Bike Tracking Left When Handsfree

[Gweiloman]

I noticed recently that my bike (Versys) is tracking slightly left when both my hands are off the handlebars. Could this just be due to the camber of the road (I have not tried riding on the wrong side of the road to test) the opposite camber or do I need to get my forks or something else inspected?

Appreciate any comments and advise.

p/s: yes, I'm a fool, idiot, nincompoop, danger to other road users for riding with my hands off the handlebars etc etc. Sometimes, just sometimes, one needs to take the hands off for a couple of seconds to adjust the glove or helmet slightly.

[noob7]

Have you had a inspection, lately? Check the wheel track.

[Garry]

All number of possibilities. Worn front tyre, loose steering head bearings, worn front axle bearing, twisted forks in the triple clamps, as Noob7 says: tracking / wheel alignment.

[Gweiloman]

Front tyre less than 3,000 kms, bike only 6 months old so unlike to be worn bearings I think. Did my 6,000 km service just a couple of months ago. Could well be twisted forks or tracking / wheel alignment. Don't know how to check these myself so probably a trip to the workshop is in order.

[BSJ]

Front tyre less than 3,000 kms, bike only 6 months old so unlike to be worn bearings I think. Did my 6,000 km service just a couple of months ago. Could well be twisted forks or tracking / wheel alignment. Don't know how to check these myself so probably a trip to the workshop is in order.

At the factory Sumchai didn't clamp up the frame tubes properly in the jig before the robot welded it all together. Only takes .5 of a degree to alter the bike tracking.

[Gweiloman]

Front tyre less than 3,000 kms, bike only 6 months old so unlike to be worn bearings I think. Did my 6,000 km service just a couple of months ago. Could well be twisted forks or tracking / wheel alignment. Don't know how to check these myself so probably a trip to the workshop is in order.

At the factory Sumchai didn't clamp up the frame tubes properly in the jig before the robot welded it all together. Only takes .5 of a degree to alter the bike tracking.

You reckon Real Motorsports in Ramkhamheng would be able to take a look and "fix" the problem? If not, any recommendations for a good mechanic in Bangkok? Cheers

[Lickey]

Op, you mention that the front tyre has done 3k, and 2 months ago your bike had the 6k service, so does this mean youve already had a new tyre? and did the problems start after the new tyre or same from new?

Sorry if i appear to be a little confused here,

Some things you can check yourself,

Any/every tyre has a line round it, have a look, its just above the wheel rim, this line should be the same distance from the rim all the way round both sides, if not, incorrect fitment,

Next is to run your hand over the tread surface, can you feel some edges? try both ways, this suggests tracking or steering head bearings worn,

Easy thing to do is release all the pinchbolts on the fork yolks, hold the brake and push hard on the bars a few times, this should centralize everything, tighten bolts and test,

[Gweiloman]

Op, you mention that the front tyre has done 3k, and 2 months ago your bike had the 6k service, so does this mean youve already had a new tyre? and did the problems start after the new tyre or same from new?

Sorry if i appear to be a little confused here,

Some things you can check yourself,

Any/every tyre has a line round it, have a look, its just above the wheel rim, this line should be the same distance from the rim all the way round both sides, if not, incorrect fitment,

Next is to run your hand over the tread surface, can you feel some edges? try both ways, this suggests tracking or steering head bearings worn,

Easy thing to do is release all the pinchbolts on the fork yolks, hold the brake and push hard on the bars a few times, this should centralize everything, tighten bolts and test,

Thanks for your post, I will check tomorrow as you suggested.

Yes, I did my 6,000 service recently while still on stock tyres. On the stock tyres, I wouldn't even dream of taking my hands off the handlebars as the front starts wobbling at any speed below 40 km/h or so. More or less immediately after my service, I binned the stocks and put on Pirelli Angels. Did this at Rit Racing in Ratchadapisek (recommended by Kawa). It looked to me that the guys at Rit (father and son actually) knew their stuff. At any one time, there would be at least 2-3 other big bikes and bikers there getting one thing done or another.

[noob7]

Like you wrote, the camber of the road can be the reason, too. Check on some concrete road, if available. Mostly no camber, 'a sloop' to one side, only. Drive both directions, will tell you more, methinks.

