P A D Gives Its Supporters Ok To Join Pitak Siam Rally On 24Th In Bangkok

[hanuman2543]

It is really frightening and disappointing how many TV members support undemocratic conduct to overthrow a democratically, elected government. Would you do the same in your homecountry? Looks like brainwashing works really good.

Edited November 12, 2012 by hanuman2543

[hellodolly]

I am an avid supporter of increased education to lift people from poverty, illiteracy and ignorance. But somehow, Thida opening "red shirt schools" upcountry doesn't fill me with confidence that these goals will be achieved - for that matter, even that they will be aimed for.

If I remember correctly and I do Red Shirt schools were started to teach people what democracy was according to the red shirts who at the time were trying to over throw the Thai legally elected government by armed violence. She sounds more like some of the Islam schools that only teach how to read the Koran.

Red shirts have no interest in educating them selves. Schools for that purpose will be done by the state and private organizations mostly international one's.

If Thida really wanted to help she would try to get electricity into the two thousand schools who do not have it. I know that is the governments job. But the government is not really that interested in educating their loyal supporters. More money in uneducated supporters than educated ones. Educated ones may see them for what they are and switch allegiance.

[Thai at Heart]

So, let's get this straight: a party gets voted into office with a majority of votes. Another party doesn't like that and stages rallies, calling for a coup, which is not only criminal, but also stupid!

In an effort to help you to get it straight, the Pitak Siam is not a political party.

Thanks for that useful clarification.Here is a photo of some Pitak Siam supporters, complete with communist beret badges, which will give a flavour of the group's quality.

Sometimes it is absolutely impossible to work out which types of groups should be allied with which groups. Or, groups of supposedly unified ideology seem to support all sides. Why on earth would Thai communists be in favour of a military coup? Bizarre

[Buchholz]

So, let's get this straight: a party gets voted into office with a majority of votes. Another party doesn't like that and stages rallies, calling for a coup, which is not only criminal, but also stupid!

In an effort to help you to get it straight, the Pitak Siam is not a political party.

"Party" as in "group"

The haze was created by your saying a party was voted into office (as in a political party), but your second use of party is meant to stand for a group.

Thank you for clarifying your statements.

[bigbamboo]

"She said she would be busy opening red-shirt schools upcountry later this month."

I think that was the most disturbing line in this article.

Doesn't bode well for reconciliation, does it?

[jayboy]

So, let's get this straight: a party gets voted into office with a majority of votes. Another party doesn't like that and stages rallies, calling for a coup, which is not only criminal, but also stupid!

In an effort to help you to get it straight, the Pitak Siam is not a political party.

Thanks for that useful clarification.Here is a photo of some Pitak Siam supporters, complete with communist beret badges, which will give a flavour of the group's quality.

Although your post has nothing to do with correcting DocN's misstatement erroneously attributing a political party to the protest group, the communists depicted above should not to be confused with communist Red Shirt supporters and leaders, complete with automatic weapons and communist beret badges, as well as Red Shirt publications which will give a flavor of the group's quality.

.

I don't think there was any confusion which rally those grizzled old communists were attending.A genuinely useful response would have been to explain to the unenlightened what on earth did they think they were doing at a fascist assembly because the mental gymnastics involved are astonishing.But no we are instead treated to a repeat viewing of the tired old redshirts are communists propaganda.Yawn.

[bigbamboo]

It is really frightening and disappointing how many TV members support undemocratic conduct to overthrow a democratically, elected government. Would you do the same in your homecountry? Looks like brainwashing works really good.

You might be surprised how many in the UK would right now!

[Buchholz]

Sometimes it is absolutely impossible to work out which types of groups should be allied with which groups. Or, groups of supposedly unified ideology seem to support all sides. Why on earth would Thai communists be in favour of a military coup? Bizarre

equally bizarre for communists to be in favor of a group purporting to support democracy

.

[Buchholz]

In an effort to help you to get it straight, the Pitak Siam is not a political party.

Thanks for that useful clarification.Here is a photo of some Pitak Siam supporters, complete with communist beret badges, which will give a flavour of the group's quality.

Although your post has nothing to do with correcting DocN's misstatement erroneously attributing a political party to the protest group, the communists depicted above should not to be confused with communist Red Shirt supporters and leaders, complete with automatic weapons and communist beret badges, as well as Red Shirt publications which will give a flavor of the group's quality.

.

