Apparently No Need To Leave Country For Tourist Visa To Ed Visa Change

[lopburi3]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

[IMA_FARANG]

Good, this brings a chance to raise the topic of ED "visas".

A VISA gets you INTO Thailand, an ED extension of that 90 day non immigrant O visa KEEPS you here in Thaland.

You can get that 90 day single entry non immogrant O visa from a Thai consulate in places like Laos, Malaysia, Cambodia, etc.

When you get one and enter Thailand that allows you to stay for 90 days and your pasport is stamped for a "permitted to stay" date of 90 days and that VISA is good for ONE single entry,

Now, you sign a contract with a language school to study Thai...let's say for a 6 month study course.

You should get a contract from that officially authorised school. The school shoud be authorised and approved as a Thai language school by the Thai government.

Since the school is legally approved by the Thai authofities, and you have that 6 month conract, you can EXTEND that 90 day single entry VISA that allowed you to enter Thailand. In the case given here, your contract with that authorised school allows you to get an extension of your 90 day single entry visa until that 6 month contract expires.

You need to understand that the original 90 day visa you obtained outside of Thailand and the extension you recieved from immigration in Thailand are two different things.

Remember a visa gets you INTO Thailand, a valid contract to study Thai from a legal language school gets you the extension to keep you here,

Now, some language schools are saying their "course" is only 90 days. They tell you to go to another country to get a single entry visa, which you do.

When you enter Thailand with that single entry non immigrant O visa the visa is for one single entry only....and is good for that 90 day entry.

That's why you can't EXTEND that single entry visa....you've already used that single entry and the school did not give or need to give you a contract to apply for an extension of stay because your contract or language course agreement was only for 90 days anyhow.

To cut through all the explanations let's just say this.

Your visa, if it is for a single entry only, is good for that single entry and gets you the 90 day entry stay,

Your school contract or agreement allows you to EXTEND that visa for the term of the course.

You need to be very careful about what specifically your school contract or agreement actually says.

You can get an extension legally with the correct paperwork from an authorised school in Thailand without leaving the country.

That's what your school agreement does.

But a single entry visa is still good for a single entry only and an extension in country won't allow you to re-use that single entry visa....it just allows you to extend that original visa for the purpose of attending a Thai language school.

Now, if you DO get a multi entry visa good for one year from one of those neighboring countries that's something entirely different from a single entry visa.

But a multi entry visa good for one year is a very different thing from a single entry visa.

Edited November 12, 2012 by IMA_FARANG

[lemoncake]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

May well be true, though i have never heard of anyone getting into any kind of trouble with a real stamp from immigration. Plenty of cases having fake stamps, but none so far with real stamps from immigration..

No different to people on retirement visa who do not have the money(to show in their bank) use law firms to deposit money for them to get an extension.

[IMA_FARANG]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

--------------

Lopburi3 is absolutely correct here.

You, are resposible for your visa stamps.

If you obtained one by false information, the agency is not responsible.

You are, because it's your passport.

If you are caught with what turns out to be an illegally obtained visa in YOUR passport it will be regarded as YOUR illegal action because it is YOUR passport,

The differnce between the 2500 baht doing it legally and the 20000 baht you paid was, to put it nicely, for the bribe to get you a illegal stamp.

Don't fool yourself, that was why you paid that much.

The agency did nothing illegal because as Thais they do not need a visa to stay in Thailand and they can't be deported or fined....but YOU can.

[disagree]

Oh very interesting point IMA_FARANG. So it would be beneficial to be on a multiple-entry visa in case you want to leave the country and re-enter within, let's say, a 1 year Thai language course?

If you're just here on a visa on arrival which has been converted to an ED VISA, does that mean you can't leave the country for a year ( or 3 months or whatever period )?

[ericthai]

incorrect, for 35000-45000 (depending on the law firm or friends you use), one can be issued in Thailand without having to leave the country or provide anything but your passport

That might be the case but exactly how valid are these? My local immigration office will do likewise for a large fee, but this is contrary to their own regulations and an individual would be leaving themselves open to potential problems down the line. I'd say it's a gamble and for that sum of money would rather have a couple of days in KL or wherever, and get a real ED visa there.

Just as valid as any other visa, as it is issued by immigration with an official immigration stamp and receipt. While during the check at some point, immigration can see the irregularity, i have serious doubts they would bring it up as they are well aware, this visa made a nice donation to the captain of issuing office

Guess you have not been in Thailand long. Check back about say 10-12 years ago. Allot of expats got in trouble, paid big fines and was deported as they had fake visa stamps. The stamps were copies used by a group of Thai and Malay immigration officers working with several bars, visa runs places where the passports were taken to this group stamped and returned. All of these people thought they we getting real stamps when they were not. Of course the officers caught were moved to an inactive position as which is typical in Thailand. Get caught doing something wrong you get moved.

You guys think you can just pay big money to lawyer to immigration office to get around the rules and think it is legal, don't bet on it. overstays, yes not a big deal for a few days, but as advised if you are caught on the street and you don't have the cash to take care of things or happen to run into an actual officer following the rules you will go to immigration jail.

