that.

"A Sydney man has been arrested in Thailand on paedophile-related charges after Australian Federal Police (AFP) allegedly intercepted photographs emailed to Australia.

Ian Potterton, 51, was detained by Thai authorities on Thursday before boarding an Australian-bound flight at Bangkok's International Airport after a short holiday in Thailand, a Thai police official from the Anti-Human Trafficking Division said.

On Friday, Potterton arrived at Crime Suppression Division Headquarters wearing blue jeans and a chequered blue shirt, his hand bandaged after spending a night in hospital receiving treatment for bronchitis and pneumonia.

Senior Thai police said the charges related to nude photographs of a 15-year-old Thai boy sent to Australia.

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Potterton denies the charges, saying the pictures are of a "non-sexual nature" and he's the victim of over-zealous policing."

http://www.smh.com.a...1109-293j4.html

Edited November 10, 2012 by BookMan

culicine · November 10, 2012

Something doesn't sound right - he's just returning home now after 2 weeks in Thailand, yet, they seized material (presumably with evidence) in Australia two weeks ago, presumably before the alleged offence had taken place. Thy guy was stupid enough to leave evidence of his planned activities? Thanks for stitching yourself up

Based on your post, I can't help wondering what kind of monitoring the AFP is doing on individuals. Was he individually targeted for some reason or was he part of a general monitoring effort? Can any of you Aussies comment on the state of the police state in, pardon the expression, down under?

I wonder if he was known to police and was being monitored? They would have been fully aware of his planned trip - most big government agencies seem to be linked. The CES kows when my mum travels overseas, for example. The can't arrest him on suspicion so he was allowed to travel overseas...it's all speculation of course so I hope more information comes to light.

theblether · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.
AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

GentlemanJim · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.
AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

15Peter20 · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.
AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

Completely agree. Now all we need is for posters to keep these standards of judgement you outline above in mind before they post on other news topics - e.g political ones - and this forum would become a far more reasonable and interesting place to hold a discussion.

MaxYakov · November 10, 2012

@MaxYakov: The report you referenced is from Civil Liberties Australia and reviews the use of electronic monitoring and reporting tools used by governments and alledged abuse of around the world by law enforcement & intelligence organisations. A sophisticated example, that is known of, is “Echelon”; for detail go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

With reference to this topic, it is in my opinion, perfectly acceptable for law enforcement agencies to utilise electronic web monitoring capabilities to identify unlawful access by individuals of material such as child pornography and things such as chat sites for targeting and grooming under age individuals for sex. For instance, these capabilities have been reported in the media when arresting and charging pedophiles rings operating at the global level for sharing content; often as a commercial endeavour. For those who are inferring that this is Police State intrusion, I say to you ‘think again”

Thanks for the ECHELON Wiki link. It's nice to see fairly-shared, taxpayers' money hard at work, even though it was developed for intelligence-gathering, not specifically law enforcement. It is a little disconcerting, but not surprising, that it could have been (is?) being used for purposes of industrial and economic espionage.

To quote the Wiki article you linked (citations and hyperlinks removed):

"In 2001 the Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System recommended to the European Parliament that citizens of member states routinely use cryptography in their communications to protect their privacy, because economic espionage with ECHELON has been conducted by the US intelligence agencie".

There is at least one 'slippery slope' exposed when systems such as these are developed, wouldn't you say? But this is another topic (or is it?). Here's an additional quote from the CH report (to jog your memory, I'm sure):

In an Electronic Police State, every surveillance camera recording, every email you send, every Internet site you surf, every post you make, every check you write, every credit card swipe, every cell phone ping... are all criminal evidence, and they are held in searchable databases, for a long, long time. Whoever holds this evidence can make you look very, very bad whenever they care enough to do so. You can be prosecuted whenever they feel like it – the evidence is already in their database. Perhaps you trust that your ruler will only use his evidence archives to hurt bad people. Will you also trust his successor? Do you also trust all of his subordinates, every government worker and every policeman?