Also your sitting position can be part of it.

But 3000k is almost half of the lifetime for the angel, or not? On big and power bike's in Europe, it is. But 650cc, it's possibly only about 25%. How does it look to you?

I understand your post, this 'problem' didn't start with the tire change. Or didn't you try 'freehand', till now?

If it started with the change to the 'Angels', check on the marks at the swing arm. maybe they aren't equal.

(Always my first guess, 1/2 a millimeter can change from straightforward to slightly left/right, 'freehand' easily. And I know, how many times I needed to tell 'em, that I trust Honda with the marks, but have not so much trust in their "but it looks....."!)

Or did you drive a longer time with wrong pressure?

The 'I refill your air pressure with checking by pushing the tire with two fingers'-method? Or with a lot less, as recommended?

It might be, that you 'reshaped' the tire flank, this way.

If you can't find/see a mechanical reason, I would check with more pressure, for a while. And trying, to 'shape/reshape' the flank, a bit, again.

I guess, you have on of these? To make sure, you always drive with the right/same pressure?

It's always 'fun', after an Oil change,...., and before leaving the garage, to check the air pressure and to drain the tires. Even a 'don't, it is fine' before they start working, get's overruled with the 2 finger method . Don't know about your Kawasaki garage or your tire dealer.

Good luck, to find the reason for the 'misbehavior' of your lady!

Edited November 10, 2012 by noob7

[smedly]

I'd go for front tyre wear or poorly adjusted chain leaving the rear out of alignment slightly

[Gweiloman]

Like you wrote, the camber of the road can be the reason, too. Check on some concrete road, if available. Mostly no camber, 'a sloop' to one side, only. Drive both directions, will tell you more, methinks.

Also your sitting position can be part of it.

But 3000k is almost half of the lifetime for the angel, or not? On big and power bike's in Europe, it is. But 650cc, it's possibly only about 25%. How does it look to you?

I understand your post, this 'problem' didn't start with the tire change. Or didn't you try 'freehand', till now?

If it started with the change to the 'Angels', check on the marks at the swing arm. maybe they aren't equal.

(Always my first guess, 1/2 a millimeter can change from straightforward to slightly left/right, 'freehand' easily. And I know, how many times I needed to tell 'em, that I trust Honda with the marks, but have not so much trust in their "but it looks....."!)

Or did you drive a longer time with wrong pressure?

The 'I refill your air pressure with checking by pushing the tire with two fingers'-method? Or with a lot less, as recommended?

It might be, that you 'reshaped' the tire flank, this way.

If you can't find/see a mechanical reason, I would check with more pressure, for a while. And trying, to 'shape/reshape' the flank, a bit, again.

I guess, you have on of these? To make sure, you always drive with the right/same pressure?

It's always 'fun', after an Oil change,...., and before leaving the garage, to check the air pressure and to drain the tires. Even a 'don't, it is fine' before they start working, get's overruled with the 2 finger method . Don't know about your Kawasaki garage or your tire dealer.

Good luck, to find the reason for the 'misbehavior' of your lady!

The Angels are rated to be good for over 10,000 km (and that's the rear wheel, the front should get a bit more, unless you're NeverSure). Pressure wise, I have it on 36 front and 40 rear as I'm usually riding 2 up with topbox and hard side panniers.

I gave up riding freehand while on the stocks as the wobble was definitely destabilising the bike and in that sense, fitting the Angels improved it dramatically. I don't think it's my riding position either - I tried leaning my weight and shifting my butt while freehandling and even though I managed to make the bike veer a bit to the right, it still wants to continue tracking left.

I'll check the marks on the swing arm as well. I'm starting to think that it's most likely a slightly twisted fork so I'm going to try loosening my triple clamps and recentering - wish me luck

[Gweiloman]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

[noob7]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

Check the marks again. And use your glasses, please!

That's, what makes your bike going left, the back tire is 'pointing to the right'!

Chain side 4.2 (I would say)

right side 4.6

But doesn't matter, it's simple not the same.

I would trust Kawa with this marks and correct it!

Have you had a inspection, lately? Check the wheel track.

Edited November 11, 2012 by noob7

[BSJ]

The rear wheel alignment is easy to correct. Before you rush out and buy a torque wrench just tighten it with a spanner for a test run.