However in my 12 years of living in Thailand I was only asked for my passport maybe 2 times and both times only had my Thai driver license on me which was accepted. You should not be making statements on here that being illegal in Thailand is ok and you can pay your way out with no issues. This is not play land.

[merijn]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

May well be true, though i have never heard of anyone getting into any kind of trouble with a real stamp from immigration. Plenty of cases having fake stamps, but none so far with real stamps from immigration..

No different to people on retirement visa who do not have the money(to show in their bank) use law firms to deposit money for them to get an extension.

Tell that to the +/- 200 people who lost their passport a few years ago in Phuket.

During those days you could get a exit and entry stamp from the Patong Immigration officer.

All officials stamps as he went to his buddy on the airport.

One day the officer was arrested and all passports confiscated.

Every farang had to go to Bangkok and underwrite a paper that they had no knowledge of doing anything wrong before they received back their passport.

I know this is not the same as the ED change but I just like to mention that receiving a official stamp from an immigration officer/office does not mean that it is official.

Same with the visa company’s which can provide visas for a fee this also does not mean that their official immigration stamps are correct and valid.

Edited November 12, 2012 by merijn

[lemoncake]

incorrect, for 35000-45000 (depending on the law firm or friends you use), one can be issued in Thailand without having to leave the country or provide anything but your passport

That might be the case but exactly how valid are these? My local immigration office will do likewise for a large fee, but this is contrary to their own regulations and an individual would be leaving themselves open to potential problems down the line. I'd say it's a gamble and for that sum of money would rather have a couple of days in KL or wherever, and get a real ED visa there.

Just as valid as any other visa, as it is issued by immigration with an official immigration stamp and receipt. While during the check at some point, immigration can see the irregularity, i have serious doubts they would bring it up as they are well aware, this visa made a nice donation to the captain of issuing office

Guess you have not been in Thailand long. Check back about say 10-12 years ago. Allot of expats got in trouble, paid big fines and was deported as they had fake visa stamps. The stamps were copies used by a group of Thai and Malay immigration officers working with several bars, visa runs places where the passports were taken to this group stamped and returned. All of these people thought they we getting real stamps when they were not. Of course the officers caught were moved to an inactive position as which is typical in Thailand. Get caught doing something wrong you get moved.

You guys think you can just pay big money to lawyer to immigration office to get around the rules and think it is legal, don't bet on it. overstays, yes not a big deal for a few days, but as advised if you are caught on the street and you don't have the cash to take care of things or happen to run into an actual officer following the rules you will go to immigration jail.

However in my 12 years of living in Thailand I was only asked for my passport maybe 2 times and both times only had my Thai driver license on me which was accepted. You should not be making statements on here that being illegal in Thailand is ok and you can pay your way out with no issues. This is not play land.

reading is the key

it is not a fake stamp, it is an official stamp/visa from immigration office with official receipt. and you right, i have not been here long enough, nor do i speak fluent thai as no doubt you do

Left the country only 5 times in the 2 years i had the visa and got around 10 residence certificates with no problem, then changed to non b, work permit with no hassles at all

But you right, I am still a newbie on my 14th year

[lemoncake]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

May well be true, though i have never heard of anyone getting into any kind of trouble with a real stamp from immigration. Plenty of cases having fake stamps, but none so far with real stamps from immigration..

No different to people on retirement visa who do not have the money(to show in their bank) use law firms to deposit money for them to get an extension.

Tell that to the +/- 200 people who lost their passport a few years ago in Phuket.

During those days you could get a exit and entry stamp from the Patong Immigration officer.

All officials stamps as he went to his buddy on the airport.

One day the officer was arrested and all passports confiscated.

Every farang had to go to Bangkok and underwrite a paper that they had no knowledge of doing anything wrong before they received back their passport.

I know this is not the same as the ED change but I just like to mention that receiving a official stamp from an immigration officer/office does not mean that it is official.

Same with the visa company’s which can provide visas for a fee this also does not mean that their official immigration stamps are correct and valid.

In this case, every single visa or extension issued can be questioned, what's the difference?

[merijn]

Getting such a visa can be very illegal - only if you meet the requirements and correct procedures were followed would it be legal. This third party service used to be used often and often stamps were less than legal; even if official stamp (false in some cases) and people did end up in trouble "I bought this from a legal sounding company", "why am I in being persecuted", "why is the company not libel" .

May well be true, though i have never heard of anyone getting into any kind of trouble with a real stamp from immigration. Plenty of cases having fake stamps, but none so far with real stamps from immigration..

No different to people on retirement visa who do not have the money(to show in their bank) use law firms to deposit money for them to get an extension.

Tell that to the +/- 200 people who lost their passport a few years ago in Phuket.

During those days you could get a exit and entry stamp from the Patong Immigration officer.

All officials stamps as he went to his buddy on the airport.

One day the officer was arrested and all passports confiscated.