If you had carefully read both my reply and the report, you have seen that, according to CH, there is a broader definition of a police state implicit in their 'seventeen factors', many of which have little or nothing to do with electronic surveillance, such as Constitutional Protection (providing one exists and it is, in reality, upheld), Habeus Corpus and Enforcement Ability to cite a few. Obviously, the definition of a police state, according to them, has graduations of degree. This being the case, why do you suppose Australia was ranked as it was at #18?

Edited November 10, 2012 by MaxYakov

Chads · November 10, 2012

3 - 2 - 1 - here come the "hang 'em high" brigade.

Firstly your ideas (or as your risibly think "solutions") have no base, merit or effect on the problem.

Secondly - look to yourselves and ask "why" you repeatedly feel the need to post on these matters.

Do you sympathize with the pedophile?

MaxYakov · November 10, 2012

This article in the Sydney Morning Heral indicates that Potterton sent home an image of a 15 year old boy. I guess things were discovered after that.

"A Sydney man has been arrested in Thailand on paedophile-related charges after Australian Federal Police (AFP) allegedly intercepted photographs emailed to Australia.

Ian Potterton, 51, was detained by Thai authorities on Thursday before boarding an Australian-bound flight at Bangkok's International Airport after a short holiday in Thailand, a Thai police official from the Anti-Human Trafficking Division said.

On Friday, Potterton arrived at Crime Suppression Division Headquarters wearing blue jeans and a chequered blue shirt, his hand bandaged after spending a night in hospital receiving treatment for bronchitis and pneumonia.

Senior Thai police said the charges related to nude photographs of a 15-year-old Thai boy sent to Australia.

Advertisement

Potterton denies the charges, saying the pictures are of a "non-sexual nature" and he's the victim of over-zealous policing."

http://www.smh.com.a...1109-293j4.html

One would think that after the Bernie Ward incident ( http://en.wikipedia....iki/Bernie_Ward ) one would not even consider sending explicit pictures of even nude (that would be 'unfinished/unvarnished, etc', to you preverts) furniture via the internet (or any of several other methods).

Edited November 10, 2012 by MaxYakov

simple1 · November 10, 2012

@MaxYakov: The report you referenced is from Civil Liberties Australia and reviews the use of electronic monitoring and reporting tools used by governments and alledged abuse of around the world by law enforcement & intelligence organisations. A sophisticated example, that is known of, is “Echelon”; for detail go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

With reference to this topic, it is in my opinion, perfectly acceptable for law enforcement agencies to utilise electronic web monitoring capabilities to identify unlawful access by individuals of material such as child pornography and things such as chat sites for targeting and grooming under age individuals for sex. For instance, these capabilities have been reported in the media when arresting and charging pedophiles rings operating at the global level for sharing content; often as a commercial endeavour. For those who are inferring that this is Police State intrusion, I say to you ‘think again”

Thanks for the ECHELON Wiki link. It's nice to see fairly-shared, taxpayers' money hard at work, even though it was developed for intelligence-gathering, not specifically law enforcement. It is a little disconcerting, but not surprising, that it could have been (is?) being used for purposes of industrial and economic espionage.

To quote the Wiki article you linked (citations and hyperlinks removed):

"In 2001 the Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System recommended to the European Parliament that citizens of member states routinely use cryptography in their communications to protect their privacy, because economic espionage with ECHELON has been conducted by the US intelligence agencie".

There is at least one 'slippery slope' exposed when systems such as these are developed, wouldn't you say? But this is another topic (or is it?). Here's an additional quote from the CH report (to jog your memory, I'm sure):

In an Electronic Police State, every surveillance camera recording, every email you send, every Internet site you surf, every post you make, every check you write, every credit card swipe, every cell phone ping... are all criminal evidence, and they are held in searchable databases, for a long, long time. Whoever holds this evidence can make you look very, very bad whenever they care enough to do so. You can be prosecuted whenever they feel like it – the evidence is already in their database. Perhaps you trust that your ruler will only use his evidence archives to hurt bad people. Will you also trust his successor? Do you also trust all of his subordinates, every government worker and every policeman?