Because we had very little money to spend when I was kid we had to check our own wheel alignment with a string line. You need 2 people. Get a long piece of string that will wrap around the rear tyre and end each side of the front tyre to just about the front most part of the tyre. Get the string as high as you can on the rear tyre without fouling anything. Keep the string tight. One person holds both string ends and brings them in toward the front tyre until the other person tells you the string is just touching at 2 points on each side of the rear tyre. Then the second person can move to the front and using a ruler measure both sides of the tire. The formula is Width of rear tyre - width of front tire and the remainder is half each side. If it's out by much the person at the front will see it. The front person needs steady hands.

I'd still loosen the front end as suggested....and tighten em again. Years ago I bought a new Kawasaki from the dealer and someone had forgotten to do up the pinch bolts on the fork tubes! Kind of scary when you brake and the tubes pop up!

Edited November 11, 2012 by BSJ

[Gweiloman]

The rear wheel alignment is easy to correct. Before you rush out and buy a torque wrench just tighten it with a spanner for a test run.

Because we had very little money to spend when I was kid we had to check our own wheel alignment with a string line. You need 2 people. Get a long piece of string that will wrap around the rear tyre and end each side of the front tyre to just about the front most part of the tyre. Get the string as high as you can on the rear tyre without fouling anything. Keep the string tight. One person holds both string ends and brings them in toward the front tyre until the other person tells you the string is just touching at 2 points on each side of the rear tyre. Then the second person can move to the front and using a ruler measure both sides of the tire. The formula is Width of rear tyre - width of front tire and the remainder is half each side. If it's out by much the person at the front will see it. The front person needs steady hands.

I'd still loosen the front end as suggested....and tighten em again. Years ago I bought a new Kawasaki from the dealer and someone had forgotten to do up the pinch bolts on the fork tubes! Kind of scary when you brake and the tubes pop up!

Test wheel alignment - you mean like this?

[smedly]

for gods sake just buy a spanner adjust the chain line the sliders up as close as you can get them - tighten bolt tighten sliders- job done

It doesn't have to me mm perfect

[Lickey]

How the chain runs is the best way for rear wheel alignment, before these marks were introduced years ago, the only way was to [with bike on center stand] lay down, turn the wheel by hand and watch the chain, turning backwards was the best way, watch the chain to see if there is any deviation from straight,

To make an adjustment you will need to loosen the wheel spindle bolt, as Smedly says, get a socket/spanner, when tightening, just put all your weight on it, you wont hurt anything internally [the wheel that is] fit the split pin and give it a run,

[Gweiloman]

Thanks for all the advise guys. Much appreciated. I have even the heavy duty tools (spanners etc) necessary and will give it a go later. Cheers

[pbeieio]

All number of possibilities. Worn front tyre, loose steering head bearings, worn front axle bearing, twisted forks in the triple clamps, as Noob7 says: tracking / wheel alignment.

Have you lent it to your brother in law? That might explain a few things!!

[Gweiloman]

All number of possibilities. Worn front tyre, loose steering head bearings, worn front axle bearing, twisted forks in the triple clamps, as Noob7 says: tracking / wheel alignment.

Have you lent it to your brother in law? That might explain a few things!!

Hahaha. No brother in law, thank goodness. I'm the only one that's ever ridden this bike, unless my 1 yr old has been secretly riding it while I've been asleep. It's most likely the misalignment issue as the "drift" is only slight but noticeable. I'll try to sort it out later today

[wantan]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

Edited November 12, 2012 by wantan

[Gweiloman]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

Great looking shop, I'm really tempted. Might get myself an air compressor while I'm at it

[smedly]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

what on earth does he need a torque wrench for ? as long as he's not using an extention 4ft long just tighten the thing as tight as, this is not rocket science

would you use a torque wrench on a car wheel nut

[Gweiloman]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

what on earth does he need a torque wrench for ? as long as he's not using an extention 4ft long just tighten the thing as tight as, this is not rocket science

would you use a torque wrench on a car wheel nut

As I understand it, nuts should be tightened up to a certain torque (in this case 108 Nm). Are you saying that this is not actually necessary, but just tighten it as much as possible?

[wantan]

what on earth does he need a torque wrench for ?