I don't think there was any confusion which rally those grizzled old communists were attending.A genuinely useful response would have been to explain to the unenlightened what on earth did they think they were doing at a fascist assembly because the mental gymnastics involved are astonishing.But no we are instead treated to a repeat viewing of the tired old redshirts are communists propaganda.Yawn.

I wasn't attempting to create any confusion over which cause the grizzled old communists were supporting.

I was just showing the communists back both, your so-called fascist movement AND the so-called democracy movement.

Instead, we are treated to your usual tired old misrepresentations of other peoples' posts. Big yawn.

.

[MrSlatersParrot]

and let's be clear.

The old general (and the group are all old) wants a coup and then wants to close the country for 5 years.

Pol Pottyism.

[hellodolly]

I guess the more people showing dissent may get the army to go ahead with a coup. Thailand can't cope much more with the red govt and its scams and corruption and out of control spending to line the pockets of the politicians and their clans. It may not be ideal but it has to be better that the present situation as I doubt Thailand can handle a full term of these arrogant imbeciles. I wonder what happened to governance by the people for the people.

Yes, good idea. We should really, finally, and once for all, have some deeply honest people DO something for the country and get rid of the government that was chosen by the people, once again. These "people" are so stupid that they always elect the same party. These "people" must be out of their mind. Reaaaally brainless. Yeah yeah sure ! There is no way sound people would do that over and over again. They must be soooooo stupid. Certainly not capable of chosing their leaders. And which leaders, look ! Only imbeciles, while on the "other side" there are so many profoundly honest, highly educated, capable and inteligent politicians they could choose from. And these would be the ones who would really work for the people. But no ! These idiots aaaaaalways go for the same corrupt and stupid politicians. How bad.

Let's call the army, and let's stage a coup. That is better. Not ideal, but so much better, and those ugly stinky reds will be out, finally. Sorry, not "finally", but rahter "once more".

No need for elected government in these conditions. Right, smart people don't call for elections, they call for one more coup. Everything back to normal, with another government that will be capable, honest, respectful of the people (well part of it at least), and the economy will explode and everyone will be rich and happy. Super cool. When is the coup again?

We should of course not think about waiting for the next election. Why should we? The reds will win anyway, so better bring the shit again in the whole system and fix it "our way". Yeah yeah, well, it's not "ideal" but with the military and our cherished yellows everything will be so much better. The people will be taken care of in a lovely manner again. After the military coup the "people" will finally have a government working for the people. Not really chosen by the people, but we will pretend it, no problem. Yeaaaaaaah, happiness again for everyone.

I love that plan. Sooooo cool. Really. And smart too, I must admit. It makes me think of Rambo. Such a nice character. Love it.

At the same time some people would welcome a second coup to get rid of all the cheap expats who squat this forum, as well as the ageing ones, bitter ones, farang imbeciles (there must be some too, no? But not in such a great number as in Thailand apparently, since all our western governments are so great), ... farangs who speak nonsense, etc...

We should not blame people calling for such a coup either, right? It's democracy, right? Ok, cool then. I go for the second coup !

The only way a coup would work is if the coup leaders were honest them selves and stayed in power long enough to catch prosecute and serve sentence on the corrupt members of the government. All the way from a file clerk to the PM and have them all banned from politics or civil service for life.

This would give Thailand a chance to really advance.

But ain't going to happen. All a coup would do is take over and leave most of the corrupt figures in place where they can continue their corruption or replace them with some one who would continue the corruption. Yes they would get rid of a bad apple like they did with Thaksin but they would solve no other problems.

[Pimay1]

It is really frightening and disappointing how many TV members support undemocratic conduct to overthrow a democratically, elected government. Would you do the same in your homecountry? Looks like brainwashing works really good.

You might be surprised how many in the UK would right now!

And probably a bigger percentage of the population in the US also.

[jonclark]

Lets do away with all this talk of coups - I'm surprised at how readily this word is banded around with little thought for the long term consequences.

This group has the right to demonstrate and if they pull 1 million people (and that's a big if) that success shouldn't be hijacked by the coupist / anti coupist brigade, but it should serve as a timely reminder to the government that they are failing to meet the aspirations of large sections of society and need to act in a mature and appropriate manner.

Calling for coups negates and distracts from the real message a 1 million man march would slam home to the government. Namely - We ain't happy, get you act together and quickly.

That distraction (the coup) is exactly the message PTP wants to be heard as it continues the distraction from their failures.

[jayboy]

I wasn't attempting to create any confusion over which cause the grizzled old communists were supporting.

I was just showing the communists back both, your so-called fascist movement AND the so-called democracy movement.