If you had carefully read both my reply and the report, you have seen that, according to CH, there is a broader definition of a police state implicit in their 'seventeen factors', many of which have little or nothing to do with electronic surveillance, such as Constitutional Protection (providing one exists and it is, in reality, upheld), Habeus Corpus and Enforcement Ability to cite a few. Obviously, the definition of a police state, according to them, has graduations of degree. This being the case, why do you suppose Australia was ranked as it was at #18?

No idea why Australia was ranked 18th, seems OTP to me as Australia does not have a national identity card system and those lobbying for implementation have been rejected on a number of occasions. However, if you go to CH (www.cryptohippie.com) who reference the Civil Liberties report you will see that they are a commercial organisation selling encryption software Basically a waste of money if you're involved in criminal activity as by law they have to provide the algorithms to security agencies, so who is scamming who?

Getting back to the topic the reason I referenced electronic monitoring was the allegation in the media that the accused was identified using this method. So to cut to the chase do you agree or disagree for law enforcement to use these tools?

Edited November 10, 2012 by simple1

timewilltell · November 10, 2012

Nice work AFP.

---------- What about giving some cdedit to the Thai police for their part

You must be new to Thai Visa.

Thai police seem to spend a great deal of time apprehending people who "slipped through the fingers" of police in other countries and in assisting police from other jurisdictions , as in this case, but of course it would kill some people to acknowledge that.

No I am a 5 yr member but only feel the need to reply to people that are constantly bashing thais and seem to be always able to come up with an excuse to run them down------- like I said on another post---lets pretend the Thai Police had nothing to do with it

Why do people have to be so polarised? Not giving credit to the Thai Police is not running them down. On the face of it most of the work was done by the Australian police who identitifed the man and gathered the evidence to give to the ThaI Police who arrested him by the simplest means possible - at the airport.

We do not know whether the Thai police made any effort to apprehend the man at the earliest possible opportunity given that presumably he has to be able to commit the crime first. If they did then great they did the job they are (poorly) paid for commendably. If they didn't or couldn't then they didn't do much so no need to praise them for the ordinary. It seems there are too many people on here who jump to assumptions either that the Thais are all stupid and useless or that they are wonderful and above any criticism. Both points of view are equally bigoted.

From the sketchy facts given here it seems pretty fair to me to assume most of the detective work was, on this occasion, done by the Australians who, on the information given, deserve the bulk of the praise. Had the Thai police not apprehended the man then .......

Grateful for small mercies and sad for the 7 year old who had to endure such unpleasantness to satisfy the predilictions of the law. Now had the Thai police managed to catch the guy at the beginning of his vile act to have sufficient evidence to satisy the law and at the same time protect the boy - THEN they would truly deserve praise for accomplishing something difficult.

GentlemanJim · November 10, 2012

3 - 2 - 1 - here come the "hang 'em high" brigade.Firstly your ideas (or as your risibly think "solutions") have no base, merit or effect on the problem.Secondly - look to yourselves and ask "why" you repeatedly feel the need to post on these matters.
Do you sympathize with the pedophile?

That is a blatantly outrageous response to the post by cowslip.Lets get a few things crystal clear here, and I refer back to one of 'The Blethers' little gems

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.To me, the answer is very clear

Nobody is censuring debate when they ask you to wait for the court to find people guilty. It is not debate of any description when people are voicing how they want to chop the balls of the Australian guy BEFORE the courts have dealt with it.

It may be of interest to some to know that the current Investigation into the pedophile activities of the late Jimmy Saville and his surviving accomplices is now in very grave danger of collapsing. A few days ago it was in the media, both printed AND on the BBC, that Lord McAlpine was part of the pedophile ring, he strongly denied the allegations but the hang em high club were out. Last night it seems the witness has made a full statement saying he was mistaken. He was shown a photograph to identify the individual and told it was Lord McAlpine, it turns out, it wasn't him at all. The BBC have issued an apology to Lord McAlpine, who is completely uninvolved with the alleged crimes. Had a few TV posters got their way, lord McAlpine would already have lost his testicles by the time the witness said 'OMG, no it wasn't him'!