Every farang had to go to Bangkok and underwrite a paper that they had no knowledge of doing anything wrong before they received back their passport.

I know this is not the same as the ED change but I just like to mention that receiving a official stamp from an immigration officer/office does not mean that it is official.

Same with the visa company’s which can provide visas for a fee this also does not mean that their official immigration stamps are correct and valid.

In this case, every single visa or extension issued can be questioned, what's the difference?

Only if the stamp is obtained without the correct paperwork or with false paperwork.

It is the responsibility of the passport holder to supply the correct paperwork.

[lemoncake]

Only if the stamp is obtained without the correct paperwork or with false paperwork.

It is the responsibility of the passport holder to supply the correct paperwork.

LOL, Now you really making me laugh

Next you will be posting that people make copies of paperwork before handing it over to immigration for processing.

If stamp is obtained with false paperwork it is the duty of immigration officer to spot that.

But anyhow, you can stick to whatever method rocks your boat and makes you sleep well at night, after all i am just a newbie,

[ignis]

Back to the 1st Post of this Topic.........

Because i have no idea, and interested to know, I picked at random a Language school in Bangkok and phoned them yesterday, the 3rd person understood my question and what was correct.......... or should I say there idea or take on the matter...

He said, If you hold a Non Imm Visa and apply to a school for an ED Visa, you can in fact change your Non Imm Visa to a ED Extension at Immigration........... Re why do schools say you must leave Thailand to get a ED Visa, he said that most people that go to school do not have a Non Imm Visa, most are on VOA or TR Visa., which he said as far as he knows they must go out to get a non Imm Visa..

So guess unless someone says/ can prove this is what did happen to them, this is only what one School states can be done..

[disagree]

Back to the 1st Post of this Topic.........

Because i have no idea, and interested to know, I picked at random a Language school in Bangkok and phoned them yesterday, the 3rd person understood my question and what was correct.......... or should I say there idea or take on the matter...

He said, If you hold a Non Imm Visa and apply to a school for an ED Visa, you can in fact change your Non Imm Visa to a ED Extension at Immigration........... Re why do schools say you must leave Thailand to get a ED Visa, he said that most people that go to school do not have a Non Imm Visa, most are on VOA or TR Visa., which he said as far as he knows they must go out to get a non Imm Visa..

So guess unless someone says/ can prove this is what did happen to them, this is only what one School states can be done..

I had a regular 60-day tourist visa in my passport, which I just extended to 30 days. The ladies said it's possible with it. But I am also curious to hear about others who've done it.

And ignis, bravo for taking initiative

Edited November 13, 2012 by disagree

[ubonjoe]

If you have a course of study that allows for a 1 year extension of stay it may be possible to do a conversion to an ED visa from a tourist visa at some immigration offices.

Getting an extension of stay based upon study using an entry from a non immigrant visa other than an ED visa is not a conversion or change of visa status. All that is required for an extension is a non immigrant visa it does not matter what catagory it is.

[Maestro]

I got tired of this off-topic talk about requirements for permanent residency and deleted the post that started it and all replies to it.

[TCA]

Back on topic, another forum member has posted about failing in his/her attempt to do exactly what the OP was talking about: tourist visa changed to ED visa in country:

Maybe the OP should direct the above poster BlueLi to the immigration office he visited (assuming it's not the same one - I don't know BKK), so we can see if this is indeed possible? A perfect test case potentially.

Edited November 17, 2012 by TCA

[disagree]

Thanks TCA, I have commented on his thread.

Does anyone know if this procedure of extension would apply for a VOE ( Visa on Arrival ) as well, or if there has to be a valid visa in your passport ( such as 60 days tourist visa etc )?

[Mario2008]

Thanks TCA, I have commented on his thread.

Does anyone know if this procedure of extension would apply for a VOE ( Visa on Arrival ) as well, or if there has to be a valid visa in your passport ( such as 60 days tourist visa etc )?

It is a conversion which can be done on both a tourist visa and a visa exempt entry, and maybe a visa on arrival as wel if you are very quick in applying.

The only difference is the form you need to use for applying for the conversion, with not much difference between the 2 different forms.

[Fgis]

Conversion is not normally done except for full time university type study and most people are talking about part time language study. It may also make a difference what immigration office you are talking about.

If you are stopped on overstay by normal police you will likely go to jail/court/fined and be deported.

Hello,

It seems to now be accepted to get an ED visa (maybe it's conversion ?) inside Thailand for people who have a tourist visa. People learning at a standard Thai language school.

I know people who just did it, and all they had to do is pay a bit more.

Do you know if the trend is widely spread now ?

Thanks.

[lopburi3]

No and any information/details on where, what you mean by standard Thai language school (full time/part time/private/university) and cost would be most welcome. Things do have a way of changing but so far have not seen much more than occasional reporting of such.

[disagree]

Just made a call to Chaeng Watthana. They explained that it's in the reasoning of the immigration worker if she will permit the extension of VOA/Tourist visa to ED Visa. So make sure you bring a charming Thai with you.