Just told him where to get one. Never said he needs one

As I understand it, nuts should be tightened up to a certain torque (in this case 108 Nm). Are you saying that this is not actually necessary, but just tighten it as much as possible?

He said you should tighten it as much as possible "but not use an extention 4ft long". I did that too before i bought a torque wrench. Sometimes a bit hard to open the nuts again, but mai pen rai

Edited November 12, 2012 by wantan

[noob7]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

what on earth does he need a torque wrench for ? as long as he's not using an extention 4ft long just tighten the thing as tight as, this is not rocket science

would you use a torque wrench on a car wheel nut

As I understand it, nuts should be tightened up to a certain torque (in this case 108 Nm). Are you saying that this is not actually necessary, but just tighten it as much as possible?

Do you think, a Thai mechanic is bothering himself with such thing? Tight, and a bit more tight, maybe a bit extra tight, on top. That's it, usually.

(You'll find that out during your try, to loosen it)

Edited November 12, 2012 by noob7

[Gweiloman]

what on earth does he need a torque wrench for ? as long as he's not using an extention 4ft long just tighten the thing as tight as, this is not rocket science

would you use a torque wrench on a car wheel nut

As I understand it, nuts should be tightened up to a certain torque (in this case 108 Nm). Are you saying that this is not actually necessary, but just tighten it as much as possible?

Do you think, a Thai mechanic is bothering himself with such thing? Tight, and a bit more tight, maybe a bit extra tight, on top. That's it, usually.

(You'll find that out during your try, to loosen it)

Well, I tried undoing the nut myself, not a hope in hell. Spanner just wasn't long enough to get the necessary leverage. So I thought, sod it, I'll take it to Showpow on Onnut. Wasn't far from where I lived anyway.

Balanced my wheels, only Thb 90 for each wheel, total Thb 180. Took two persons to undo the nut - one on the wrench, the other on the foot peg to weigh the bike down (no wonder I couldn't undo it myself). When they refitted the back wheel, they even took a pair of digital vernier calipers to the job. Can you believe that?

And finally, yes, they did use a torque wrench to tighten it up. Must have been an expensive tool as it merited it's own box, unlike the other loose bits and pieces.

So, does the bike still track left (or right) now? Don't know yet. Didn't think it was a good idea riding 2 up freehandling down soi Onnut / Lat Krabang during rush hour

[BSJ]

The rear wheel alignment is easy to correct. Before you rush out and buy a torque wrench just tighten it with a spanner for a test run.

Because we had very little money to spend when I was kid we had to check our own wheel alignment with a string line. You need 2 people. Get a long piece of string that will wrap around the rear tyre and end each side of the front tyre to just about the front most part of the tyre. Get the string as high as you can on the rear tyre without fouling anything. Keep the string tight. One person holds both string ends and brings them in toward the front tyre until the other person tells you the string is just touching at 2 points on each side of the rear tyre. Then the second person can move to the front and using a ruler measure both sides of the tire. The formula is Width of rear tyre - width of front tire and the remainder is half each side. If it's out by much the person at the front will see it. The front person needs steady hands.

I'd still loosen the front end as suggested....and tighten em again. Years ago I bought a new Kawasaki from the dealer and someone had forgotten to do up the pinch bolts on the fork tubes! Kind of scary when you brake and the tubes pop up!

Test wheel alignment - you mean like this?

So other people use the same....similar method.

[BSJ]

Blimey, I just checked the marks on the swingarm and they are well off. However, I need to buy a torque wrench and some spare cotter pins before adjusting. Any suggestions as to where I can purchase these items?

You can buy a torque wrench at Veerasiam-Hardware. Here location on Google-Map. But beware, a good torque wrench is expensive in Thailand. I guess its better to buy it in Farangland. I bought a click type torque wrench 20-100Nm (Blue-Point) at Veerasiam and paid around 7,000 Baht if i remember correctly. At eBay you get it cheaper if i remember correctly. Or buy some cheap chinese crap somewhere. But i wouldn't trust it that much

Snap-On tools are way to expensive for my tool box. I have good quality other brand spanners and shifters. Lucky Pattaya has quite a few engineering supply shops....which is strange seeing all the engineering needs industries are at Rayong and Chonburi!