The Blether, I have put your last sentence in bold. Just what do you mean? What is very clear?There is not one Psychologist would have anything to say about people requesting that the laid down procedures and laws of our CIVILISED society are adhered to before seeking violent retribution on an individual. However the same Psychologist would have much to say about individuals whose comments are 'lock him up till he rots', 'cut his balls off', 'chemically castrate him now', and my favourite from the last thread 'lock him in the stocks in the middle of town and leave him there until he dies and rots'. Those comments display just as sad an indictment on humanity as the sickness of pedophilia itself. So lets turn it back Blether, you are the one displaying extreme behaviour. They always say that 20% of aggressive homophobes are closet queens, so just why do we have to listen to the SAME people over and over again calling for peoples balls to be chopped off before the law has taken its course?

To me, the answer is very clear.

Re Lord McAlpine. Hot off the press! Read and be cautioned about the zealous nature of some of the replies on here.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-20277732

Edited November 10, 2012 by GentlemanJim

osiboy · November 10, 2012

if he is guilty , i hope he doesn't know the "old trick" of pleading guilty then changing his plea ,.... seems the best way out of a thai jail now , before it was just a simple bribe .

timewilltell · November 10, 2012

3 - 2 - 1 - here come the "hang 'em high" brigade.

Firstly your ideas (or as your risibly think "solutions") have no base, merit or effect on the problem.

Secondly - look to yourselves and ask "why" you repeatedly feel the need to post on these matters.

Do you sympathize with the pedophile?

How can you assume that? You have NO details of what the guy did or did not do. In the UK some 20 years ago people were afraid to bathe their children for fear of being branded paedophiles - there was interference in peoples ordinary lives by social service workers who were untrained, naive and ignorant yet given unbelievable powers. People were afraid!

I am not saying the guy is innocent of any crime, I simply do not know and neither do you. I do not believe all laws are right, some are not socially acceptable either, and some laws are downright unjust. A wise person makes their own decision based on full evidence and yet you have none. The Australian police will no doubt present the evidence to court which is the proper place for its examination by intelligent people. Unfotunately corruption in Thailand makes that process highly dubious.

Bluespunk · November 10, 2012

Be interesting to know how this all came about and how he was getting info to his computer back home and how police back home came to suspect such a thing and get a warrant. Maybe wife checked his email?

Maybe he was arrogant enough to post something online that was traced back to him.

Bluespunk · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

[font=helvetica,
arial, sans-serif]"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.[/font]

AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

.

Nicely put. Could not agree more.

theblether · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

[font=helvetica,
arial, sans-serif]"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.[/font]

AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

.
Nicely put. Could not agree more.

Well you would be wrong to agree. You'll find the same people on this thread immediately jumping to the defence of this arrested paedophile as on the other thread. Go through all of the paedophile threads and you'll see a pattern forming.

Do not be in any doubt that there is a cabal of paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and quite frankly some of the posts that you see are clearly from paedophiles.

GentlemanJim · November 10, 2012

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

.
Nicely put. Could not agree more.

Well you would be wrong to agree. You'll find the same people on this thread immediately jumping to the defence of this arrested paedophile as on the other thread. Go through all of the paedophile threads and you'll see a pattern forming.

Do not be in any doubt that there is a cabal of paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and quite frankly some of the posts that you see are clearly from paedophiles.

Well that is a pretty serious charge to make Blether. So, considering the gravity of the situation concerning pedophiles and the destruction they inflict on the lives of young children, just quote the posts and tell us who the pedophiles are on Thai Visa. The fact is that if you deem that you know, and dont back up your allegations with proof, then you become part of the chain of events should they commit further crimes on young children. So, quote the posts and out the 'obvious pedophiles'. I think we should be told.

theblether · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.
AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

The other thread was full of paedophile apologists, this thread is only a few pages old and already the apologists are out to play. You lost the plot on the other thread as you cannot stand the thought of being wrong, you were constantly warned as to your conduct on the thread, you had several posts removed, and now your starting again.