Instead, we are treated to your usual tired old misrepresentations of other peoples' posts. Big yawn.

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

[Thai at Heart]

Sometimes it is absolutely impossible to work out which types of groups should be allied with which groups. Or, groups of supposedly unified ideology seem to support all sides. Why on earth would Thai communists be in favour of a military coup? Bizarre

equally bizarre for communists to be in favor of a group purporting to support democracy

.

Indeed, it just shows how utterly confused the political landscape gets in this country. I can understand that the communists might not be in favour of either of the main political parties, but to be at a protest supporting a military coup, just goes beyond any political understanding. Maybe they just wanted a picnic at the races.

[whybother]

I wasn't attempting to create any confusion over which cause the grizzled old communists were supporting.

I was just showing the communists back both, your so-called fascist movement AND the so-called democracy movement.

Instead, we are treated to your usual tired old misrepresentations of other peoples' posts. Big yawn.

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

Could I venture an explanation? ... There are a lot of people in Thailand that have no understanding what a little green hat with a red star means ... and these people wear them to different rallies.

[Halion]

Slow learning curve, This country has been getting more than their fingers burnt for decades with little or no improvement and it will never change unless a few fundemental changes are implemented.

The rule of law must be implemented and enforced in a just and transparent manner with no one being allowed to be beyond judical process regardless of status wealthy or position.

The Military should be removed from the political equation or Thailand will remain a bannana republic. Outside Communism there is no country in the world than can develop or has developed where the military has been active in government. They do not have a part to play in local politics. Thailand over the past 30 years has had more coups or threatened coups than it has temples. The military are part of the problem and never a solution in politics or business for that mater.

I fully believe that the toxic regieme of Thaksin had to be brought down but a military coup was not the medium to be used as testified by the condition that still prevail today.

It all boils down to the installation and just implementation of law and order and the garnering of a belief within all Thais that all are equal under law. However, such change would also require an dilgent, efficient and accountable constabulary as they too are subject to the same laws.

Perhaps a bridge too far but without such change no one is going anywhere.

[MrSlatersParrot]

Comparing those attending the Pitak rally compared with the village heads rally at the Royal Plaza whose number was estimated at 7000 I would suggest that around half that number attended at the race track.

About the village heads worth reading this article.

Another anti-democratic group.

http://www.prachatai...glish/node/3426

[Buchholz]

Comparing those attending the Pitak rally compared with the village heads rally at the Royal Plaza whose number was estimated at 7000 I would suggest that around half that number attended at the race track.

You might try to suggest it, but it contradicts with what those that actually attended said.

.

[HUAHIN62]

Lets hope that there will be no attempt to a coup, because I believe that this time the result of such an attempt could be a disaster. Most of the foot soldiers in the army come from poor families which are the supporters of PTP. They came out of the barracks in 2006 because TS was showing disrespect to the RTA. PTP have not shown any disrespect to RTA. This time the soldiers may not come out to stage a coup or there could be a split in the armed force if a coup is attempted. I think the RTA know this and denounced the calls for a coup. If a civil coup is attempted the Reds can match anyones numbers on the streets and it will leave the army in the middle of a civil unrest situation they aren't equiped to handle.

So let us give demoracy a chance to work.

[SeaVisionBurma]

Post flaming another member removed. Lets keep this discussion mature and civil, okay?

...and another commenting on moderation removed. Next step can be a holiday.

[15Peter20]

I wasn't attempting to create any confusion over which cause the grizzled old communists were supporting.

I was just showing the communists back both, your so-called fascist movement AND the so-called democracy movement.

Instead, we are treated to your usual tired old misrepresentations of other peoples' posts. Big yawn.

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

Could I venture an explanation? ... There are a lot of people in Thailand that have no understanding what a little green hat with a red star means ... and these people wear them to different rallies.

I quite agree, but were you venturing that explanation when only red-shirted bearers of communist insignia were pictured on TV? I think a lot of posters here were alive during the era when communism was considered a realistic global threat, before it's main sponsors either softened their implementation of it (China) or completely abandoned it (Russia), but still can't get that fear out of their heads.

I believe it would be helpful if - taking your explanation as evidence - posters understood that the introduction of the kind of communism present during the cold war is pretty far from any of these groups' plans. More authoritarian rule than the present day perhaps, but not out and out communism in my opinion.

Fear not, brave keyboard warriors. Not only are the reds not under your beds, they're not even in the factories that made them.

[jcw]

Will This be the Red Shirt School flag?

I hope that is not serous, but there have been many Nazi Germany reference in Thailand recently so could be true realistically.