You're the same guy that attempted to start a campaign in connection with Oswald's three year old son, totally against TV rules, you harangued and pestered that thread re Oswald even after being told by his friends that things were in hand. You have a conceit of yourself, and in your case, I do seriously question your determination to defend paedophiles to the Nth degree.

Your ego is out of control........and anyone reading this thread and exchange should know that there is animosity between us as quite frankly, the way you conduct yourself on a lot of these threads is out of order.

MaxYakov · November 10, 2012

@MaxYakov: The report you referenced is from Civil Liberties Australia and reviews the use of electronic monitoring and reporting tools used by governments and alledged abuse of around the world by law enforcement & intelligence organisations. A sophisticated example, that is known of, is “Echelon”; for detail go to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ECHELON

With reference to this topic, it is in my opinion, perfectly acceptable for law enforcement agencies to utilise electronic web monitoring capabilities to identify unlawful access by individuals of material such as child pornography and things such as chat sites for targeting and grooming under age individuals for sex. For instance, these capabilities have been reported in the media when arresting and charging pedophiles rings operating at the global level for sharing content; often as a commercial endeavour. For those who are inferring that this is Police State intrusion, I say to you ‘think again”

Thanks for the ECHELON Wiki link. It's nice to see fairly-shared, taxpayers' money hard at work, even though it was developed for intelligence-gathering, not specifically law enforcement. It is a little disconcerting, but not surprising, that it could have been (is?) being used for purposes of industrial and economic espionage.

To quote the Wiki article you linked (citations and hyperlinks removed):

"In 2001 the Temporary Committee on the ECHELON Interception System recommended to the European Parliament that citizens of member states routinely use cryptography in their communications to protect their privacy, because economic espionage with ECHELON has been conducted by the US intelligence agencie".

There is at least one 'slippery slope' exposed when systems such as these are developed, wouldn't you say? But this is another topic (or is it?). Here's an additional quote from the CH report (to jog your memory, I'm sure):

In an Electronic Police State, every surveillance camera recording, every email you send, every Internet site you surf, every post you make, every check you write, every credit card swipe, every cell phone ping... are all criminal evidence, and they are held in searchable databases, for a long, long time. Whoever holds this evidence can make you look very, very bad whenever they care enough to do so. You can be prosecuted whenever they feel like it – the evidence is already in their database. Perhaps you trust that your ruler will only use his evidence archives to hurt bad people. Will you also trust his successor? Do you also trust all of his subordinates, every government worker and every policeman?

If you had carefully read both my reply and the report, you have seen that, according to CH, there is a broader definition of a police state implicit in their 'seventeen factors', many of which have little or nothing to do with electronic surveillance, such as Constitutional Protection (providing one exists and it is, in reality, upheld), Habeus Corpus and Enforcement Ability to cite a few. Obviously, the definition of a police state, according to them, has graduations of degree. This being the case, why do you suppose Australia was ranked as it was at #18?

No idea why Australia was ranked 18th, seems OTP to me as Australia does not have a national identity card system and those lobbying for implementation have been rejected on a number of occasions. However, if you go to CH (www.cryptohippie.com) who reference the Civil Liberties report you will see that they are a commercial organisation selling encryption software Basically a waste of money if you're involved in criminal activity as by law they have to provide the algorithms to security agencies, so who is scamming who?

Getting back to the topic the reason I referenced electronic monitoring was the allegation in the media that the accused was identified using this method. So to cut to the chase do you agree or disagree for law enforcement to use these tools?

Certainly not if the goal is 'To know everything': http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0405094/

GentlemanJim · November 10, 2012

There are far too many paedophile apologists on Thaivisa, and now we are starting to see them work in concert to try to nullify comments that don't suit them.

So.......let's look at these phrases from the OP.

"On Tuesday, 30 October 2012 the Australian Federal Police (AFP) conducted a search warrant at the man's residential address in Sydney seizing electronic devices. AFP officers subsequently referred information about the man's suspected activities to the Royal Thai Police, as information obtained identified the man was currently in Thailand," the AFP said.
AFP National Coordinator Child Protection Operations Todd Hunter congratulated the Royal Thai Police saying this result was a testament to strong international relationships.

This guy was not randomly picked up, there was a tip off from the AFP who I believe are not in the habit of searching people's homes without probable cause. No doubt some balloon will come along in a minute with some fanciful story about how corrupt the AFP are. I'm prepared to believe that the AFP have been working on intelligence received and acted properly in this case.

On the recent thread about the 93 year old paedophile I was ridiculed by paedophile apologists for pointing out that the Thai police and Australian police work in concert in Chiang Mai. I pointed out that you could guarantee that the Oz police in CM will have seen the evidence against this guy. The AFP have confirmed here that they have a strong relationship with the Thai police.

So now the paedophile apologists have the cheek to try to censure debate on these issues.........let's turn it back on you. Why do you feel the need to rush to the defence of arrested paedophiles on every thread?.

To me, the answer is very clear.

You are a liar! There was not one pedophile apologist as you term it on the other thread. Everybody was telling you to quit your 'hang em high chop his balls off', rants, until the courts had found him guilty or not, simple, and that message was explained to you quite clearly over and over again. Because someone has an alternative view to you when it comes to letting justice take its due and correct course, you label them pedophile apologists, a rather alarming trait don't you think. You are a very self righteous bigoted individual, and that is nowhere near a personal attack compared to you calling other members on here a pedophile apologist.

The other thread was full of paedophile apologists, this thread is only a few pages old and already the apologists are out to play. You lost the plot on the other thread as you cannot stand the thought of being wrong, you were constantly warned as to your conduct on the thread, you had several posts removed, and now your starting again.

You're the same guy that attempted to start a campaign in connection with Oswald's three year old son, totally against TV rules, you harangued and pestered that thread re Oswald even after being told by his friends that things were in hand. You have a conceit of yourself, and in your case, I do seriously question your determination to defend paedophiles to the Nth degree.

Your ego is out of control........and anyone reading this thread and exchange should know that there is animosity between us as quite frankly, the way you conduct yourself on a lot of these threads is out of order.

Please explain to me how asking for the law to take its course can be labeled as being a pedophile apologist? Find one single post, even one line in one post where I have defended a pedophile.

I think you will find it is you whose ego is out of control and who cannot bear to be wrong. And how many posts and cautions did you have on the last thread Blether before being given a holiday. Before you threw your teddies out the cot at a Mod who publicly disagreed with you and said 'you were off'?

Regarding the young child of Oswald, if you think I broke a TV rule because I asked everyone to pool resources and find a child that had been abducted by the family of 3 murderers, and was reported missing by police, whereabouts unknown, then I would break it again now. The fact that you are unaware of is that I had extensive PM's from the 'friend' of Oswald, who promised to update TV members when they had news, and you know what...he never did! So as far as many of us were concerned he was still missing. When the 'friend' finally came back and said things were in hand, everybody backed down, including me. I hope the young one is safe blether. The rule invoked was that TV members were not to encourage each other to take collective action or protest!! If you can apply that rule to looking for a missing child believed to be in danger then I feel very sorry for you.

If my behaviour is out of order then let everyone else be the judge of that Blether, or are you playing judge and jury again?

Edited November 10, 2012 by GentlemanJim

catweazle · November 10, 2012

As a father of four kids (2 grown ups and with the youngest boys being 2 and 7) I can just state here that I personally would kill the person who touches my boys causing them any harm mentally and/or physically before they can get it in front of a jury.

Hopefully the Aussie will receive proper treatment in jail, thus experiening first hand how it feels to get raped...

Over and out!

Edited November 10, 2012 by catweazle

GentlemanJim · November 10, 2012

As a father of four kids (2 grown ups and with the youngest boys being 2 and 7) I can just state here that I personally would kill the person who touches my boys causing them any harm mentally and/or physically before they can get it in front of a jury.

Hopefully the Aussie will receive proper treatment in jail, thus experiening first hand how it feels to get raped...