What are these Red Schools? This is a serous question, please avoid going on a political rant/rave.

Image taken in Northern Thailand 13 months ago. Are these possible red school recruits?

Students dressed in Red at a school in Northern Thailand in 2011 with a hail Hitler salute to an, invisible "dear Leader".

http://www.telegraph...1.html?image=36

Edited November 12, 2012 by jcw

[15Peter20]

Will This be the Red Shirt School flag?

I hope that is not serous, but there have been many Nazi Germany reference in Thailand recently so could be true realistically.

What are these Red Schools? This is a serous question, please avoid going on a political rant/rave.

Image taken in Northern Thailand 13 months ago. Are these possible red school recruits?

Students dressed in Red at a school in Northern Thailand in 2011 with a hail Hitler salute to an, invisible "dear Leader".

http://www.telegraph...1.html?image=36

That is not a 'red school'.

[rubl]

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

So, having Ms. Thida and her husband Dr. weng as UDD leaders is OK because that isn't an ideological inconsistency with hardliners seeking a new home in another anti-democratic controlling ideology.

I must admit to a certain level of confusion

[OzMick]

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

So, having Ms. Thida and her husband Dr. weng as UDD leaders is OK because that isn't an ideological inconsistency with hardliners seeking a new home in another anti-democratic controlling ideology.

I must admit to a certain level of confusion

I think the confusion is someone else's - a phenomenon that occurs when rather obvious facts are inconvenient to the argument and mindset.

[jayboy]

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

So, having Ms. Thida and her husband Dr. weng as UDD leaders is OK because that isn't an ideological inconsistency with hardliners seeking a new home in another anti-democratic controlling ideology.

I must admit to a certain level of confusion

You miss my point.It's neither OK nor the opposite, simply understandable.The presence of communists at Siam Pitak rally is simply inexplicable.That's why I sought a reasonable explanation not an argument

[OzMick]

Then so be it. If that is the route Thailand has chosen, then that is the path it must travel. Maybe the people will need to experience these extremes, these failures, the despair it causes in order to become politically wise and mature in the future.

To use a simple analogy

The Thai electorate are kinda like young inexperienced children and a box of matches. Their elders are warning against them about the dangers of playing with matches (PTP). It appears that the electorate need to get burnt before they take those warnings seriously.

The charred fingers will make the children more experienced and will listen to warnings more thoughtfully in the future, but that experience as you know comes at a cost.

But what do you do when some rotten mongrel with a personal grievance (let's call him TS) comes along and gives the kids a bottle of petrol?

[jayboy]

Did I suggest you were trying to confuse? The question I posed was a simple one - why are these old communists attending the Siam Pitak rally?I could undrstand it if they had renounced communism (which is opposed to all Siam Pitak stands for) but that is apparently not the case - they seem positively proud of it.Can you (vain hope of a sensible reply) or anybody else explain the thinking involved?

As for the communists in the redshirt camp one may like it or not like it but very misguided though they may be, there isn't an ideological inconsistency (furthering the cause of the great unwashed etc)

The Siam Pitak commies are just a puzzle.

I could venture an explanation but it's just a guess.It would go something like this.Given the history of Thailand in the last half century all sorts and conditions of men became involved on one side or another of the CPT struggle.Some quite surprising, General Surayud's father for example.After the total CPT defeat in the 1980's some hardliners sought a home in another anti democratic controlling ideology.

So, having Ms. Thida and her husband Dr. weng as UDD leaders is OK because that isn't an ideological inconsistency with hardliners seeking a new home in another anti-democratic controlling ideology.

I must admit to a certain level of confusion

I think the confusion is someone else's - a phenomenon that occurs when rather obvious facts are inconvenient to the argument and mindset.

Let's make it very simple then.I have an open mind on the subject.The question is this - why did a bunch of old communists pitch up at the Siam Pitak rally.If it is obvious to you please share the insight.

[OzMick]

I don't think there was any confusion which rally those grizzled old communists were attending.A genuinely useful response would have been to explain to the unenlightened what on earth did they think they were doing at a fascist assembly because the mental gymnastics involved are astonishing.But no we are instead treated to a repeat viewing of the tired old redshirts are communists propaganda.Yawn.

As you are the one calling PAD fascist, while at the same time pointing out a sizable chunk of the membership is far from that, it is understandable even the weird convolutions of your thought processes is having trouble justifying the original claim. Of course it must be the people attending that are confused, and not some distant observer.

Edited November 12, 2012 by OzMick