Over and out!

Catweazle

I have 4 children also and all of similar ages to you by the sounds of it. If I were to catch someone redhanded then I too would effect swift and merciless justice. The problem is on here is that people are calling for the same swift merciless justice when they have NO IDEA of the circumstances. You are asking for the Australian to be raped in jail, but you are going on hearsay. What if you were the elderly father of the man who said he was raped by Lord McAlpine, you would feel more than a bit stupid now having shot him to find out 48 hours later your son had completely incorrectly identified the man. Woops!

If you catch someone red handed there is no need for a judge and jury to determine guilt, hence those who admit guilt are simply sentenced without need of a jury. And in such circumstances you would be fully justified in delivering instant retribution..as I would.

chainarong · November 10, 2012

Something doesn't sound right - he's just returning home now after 2 weeks in Thailand, yet, they seized material (presumably with evidence) in Australia two weeks ago, presumably before the alleged offence had taken place. Thy guy was stupid enough to leave evidence of his planned activities? Thanks for stitching yourself up

Based on your post, I can't help wondering what kind of monitoring the AFP is doing on individuals. Was he individually targeted for some reason or was he part of a general monitoring effort? Can any of you Aussies comment on the state of the police state in, pardon the expression, down under?

I wonder if he was known to police and was being monitored? They would have been fully aware of his planned trip - most big government agencies seem to be linked. The CES kows when my mum travels overseas, for example. The can't arrest him on suspicion so he was allowed to travel overseas...it's all speculation of course so I hope more information comes to light.

He would have be monitiored for along period of time ,not just this trip, as someone said , they are watching

khunken · November 10, 2012

What puzzles me is why, if the AFP knew about him beforehand, he was allowed to travel to Thailand. If that is the case then they should be condemned for allowing the abuse of the 7-year old.

I, like Gentleman Jim, am absolutely disgusted at Blether's posts accusing those who do not jump on the 'hang him high' bandwaggon as pedophiles or pedophile supporters. This is a symptom of a sick mind.

Normal rules of justice allow for an accused to be presumed innocent until found guilty in a court of law. If he is guilty, he should be punished to the extent of the law. I have no time for pedophiles but a similar strong dislike for wild west 'justice'.

Buchholz · November 10, 2012

Since it's not been mentioned yet, for anyone interested, the arrested Australian is listed as IAN KNOK POTTERTION

(with the caveat that English names are often mangled in the Thai press)

Isara Post (Article in Thai) - Nov. 10, 2012

http://isarapost.net...hp?c=3&id=29253

As said, but not so mangled on this occasion

Ian Pottertion becomes Ian Potterton

But at least they post his photo which I've not noticed in other media sources

Ian Potterton, 51, was detained by Thai authorities on Thursday before boarding an Australian-bound flight at Bangkok's International Airport after a short holiday in Thailand, a Thai police official from the Anti-Human Trafficking Division said.

On Friday, Potterton arrived at Crime Suppression Division Headquarters wearing blue jeans and a chequered blue shirt, his hand bandaged after spending a night in hospital receiving treatment for bronchitis and pneumonia.

Edited November 10, 2012 by Buchholz

Buchholz · November 10, 2012

Aussie denies Thai child-porn claims

John Tanti, a superintendent and senior liaison officer for AFP Bangkok, said Potterton was facing charges related to Thai law.

"This is the culmination of a joint operation between Thai law enforcement, Royal Thai Police," Mr Tanti told AAP. He said the arrest and charges represented a warning to child sex offenders.

"This stands as an existing and future warning to would-be child sex offenders that our co-operation is extensive and we're both very determined to pursue people that would commit offences against children," Mr Tanti said.

Police intelligence units in Australia had allegedly uncovered the photos on the internet and the information was passed on to the AFP, who then contacted Thai authorities. "I don't want to talk to the specifics of this case because it might compromise other court matters that are happening here or elsewhere," Mr Tanti said.

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Australian Arrested And Charged With Sexually Abusing A 7-Year-Old Thai Boy

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